Homwardbound clarified a very great truth in post #310. Then please read post #320 which is my confirmation about this truth. This will help, I believe, for people to see that Jesus clearly connects the Old Covenant with the New Covenant, for His teachings were before the New Covenant was finalized. Henceforth He is the ‘go between’ or mediator of two. I endorse to all who read this, that a mediator is the mediator of two things to be defined and reckoned with. If it were just one, then there would be nothing to connect with, or mediate.
Is The Mosaic Law Beneficial For Those Who Have Faith?
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i liked ellie's recommendation to read the Book of Hebrews.
it's a great place to learn what the real jews were taught by other real jews about what was coming to an end and why.
the NT has a way of revealing the OT types and shadows.
ummm....Shekinah isn't in the Bible, so why is it in yours?
do you use the The Complete Jewish Bible by David H. Stern?
if so, do you agree with his rather controversial reworking of the greek phrase UNDER THE LAW-UNDER LAW
"On this scale the Jewish New Testament tends toward the dynamically equivalent end of the scale. And at certain points especially related to the issue of Jewishness it becomes militantly so. For example, in other versions the Greek phrase upo nomon is usually translated "under the law". But because this rendering has been used to buttress anti-torah Christian theology, the Jewish New Testament spells out the meaning of these two Greek words in thirteen English words: "in subjection to the system which results from perverting the Torah into legalism."
- David Stern, page xxi
thats why i agree with ellie that perhaps a reading of hebrews would help.
in an unbiased translation.
the JNT is a paraphrase...kinda like the Message
it's a great place to learn what the real jews were taught by other real jews about what was coming to an end and why.
the NT has a way of revealing the OT types and shadows.
ummm....Shekinah isn't in the Bible, so why is it in yours?
do you use the The Complete Jewish Bible by David H. Stern?
if so, do you agree with his rather controversial reworking of the greek phrase UNDER THE LAW-UNDER LAW
"On this scale the Jewish New Testament tends toward the dynamically equivalent end of the scale. And at certain points especially related to the issue of Jewishness it becomes militantly so. For example, in other versions the Greek phrase upo nomon is usually translated "under the law". But because this rendering has been used to buttress anti-torah Christian theology, the Jewish New Testament spells out the meaning of these two Greek words in thirteen English words: "in subjection to the system which results from perverting the Torah into legalism."
- David Stern, page xxi
thats why i agree with ellie that perhaps a reading of hebrews would help.
in an unbiased translation.
the JNT is a paraphrase...kinda like the Message
Yes I understand that. It is the connection between two parties and making an agreement so they are not contradicting to each other and that they can produce results, or whatever, those things that were the intent from the beginning. I just happen to believe that the God of the Old Testament had this connection intended before He said let there be light. What becomes obsolete then, is the physical part of the Temple worship through Christ Jesus. The principles and intent from the beginning have never changed otherwise God would say For I am the LORD, I change; therefore ye sons of Jacob are consumed and everything related to you.
Instead He says; Malachi 3:6 (KJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP]For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.
One also has to relate this testator/mediator with an act of reconciliation.
Instead He says; Malachi 3:6 (KJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP]For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.
One also has to relate this testator/mediator with an act of reconciliation.
i liked ellie's recommendation to read the Book of Hebrews.
it's a great place to learn what the real jews were taught by other real jews about what was coming to an end and why.
the NT has a way of revealing the OT types and shadows.
ummm....Shekinah isn't in the Bible, so why is it in yours?
do you use the The Complete Jewish Bible by David H. Stern?
if so, do you agree with his rather controversial reworking of the greek phrase UNDER THE LAW-UNDER LAW
"On this scale the Jewish New Testament tends toward the dynamically equivalent end of the scale. And at certain points especially related to the issue of Jewishness it becomes militantly so. For example, in other versions the Greek phrase upo nomon is usually translated "under the law". But because this rendering has been used to buttress anti-torah Christian theology, the Jewish New Testament spells out the meaning of these two Greek words in thirteen English words: "in subjection to the system which results from perverting the Torah into legalism."
