Dangers Of The False Messianic Movement

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Dec 21, 2012
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Dangers Of The False Messianic Movement
Dr. G. Reckart, Pastor
Jesus Church, Tampa, Florida

link -> Dangers Of The False Messianic Movement

The true Messianic movement within Judaism of the first century, was the out-growth of Jewish belief in a coming Messieh of the seed of David. He would bring together Israelites of the 12 tribes and restore the Kingdom of God upon the earth. The Kingdom of God was the throne of David over all Israel. The Messieh would come precisely at the end of 69 prophetic weeks. It was observed by Moses, that when the Messieh came not all Israelites would receive him. Moses said these would be destroyed from among the people (Acts 3:23).

It is false to believe Messieh would come and restore the nation. He was to restore the Kingdom. He taught his disciples to pray: "thy kingdom come." The hope of Israel for salvation and deliverance was to be spiritual not natural. In other words, Jews who looked for a military leader to defeat the Romans and set up a free nation, were wrong. When Messieh came he would bring out of the tribes those who were true believers and followers of God. The true Messianic movement begins with Jesus. He is called Jesus Messieh, or Jesus Christ to validate his identity.

Jesus observed the Law and was totally without blame. He was sinless. He broke no Commandments. Why? Because if he had broken any law or ordinance he would have sinned and could not be our spotless sacrifice. Some think because Jesus kept and observed the Law, they should also. This is the first danger of the false messianic movement.

The false messianic movement places great emphasis on Law-keeping. But they do not observed the entire Laws of the Commandments. They do not observe any of the laws demanding the death penalty. So, they break the very laws of commandments and ordinances they claim to keep. The false messianic movement does not put to death any of those many adulterers and fornicators among them. They do not put to death any of the sabbath breakers. They do not put to death witches. In fact, they do not keep any of the Laws of Moses although they pretend to do so.

The early followers of Jesus were called disciples. Not until the Gentile Church in Antioch were they called Christians. Now we understand Christian to be the same thing as Messiehian. Meaning allegedly those who follow Jesus as the Messieh. So, the names Messieh, Messianic, and Christian, are not evil. It is when these are stolen by false religious groups that they become questionable. These names are used to deceive. For instance, when the future antichrist comes to Israel he will claim he is the Messieh of David's seedline. He will use the name Messieh to deceive. Likewise with the use of Messianic and even Christian by those who are false but want to appear legitimate and true.

The first Church was indeed Messianic. From Acts chapter 1 all the way to Acts 15, the messianic message of Jesus was carried throughout Israel and into Gentile nations. There was at this time those of the Pharisees who came among the disciples but in whose heart there was no commitment to the New Testament order. They wanted to bring in their traditions, their legalism, their strict keeping of the Law. But the Apostles were not taught by Jesus during their three and one half years of spiritual education, that they were Ministers of the Law. They were not schooled in Temple politics and religious legalisms. They were not indoctrinated into strict law-keeping and enforcing the death penalty. Instead they were introduced to forgiveness, compassion, mercy, grace, love, and to the high and noble gift of salvation without the deeds of the law.

Yes, Jesus could say to a blind sinful Jew: "thy faith hath saved thee" (Luke 8:42). Yes, he could say to a sinful woman: "neither do I condemn thee, go and sin no more" (John 8:11). Jesus revealed in these and other cases that his mercy was not attached to law-keeping. His love was not reserved for those who kept the Ten Commandments. And he did not have a special blessing to those who observed the sabbath. Herein, we see Jesus offering compassion and salvation to those who under the Law had no hope. Because of this revelation in the life and ministry of Jesus, the New Testament is founded upon grace. And when we get to Calvary and witness the Messieh crucified, his forgiveness of them all, we know grace reigns supreme over the curse of the Law.

Herein is the great dangers of the false messianic movement. They believe by returning to strict law-keeping they get closer to God. They believe they are made holy by law-keeping which the Blood of Jesus could not do for them. So, they look for their own brand of holiness in law-keeping while many of the women are Jezebels and many of the men are adulterers. These legalist turn against everyone who refuses to come under that yoke of bondage.

