Malachi 4:5-6, fulfilled by John the Baptist or not?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
May 18, 2010
931
15
18
#21
neither, and if I were you pay close attention to trib, as it's not clearly stated in scripture as a 7 year period, but Jesus comes just after the rapture in my view. which the rapture is neither pre- or mid- maybe post trib,.. we don't all agree on which, but the coming of the Lord is clear to be after the great tribulation (which some have said has already began), because, it doesn't make sense Jesus would come destroy everybody (all the wicked left after the rapture) and then there's this tribulation period yet to happen.
 
Aug 5, 2013
624
2
0
#22
Hi Starcrash,

In reference to John 1:21, the only thing that we can do is to compare other instances where the "Spirit of Elijah" is shown in the scriptures.

After Elisha received the double anointing from Elijah, he didn't ever claim to be Elijah himself. However, the people recognized that he had that same anointing.
That's not quite a fair comparison, as there are no verses where Elisha specifically refutes being Elijah... as you correctly worded it, he simply "didn't ever claim to be Elijah". But why would he? "Having the same anointing" made him Elijah's successor, not Elijah himself. You are aware that they shared this planet at the same time, right?

I don't think anyone claiming that Elijah came back as someone else has thought through the process. Are you guys claiming that John the Baptist's soul shared a body with Elijah's? Or are you claiming that Elijah's soul returned and he was given a new name but seemingly no memory of his past (after all, he didn't return to his former role as prophet and his answer in John 1:21 was still a thing that happened)? Is there an event to compare this to, or are we just assuming that such a thing could even happen?

I like the bible citation, Bookends (Matthew 17) but you've still got to square it with John 1:21, otherwise you're just cherry-picking (using scripture that supports your view while denying or ignoring parts that don't).
 

starfield

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2009
3,393
58
48
#23
Mal 3:1 Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts.

Christ did not come suddenly to His Temple in 27 AD.

Mal 3:2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:

Obviously not the first coming, this occurs at the second coming...

2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

Mal 3:3 And he shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver: and he shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the LORD an offering in righteousness.
Mal 3:4 Then shall the offering of Judah and Jerusalem be pleasant unto the LORD, as in the days of old, and as in former years.

Now read Ezek 40 through 48 for a picture of the Temple in the Millenium.

Mal 3 is the Elijah to come who will prepare the way for the second coming.

Josh's correct. John the Baptist was sent to prepare the way for Christ’s first coming by preaching the gospel of the kingdom to Israel. Compare Malachi 3:1 with Matthew 3:1-3; 11:7-10:
Malachi 3:1 Behold, I will send my messenger [John the Baptist], and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant [Jesus Christ], whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts.

Matthew 3:1-3
1. In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea,
2. And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
3. For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.

Matthew 11:7-10
7. And as they departed, Jesus began to say unto the multitudes concerning John, What went ye out into the wilderness to see? A reed shaken with the wind?
8. But what went ye out for to see? A man clothed in soft raiment? behold, they that wear soft clothing are in kings' houses.
9. But what went ye out for to see? A prophet? yea, I say unto you, and more than a prophet.
10. For this is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.

I believe it’s also John the Baptist who fulfilled Malachi 4:5-6 prophecy. Compare it with Luke 1:13-17:
Malachi 4:5-6
5. Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:
6.
And he [John the Baptist] shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

Luke 1:13-17
13. But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John.
14. And thou shalt have joy and gladness; and many shall rejoice at his birth.
15. For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.

16. And many of the children of Israel shall he turn to the Lord their God.
17. And he [John the Baptist] shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
11,365
186
63
#25
Josh's correct. John the Baptist was sent to prepare the way for Christ’s first coming by preaching the gospel of the kingdom to Israel. Compare Malachi 3:1 with Matthew 3:1-3; 11:7-10:Malachi 3:1 Behold, I will send my messenger [John the Baptist], and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant [Jesus Christ], whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts. Matthew 3:1-31. In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea, 2. And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. 3. For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight. Matthew 11:7-107. And as they departed, Jesus began to say unto the multitudes concerning John, What went ye out into the wilderness to see? A reed shaken with the wind? 8. But what went ye out for to see? A man clothed in soft raiment? behold, they that wear soft clothing are in kings' houses. 9. But what went ye out for to see? A prophet? yea, I say unto you, and more than a prophet. 10. For this is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee. I believe it’s also John the Baptist who fulfilled Malachi 4:5-6 prophecy. Compare it with Luke 1:13-17:Malachi 4:5-65. Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD: 6. And he [John the Baptist] shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse. Luke 1:13-1713. But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John. 14. And thou shalt have joy and gladness; and many shall rejoice at his birth. 15. For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb. 16. And many of the children of Israel shall he turn to the Lord their God. 17. And he [John the Baptist] shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.
OK, show me the fulfillment of this...

