Mark of the beast is sunday laws.

[Laodicea]

Good stuff zone. This is older and lengthy but it's worth watching all the way through. The John Ankerberg Show 'Seventh Day Adventism: Who Is Telling the Truth?':

[video=youtube;JM6lmUCTpDo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JM6lmUCTpDo&feature=share&list=UUG8z9cSzYA cl3dZJM2s1z3w[/video]

Part 2: 2 of 5 - Seventh-day Adventism - Who's Telling the Truth - The John Ankerberg Show - YouTube
Part 3: 3 of 5 - Seventh-day Adventism - Who's Telling the Truth - The John Ankerberg Show - YouTube
Part 4: 4 of 5 - Seventh-day Adventism - Who's Telling the Truth - The John Ankerberg Show - YouTube
Part 5: 5 of 5 - Seventh-day Adventism - Who's Telling the Truth - The John Ankerberg Show - YouTube

Yes more of the same lets put up critical websites rather than Bible. It has become very boring.

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

Acts 10?

Act 10:10 And he became very hungry, and would have eaten: but while they made ready, he fell into a trance,
Act 10:11 And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending unto him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth:
Act 10:12 Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air.
Act 10:13 And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat.
Act 10:14 But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.
Act 10:15 And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.
Act 10:16 This was done thrice: and the vessel was received up again into heaven.
Act 10:17 Now while Peter doubted in himself what this vision which he had seen should mean, behold, the men which were sent from Cornelius had made enquiry for Simon's house, and stood before the gate,

Hmmm, seems you are far more spiritually in tune than the APOSTLE PETER! One thing he did not do is run right down and order up a surf and turf with a shrimp cocktail appetizer, he doubted in himself what it should mean. And what was the revealed meaning? Stick anything you can catch in your mouth? NOPE!

Act 10:17 Now while Peter doubted in himself what this vision which he had seen should mean, behold, the men which were sent from Cornelius had made enquiry for Simon's house, and stood before the gate,
Act 10:18 And called, and asked whether Simon, which was surnamed Peter, were lodged there.
Act 10:19 While Peter thought on the vision, the Spirit said unto him, Behold, three men seek thee.

It was NOT apparent to Peter this was the cleansing of unclean meats...

Act 10:20 Arise therefore, and get thee down, and go with them, doubting nothing: for I have sent them.
Act 10:21 Then Peter went down to the men which were sent unto him from Cornelius; and said, Behold, I am he whom ye seek: what is the cause wherefore ye are come?

And what was the revealed meaning?

Act 10:28 And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.

And here is the true understanding...

Act 11:1 And the apostles and brethren that were in Judaea heard that the Gentiles had also received the word of God.
Act 11:2 And when Peter was come up to Jerusalem, they that were of the circumcision contended with him,
Act 11:3 Saying, Thou wentest in to men uncircumcised, and didst eat with them.
Act 11:4 But Peter rehearsed the matter from the beginning, and expounded it by order unto them, saying,
Act 11:5 I was in the city of Joppa praying: and in a trance I saw a vision, A certain vessel descend, as it had been a great sheet, let down from heaven by four corners; and it came even to me:
Act 11:6 Upon the which when I had fastened mine eyes, I considered, and saw fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air.
Act 11:7 And I heard a voice saying unto me, Arise, Peter; slay and eat.
Act 11:8 But I said, Not so, Lord: for nothing common or unclean hath at any time entered into my mouth.
Act 11:9 But the voice answered me again from heaven, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.
Act 11:10 And this was done three times: and all were drawn up again into heaven.
Act 11:11 And, behold, immediately there were three men already come unto the house where I was, sent from Caesarea unto me.
Act 11:12 And the Spirit bade me go with them, nothing doubting. Moreover these six brethren accompanied me, and we entered into the man's house:
Act 11:13 And he shewed us how he had seen an angel in his house, which stood and said unto him, Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon, whose surname is Peter;
Act 11:14 Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.
Act 11:15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.
Act 11:16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.
Act 11:17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?
Act 11:18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

the fact that God was using the vision to teach peter not to consider the gentiles unclean does not change the fact that God -told- peter to eat 'unclean' food...

God would never tell anyone to sin...not in a symbolic vision or in real life...

so if God told peter to eat 'unclean' food...then it means eating the 'unclean' food would not have been a sin...

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

Let no man judge you in meat or drink? Hmmm, how about the Word of God?

1Ti 4:4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
1Ti 4:5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

And where in the Word of God do we find meat sanctified?

Lev 11 and Deut 14!

following the basic rules of english...

what is the antecedent for the 'it' that is sanctified in verse five?

the antecedent is 'every creature of God'

so paul is saying -every- creature of God is sanctified by the word of God and prayer...not just 'every creature listed in leviticus 11 and deuteronomy 14'

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

And Mat 15:11 is pulled completely out of context. Here is what it really says...