The Pharisees birthed the false messianic movement and in fact split the first church. The evil and bad spirit came into the Antioch Church. They went to the Gentiles and told the men, they had to be circumcised. And once they were circumcised they were compelled to keep all the Laws of Moses. Now we are to understand here that the Antioch Church was already Holy Ghost filled. The members had already been baptized in Jesus name. And they were already a holiness people. They were SAVED! They had been saved by grace through faith (Acts 2:38). Now here come some Pharisees, recently converted, and they were now going to take over doctrine in the Church and usurp authority away from the Apostles.

The leaders of the Antioch Church were very wise. They did not make a change in doctrine because some men dressed in Jewish get-up came and said they now had to be law-keepers or they were not saved. Herein is a great danger of those in the false messianic movement. Salvation by Jesus is not good enough. In fact a person cannot be saved by Jesus alone. Even if a person claims they are saved, the false messianic movement will tell them they are not, until they return to law-keeping. The Antioch leaders sent messengers to Jerusalem. This shows wisdom. They did not accept the law-keeping Pharisees. They kept their doctrine out of the Church. They wanted Jerusalem to tell them the doctrines for them to keep.

Acts 15 and the convention in Jerusalem sets the record straight on Law Keeping. Any church, pastor, or group who go into law-keeping and who do not abide in the Apostolic doctrine of Acts 15 are apostate. These are a great danger to Churches and people of the nations.

No where in Acts 15 are the Gentiles told to keep the Law. No where are they told to observe the sabbath. No where are they told to put on Jewish style garments. No where are they told to use the six-pointed star of Remphan, and no where are they told they must keep the old feast days or be circumcised. The dangers of the false messianic movement can be easily seen.

The Apostle Paul wrote the book of Galatians after the Acts 15 convention. Some Pharisee law-keepers had come into that region preaching Gentiles had to be circumcised and keep the Law. Paul already knew the doctrine of Jerusalem. He knew what had been sent to Antioch. So he knew how to deal with the false messianic movement that placed focus on legalism and law-keeping.

It is believed by many scholars that this false messianic movement, also called the "Judaizers," was the birth of the Ebonite group. These eventually went off into snake dance worship as part of their rituals. This is where another flag goes up the flag pole with the false messianic movement. They go quickly into rituals. They adopt ritualistic dances they copy from apostate Jews believing they are from God. No, they are from ancient worship of Baal. Google circle dances and take a look at the same body movements used in witchcraft used among these law-keepers. These body movements are not Christian dances found in the New Testament. They began to chant ritualistic prayers. And when women rise to rule over the group, the spirit of witchcraft is channeled in so-called prophets and prophetesses. Members are put under the cultic spells of threats, of damnation, of death, or excommunication. Those who refuse to follow the rituals. Who refuse to participate in circle dances, who will not repeat the chants, are thrown out. Families are destroyed as the cult power works its way over men, women, and children. This is a great danger of the false messianic movement.

What do the false messianic movements do that are deceiving, cultic, and a great danger?