Mal 3:2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:

The people not only abided the day of His coming the first time, they did whatever they wanted with Him...

Mat 17:12 But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.

this is clearly the second coming.
 
R

reject-tech

Guest
#26
This prophecy, and all of them, repeat over and over, in the world every so often, and in the lifetime of every believer.
A wheel within a wheel.

[SUP]15 [/SUP]Now as I beheld the living creatures, behold one wheel upon the earth by the living creatures, with his four faces.

[SUP]16 [/SUP]The appearance of the wheels and their work was like unto the colour of a beryl: and they four had one likeness: and their appearance and their work was as it were a wheel in the middle of a wheel.

wheelinwheel.JPG
 
J

josh123

Guest
#27
Can you back this up with scripture please? And demonstrate how this was fulfilled 50-60 yrs ago?
the spirit of Elijah was in john the baptist, spirit of elijah was also passed down on elisha 9 And it came to pass, when they were gone over, that Elijah said unto Elisha, Ask what I shall do for thee, before I be taken away from thee. And Elisha said, I pray thee, let a double portion of thy spirit be upon me.10 And he said, Thou hast asked a hard thing: nevertheless, if thou see me when I am taken from thee, it shall be so unto thee; but if not, it shall not be so.
11 And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.
12 And Elisha saw it, and he cried, My father, my father, the chariot of Israel, and the horsemen thereof. And he saw him no more: and he took hold of his own clothes, and rent them in two pieces.
13He took up also the mantle of Elijah that fell from him, and went back, and stood by the bank of Jordan;



This shows that malachi 3 was fullfilled by john the baptist 10 And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come?

11 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.
12 But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.
13 Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.

Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the Lord of hosts.


and people saying that malachi 4 was fullfiled by jesus how can jesus be elijah? did he bring the hearts back to the children? no.. he came to die for our sins not bring back the heart of the fathers to the children, lets look at the prophecy of malachi 4


5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord:
6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

now this prophet will come to return the faith of the fathers back to the children because the end is almost here and they have alot of denominations and made made doctrines so this prophet came back and rebuked them all and spoke the word of god that was first preached and the bride recognize the message and the seed was enlighten from this message millions recognize and this was fulfilled 50-60 years ago still have tapes of all the messages online, he was also the 7th angel that revealed the mystery of god
 
J

josh123

Guest
#28
why are prepare comparing malachi 3 with 4? it is 2 prophecy being explained at 2 different location john the baptist came to prepare the way for jesus and he fulfilled that and someone else came to fulfill malachi 4 to bring the hearts of the fathers back to the children
 

ChosenbyHim

Senior Member
Sep 19, 2011
3,343
114
63
#29
Has the prophecy of Malachi 4:5-6 been fulfilled? Will there be a literal advent of Elijah in the future before the day of the Lord or was John the Baptist the fulfilment?

Malachi 4:1-6
1. For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.

2. But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.
3. And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts.
4. Remember ye the law of Moses my servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, with the statutes and judgments.
5. Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:
6. And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

Discuss!
:)
About time you started a thread! :)

I believe it will be a future event.


4 Remember ye the law of Moses my servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, with the statutes and judgments.
5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord:
6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse. - Malachai 4:4-6 (KJB)


The two witnesses in Revelation I believe will be Moses and Elijah. Notice in Malachai 4:4-5, you have both the Law (Moses) and the Prophets (Elijah).

It will definitely be a literal event where Elijah and Moses are confirming the New Testament with Signs and wonders to the Jews in the Time of Jacob's trouble. Premillennialism is the only way :)

And also, God said that He would send Elijah the prophet Before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD. This is defintley a referrence to the Second Coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. So it will indeed be a future and literal event.