Mat 15:1 Then came to Jesus scribes and Pharisees, which were of Jerusalem, saying,
Mat 15:2 Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread.
Mat 15:3 But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?
Mat 15:4 For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.
Mat 15:5 But ye say, Whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me;
Mat 15:6 And honour not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition.
Mat 15:7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
Mat 15:8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
Mat 15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
Mat 15:10 And he called the multitude, and said unto them, Hear, and understand:
Mat 15:11 Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.

The subject is ceremonial washings that were not commanded by God, but were the traditions of the elders...

Mar 7:1 Then came together unto him the Pharisees, and certain of the scribes, which came from Jerusalem.
Mar 7:2 And when they saw some of his disciples eat bread with defiled, that is to say, with unwashen, hands, they found fault.
Mar 7:3 For the Pharisees, and all the Jews, except they wash their hands oft, eat not, holding the tradition of the elders.
Mar 7:4 And when they come from the market, except they wash, they eat not. And many other things there be, which they have received to hold, as the washing of cups, and pots, brasen vessels, and of tables.
Mar 7:5 Then the Pharisees and scribes asked him, Why walk not thy disciples according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashen hands?
Mar 7:6 He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.
Mar 7:7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
Mar 7:8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
Mar 7:9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
Mar 7:10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
Mar 7:11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
Mar 7:12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
Mar 7:13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

Now when we read the complete passage, we see that the Pharisees considered BREAD (not meat) defiled if it is touched by hands that were not ceremonial washed. This is not a command but a tradition of the elders. So now with this understanding, let's continue...

Mar 7:14 And when he had called all the people unto him, he said unto them, Hearken unto me every one of you, and understand:
Mar 7:15 There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him: but the things which come out of him, those are they that defile the man.

A piece of bread that is touched by hands that were not ceremonial washed according to tradition, could not defile a man. The subject here is ceremonial wahsing. Meat is not even in the conversation, bread is.

What can defile a man is pulling a verse out of context to twist the Word of God into saying something it does not say.

jesus was not just talking about the hand washing rituals that the pharisees were asking him about...he was getting to the heart of the issue...

jesus was known for doing that...he often didn't directly answer a leading question from the pharisees...he would instead challenge the core foundation of their view...

and that is exactly what jesus was doing in this case...they asked him a legal question about hand washing...and jesus issued a much broader ruling...you cannot be defiled by eating...

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

Because you like pig so much,, you justify your appetite, even though you can give no reason why God would relax His Dietary laws.

maybe for the same reason he relaxed his law against men trimming the edges of their beards?

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

I've caught them running scripts together like that from flow charts their deceived leaders had complied for them. After I refuted them with a clear exegesis of scripture in context with all of scripture and history, they simply kept running the script to the end (being refuted all of the way) as if we weren't even having a discussion and then ACTUALLY RESTARTED THE EXACT SAME SCRIPT as if they were a computer robot when they got to the end as we had never even had a discussion!

yes i have seen adventists do that in the chat rooms...

and we are seeing a form of that here...even after pages and pages of us posting scripture...the adventists claim that we never post scripture...as if most of this thread never even took place...

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

Read the Bible for yourself. It is right there. BTW it was a vision that Peter had it was not literal. Do you know what a vision is? Peter later finds out the meaning to the vision and gives the meaning in the same chapter.
Acts 10:15 KJV
(15) And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.
Acts 10:28 KJV
(28) And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.

How much easier do you want it? When did God show Peter not to call any man common or unclean? If you think verse 28 has nothing to do with verse 15 then show me from the Bible when God showed him.

i already said this to someone else but it bears repeating...

God doesn't tell people to sin...not in real life -or- in non literal visions...

if God commanded peter to eat 'unclean' food...then eating the 'unclean' food couldn't have been a sin...

if it was a sin then peter would have been -right- to refuse in his vision...and God would have been -wrong- to rebuke his refusal...

by the way...you seem to be missing the fact that one of the biggest reasons gentiles were considered 'unclean' was -because- they at 'unclean' food...so the issue of dietary laws is much more closely related to the meaning of this vision than you realize...

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

What confounds me the most, Laodicea, is that people that defend the Sunday worship belief always talk about what Paul said. Even if Paul had actually tried to change a law of God, what in the world gives anybody the outrageously wild idea that Paul had authority over Jesus Christ-- who IS GOD?? What about what Christ said specifically about these laws never passing away, and that any man that broke them, etc. etc. could possibly be misunderstood? He said what He said! Nothing Paul or any other disciple might ever have said could have changed one word of what Jesus Christ Himself said!