- David Stern, page xxi
thats why i agree with ellie that perhaps a reading of hebrews would help.
in an unbiased translation.
the JNT is a paraphrase...kinda like the Message
it's a great place to learn what the real jews were taught by other real jews about what was coming to an end and why.
the NT has a way of revealing the OT types and shadows.
ummm....Shekinah isn't in the Bible, so why is it in yours?
do you use the The Complete Jewish Bible by David H. Stern?
if so, do you agree with his rather controversial reworking of the greek phrase UNDER THE LAW-UNDER LAW
"On this scale the Jewish New Testament tends toward the dynamically equivalent end of the scale. And at certain points especially related to the issue of Jewishness it becomes militantly so. For example, in other versions the Greek phrase upo nomon is usually translated "under the law". But because this rendering has been used to buttress anti-torah Christian theology, the Jewish New Testament spells out the meaning of these two Greek words in thirteen English words: "in subjection to the system which results from perverting the Torah into legalism."
- David Stern, page xxi
thats why i agree with ellie that perhaps a reading of hebrews would help.
in an unbiased translation.
the JNT is a paraphrase...kinda like the Message
Here is one of many places that the term “under the law” is mentioned.
Galatians 4:21 (KJV) is a good question
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?
Do you actually believe that this is where I want to be? Would anyone in their right mind want to be in this position after knowing the truth?
Now the Complete Jewish Bible says it this way; Galatians 4:21 Tell me, you who want to be in subjection to the system that results from perverting the Torah into legalism, don't you hear what the Torah itself says?
I think this says it better in an explanatory way. So, for the sake of conversation let’s break the KJV version down according to the Strong’s Concordance.
Desire=to take delight in, have pleasure
Under=authority, or CJB=subjection
Law=anything established, anything received by usage, a custom, a law, a command, CJB=system
Not=no, not; in direct questions expecting an affirmative answer
Hear= to attend to, consider what is or has been said
What makes this passage very clear is that legalism of the law doesn’t define the purpose of the real intention of the law according to our God. In other words, when accusations labeling us as wanting to be “under the law”, they think we want the law that has no effect according to the New Covenant. They are not considering that we are hearing the law as Paul presents the truth to the Galatians.
Further, Galatia was/is in Turkey, as we know it today. This is a gentile geographical location. If the gentiles didn’t have the writings of Moses, why would Paul tell them that they are missing the boat by obeying the law according to the tradition of the Jews instead of hearing the Spiritual intention through the Spirit of truth?
Because false teachers were telling them that they had to be circumcised to be saved. Paul instructed them that if they did get circumcised, they would be debtors to the law of Moses. Circumcision was the sign that someone had joined the old covenant, and in doing to was bound to keep all of its laws.
Give me understanding that I may keep your law and observe it with my whole heart... OK!!
The old covenant is not a thing of the past. It is entirely in effect. The only thing that has changed is that we, AS CHRISTIANS, don't work at it anymore. All of the blessings have been given to us as a gift from God. And all of the curses have been taken away in the same fashion.
That's the good news.
Ezekiel 36:23-38
[SUP]23 [/SUP]And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the Lord, saith the Lord God, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
[SUP]27 [/SUP]And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
[SUP]28 [/SUP]And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.
[SUP]29[/SUP]I will also save you from all your uncleannesses: and I will call for the corn, and will increase it, and lay no famine upon you.
[SUP]30 [/SUP]And I will multiply the fruit of the tree, and the increase of the field, that ye shall receive no more reproach of famine among the heathen.
[SUP]31[/SUP]Then shall ye remember your own evil ways, and your doings that were not good, and shall lothe yourselves in your own sight for your iniquities and for your abominations.