Great thread Starfield! Kudos :)
 
J

josh123

Guest
#30
About time you started a thread! :)

I believe it will be a future event.


4 Remember ye the law of Moses my servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, with the statutes and judgments.
5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord:
6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse. - Malachai 4:4-6 (KJB)


The two witnesses in Revelation I believe will be Moses and Elijah. Notice in Malachai 4:4-5, you have both the Law (Moses) and the Prophets (Elijah).

It will definitely be a literal event where Elijah and Moses are confirming the New Testament with Signs and wonders to the Jews in the Time of Jacob's trouble. Premillennialism is the only way :)

And also, God said that He would send Elijah the prophet Before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD. This is defintley a referrence to the Second Coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. So it will indeed be a future and literal event.

Great thread Starfield! Kudos :)
Already came to pass.. look at the time we living in pretty much at the end time this prophecy was fulfilled a while ago if you desire to know this i suggest you do some research to see who exactly fulfilled this prophecy and bring back the heart of the fathers to the children, this person must also have the fruits of elijah because the spirit doesn't change he will do the same thing he did at the start and you are right the 2 prophets will be elijah and moses at the end
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
11,365
186
63
#31
Already came to pass.. look at the time we living in pretty much at the end time this prophecy was fulfilled a while ago if you desire to know this i suggest you do some research to see who exactly fulfilled this prophecy and bring back the heart of the fathers to the children, this person must also have the fruits of elijah because the spirit doesn't change he will do the same thing he did at the start and you are right the 2 prophets will be elijah and moses at the end
?????????????
 
Aug 5, 2013
624
2
0
#32
This prophecy, and all of them, repeat over and over, in the world every so often, and in the lifetime of every believer.
A wheel within a wheel.
I like this answer. You may be right -- it may be a false dichotomy; it's entirely possible that Elijah was returning twice, once in the form of John and again in the end times. But... that still requires a refutation of the evidence in John 1:21 in which John the Baptist denies being Elijah (because that goes against half of the assertion that Elijah made/is making two visits).
 

starfield

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2009
3,393
58
48
#33
About time you started a thread! :)

I believe it will be a future event.


4 Remember ye the law of Moses my servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, with the statutes and judgments.
5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord:
6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse. - Malachai 4:4-6 (KJB)


The two witnesses in Revelation I believe will be Moses and Elijah. Notice in Malachai 4:4-5, you have both the Law (Moses) and the Prophets (Elijah).

It will definitely be a literal event where Elijah and Moses are confirming the New Testament with Signs and wonders to the Jews in the Time of Jacob's trouble. Premillennialism is the only way :)

And also, God said that He would send Elijah the prophet Before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD. This is defintley a referrence to the Second Coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. So it will indeed be a future and literal event.

Great thread Starfield! Kudos :)
In Luke 1:17, the angel said that John would come in the spirit and power of Elijah to turn the hearts of the fathers to their children which has been fulfilled, so how could Elijah be one of the two witnesses? Or are you positing dual fulfillment?

 
J

josh123

Guest
#34
In Luke 1:17, the angel said that John would come in the spirit and power of Elijah to turn the hearts of the fathers to their children which has been fulfilled, so how could Elijah be one of the two witnesses? Or are you positing dual fulfillment?

notice what it said 17 And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.


t it this is the prophecy about john preparing the way for the lord being fulfilled but notice the prophecy in malachi 4 5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord:6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.


john was sent to prepare the way in malachi 4 elijah returns to bring back the hearts of the children to their fathers to bring in the predestinated seeds to enlighten them with the word of god
 
J

josh123

Guest
#35
In Luke 1:17, the angel said that John would come in the spirit and power of Elijah to turn the hearts of the fathers to their children which has been fulfilled, so how could Elijah be one of the two witnesses? Or are you positing dual fulfillment?

and the spirit of elijah will return again with moses after the church is gone to open up the eyes of israel, he is talking about the 2 end time prophets that will return
 

ChosenbyHim

Senior Member
Sep 19, 2011
3,343
114
63
#36
In Luke 1:17, the angel said that John would come in the spirit and power of Elijah to turn the hearts of the fathers to their children which has been fulfilled, so how could Elijah be one of the two witnesses? Or are you positing dual fulfillment?


Well I suppose you could call it that. And I see where you are coming from though with your answer previously.