1.) They engage in ritual prayers (holding hands in a circle), chants, and circle dancing;
2.) They reject the name of Jesus as the name of a pig god and begin using Yahweh, Yahshua, or Yeshua;
3.) They begin sabbath keeping and damn all who worship on sunday;
4.) They begin to observe all the Old Testament feast days;
5.) They start trying to dress like they are Jewish wearing the tallit and kipah;
6.) They deny salvation is in Jesus alone, that a person must also keep the law to be saved;
7.) They reject Paul and call him a false apostle;
8.) They reject Paul's books: Romans, 1 & 2 Corinthians, Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, 1 & 2 Thessalonians; 1 & 2 Timothy; Titus, Philemon, and Hebrews.
9.) They preach another Gospel that Paul did not preach;
10.) They preach another Jesus that Paul did not preach;
11.) They teach the Talmud and the Kabbalah (witchcraft mysticism);
12.) They place Kabbalah emblems throughout their meeting places;
13.) They become very cruel and hateful to those who refuse to accept their concision doctrines;
14.) They teach for doctrine the commandments of men;
15.) They place women over members of the church and give them authority men alone should have;
16.) They replace baptism in Jesus name (Acts 2:38), and insert the name Yahweh, Yahshua, or Yeshua or some other guess name;
17.) They practice both male and female circumcision (female depending on the cult);
18.) They offer up animal sacrifices (some do not but fellowship with those who do);
19.) They celebrate Communion with old Passover emblems and not with unleavened bread and wine (also footwashing);
20.) They believe in polygamy and or fellowship those who do (allowing legalized adultery and fornication);
21.) They allow young girls under the age of 13 to be secretly married to religious leaders;
22.) Men will wear tallit prayer shawls with knotts that represent all the laws in the Old Testament;
23.) They teach a whole new vocabulary of Jewish words to embellish law-keeping that makes many who are fascinated by Jewishness believe they are doing things the first Christians did. This is a great deception and a danger. These rituals of prayers and words are not used by Jesus, the Apostles, or the first disciples. They are as false as a Catholic mass with all its Latin words and ritual.
24.) Women and young girls are forced to wear head coverings. These become more a symbol of submission to the false messianic movement then it does humility to God. It is a great danger to women and girls to be told if they do not wear these head coverings they are cursed and God will not hear their prayers or receive their worship;
25.) They make use of all sorts of cow, ram, goat, and fake horns to blow and act like they are being real Biblical:
26.) They worship the tetragrammaton YHVH or YHWH above the name of Jesus;
27.) Many men wear garments with all sorts of knots in fringes around their shirts;
28.) They make use of the Menorah, but do so in a false way. This is wrong use of a right emblem. They do not use it to represent Jesus;
29.) For the most part, these law-keepers are not holiness people. They are a mixture of all kinds of religion. Next week they may transmute into something completely different than what they are today. They are not people with stable and consistent doctrine, faith, practice, conduct, and order.

If you are in a law-keeping assembly leave immediately.
If you cannot leave, withdraw from participation in all of the worship and rituals.
If they cast you out as evil, rejoice, for so did the false law-keepers to the Prophets, Jesus, Apostles, and early Believers.

The grace of our Lord Jesus Messieh be with us all.

Pastor G. Reckart
813-277-4005
 
B

Bazman

Guest
#2
Isn't there a movement like this called the Hebrew Roots? Sounds like them. Yep I stay away from them. After all the Epistles especially tell of the dangers of these type of people. As far as I am concerned the Epistles are in the Bible for a reason, these movements were dangerous back then and they are very much dangerous now!
 

KohenMatt

Senior Member
Jun 28, 2013
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#3
Hey, I'm kind of a Hebrew Roots guy, and I'm not that bad of a guy.:p
 
Oct 31, 2011
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#4
I don't understand how people can say they believe in Christ and God, but do not believe in anything that happened leading up to the earthly life and crucifixion of Christ. Do they actually think that Christ and God did not exist before He lived among us?

It seems to me that if we only know of God as He was after the crucifixion we can't really understand God, or even the NT telling us of the changes Christ made. If we don't understand what it was before, how can they know the changes.

People seem to be so afraid of their loving, wonderful Father. They say the people who love God the Father only love law keeping, they throw all kinds of mud at that knowing. The priests and their duties tell of our duties as priests. The feasts give God's plan for our world. The rituals are a ceremonial acting out of what God asks of us to do in spirit and truth. God prepared for Christ in these ways. They are things to embrace, not to throw mud at. I don't think that is right!
 

starfield

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2009
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#5
I don't understand how people can say they believe in Christ and God, but do not believe in anything that happened leading up to the earthly life and crucifixion of Christ. Do they actually think that Christ and God did not exist before He lived among us?

It seems to me that if we only know of God as He was after the crucifixion we can't really understand God, or even the NT telling us of the changes Christ made. If we don't understand what it was before, how can they know the changes.