[SUP]32 [/SUP]Not for your sakes do I this, saith the Lord God, be it known unto you: be ashamed and confounded for your own ways, O house of Israel.
[SUP]33 [/SUP]Thus saith the Lord God; In the day that I shall have cleansed you from all your iniquities I will also cause you to dwell in the cities, and the wastes shall be builded.
[SUP]34 [/SUP]And the desolate land shall be tilled, whereas it lay desolate in the sight of all that passed by.
[SUP]35 [/SUP]And they shall say, This land that was desolate is become like the garden of Eden; and the waste and desolate and ruined cities are become fenced, and are inhabited.
[SUP]36 [/SUP]Then the heathen that are left round about you shall know that I the Lord build the ruined places, and plant that that was desolate: I the Lord have spoken it, and I will do it.
[SUP]37 [/SUP]Thus saith the Lord God; I will yet for this be enquired of by the house of Israel, to do it for them; I will increase them with men like a flock.
[SUP]38 [/SUP]As the holy flock, as the flock of Jerusalem in her solemn feasts; so shall the waste cities be filled with flocks of men: and they shall know that I am the Lord.
What were the ways of Israel that they should be ashamed of and are confounded over?
Exodus 19:8 And all the people answered together, and said, All that the Lord hath spoken we will do. And Moses returned the words of the people unto the Lord.
Opposed to the way of Israel, What was the way of Faith?
Genesis 22:8 And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.
What does the Lord Jesus say about the way of Israel that they should be ashamed of and are confounded by?
Matthew 11:28-30
[SUP]28 [/SUP]Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
[SUP]29 [/SUP]Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
[SUP]30 [/SUP]For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.
What is this new way that I am always telling the legalists and judaizers?
John 15:4-8
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.
In this way there is One and Only One that we rely on. His Name Is Jesus Christ. Know Him.
The old covenant is not a thing of the past. It is entirely in effect. The only thing that has changed is that we, AS CHRISTIANS, don't work at it anymore. All of the blessings have been given to us as a gift from God. And all of the curses have been taken away in the same fashion.
That's the good news.
Ezekiel 36:23-38
[SUP]23 [/SUP]And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the Lord, saith the Lord God, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
[SUP]27 [/SUP]And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
[SUP]28 [/SUP]And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.
[SUP]29[/SUP]I will also save you from all your uncleannesses: and I will call for the corn, and will increase it, and lay no famine upon you.
[SUP]30 [/SUP]And I will multiply the fruit of the tree, and the increase of the field, that ye shall receive no more reproach of famine among the heathen.
[SUP]31[/SUP]Then shall ye remember your own evil ways, and your doings that were not good, and shall lothe yourselves in your own sight for your iniquities and for your abominations.
[SUP]32 [/SUP]Not for your sakes do I this, saith the Lord God, be it known unto you: be ashamed and confounded for your own ways, O house of Israel.
[SUP]33 [/SUP]Thus saith the Lord God; In the day that I shall have cleansed you from all your iniquities I will also cause you to dwell in the cities, and the wastes shall be builded.
[SUP]34 [/SUP]And the desolate land shall be tilled, whereas it lay desolate in the sight of all that passed by.
[SUP]35 [/SUP]And they shall say, This land that was desolate is become like the garden of Eden; and the waste and desolate and ruined cities are become fenced, and are inhabited.
[SUP]36 [/SUP]Then the heathen that are left round about you shall know that I the Lord build the ruined places, and plant that that was desolate: I the Lord have spoken it, and I will do it.
[SUP]37 [/SUP]Thus saith the Lord God; I will yet for this be enquired of by the house of Israel, to do it for them; I will increase them with men like a flock.
[SUP]38 [/SUP]As the holy flock, as the flock of Jerusalem in her solemn feasts; so shall the waste cities be filled with flocks of men: and they shall know that I am the Lord.
What were the ways of Israel that they should be ashamed of and are confounded over?