And by the way, you did a excellent job of comparing Scripture with Scripture.


I believe that the Prophecy in Malachi 4:4-6 is a prophecy that applies to both the first and second comings of Jesus Christ. Because again note that in Malachi 4:5:


5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord:

The reference to the great and dreadful day of the LORD is clearly a reference to the Second Coming of the Lord Jesus Christ at the end of the time of Jacob's trouble.


The Second Coming of Jesus Christ will indeed be a dreadful day.


So again, I believe that the Prophecy about Elijah the prophet in Malachi 4 applies to both the first and second coming of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Also note too that when the Jews asked John the Baptist if he was Elijah, he confessed that he wasn't.



19 And this is the record of John, when the Jews sent priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, Who art thou?
20 And he confessed, and denied not; but confessed, I am not the Christ.
21 And they asked him, What then? Art thou Elias? And he saith, I am not. Art thou that prophet? And he answered, No.
22 Then said they unto him, Who art thou? that we may give an answer to them that sent us. What sayest thou of thyself?
23 He said, I am the voice of one crying in the wilderness, Make straight the way of the Lord, as said the prophet Esaias.
- John 1:19-23 (KJV)



Another thing Starfield to consider is that the sings and wonders that are mentioned being done in Revelation by the two witnesses line up exactly with the sings and wonders done by Moses and Elijah.


21 And Elijah came unto all the people, and said, How long halt ye between two opinions? if the Lord be God, follow him: but if Baal, then follow him. And the people answered him not a word.
22 Then said Elijah unto the people, I, even I only, remain a prophet of the Lord; but Baal's prophets are four hundred and fifty men.
23 Let them therefore give us two bullocks; and let them choose one bullock for themselves, and cut it in pieces, and lay it on wood, and put no fire under: and I will dress the other bullock, and lay it on wood, and put no fire under:
24 And call ye on the name of your gods, and I will call on the name of the Lord: and the God that answereth by fire, let him be God. And all the people answered and said, It is well spoken.
25 And Elijah said unto the prophets of Baal, Choose you one bullock for yourselves, and dress it first; for ye are many; and call on the name of your gods, but put no fire under.
26 And they took the bullock which was given them, and they dressed it, and called on the name of Baal from morning even until noon, saying, O Baal, hear us. But there was no voice, nor any that answered. And they leaped upon the altar which was made.
27 And it came to pass at noon, that Elijah mocked them, and said, Cry aloud: for he is a god; either he is talking, or he is pursuing, or he is in a journey, or peradventure he sleepeth, and must be awaked.
28 And they cried aloud, and cut themselves after their manner with knives and lancets, till the blood gushed out upon them.
29 And it came to pass, when midday was past, and they prophesied until the time of the offering of the evening sacrifice, that there was neither voice, nor any to answer, nor any that regarded.
30 And Elijah said unto all the people, Come near unto me. And all the people came near unto him. And he repaired the altar of the Lord that was broken down.
31 And Elijah took twelve stones, according to the number of the tribes of the sons of Jacob, unto whom the word of the Lord came, saying, Israel shall be thy name:
32 And with the stones he built an altar in the name of the Lord: and he made a trench about the altar, as great as would contain two measures of seed.
33 And he put the wood in order, and cut the bullock in pieces, and laid him on the wood, and said, Fill four barrels with water, and pour it on the burnt sacrifice, and on the wood.
34 And he said, Do it the second time. And they did it the second time. And he said, Do it the third time. And they did it the third time.
35 And the water ran round about the altar; and he filled the trench also with water.
36 And it came to pass at the time of the offering of the evening sacrifice, that Elijah the prophet came near, and said,Lord God of Abraham, Isaac, and of Israel, let it be known this day that thou art God in Israel, and that I am thy servant, and that I have done all these things at thy word.
37 Hear me, O Lord, hear me, that this people may know that thou art the Lord God, and that thou hast turned their heart back again.
38 Then the fire of the Lord fell, and consumed the burnt sacrifice, and the wood, and the stones, and the dust, and licked up the water that was in the trench.
39 And when all the people saw it, they fell on their faces: and they said, The Lord, he is the God; the Lord, he is the God.
40 And Elijah said unto them, Take the prophets of Baal; let not one of them escape. And they took them: and Elijah brought them down to the brook Kishon, and slew them there. - 1 Kings 18:21-40 (KJV)


