Is God, defined by your definition?

[thecreationtutor]

[h=1]Exodus 34:6–7[/h]
6 The Lord passed before him and proclaimed, d“The Lord, the Lord, a God merciful andegracious, slow to anger, and abounding in steadfast flove and faithfulness, 7 gkeeping steadfast love for thousands,1 hforgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, but iwho will by no means clear the guilty, jvisiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children and the children’s children, to the third and the fourth generation.”

 

[thecreationtutor]

Welcome to the website. Hope you find joy and peace.

Also. Hope you have an open mind. and do not take things personally as some do. We like to discuss our beliefs.. And some people take this personal

God did not Hate a kid number one. Read malachi. God loved jacob (isreal) and he hated Esau (edom) it was not speaking about the kids, but about the nations these kids produced with their offspring.

Also not in the hebrew language, Hate does not mean the same it does in the english. I can love you and my family. but not the same, just by the word you would not be able to tell.

The word hate in the hebrew also means "love less" God hates no one, But he loves some more than he does others.

Why? Love is relational. Those who have a personal relationship with God is most definately going to have more Of gods love for them, because there is a relationship.

Those who do not. God does not HATE., he loves them also. Just not as much. because there is no relationship.

Also, examples of hate being used not to hate.

in the NT, God said to love our parents and spouses. And children, Yet he also said plainly, if we do not hate them, we will suffer.

Now God did not contradict himself. He used the same term. Which means love less. If we do not love God more than our family. We will suffer in being used by God.

Hope this helps. and again, Welcome!

twist some words so God appears better morally, that's what this post is about - If you look up where it says God hates things - it means hate -

 

[joeyruready]

God can not be defined. HE can not be "known." We can know God in part. We can feel HIs spirit flowing through us. We can feel the power that created the universe secure us. God has described and revealed Himself to us but we should always keep in mind that we are finite. God is infinite(not Trinitarian). God can not fit into our minds but HIs spirit will join ours inside of us as we obey HIm.

But what if our children aren't one of the elect?

I thought I would respond to this. My children have a special place in my heart. So does their mother. I trust God for the salvation of my children and their mother. Do they appear to be saved? No. Does this mean they aren't? NO. God has taught me so many things through trusting Him with my children and x wife. Fix your eyes on Jesus. Set your hearts on things above. Put your trust entirely in God. You will not be disappointed. God is faithful. God keeps HIs promises. I pray that as you obey HIs word and learn to practice it you too will receive the same peace God has so graciously given me. God be with you all.

 

[thecreationtutor]

[TABLE="width: 608"]
[TR]
[TD]And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
H8130

1. 
   [*=left]to hate, be hateful
   
   1. 
      [*=left](Qal) to hate
      
      1. 
         [*=left]of man
         
         [*=left]of God
         
         [*=left]hater, one hating, enemy (participle) (subst)
      
      [*=left](Niphal) to be hated
      
      [*=left](Piel) hater (participle)
      
      1. 
         [*=left]of persons, nations, God, wisdom

G3404 Romans 9:13 hated Esau

1. 
   [*=left]to hate, pursue with hatred, detest
   
   [*=left]to be hated, detested

 

[thecreationtutor]

twist some words so God appears better morally, that's what this post is about - If you look up where it says God hates things - it means hate -

God loves less? - but if God is not a respecter of persons how can He do this?

 

[peacefulbeliever]

[TABLE="width: 608"]
[TR]
[TD]And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness.[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
H8130

1. 
   [*=left]to hate, be hateful
   1. 
      [*=left](Qal) to hate
      1. 
         [*=left]of man
         [*=left]of God
         [*=left]hater, one hating, enemy (participle) (subst)
      
      [*=left](Niphal) to be hated
      [*=left](Piel) hater (participle)
      1. 
         [*=left]of persons, nations, God, wisdom

G3404 Romans 9:13 hated Esau

1. 
   [*=left]to hate, pursue with hatred, detest
   [*=left]to be hated, detested

And the LORD said unto her, Two nations are in thy womb, and two manner of people shall be separated from thy bowels; and the one people shall be stronger than the other people; and the elder shall serve the younger. Gen. 25:23

. . . but Esau I have hated, (the nation of Edom) - and I have turned his hill country into a wasteland and left his inheritance to the desert jackals. Edom may say, though we have been curshed, we will rebuild the ruins. But this is what the LORD Almighty says: They may build, but I will demolish. They will be called the Wicked Land, a people always under the wrath of the LORD Malachi 1:1-3

Jacob represented the Nation of Israel and Esau the nation of Edom - Edom was the oldest nation - Edom served Israel. This love and hate used here is an idiom and means "cared more for" and "cared less for". God cared more for Jacob, i.e. the nation of Israel and "cared less for" Esau, i.e. the nation of Edom.

