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B
Look after I was saved I didn't fully understand Jesus deity and how important it was until I started reading and learning. Then I found out a believer should know what Son of God means. Yes a person who can't comprehend it first hand can be saved, but they should attempt to understand what they believe in a little bit more don't you think?
The truth is Jesus is God.Jesus is God according to His deity and has a beginning according to His humanity.
Jesus is the only way we will be able to see the invisible God.
Jesus is the visible relationship that God has with the saints and the Holy Spirit is the invisible relationship that God has with the saints.
The Bible says that the throne in heaven is both the throne of God and the Lamb who is the man Christ Jesus who has a glorified body.
God will sit upon the throne in heaven in the glorified body of the man Christ Jesus.
The Bible says that God was manifest in the flesh and Jesus is the fulness of the Godhead bodily,which means that the man Christ Jesus has the fulness of God's attributes,which He has the Spirit without measure and it pleased the Father that all fulness should dwell in Christ.
All God's Spirit cannot fit in to a bodily manifestation which the Bible says that the heaven of heavens cannot contain God,but God manifest all His attributes to the man Christ Jesus and the Spirit in the man Christ Jesus is still connected to the omnipresent Spirit of God for God cannot be separated making Jesus God Himself showing a bodily manifestation of Himself.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this(Isaiah 9:6-7).
Jesus is the mighty God and the only way we will see the everlasting Father.Jesus said if you have seen Him then you have seen the Father for Jesus is the only way we will see the invisible God.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Therefore my people shall know my name: therefore they shall know in that day that I am he that doth speak: behold, it is I(Isaiah 52:6).
The Jews already knew the name Jehovah but God said He will reveal to them a new name and speak to them which He did by Jesus Christ which the Son inherited the name Jesus from the Father and Jesus said He came to reveal the Father's name which is Jesus.Jesus is Jehovah and the name Jehovah was only revealed to represent physical deliverance from Egypt where the name Jesus reveals spiritual deliverance.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting(Micah 5:2).
The Bible says when Jesus comes He will be from everlasting which means Jesus has no beginning for He is God but has a beginning according to His humanity which is why the Son is not as great as the Father for humanity is not greater than God.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is his son's name, if thou canst tell(Proverbs 30:4).
God will reveal a new name in the New Testament which will be the name of both the Father and Son.Since Jesus is God manifest in the flesh it is both the name of God and the Son,the man Christ Jesus.
Jesus is God and the new name that Jehovah revealed in the New Testament.Jesus is Jehovah.Jesus is God.
Jesus is the only way we will be able to see the invisible God.
Jesus is the visible relationship that God has with the saints and the Holy Spirit is the invisible relationship that God has with the saints.
The Bible says that the throne in heaven is both the throne of God and the Lamb who is the man Christ Jesus who has a glorified body.
God will sit upon the throne in heaven in the glorified body of the man Christ Jesus.
The Bible says that God was manifest in the flesh and Jesus is the fulness of the Godhead bodily,which means that the man Christ Jesus has the fulness of God's attributes,which He has the Spirit without measure and it pleased the Father that all fulness should dwell in Christ.
All God's Spirit cannot fit in to a bodily manifestation which the Bible says that the heaven of heavens cannot contain God,but God manifest all His attributes to the man Christ Jesus and the Spirit in the man Christ Jesus is still connected to the omnipresent Spirit of God for God cannot be separated making Jesus God Himself showing a bodily manifestation of Himself.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this(Isaiah 9:6-7).
Jesus is the mighty God and the only way we will see the everlasting Father.Jesus said if you have seen Him then you have seen the Father for Jesus is the only way we will see the invisible God.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Therefore my people shall know my name: therefore they shall know in that day that I am he that doth speak: behold, it is I(Isaiah 52:6).
The Jews already knew the name Jehovah but God said He will reveal to them a new name and speak to them which He did by Jesus Christ which the Son inherited the name Jesus from the Father and Jesus said He came to reveal the Father's name which is Jesus.Jesus is Jehovah and the name Jehovah was only revealed to represent physical deliverance from Egypt where the name Jesus reveals spiritual deliverance.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting(Micah 5:2).