10 And Elijah answered and said to the captain of fifty, If I be a man of God, then let fire come down from heaven, and consume thee and thy fifty. And there came down fire from heaven, and consumed him and his fifty. - 2 Kings 1:10 (KJV)



3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed. - Revelation 11:3-5 (KJV)


As for Moses, we also see a parallel between Exodus and Revelation of the signs and wonders performed:



19 And the Lord spake unto Moses, Say unto Aaron, Take thy rod, and stretch out thine hand upon the waters of Egypt, upon their streams, upon their rivers, and upon their ponds, and upon all their pools of water, that they may become blood; and that there may be blood throughout all the land of Egypt, both in vessels of wood, and in vessels of stone.
20 And Moses and Aaron did so, as the Lord commanded; and he lifted up the rod, and smote the waters that were in the river, in the sight of Pharaoh, and in the sight of his servants; and all the waters that were in the river were turned to blood. - Exodus 7:19-20 (KJV)




13 And the Lord said unto Moses, Rise up early in the morning, and stand before Pharaoh, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord God of the Hebrews, Let my people go, that they may serve me.
14 For I will at this time send all my plagues upon thine heart, and upon thy servants, and upon thy people; that thou mayest know that there is none like me in all the earth.
15 For now I will stretch out my hand, that I may smite thee and thy people with pestilence; and thou shalt be cut off from the earth.
16 And in very deed for this cause have I raised thee up, for to shew in thee my power; and that my name may be declared throughout all the earth. - Exodus 9:13-16 (KJV)


6
These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to
blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will. - Revelation 11:6 (KJV)


With a more thorough study of the Scriptures and comparing Scripture with Scripture, the correlation is clear between the signs and wonders done in Exodus 7 & 9, 1 Kings 18 and 2 Kings 1 and Revelation 11.


Hence, the two witnesses are clearly Moses (
the Law) and Elijah (The prophet).


4 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.2 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.
3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the Lord of hosts.
4 Remember ye the law of Moses my servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, with the statutes and judgments.
5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord:
6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse. - Malachi 4:1-6 (KJV)
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
11,365
186
63
#37
Well I suppose you could call it that. And I see where you are coming from though with your answer previously.

And by the way, you did a excellent job of comparing Scripture with Scripture.


I believe that the Prophecy in Malachi 4:4-6 is a prophecy that applies to both the first and second comings of Jesus Christ. Because again note that in Malachi 4:5:


5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord:

The reference to the great and dreadful day of the LORD is clearly a reference to the Second Coming of the Lord Jesus Christ at the end of the time of Jacob's trouble.


The Second Coming of Jesus Christ will indeed be a dreadful day.


So again, I believe that the Prophecy about Elijah the prophet in Malachi 4 applies to both the first and second coming of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Also note too that when the Jews asked John the Baptist if he was Elijah, he confessed that he wasn't.



19 And this is the record of John, when the Jews sent priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, Who art thou?
20 And he confessed, and denied not; but confessed, I am not the Christ.
21 And they asked him, What then? Art thou Elias? And he saith, I am not. Art thou that prophet? And he answered, No.
22 Then said they unto him, Who art thou? that we may give an answer to them that sent us. What sayest thou of thyself?
23 He said, I am the voice of one crying in the wilderness, Make straight the way of the Lord, as said the prophet Esaias.
- John 1:19-23 (KJV)



Another thing Starfield to consider is that the sings and wonders that are mentioned being done in Revelation by the two witnesses line up exactly with the sings and wonders done by Moses and Elijah.