God cannot do or be anything contrary to his character. Is "hate" a part of God's character?

 

[peacefulbeliever]

God loves less? - but if God is not a respecter of persons how can He do this?

But saying God "hates" one person but loves another making God a respecter of persons?

And God saying I pick you, you, and you - but not you, you, and you - is making God a respecter of persons also.

 

[cfultz3]

God loves less? - but if God is not a respecter of persons how can He do this?

God SO LOVED THE WORLD....that would include all people.

God hates sins, but He loves people so much that He ordained that His Son should die to give them the opportunity to be with Him for eternity.....

 

[overcomer2]

Welcome to the website. Hope you find joy and peace.

Also. Hope you have an open mind. and do not take things personally as some do. We like to discuss our beliefs.. And some people take this personal

God did not Hate a kid number one. Read malachi. God loved jacob (isreal) and he hated Esau (edom) it was not speaking about the kids, but about the nations these kids produced with their offspring.

Also not in the hebrew language, Hate does not mean the same it does in the english. I can love you and my family. but not the same, just by the word you would not be able to tell.

The word hate in the hebrew also means "love less" God hates no one, But he loves some more than he does others.

Why? Love is relational. Those who have a personal relationship with God is most definately going to have more Of gods love for them, because there is a relationship.

Those who do not. God does not HATE., he loves them also. Just not as much. because there is no relationship.

Also, examples of hate being used not to hate.

in the NT, God said to love our parents and spouses. And children, Yet he also said plainly, if we do not hate them, we will suffer.

Now God did not contradict himself. He used the same term. Which means love less. If we do not love God more than our family. We will suffer in being used by God.

Hope this helps. and again, Welcome!

H[SUP]11 [/SUP](for the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth [SUP]12 [/SUP]it was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger. [SUP]13 [/SUP]As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
How do you get just the area your talking about in blue? Thank you for welcoming me. I am not contradicting just showing you I did know what I wanted to say.

 

[Starcrash]

but It is loving for God to send people to Hell, an atheist would argue contrary and most Christians would agree

If God is God, then He is completely free of us, and beyond us. God is a free agent, not us.

But how can this possibly fit the definition of love? To say that God's love is in a category of its own is to make a case of special pleading. None of us would send people we love to Hell under any circumstances, and because of that we can't empathize with God for doing it. God could have built only Heaven for us to populate, but as an atheist, it's clear that I believe God's continued non-existence is a limitation on His ability to do so.

 

[thecreationtutor]

hate is apart of his character, or it wouldn't say these things. There is a godly hate for sin, and things that destroy

 

[Trax]

I think that people want to say that they do not believe this, but they act contrary. They say that He is worthy of all Glory, and He is worthy to be submitted too, but they worship a lesser version of Him

God in His attributes are not comparable to man and the most 'moral man'

People want to say that God is love, amen, but it's not the love that we define as love

but It is loving for God to send people to Hell, an atheist would argue contrary and most Christians would agree

If God is God, then He is completely free of us, and beyond us. God is a free agent, not us.


If someone says God has elected some to be saved and some to be lost, people start saying all sorts of crazy things based on their view of God that should conform to their morality. They even go as far as to say teaching this is not Biblical, and heretical with the rest of the doctrines of Grace.

What it sounds more like is that they are taking a high and lofty view of God, and minimizing Him to fit their morality, with no view to His transcendence, His imminence and our guilt, our treason, our blasphemy against a Holy Holy Holy God


*** I'll be honest, but the study of this has led me to more praise and adoration for God then I have ever had in my Christian walk, and it just obliterates any thought I had of my own merit, and grips my heart onto Christ *** but then to some of you I am a false prophet and twist scripture

The issue is, does the person KNOW God or does the person just know ABOUT God?
No one here can know George Washington, because he is dead. Everyone has lost
the chance to meet him and get to KNOW him. But you can read all ABOUT him,
in a book. People can read ABOUT God in the Bible. But......but.....people need God
to give discernment about Himself. If one's knowledge of God is based on "flesh
and blood" a.k.a, the brain and intellect ONLY, then the person can ONLY know
ABOUT God.

Joh 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words:
and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Sadly, many get saved and start playing religion and don't have time to get to know
the One who just moved in. And then there are cases were people are playing religion,
and no one has moved in yet.

 

[thecreationtutor]

But how can this possibly fit the definition of love? To say that God's love is in a category of its own is to make a case of special pleading. None of us would send people we love to Hell under any circumstances, and because of that we can't empathize with God for doing it. God could have built only Heaven for us to populate, but as an atheist, it's clear that I believe God's continued non-existence is a limitation on His ability to do so.