People seem to be so afraid of their loving, wonderful Father. They say the people who love God the Father only love law keeping, they throw all kinds of mud at that knowing. The priests and their duties tell of our duties as priests. The feasts give God's plan for our world. The rituals are a ceremonial acting out of what God asks of us to do in spirit and truth. God prepared for Christ in these ways. They are things to embrace, not to throw mud at. I don't think that is right!
With all due respect, I've never seen any Christian here throw mud at the OT law. We acknowledge all that happened leading up to Christ's crucifixion but we believe that the law isn't the path to justification, but faith in the Lord Jesus.

Galatians 3:21-26
21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
 
Oct 31, 2011
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With all due respect, I've never seen any Christian here throw mud at the OT law. We acknowledge all that happened leading up to Christ's crucifixion but we believe that the law isn't the path to justification, but faith in the Lord Jesus.

Galatians 3:21-26
21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
Even the OT doesn't believe the law leads to justification. It was through blood, and blood from creation has always been the shadow of Christ's blood. I don't know what knowing that has to do with saying the Messianic Movement is false? I don't know of a church that knows Christ that teaches that it isn't God who justifies, do you? I am not familiar with Judaism but if they follow God's scripture in the OT, they would have to create something to believe in that isn't in scripture to actually think they could manage without forgiveness, or think they have that power in themselves.
 
Jul 25, 2013
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Interesting and tell me,...where did the name and spelling of JESUS come from my informed friend?
 
Dec 21, 2012
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#8
I don't understand how people can say they believe in Christ and God, but do not believe in anything that happened leading up to the earthly life and crucifixion of Christ. Do they actually think that Christ and God did not exist before He lived among us?

It seems to me that if we only know of God as He was after the crucifixion we can't really understand God, or even the NT telling us of the changes Christ made. If we don't understand what it was before, how can they know the changes.

People seem to be so afraid of their loving, wonderful Father. They say the people who love God the Father only love law keeping, they throw all kinds of mud at that knowing. The priests and their duties tell of our duties as priests. The feasts give God's plan for our world. The rituals are a ceremonial acting out of what God asks of us to do in spirit and truth. God prepared for Christ in these ways. They are things to embrace, not to throw mud at. I don't think that is right!
I'm the OP, this thread is about Messianics and not about Judaism or the Old Testament. As Christians, of course we should study the OT--for a full understanding of Heb 10 among many other reasons. If you like to study from a Jewish translation I think the JPS 1917 makes nice reading:

Hebrew Bible in English / Mechon-Mamre

and that Messianic translations like the Orthodox Jewish Bible or the Complete Jewish Bible are not really helpful.


Asher Norman, who is an Orthodox Jew explains:

26Reasons.com ~ The Problem

So-called "messianic Jews" are a particular problem because they often use highly deceptive practices. They falsely claim that it is possible to be both a Jew and a Christian. Leaders of so-called "messianic synagogues" pretend to be rabbis but are usually ordained Christian ministers. They deceitfully wear and utilize Jewish symbols and mimic Jewish services while worshiping Jesus.
There's no place for deceptive practices in Christianity.

Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
 
Jul 25, 2013
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#9
26Reasons.com ~ The Problem

So-called "messianic Jews" are a particular problem because they often use highly deceptivepractices. They falsely claim that it is possible to be both a Jew and a Christian. Leaders of so-called "messianic synagogues" pretend to be rabbis but are usually ordained Christian ministers. They deceitfully wear and utilize Jewish symbols and mimic Jewish services while worshiping Jesus.
/QUOTE
Asher Norman from /QUOTE Praus
If you are a Christian than according to Jesus you are a Jew. So how is this a false claim?
 
Dec 21, 2012
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#10
Interesting and tell me,...where did the name and spelling of JESUS come from my informed friend?
It's from the New Testament, where Jesus refers to Himself as Jesus. The Greek is Ἰησοῦς (Iēsous) to Latin Iesus to English Jesus.