21 And Elijah came unto all the people, and said, How long halt ye between two opinions? if the Lord be God, follow him: but if Baal, then follow him. And the people answered him not a word.
22 Then said Elijah unto the people, I, even I only, remain a prophet of the Lord; but Baal's prophets are four hundred and fifty men.
23 Let them therefore give us two bullocks; and let them choose one bullock for themselves, and cut it in pieces, and lay it on wood, and put no fire under: and I will dress the other bullock, and lay it on wood, and put no fire under:
24 And call ye on the name of your gods, and I will call on the name of the Lord: and the God that answereth by fire, let him be God. And all the people answered and said, It is well spoken.
25 And Elijah said unto the prophets of Baal, Choose you one bullock for yourselves, and dress it first; for ye are many; and call on the name of your gods, but put no fire under.
26 And they took the bullock which was given them, and they dressed it, and called on the name of Baal from morning even until noon, saying, O Baal, hear us. But there was no voice, nor any that answered. And they leaped upon the altar which was made.
27 And it came to pass at noon, that Elijah mocked them, and said, Cry aloud: for he is a god; either he is talking, or he is pursuing, or he is in a journey, or peradventure he sleepeth, and must be awaked.
28 And they cried aloud, and cut themselves after their manner with knives and lancets, till the blood gushed out upon them.
29 And it came to pass, when midday was past, and they prophesied until the time of the offering of the evening sacrifice, that there was neither voice, nor any to answer, nor any that regarded.
30 And Elijah said unto all the people, Come near unto me. And all the people came near unto him. And he repaired the altar of the Lord that was broken down.
31 And Elijah took twelve stones, according to the number of the tribes of the sons of Jacob, unto whom the word of the Lord came, saying, Israel shall be thy name:
32 And with the stones he built an altar in the name of the Lord: and he made a trench about the altar, as great as would contain two measures of seed.
33 And he put the wood in order, and cut the bullock in pieces, and laid him on the wood, and said, Fill four barrels with water, and pour it on the burnt sacrifice, and on the wood.
34 And he said, Do it the second time. And they did it the second time. And he said, Do it the third time. And they did it the third time.
35 And the water ran round about the altar; and he filled the trench also with water.
36 And it came to pass at the time of the offering of the evening sacrifice, that Elijah the prophet came near, and said,Lord God of Abraham, Isaac, and of Israel, let it be known this day that thou art God in Israel, and that I am thy servant, and that I have done all these things at thy word.
37 Hear me, O Lord, hear me, that this people may know that thou art the Lord God, and that thou hast turned their heart back again.
38 Then the fire of the Lord fell, and consumed the burnt sacrifice, and the wood, and the stones, and the dust, and licked up the water that was in the trench.
39 And when all the people saw it, they fell on their faces: and they said, The Lord, he is the God; the Lord, he is the God.
40 And Elijah said unto them, Take the prophets of Baal; let not one of them escape. And they took them: and Elijah brought them down to the brook Kishon, and slew them there. - 1 Kings 18:21-40 (KJV)


10 And Elijah answered and said to the captain of fifty, If I be a man of God, then let fire come down from heaven, and consume thee and thy fifty. And there came down fire from heaven, and consumed him and his fifty. - 2 Kings 1:10 (KJV)



3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed. - Revelation 11:3-5 (KJV)


As for Moses, we also see a parallel between Exodus and Revelation of the signs and wonders performed:



19 And the Lord spake unto Moses, Say unto Aaron, Take thy rod, and stretch out thine hand upon the waters of Egypt, upon their streams, upon their rivers, and upon their ponds, and upon all their pools of water, that they may become blood; and that there may be blood throughout all the land of Egypt, both in vessels of wood, and in vessels of stone.
20 And Moses and Aaron did so, as the Lord commanded; and he lifted up the rod, and smote the waters that were in the river, in the sight of Pharaoh, and in the sight of his servants; and all the waters that were in the river were turned to blood. - Exodus 7:19-20 (KJV)




13 And the Lord said unto Moses, Rise up early in the morning, and stand before Pharaoh, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord God of the Hebrews, Let my people go, that they may serve me.
14 For I will at this time send all my plagues upon thine heart, and upon thy servants, and upon thy people; that thou mayest know that there is none like me in all the earth.
15 For now I will stretch out my hand, that I may smite thee and thy people with pestilence; and thou shalt be cut off from the earth.
16 And in very deed for this cause have I raised thee up, for to shew in thee my power; and that my name may be declared throughout all the earth. - Exodus 9:13-16 (KJV)


6
These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to
blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will. - Revelation 11:6 (KJV)


With a more thorough study of the Scriptures and comparing Scripture with Scripture, the correlation is clear between the signs and wonders done in Exodus 7 & 9, 1 Kings 18 and 2 Kings 1 and Revelation 11.


Hence, the two witnesses are clearly Moses (
the Law) and Elijah (The prophet).