Exodus 19:8 And all the people answered together, and said, All that the Lord hath spoken we will do. And Moses returned the words of the people unto the Lord.
Opposed to the way of Israel, What was the way of Faith?
Genesis 22:8 And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.
What does the Lord Jesus say about the way of Israel that they should be ashamed of and are confounded by?
Matthew 11:28-30
[SUP]28 [/SUP]Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
[SUP]29 [/SUP]Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
[SUP]30 [/SUP]For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.
What is this new way that I am always telling the legalists and judaizers?
John 15:4-8
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.
In this way there is One and Only One that we rely on. His Name Is Jesus Christ. Know Him.
Right, the old covenant is not a thing of the past, for while Jesus was teaching, before His death, the old covenant, or if you will, covenants, (blood, sandal, salt etc.) were still in effect. The New Covenant took effect only at the death of Christ, relating death to a last will and testament of the deceased. Thank God that Jesus rose from this death. Now we have a high Priest that will never die!
1 Corinthians 15:12-19 (KJV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?
[SUP]13 [/SUP]But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:
[SUP]14 [/SUP]And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:
[SUP]17 [/SUP]And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.
If a person confesses that Jesus Christ is the Son of God he isn’t a legalist and a judaizer just because they live differently, and worship differently than we do. Agreed?
1 John 4:14-16 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP]And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.
Now as far s judging. It works the other way also if one wants to keep Saturday as the Sabbath, and abstains from pork, I don’t label that person just because I don’t do as they do. If they confess that Jesus is the Son of God, then they are living via the New Covenant in Christ Jesus. They are not living by the doctrines of men because of their confession.
Colossians 2:16-23 (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the Sabbath days:
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,
[SUP]19 [/SUP]And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
[SUP]21 [/SUP](Touch not; taste not; handle not;
[SUP]22 [/SUP]Which all are to perish with the using after the commandments and doctrines of men?
[SUP]23 [/SUP]Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body; not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh.
1 Corinthians 15:12-19 (KJV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?
[SUP]13 [/SUP]But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:
[SUP]14 [/SUP]And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:
[SUP]17 [/SUP]And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.
If a person confesses that Jesus Christ is the Son of God he isn’t a legalist and a judaizer just because they live differently, and worship differently than we do. Agreed?
1 John 4:14-16 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP]And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.
Now as far s judging. It works the other way also if one wants to keep Saturday as the Sabbath, and abstains from pork, I don’t label that person just because I don’t do as they do. If they confess that Jesus is the Son of God, then they are living via the New Covenant in Christ Jesus. They are not living by the doctrines of men because of their confession.
Colossians 2:16-23 (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the Sabbath days:
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,
[SUP]19 [/SUP]And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
[SUP]21 [/SUP](Touch not; taste not; handle not;
[SUP]22 [/SUP]Which all are to perish with the using after the commandments and doctrines of men?
[SUP]23 [/SUP]Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body; not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh.
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This was said nearly 2000 years ago.
In calling [the new covenant] 'new', he has made the first [covenant] old; and that growing old and being decrepit is near disappearing. Hebrews 8:13
If the Mosaic covenant was old, decrepit and near disappearing nearly two millenia ago, what could it possibly be now?
Are you familiar with the Articles of Confederation? It was the first constitution of the United States that ceased to exist as a body of law in 1789 when it was replaced due to its flaws by the current US Constitution. It still exists as a document, but it has no legal authority.
Now apply this history lesson to the old and new covenants:
For if that first [covenant] was faultless, place would never have been sought for a second [covenant]. Hebrews 8:7
In calling [the new covenant] 'new', he has made the first [covenant] old; and that growing old and being decrepit is near disappearing. Hebrews 8:13
If the Mosaic covenant was old, decrepit and near disappearing nearly two millenia ago, what could it possibly be now?