ΑΠΟΚ 22:16 Ἐγὼ Ἰησοῦς ἔπεμψα τὸν ἄγγελόν μου μαρτυρῆσαι ὑμῖν ταῦτα ἐπὶ ταῖς ἐκκλησίαις. ἐγώ εἰμι ἡ ῥίζα καὶ τὸ γένος Δαυίδ, ὁ ἀστὴρ ὁ λαμπρός, ὁ πρωϊνός. (SBL Greek)

Apoc 22:16-18 ego Iesus misi angelum meum testificari vobis haec in ecclesiis ego sum radix et genus David stella splendida et matutina (Biblia Sacra Vulgata)

Rev 22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, [and] the bright and morning star. (KJV PCE)
 
Dec 21, 2012
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#11
26Reasons.com ~ The Problem

So-called "messianic Jews" are a particular problem because they often use highly deceptivepractices. They falsely claim that it is possible to be both a Jew and a Christian. Leaders of so-called "messianic synagogues" pretend to be rabbis but are usually ordained Christian ministers. They deceitfully wear and utilize Jewish symbols and mimic Jewish services while worshiping Jesus.
/QUOTE
Asher Norman from /QUOTE Praus
If you are a Christian than according to Jesus you are a Jew. So how is this a false claim?
I posted that Asher Norman is an Orthodox Jew, he doesn't follow the New Testament, so he uses the word Jew differently that we do.
 
Jul 25, 2013
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#12
[h=1]Jesus (name)[/h]From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


For other uses, see Jesus (disambiguation).
[TABLE="class: infobox, width: 22"]
[TR]
[TH="class: navbox-abovebelow, bgcolor: #DDDDFF, colspan: 2, align: center"]Jesus[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH]Pronunciation[/TH]
[TD]/ˈdʒiːzəs/[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH]Gender[/TH]
[TD]Male[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[TABLE="class: metadata mbox-small plainlinks, width: 238"]
[TR]
[TD="class: mbox-image, align: center"]
[/TD]
[TD="class: mbox-text plainlist"]Look up Jesus in Wiktionary, the free dictionary.[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
The proper name Jesus /ˈzəs/ used in the English language originates from the Latin form of the Greek name Ἰησοῦς (Iēsous), a rendition of the Hebrew Yeshua (ישוע), also having the variants Joshua or Jeshua.[SUP][1][/SUP][SUP][2][/SUP] In a religious context the name refers to Jesus, the central figure of Christianity.
Jesús is a popular personal name in the Hispanic Christian sphere of influence [SUP][3][/SUP] (where it is spelled with an accented 'u' Jesús and pronounced [xeˈsus]). In Mexico, persons with that name are often called by the nickname Chuy or Chucho, "Chuchin".
[h=2]Contents[/h] [hide]​


[h=2]Etymology and origins[edit][/h][h=3]Etymology[edit][/h]The word Jesus used in the New Testament comes from the Latin form of the Greek name Ἰησοῦς (Iēsous), a rendition of the Hebrew Yeshua (ישוע), also used as Joshua orYesua.[SUP][1][/SUP][SUP][2][/SUP] The name is thus related to the Hebrew consonantal verb root verb y-š-ʕ (to rescue or deliver) and the Hebrew noun yešuaʕ (deliverance).[SUP][4][/SUP] There have been a number of proposals as to the origin and etymological origin of the name Jesus (cf. Matthew 1:21). The name is related to the Hebrew form [Yehoshua`] יְהוֹשֻׁעַ Joshua, which is atheophoric name first mentioned within the Biblical tradition in Exodus 17:9. This name is usually considered to be a compound of two parts: יהו Yeho, a theophoric reference toYHWH, the name of the God of Israel, plus Hosea a form derived from the Hebrew triconsonantal root y-š-ʕ or י-ש-ע Numbers 13:16 "to liberate, save". There have been various proposals as to how the literal etymological meaning of the name should be translated, including: YHWH saves, (is) salvation, (is) a saving-cry, (is) a cry-for-saving, (is) a cry-for-help, (is) my help.[SUP][5][/SUP][SUP][6][/SUP][SUP][7][/SUP][SUP][8][/SUP][SUP][9][/SUP]
What I'm getting at is you mention in the OP about using other names than Jesus, when the other names came first so how can it be wrong?
I understand your post and the warnings you give for people to look out for, but using different names other than Jesus is certainly not unbiblical.