4 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.2 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.
3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the Lord of hosts.
4 Remember ye the law of Moses my servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, with the statutes and judgments.
5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord:
6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse. - Malachi 4:1-6 (KJV)
Type and anti-type.
 
R

reject-tech

Guest
#38
I like this answer. You may be right -- it may be a false dichotomy; it's entirely possible that Elijah was returning twice, once in the form of John and again in the end times. But... that still requires a refutation of the evidence in John 1:21 in which John the Baptist denies being Elijah (because that goes against half of the assertion that Elijah made/is making two visits).
I think it's a spirit that returns not an identity, and it can return in us, if we turn hearts and preach a straightening of ways.
I believe this same spirit was in Enoch, Elijah, John the baptist, those being the most well known.
I think John the baptist said he wasn't Elijah because he knew he was a different identity, but I think he knew he had the same spirit. It might have been a little prideful to come right out and claim it.
Just like the spirit of Moses was in Paul, dissecting the law of love again.
And both in Jesus, shown in the transfiguration.
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
11,365
186
63
#39
I think it's a spirit that returns not an identity, and it can return in us, if we turn hearts and preach a straightening of ways.
I believe this same spirit was in Enoch, Elijah, John the baptist, those being the most well known.
I think John the baptist said he wasn't Elijah because he knew he was a different identity, but I think he knew he had the same spirit. It might have been a little prideful to come right out and claim it.
Just like the spirit of Moses was in Paul, dissecting the law of love again.
And both in Jesus, shown in the transfiguration.
He came in the Spirit and power of Elijah, do will the end time Elijah. He will not claim to be Elijah, but will come in that Spirit and power.
 
J

josh123

Guest
#40
Well I suppose you could call it that. And I see where you are coming from though with your answer previously.

And by the way, you did a excellent job of comparing Scripture with Scripture.


I believe that the Prophecy in Malachi 4:4-6 is a prophecy that applies to both the first and second comings of Jesus Christ. Because again note that in Malachi 4:5:


5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord:

The reference to the great and dreadful day of the LORD is clearly a reference to the Second Coming of the Lord Jesus Christ at the end of the time of Jacob's trouble.


The Second Coming of Jesus Christ will indeed be a dreadful day.


So again, I believe that the Prophecy about Elijah the prophet in Malachi 4 applies to both the first and second coming of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Also note too that when the Jews asked John the Baptist if he was Elijah, he confessed that he wasn't.



19 And this is the record of John, when the Jews sent priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, Who art thou?
20 And he confessed, and denied not; but confessed, I am not the Christ.
21 And they asked him, What then? Art thou Elias? And he saith, I am not. Art thou that prophet? And he answered, No.
22 Then said they unto him, Who art thou? that we may give an answer to them that sent us. What sayest thou of thyself?
23 He said, I am the voice of one crying in the wilderness, Make straight the way of the Lord, as said the prophet Esaias.
- John 1:19-23 (KJV)



Another thing Starfield to consider is that the sings and wonders that are mentioned being done in Revelation by the two witnesses line up exactly with the sings and wonders done by Moses and Elijah.