P.S. Kind of looks like the Ark of the Covenant isn't anywhere around here anymore. Hm. Just realized that.

we don't believe paul has any authority over jesus christ...we believe that paul was -in agreement- with christ who -also- never told anyone to observe the sabbath and even broke the sabbath himself...

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

Actually lately I've read quite a bit about the 7th day Adventists. You're wrong. They (I mean the Millerites) actually repented as in fasted and prayed and repented of misinterpreting scriptures to the point they actually thought Christ would return on a specific day. That they later thought this date was relevant to something else had nothing to do with their repenting for misinterpreting scriptures. See, you say they made a prophecy, which is not true as they based their belief on an interpretation of scripture that was clearly incorrect. But your claim that it was a prophecy is untrue. Does that make you a cult member? Does this mean God has turned you over to the spirit of confusion because I have not seen you yet repent of claiming they prophecied when they didn't?

I guess I should assume this of you then. Since you've made a false claim about the Millerites (which weren't even 7th day Adventists) and you clearly do not repent, I think I'll make the claim that God has clearly turned you over to the spirit of confusion which is why you believe in a Sunday law and have thrown away entirely the sabbath law of God written by the finger of God Himself. Yeah! I think this works for me. So I'll just ignore anything else you have to say.

Should I also assume you're unsaved?

the millerites who became adventists -never- repented from the sin of false prophecy...to this day they claim that miller was correct in claiming that 1844 was a day when something of eschatological significance would happen...specifically they now claim that 1844 was when jesus entered the heavenly sanctuary to cleanse it...a belief that contradicts scripture even more blatantly than miller's prediction...

they didn't repent...they just came up with -another version- of the same false prophecy...

the millerites who actually -did- repent abandoned the 1844 doctrine entirely...they 'came out of babylon' as it were and went back to their old churches where the gospel was preached without false prophecy...

we know that God judges unrepentant sin and we know that a spirit of confusion is one possible judgment God can send...

and just look at what is going on in this thread...there are adventists violating basic logic and basic grammar in their interpretations of scripture...in a pattern over and over...and it obviously isn't just a reading comprehension issue...

the spirit of confusion is the most reasonable explanation...

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

He showed you the ensuing scriptures where it is stated that the vision was about intermingling with non-Jews. It says this specifically. This is the problem with taking scriptures out of context. Gotta read the whole thing. Then you need to look at what happened afterward. Peter went and preached to gentiles. Scriptures say nowhere that he started eating bacon and shrimp.

'context' should never be misused to make a plain scripture mean something other than what it plainly means...next you will be using the 'context' of 'jesus wept' to claim that jesus didn't actually weep...

 

[vic1980]

I trully try reading the thread, it seem it has been derailed quite a few times ok hope this helps

Instead of fighting one another on sabbath & sunday worship, or mark of the beast . Why don't we all calm down and wait it out ? I belive every Christian, every true beliver in Christ will see it and not except it. I wonder what our borther and sister in Christ thoughts where there views ,about the book of revelation and the mark of the beast in the 1600. Did they have the same outlook and quarreling as we have in the year 2013? Scripture clearly presents to us all that we will be unable to buy our daily Bread "Food" and other necessities.

The Mark of the Beast
16And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: 17And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. 18Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

Think about it for a moment , let it sink in and God bless

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

Your opinion period.

basic logic is not just my opinion...

i listed three characteristics of the rest spoken of in hebrews 4...those characteristics do not match the saturday sabbath...

therefore basic logic says that the rest spoken of in hebrews 4 is not the saturday sabbath...

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

Matthew 12:14

3But He said to them, "Have you not read what David did when he became hungry, he and his companions, 4how he entered the house of God, and they ate the consecrated bread, which was not lawful for him to eat nor for those with him, but for the priests alone? 5"Or have you not read in the Law, that on the Sabbath the priests in the temple break the Sabbath and are innocent?

Isn't Jesus our High Priest?

yes and scripture also says that -we- are priests...therefore as priests we have the same sabbath exemption...

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

you gonna keep on eating pork, you will be consumed at the great day of God.

this is the kind of comment that makes it obvious that you don't believe in the bible's teaching of salvation by grace through faith...

eating pork does not condemn anyone...refusing to believe in jesus christ is what condemns...