The sum total of God is not love, like i said earlier - God's attributes are so far beyond what we can express, and it's always done in righteousness. The creation of all things are not for man, but for and to God, and to bring him glory.

sin has to be paid for, sinners must die, they are an affront to who god is and what he made us to be, god' love found a way to save us from his wrath

 

[thecreationtutor]

But saying God "hates" one person but loves another making God a respecter of persons?

And God saying I pick you, you, and you - but not you, you, and you - is making God a respecter of persons also.

hmm does god love us for us, or for Christ in us? that's a good question - but god also didn't choose us for anything good or any kind of merit in us, it wasn't anything from us - while we were yet sinners christ died for us

 

[Starcrash]

sin has to be paid for, sinners must die, they are an affront to who god is and what he made us to be, god' love found a way to save us from his wrath

Why do you assume that this had to be the case? Do you think that these things were true before the invention of sin and dying? Do you think that Hell was a necessary punishment before God created Hell or defined punishment?

The last sentence here is telling -- "God's love found a way to save us from His wrath". It's a good thing we have God to save us from Himself, eh?

 

[overcomer2]

He is no respecter of persons - this is not a putting heathen and saints in the same light

I believe the scripture Acts 10:34 Peter is saying this statement because he is in awe that Corneilius has heard from the Lord. When Cornelius had no claim on God. (I hope you already understand that the Jews had claim on Jesus. If you don't understand that, it will be a whole other can of worms of confusion. But I gave an example of the women who wanted crumb from the masters table and Jesus basically told her I didn't come for the dogs but to the children of Isreal
[h=3]Matthew 15:26-28[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]26 [/SUP]But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children’s bread, and to cast it to dogs. [SUP]27 [/SUP]And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters’ table. [SUP]28 [/SUP]Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith:

 

[in2it]

Then everything you do to try to raise them to see the love of God and accept him would be useless. Might as well not bother..

If God chose them, they will come no matter what you do. so why go through all the pain??

Because God knew you would chose to do His bidding. You would make the choice that was known by God before time. He knew you would do it, and we all know you would do it.

But say you didn't choose to teach your child. Well, God would have already known you wouldn't do it so He chose someone else, before time.

This all is all being based off the fact that your child was in fact predestined.

 

[cfultz3]

Because God knew you would chose to do His bidding. You would make the choice that was known by God before time. He knew you would do it, and we all know you would do it.

But say you didn't choose to teach your child. Well, God would have already known you wouldn't do it so He chose someone else, before time.

This all is all being based off the fact that your child was in fact predestined.

If I am predestined for Hell, how my soul cries for the time wasted believing Jesus to be my Savior.

If I am predestined for Heaven, how can God judge me condemned if I live wickedly?

But, this I know: whosoever shall believe in the Son shall be saved.

And, this I know also: predestination gives no hope to the soul seeking forgiveness.

 

[in2it]

If I am predestined for Hell, how my soul cries for the time wasted believing Jesus to be my Savior.

If I am predestined for Heaven, how can God judge me condemned if I live wickedly?

But, this I know: whosoever shall believe in the Son shall be saved.

And, this I know also: predestination gives no hope to the soul seeking forgiveness.

I believe we have free will to make the choice to listen and respond to the call of God, resulting in salvation. It seems to me that many put the concept of predestination in a little box where they are unable to see outside of that box.

God has to know everything or He wouldn't qualify as being God. Perhaps my definition of predestination is wrong, but I think He says Predestined meaning that He knew beforehand what choice we would make. We still made that choice on our own accord, but He actually created that which is within us to make that choice before He created the earth.

Not that He would force any choice on us. He knew our Spirit from the beginning because He breathed It into us.
The terms free will and predestination shouldn't be used against each other.

God gave us the Word, He also gave us the ability to discern the Word through His Holy Spirit. (a little common sense helps as well)
Do you really believe that if you made the choice to respond to the Word that He would of also gave you the Spirit of a unregenerate? No, I don't think that is what you are implying.

Think outside the box. Don't put predestination in a box.

In Christian Love,
Bill

 

[cfultz3]

Do you really believe that if you made the choice to respond to the Word that He would of also gave you the Spirit of a unregenerate? No, I don't think that is what you are implying.

If He were to have given me an unregenerated spirit, then He would be the one who has caused me to be condemned. Then, why would He judge me for something He has done?

If He were to have given me a regenerated spirit, then I am at liberty to live as I please and will not be held accountable for my actions. Yet, Scripture says that we are held accountable for our actions.

I have heard that every single person has a spirit when God breathed it into them. I have also heard that every single spirit (breathe) shall return to the One who gave it. So, to say that God gave some an unregenerated spirit, while He gave some a regenerated spirit, not only implies that God will be judging us based on something that He did, but also that God's breathe can sometimes be hurtful (evil), in the sense that it causes harm to the soul He gave the hurtful breathe to.