The Bible says when Jesus comes He will be from everlasting which means Jesus has no beginning for He is God but has a beginning according to His humanity which is why the Son is not as great as the Father for humanity is not greater than God.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is his son's name, if thou canst tell(Proverbs 30:4).
God will reveal a new name in the New Testament which will be the name of both the Father and Son.Since Jesus is God manifest in the flesh it is both the name of God and the Son,the man Christ Jesus.
Jesus is God and the new name that Jehovah revealed in the New Testament.Jesus is Jehovah.Jesus is God.
Firstly, I am not trying to convince you Jesus isn't God, let us be clear on that point, you know what I am debating here.
Secondly, we b oth believe Christ has the nature of God
Thirdly
I do not believe once a person is a Christian they study theology to understand who Christ is and must be believed to be. If a person can become a Christian by simply believing Jesus is the Son of God, they always can remain a Christian by solely believing that, otherwise they could never have been a Christian to begin with, please think that through
It is the Holy Spirit who convicts a person in their Spirit to believe acceptably as to who Christ is, it has to be that way, it is the only way. It is not a theological study, but heartfelt belief of the Spirit
Secondly, we b oth believe Christ has the nature of God
Thirdly
I do not believe once a person is a Christian they study theology to understand who Christ is and must be believed to be. If a person can become a Christian by simply believing Jesus is the Son of God, they always can remain a Christian by solely believing that, otherwise they could never have been a Christian to begin with, please think that through
It is the Holy Spirit who convicts a person in their Spirit to believe acceptably as to who Christ is, it has to be that way, it is the only way. It is not a theological study, but heartfelt belief of the Spirit
B
I think we been on two different sides of the fence. See I'm not expecting young Josh here to understand the trinity once he gave his life to the Lord, but usually people who are saved were first taught that Jesus is God as the Son, namely, Son of God. I believed Jesus was God once saved, because it meant the same thing as Son of God, by people who help lead me to Christ. If you're teaching youre evangelizing the word, don't forget to tell them about the deity of Christ. But you see it's not their fault of they have to learn that after being saved, it's the teachers fault. So it's kinda like they have to refind what the gospel truly means in depth, as they should have during conversion. See now I didn't understand the trinity till farther down the line. But I knew what Son of God meant at least in my beginning birth.
Bryan
Thanks for explaining what you have.
You and I both believe Christ is the Holy Son of God. We both believe the Father either directly or through the Holy Spirit fully dwells in the body of Christ, we both believe Christ has the nature of God, and is a true reflection of the person/Spirit of God
We differ in two things, I believe the Father is the one true God, and greater than the Son
Now you don't have to reply publically to this, but ;please think about it.
I hope you will not be like a few are who reason that a person who sees Christ as I do cannot be saved because I solely see him to be the Son of God. I would think we pretty much agree as to the make up of Christ if you like, but disagree as to one of his titles and whether the Father is greater than he. I say this simply because I like you, if you follow a few, and make the statements they do, you are in effect stating a person stands condemned for believing the plain words of Christ your Saviour, I sincerely hope you will not do it, for that must damage your spiritual walk
God Bless
Thanks for explaining what you have.
You and I both believe Christ is the Holy Son of God. We both believe the Father either directly or through the Holy Spirit fully dwells in the body of Christ, we both believe Christ has the nature of God, and is a true reflection of the person/Spirit of God
We differ in two things, I believe the Father is the one true God, and greater than the Son
Now you don't have to reply publically to this, but ;please think about it.
I hope you will not be like a few are who reason that a person who sees Christ as I do cannot be saved because I solely see him to be the Son of God. I would think we pretty much agree as to the make up of Christ if you like, but disagree as to one of his titles and whether the Father is greater than he. I say this simply because I like you, if you follow a few, and make the statements they do, you are in effect stating a person stands condemned for believing the plain words of Christ your Saviour, I sincerely hope you will not do it, for that must damage your spiritual walk
God Bless
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Knowing what you believe is not an academic exercise, it is knowing your Lord and saviour. And if you read your bible you cannot miss the fact that Jesus is God. Secondly, You will certainly want to Know who God is, atleast as far as we can, as God has revealed.