21 And Elijah came unto all the people, and said, How long halt ye between two opinions? if the Lord be God, follow him: but if Baal, then follow him. And the people answered him not a word.
22 Then said Elijah unto the people, I, even I only, remain a prophet of the Lord; but Baal's prophets are four hundred and fifty men.
23 Let them therefore give us two bullocks; and let them choose one bullock for themselves, and cut it in pieces, and lay it on wood, and put no fire under: and I will dress the other bullock, and lay it on wood, and put no fire under:
24 And call ye on the name of your gods, and I will call on the name of the Lord: and the God that answereth by fire, let him be God. And all the people answered and said, It is well spoken.
25 And Elijah said unto the prophets of Baal, Choose you one bullock for yourselves, and dress it first; for ye are many; and call on the name of your gods, but put no fire under.
26 And they took the bullock which was given them, and they dressed it, and called on the name of Baal from morning even until noon, saying, O Baal, hear us. But there was no voice, nor any that answered. And they leaped upon the altar which was made.
27 And it came to pass at noon, that Elijah mocked them, and said, Cry aloud: for he is a god; either he is talking, or he is pursuing, or he is in a journey, or peradventure he sleepeth, and must be awaked.
28 And they cried aloud, and cut themselves after their manner with knives and lancets, till the blood gushed out upon them.
29 And it came to pass, when midday was past, and they prophesied until the time of the offering of the evening sacrifice, that there was neither voice, nor any to answer, nor any that regarded.
30 And Elijah said unto all the people, Come near unto me. And all the people came near unto him. And he repaired the altar of the Lord that was broken down.
31 And Elijah took twelve stones, according to the number of the tribes of the sons of Jacob, unto whom the word of the Lord came, saying, Israel shall be thy name:
32 And with the stones he built an altar in the name of the Lord: and he made a trench about the altar, as great as would contain two measures of seed.
33 And he put the wood in order, and cut the bullock in pieces, and laid him on the wood, and said, Fill four barrels with water, and pour it on the burnt sacrifice, and on the wood.
34 And he said, Do it the second time. And they did it the second time. And he said, Do it the third time. And they did it the third time.
35 And the water ran round about the altar; and he filled the trench also with water.
36 And it came to pass at the time of the offering of the evening sacrifice, that Elijah the prophet came near, and said,Lord God of Abraham, Isaac, and of Israel, let it be known this day that thou art God in Israel, and that I am thy servant, and that I have done all these things at thy word.
37 Hear me, O Lord, hear me, that this people may know that thou art the Lord God, and that thou hast turned their heart back again.
38 Then the fire of the Lord fell, and consumed the burnt sacrifice, and the wood, and the stones, and the dust, and licked up the water that was in the trench.
39 And when all the people saw it, they fell on their faces: and they said, The Lord, he is the God; the Lord, he is the God.
40 And Elijah said unto them, Take the prophets of Baal; let not one of them escape. And they took them: and Elijah brought them down to the brook Kishon, and slew them there. - 1 Kings 18:21-40 (KJV)


10 And Elijah answered and said to the captain of fifty, If I be a man of God, then let fire come down from heaven, and consume thee and thy fifty. And there came down fire from heaven, and consumed him and his fifty. - 2 Kings 1:10 (KJV)



3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed. - Revelation 11:3-5 (KJV)


As for Moses, we also see a parallel between Exodus and Revelation of the signs and wonders performed:



19 And the Lord spake unto Moses, Say unto Aaron, Take thy rod, and stretch out thine hand upon the waters of Egypt, upon their streams, upon their rivers, and upon their ponds, and upon all their pools of water, that they may become blood; and that there may be blood throughout all the land of Egypt, both in vessels of wood, and in vessels of stone.
20 And Moses and Aaron did so, as the Lord commanded; and he lifted up the rod, and smote the waters that were in the river, in the sight of Pharaoh, and in the sight of his servants; and all the waters that were in the river were turned to blood. - Exodus 7:19-20 (KJV)




13 And the Lord said unto Moses, Rise up early in the morning, and stand before Pharaoh, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord God of the Hebrews, Let my people go, that they may serve me.
14 For I will at this time send all my plagues upon thine heart, and upon thy servants, and upon thy people; that thou mayest know that there is none like me in all the earth.
15 For now I will stretch out my hand, that I may smite thee and thy people with pestilence; and thou shalt be cut off from the earth.
16 And in very deed for this cause have I raised thee up, for to shew in thee my power; and that my name may be declared throughout all the earth. - Exodus 9:13-16 (KJV)


6
These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to
blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will. - Revelation 11:6 (KJV)


With a more thorough study of the Scriptures and comparing Scripture with Scripture, the correlation is clear between the signs and wonders done in Exodus 7 & 9, 1 Kings 18 and 2 Kings 1 and Revelation 11.


Hence, the two witnesses are clearly Moses (
the Law) and Elijah (The prophet).


4 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.2 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.
3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the Lord of hosts.
4 Remember ye the law of Moses my servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, with the statutes and judgments.
5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord:
6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse. - Malachi 4:1-6 (KJV)
can't compare malachi 3/4 to the end time prophets in revelation different occasions, but the end time prophets will be moses and elijah that part is correct and i'm curious about this part though 4 Remember ye the law of Moses my servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, with the statutes and judgments. i'm wondering if we because if we notice in the first 1-4 verses this is talking about after the end comes because it explains what happens i'm wondering who this is talking to if we must do follow or if it is talking directly to the jews