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

The issue regarding the mark of the beast will be over worship and the commandments of God. Worship is mentioned 8 times in Revelation 13 & 14. The commandments of God in the third angels message is contrasted with the beast and the image and the mark

this is incorrect...

the bible clearly says that anyone who receives the mark of the beast is condemned...

revelation 14:9-11..."Then another angel, a third one, followed them, saying with a loud voice, 'If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand, he also will drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is mixed in full strength in the cup of His anger; and he will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.'"

there are no exceptions given...nothing that says 'everyone who receives the mark of the beast except a few'

the bible also clearly says that there is -only one- unforgiveable sin...

mark 3:28-29..."Truly I say to you, all sins shall be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they utter; but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin"

so using basic logic...

receiving the mark of the beast = unforgivable sin
-only- blasphemy against the holy spirit = unforgivable sin
therefore...receiving the mark of the beast = blasphemy against the holy spirit

so the mark of the beast has nothing to do with 'sunday laws'...it is about blaspheming the holy spirit...

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

I've just seen so many accusations on this site made against different denominations since I joined, and the main one seems to be the 7th day Adventists, and it mainly seems to be about the sabbath issue.

of course debates with adventists are going to be about the sabbath issue...

for one thing it is the main issue because it is the main doctrine they try to force on everyone else...even going so far as to claim that you will be receiving the mark of the beast if you disagree with their view on the sabbath...

and more importantly it is an issue because it is their doctrine on the sabbath that undermines the gospel and denies salvation by grace through faith in christ...which could reasonably be called the core teaching of christianity...

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

YBut from what I've read on this site as well as in other places, they believe in God, the Son, and the Holy Ghost; they believe we're saved by grace and not works, though works prove our faith. So in most every important way, they believe what Christ said was necessary for salvation.

they -claim- to believe in salvation by grace and not works...but their doctrines on the sabbath and the mark of the beast make it clear that they don't really believe that...

if salvation is by grace through faith...then it is not possible to forfeit your salvation by committing a 'sin' such as not observing saturday as sabbath...

if 'sunday keeping' really was the mark of the beast that will forfeit your salvation...then your salvation depends on a -work-...namely the work of sabbath keeping...

and that is -not- salvation by grace through faith in christ...that is salvation by works...

and that means the adventists preach another gospel...

galatians 1:8..."But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed!"

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

I say your church lacks a gift..... the Gift of Prophecy,,,for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy!

We Adventists have a Lord that doesn't leave us in the dark wondering. We know what is to come. We stand and warn you. God will do nothing, unless He first tells His prophets!

the 'gift of prophecy' is adventist code for 'ellen white'

so we finally get down to the real point...the difference between our churches and your cult is that you have ellen white...

now let's not have any more adventists lying and claiming that they don't follow ellen white...

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

The true heresy represented here was exacted and is continually exacted by those who took and continue to take upon themselves the authority to change the Holy Law of God written by God's own hand. You defend those that originally did so and continue to do so, but the truth remains the truth all the same. As Christ Himself said, it will endure forever. You are nothing more than a follower of the doctrines of men who have done exactly what you're doing for many long centuries now, applying and reapplying their wicked expertise to the twisting of scriptures for the purpose of smoothing over their crimes against God's truth.

Again, the true heresy exacted here is represented by those who continually and doggedly defend their position that any man ever has, or ever did have the right to change any law of God, be that Paul the disciple, Constantine, or anyone else on earth. You blasphemy Christ's own words when you curse those that insist on keeping His commandments as Christ Himself instructed us to do if we love Him. In so doing, you curse yourself.

nobody here has claimed that anyone has the right to change God's law...nobody here has claimed that law was changed by paul or constantine or any other human...

what we believe is that -God himself- has freed his church from the sabbath requirement...paul and constantine and everyone else are only -acknowledging- what God has done...

now since sabbath keepers tend to -ignore- things the first few times they are posted...i am going to repeat...

-nobody- here has claimed that anyone has the right to change God's law!

so what we have is -you- giving a -false testimony- against your neighbors...

i seem to remember God giving a -law- against that...

so it is -you- who are breaking God's law...even as you pretend to be more obedient to God's law than the rest of us...

and here is scripture showing what christ says about people like -you-...

matthew 23:13..."But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, because you shut off the kingdom of heaven from people; for you do not enter in yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in."

matthew 23:15..."Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, because you travel around on sea and land to make one proselyte; and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves."

matthew 23:23-24..."Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint and dill and cummin, and have neglected the weightier provisions of the law: justice and mercy and faithfulness; but these are the things you should have done without neglecting the others. You blind guides, who strain out a gnat and swallow a camel!"

matthew 23:27-28..."Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs which on the outside appear beautiful, but inside they are full of dead men’s bones and all uncleanness. So you, too, outwardly appear righteous to men, but inwardly you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness."

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

Does it say that Paul meeting with the other disciples on the first day of the week has anything whatsoever to do with keeping the sabbath?

and yet people in this thread have claimed that paul preaching in the synagogues on the sabbath has something to do with keeping the sabbath...