There are a couple of other points:
1) Any preacher worth his calling will teach what the scripture says about God (that he is triune)
2) A preacher who teaches anything different is not teaching about the God of scripture
3)Anyone who denies who Jesus is, can hardly be called an heir with Christ, However as I have already said, some may not know to start with, but hey cannot continue to hold that view, for t is blasphemy.
The trinity is a primary teaching of scripture about God, its a non negotiable, the true church has always held to it, and still does and always will.
God can and will call his people out even if in false belief. With a heartfelt BELIF IN JESUS
P.s it is theological
it should impact your whole life.
There are a couple of other points:
1) Any preacher worth his calling will teach what the scripture says about God (that he is triune)
2) A preacher who teaches anything different is not teaching about the God of scripture
3)Anyone who denies who Jesus is, can hardly be called an heir with Christ, However as I have already said, some may not know to start with, but hey cannot continue to hold that view, for t is blasphemy.
The trinity is a primary teaching of scripture about God, its a non negotiable, the true church has always held to it, and still does and always will.
God can and will call his people out even if in false belief. With a heartfelt BELIF IN JESUS
P.s it is theological
it should impact your whole life.
Knowing what you believe is not an academic exercise, it is knowing your Lord and saviour. And if you read your bible you cannot miss the fact that Jesus is God. Secondly, You will certainly want to Know who God is, atleast as far as we can, as God has revealed.
There are a couple of other points:
1) Any preacher worth his calling will teach what the scripture says about God (that he is triune)
2) A preacher who teaches anything different is not teaching about the God of scripture
3)Anyone who denies who Jesus is, can hardly be called an heir with Christ, However as I have already said, some may not know to start with, but hey cannot continue to hold that view, for t is blasphemy.
The trinity is a primary teaching of scripture about God, its a non negotiable, the true church has always held to it, and still does and always will.
God can and will call his people out even if in false belief. With a heartfelt BELIF IN JESUS
P.s it is theological it should impact your whole life.
There are a couple of other points:
1) Any preacher worth his calling will teach what the scripture says about God (that he is triune)
2) A preacher who teaches anything different is not teaching about the God of scripture
3)Anyone who denies who Jesus is, can hardly be called an heir with Christ, However as I have already said, some may not know to start with, but hey cannot continue to hold that view, for t is blasphemy.
The trinity is a primary teaching of scripture about God, its a non negotiable, the true church has always held to it, and still does and always will.
God can and will call his people out even if in false belief. With a heartfelt BELIF IN JESUS
P.s it is theological
it should impact your whole life.
The Pharisees crushed the people with man made demands and condemned the innocent, it makes me weep to see the same is happening today
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G
We need to pray for those who do not understand who Jesus really is, how great is the God of the universe, who could make Himself into a man who was a Man that no one could outdo. How great is that?
I, too, believed at one time, I think, I don't know, God really had me just re-thinking things, too, but, yeah, I was thinking of Jesus as not God. But, I prayed to myself and to Him for clear understanding of this important Truth and God kept showing me verses of plurality and verses of power that explained He was one, not, two, not three, but one. Even though God looked like He had a own Son, nope, not two, not three, not one, even though the Holy Spirit could be completely seperate, too, but, no, this Helper is, too, the very deity in us who is our Everlasting God.
It is true, too, Scripture doesn't lie, 'The Father is greater than the Son."
However, this is God merely showing us Who He really is, He is 'great,' He is 'greater,' and, He is 'greatest.' He is whoever and whatever and can do things whenever and however and through whoever He wants. The Lord will get His will done on Earth, with or without you. How quickly did God get past Moses not wanting to be a spokesperson, despite God's urging? Like two seconds, LOL. 'Your brother, Aaron, is around, isn't he?' I paraphrase, but you get the point. And, the point is this......
...... He is all and all. Quire fantastical Scripture words there, it pretty much says it 'all,' doesn't it
God became Jesus to show us THE WAY Home. Can't be any clearer than that, Jesus is Almighty God, He is The Way, He The Word, and, He is The One
I, too, believed at one time, I think, I don't know, God really had me just re-thinking things, too, but, yeah, I was thinking of Jesus as not God. But, I prayed to myself and to Him for clear understanding of this important Truth and God kept showing me verses of plurality and verses of power that explained He was one, not, two, not three, but one. Even though God looked like He had a own Son, nope, not two, not three, not one, even though the Holy Spirit could be completely seperate, too, but, no, this Helper is, too, the very deity in us who is our Everlasting God.