Are you familiar with the Articles of Confederation? It was the first constitution of the United States that ceased to exist as a body of law in 1789 when it was replaced due to its flaws by the current US Constitution. It still exists as a document, but it has no legal authority.
Now apply this history lesson to the old and new covenants:
For if that first [covenant] was faultless, place would never have been sought for a second [covenant]. Hebrews 8:7
Grandpa – I don’t judge people because they assemble themselves on the first day of the week instead of the seventh. I don’t judge people for not celebrating Jesus’ birth and death in the month of Abib, which would be our March. And I’m sure those people would not judge us for keeping the celebration of Jesus’ birth on December 25[SUP]th[/SUP] or His resurrection at our Easter. I don’t judge people for their potluck dinners or the ones that keep Old Testament feasts and times or seasons. What I am saying Grandpa, is the Christian sect of believers have traditions that they like to keep and remember our savior by. Just because other people observe traditions that we don’t keep gives us no right to judge them with rhetoric and insinuations of unbelief.
It is apparently a real slap in the face for modern day gentiles to be told that ancient Bereans were wise enough – noble as the KJV calls them – to learn from the Jews that lived among them, when they didn’t even have the New Testament to encourage them to do so. They learned. They didn’t get boastful and self-righteous because of their new status as Gentiles loved by God, but anger grew amongst the Jewish community in Berea because at the time, Paul was teaching these Gentiles of the Messiah. How dare he prove that new “religion” by using “their” law, given by God to “their” Moses and “their” prophets. Because “their” law and “their” prophets told of the coming Messiah, Paul used it to teach the Bereans, who were wise enough to go study to see if they were being told the truth, and they acquired a reputation of being “noble”. Romans 10:19 was being lived out.
Romans 10:19 (KJV)
19 But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you.
The very next chapter of Romans tells how the Gentiles will provoke the Jews not merely to anger but to desire the relationship with the Messiah that they have. It is God’s word and it will come to pass, but it won’t happen easily because now we have Gentiles turning this situation with the Bereans and Jews near Thessalonica in Greece, around to the opposite direction. Professing Christians regularly, and habitually accuse, belittle, defame, and slander other Gentiles who dare to look at the Mosaic Law to learn from it, and negate (to nullify or cause to be ineffective) the law itself given by God. What a crying shame! It is bad enough that the adversary makes it so hard without people claiming to be Christians (but not living the life Jesus said to live), helping him destroy communication and edification among the body of Christ.
Romans 10:19 (KJV)
19 But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you.
The very next chapter of Romans tells how the Gentiles will provoke the Jews not merely to anger but to desire the relationship with the Messiah that they have. It is God’s word and it will come to pass, but it won’t happen easily because now we have Gentiles turning this situation with the Bereans and Jews near Thessalonica in Greece, around to the opposite direction. Professing Christians regularly, and habitually accuse, belittle, defame, and slander other Gentiles who dare to look at the Mosaic Law to learn from it, and negate (to nullify or cause to be ineffective) the law itself given by God. What a crying shame! It is bad enough that the adversary makes it so hard without people claiming to be Christians (but not living the life Jesus said to live), helping him destroy communication and edification among the body of Christ.
i liked ellie's recommendation to read the Book of Hebrews.
it's a great place to learn what the real jews were taught by other real jews about what was coming to an end and why.
the NT has a way of revealing the OT types and shadows.
ummm....Shekinah isn't in the Bible, so why is it in yours?
do you use the The Complete Jewish Bible by David H. Stern?
if so, do you agree with his rather controversial reworking of the greek phrase UNDER THE LAW-UNDER LAW
"On this scale the Jewish New Testament tends toward the dynamically equivalent end of the scale. And at certain points especially related to the issue of Jewishness it becomes militantly so. For example, in other versions the Greek phrase upo nomon is usually translated "under the law". But because this rendering has been used to buttress anti-torah Christian theology, the Jewish New Testament spells out the meaning of these two Greek words in thirteen English words: "in subjection to the system which results from perverting the Torah into legalism."
- David Stern, page xxi
thats why i agree with ellie that perhaps a reading of hebrews would help.
in an unbiased translation.
the JNT is a paraphrase...kinda like the Message
it's a great place to learn what the real jews were taught by other real jews about what was coming to an end and why.
the NT has a way of revealing the OT types and shadows.
ummm....Shekinah isn't in the Bible, so why is it in yours?
do you use the The Complete Jewish Bible by David H. Stern?
if so, do you agree with his rather controversial reworking of the greek phrase UNDER THE LAW-UNDER LAW
"On this scale the Jewish New Testament tends toward the dynamically equivalent end of the scale. And at certain points especially related to the issue of Jewishness it becomes militantly so. For example, in other versions the Greek phrase upo nomon is usually translated "under the law". But because this rendering has been used to buttress anti-torah Christian theology, the Jewish New Testament spells out the meaning of these two Greek words in thirteen English words: "in subjection to the system which results from perverting the Torah into legalism."
- David Stern, page xxi
thats why i agree with ellie that perhaps a reading of hebrews would help.
in an unbiased translation.
the JNT is a paraphrase...kinda like the Message
I will however, give an example of how it is a benefit to do so for the sake of anyone reading this who wants to learn and isn’t so conceited as to believe they know it all and must instruct others because of their vast knowledge. (Of course we know of no one who would admit that but we see plenty of them in the forums.)
I was told by someone once that God created evil. Immediately, I resisted the thought but questioned what made him say that. He said it was in the Bible and sure enough, when I looked it up, there it was in the KJV Isaiah 45:7:
7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
Something was NOT right with this so I looked up “evil” in that verse in the Strong’s Concordance. The description of the word there closely matches the way the CJB rendering which says,
7 “I form light, I create darkness; I make well-being, I create woe; I, ADONAI, do all these things.
I find that using the CJB often saves me lots of time not having to go to the concordance for so much the KJV and even some of the NASB words.
So, zone, regarding your statement that the CJB is a paraphrase, in all fairness you should have put the entire explanation in your post rather than make it sound like it is just a paraphrase.
I close with words from my Heavenly Father:
Romans 11:25 (CJB) For, brothers, I want you to understand this truth which God formerly concealed but has now revealed, so that you won't imagine you know more than you actually do. It is that stoniness, to a degree, has come upon Isra'el, until the Gentile world enters in its fullness;
Or if that isn’t good enough for you,
Romans 11:25 (KJV)
[SUP]25 [/SUP]For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
I don't want to confuse this any more than it already is.
The Lord Jesus said He came not to destroy but to fulfill.
The only reason why you, or I, aren't under the old covenant of performing the law ourselves is because God provided His Lamb and we believe in Him and what He does for us who come to Him.
I hope you don't think I am saying we are under law...
The Lord Jesus said He came not to destroy but to fulfill.
The only reason why you, or I, aren't under the old covenant of performing the law ourselves is because God provided His Lamb and we believe in Him and what He does for us who come to Him.
I hope you don't think I am saying we are under law...
I see an angel on each of your shoulders. The one on the right shoulder is dressed in white and has wings and a halo above it's head; the one on the left is red and has a pointed tail, horns, and a pitch fork. The red one is telling you that Professing Christians on this board regularly, and habitually accuse, belittle, defame, and slander those who dare to look at the Mosaic Law to learn from it, and negate (to nullify or cause to be ineffective) the law itself given by God.
S
So now you're accusing people of demon possession? Better take a hard look at yourself. When you speak against the Laws of God and the people who preach what Christ preached, for His people to keep His Laws if they love Him and not teach that even the least of them should be ignored, then you're the anti-Christ preaching a doctrine of demons, because again, you're teaching the exact opposite of what Christ told us to do. Apparently your father isn't Christ's father like the Pharisees? The accuser is who? The devil Himself.