It is true, too, Scripture doesn't lie, 'The Father is greater than the Son."
However, this is God merely showing us Who He really is, He is 'great,' He is 'greater,' and, He is 'greatest.' He is whoever and whatever and can do things whenever and however and through whoever He wants. The Lord will get His will done on Earth, with or without you. How quickly did God get past Moses not wanting to be a spokesperson, despite God's urging? Like two seconds, LOL. 'Your brother, Aaron, is around, isn't he?' I paraphrase, but you get the point. And, the point is this......
...... He is all and all. Quire fantastical Scripture words there, it pretty much says it 'all,' doesn't it
God became Jesus to show us THE WAY Home. Can't be any clearer than that, Jesus is Almighty God, He is The Way, He The Word, and, He is The One
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G
Watching this thread has been a very interesting thing to see, it kinda brings me back to when I was studying about the reformation...Youth often times sees things through unconditioned, and undamaged eyes, and just plain refuses to yield to the old Doctrine laid down before them by men...These are fresh eyes looking at old paradigms of doctrine, that have caused much more discourse over the centuries, then Love, and they are saying no to what looks off about the present paradigm in Christianity, as did the reformationist ... and I believe they are saying no to being bullied into doctrinal views that have proved over the years to breed more discourse in man then The Love Of Christ...Doctrine can be extremely self serving, and at times, has been very polarizing over the last 2000 years, and more so in the last 400. Mans doctrine dosent always equate to Gods Word, their is always interpretive mechanics that go with doctrine no matter how stead fast man stays on the course he believes to be the true path, it may just be himself decieving himself, satan loves that about us...If we all agree the Bible is Gods breath, then we should agree man interprets these words sometimes in direct response to the Holy Spirit ... but sometimes just to build his own soapbox to stand on, or control from...Luther was dammed by the church for his ideas about Scripture and the church, yet here we are living in a world with many protestants, (one which Im am) so was the reformation a blessing? Or no? I think so, but dont throw out the precious baby with the bath water... Spiritual growth, is a slow, painful process, often met with anger and condemnation...We have the Gospels, it states what it states, and we also have doctrine that tell us what it states...Personally, Ill stick with the Gospel, and leave the interpretations between me and Christ, because man just dosent have the mind of God that his ego tells him he has...Prayer and meditation along with scripture should open up a window for the Holy Spirit to come in through, and The Love of Christ embraced...Doctrine will just create Nuro Pathways that play the same old tape over n over again...Just sayin Peace...
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If I may say. Even among Trinitarians there is differing opinion, some believe the Father is greater than the Son, others don't accept this. You asked someone a question along these lines yesterday and they just evaded answering.
As to the question you asked me
You know I have huge respect for what you write, and you also know what I am solely discussing here, but I will answer your question, though you may not find my simplicity enough!
The Bible plainly states the Father is the one true God, it does not state the Son is
As to the question you asked me
You know I have huge respect for what you write, and you also know what I am solely discussing here, but I will answer your question, though you may not find my simplicity enough!
The Bible plainly states the Father is the one true God, it does not state the Son is
As you know, I am here to discuss one thing only, not go through all the scriptures as to whether Christ is God/the one true God. I will just respond once more though on this
As Jesus plainly stated the Father is the one true God, and bearing in mind the author you are quoting stated twice
'No one has seen God at anytime'
I think that verse needs to be looked at, and understood bearing that in mind. If the Father is not the one true God, then Christ did not speak the truth.
As Jesus plainly stated the Father is the one true God, and bearing in mind the author you are quoting stated twice
'No one has seen God at anytime'
I think that verse needs to be looked at, and understood bearing that in mind. If the Father is not the one true God, then Christ did not speak the truth.
B
If the Father is greater than the Son, then there is a distinction between the two, both in administrations and functions. I like your previous post, the human is just like the trinity. You have the soul, spirit, and flesh. Neither of them are the same function but they exist coherently as one person. Persons is what separates the difference between the titles. One being in three personal functions as God. Since Jesus sits at the right hand of the Father as we speak, the Spirit of God dwells in you....now how does that not explain persons?