 

vic1980

Senior Member
Apr 25, 2013
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#13
The false messianic movement places great emphasis on Law-keeping. But they do not observed the entire Laws of the Commandments. They do not observe any of the laws demanding the death penalty.
I do not know much about this messianic movement, but Jesus took away the Death penalty that was require by the Law.
Good read tho :)

God bless
 
Oct 31, 2011
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#14
I'm the OP, this thread is about Messianics and not about Judaism or the Old Testament. As Christians, of course we should study the OT--for a full understanding of Heb 10 among many other reasons. If you like to study from a Jewish translation I think the JPS 1917 makes nice reading:
Hebrew Bible in English / Mechon-Mamre
and that Messianic translations like the Orthodox Jewish Bible or the Complete Jewish Bible are not really helpful.
Asher Norman, who is an Orthodox Jew explains:
There's no place for deceptive practices in Christianity.
Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
If it is about Messianics, then it is about people who believe in the NT and everything it says, and also believe in the OT. You are making statements about them that are untrue. "deceptive" for instance. Believing in works for salvation for another. When I defend and bring out truths, you are telling me to study Judaism? Why? I am not a member of a Messianic of Hebrew Roots church, but I have read enough about them to know you are not telling the truth about them. I also think that we need to have a good understanding of the OT, that it will help us understand all Christ means to us. I think that when you tell such things about this study that you are harming the kingdom of God.

If someone posted how you must be careful of all we are taught about the changes the Christ made in our world by the cross, it would be right for you to defend that. You are making a fuss about people learning as much as they can about the world before the cross as well and in addition to all the cross means.
 
Dec 21, 2012
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#15
There have been a number of proposals as to the origin and etymological origin of the name Jesus (cf. Matthew 1:21). The name is related to the Hebrew form [Yehoshua`] יְהוֹשֻׁעַ Joshua, which is atheophoric name first mentioned within the Biblical tradition in Exodus 17:9.

What I'm getting at is you mention in the OP about using other names than Jesus, when the other names came first so how can it be wrong?
I understand your post and the warnings you give for people to look out for, but using different names other than Jesus is certainly not unbiblical.
So then is it Yeshua or Yehoshua? Both of the following are Messianic Bible translations, which one is wrong?

Hisgalus 22:16 “I, Yehoshua sent My malach (angel) to give solemn eidus (testimony) to you of these things, for the Kehillot. I am the Shoresh (root) and the offspring of Dovid, the Kokhav HaShachar. (Orthodox Jewish Bible)

Rev 22:16 “I, Yeshua, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the Messianic communities. I am the Root and Offspring of David, the bright Morning Star. (Complete Jewish Bible)
 
Dec 21, 2012
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#16
I do not know much about this messianic movement, but Jesus took away the Death penalty that was require by the Law.
Good read tho :)

God bless
GBU brother Vic.

Jesus took away a lot of things, not just the death penalty. The NT tells us which laws still apply (
Luke 10:26-28, Rom 13:8-10, Acts 15:19-20, etc.)

The Apostle Paul
warned us very specifically about trying to interpret the OT law for ourselves instead of letting the NT do it for us.

Gal 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed [is] every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
 
D

Davonson

Guest
#17
It's a pointless argument, Messianic Jews are our brothers and sisters. If it wasn't the first Jews that believed in Messiah( Emmanuel) in Israel, no gentile would have a clue of the roots of Jesus that he came from, a Jewish family and a tribe of kings/ priests.
 

TheAristocat

Senior Member
Oct 4, 2011
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#18
2.) They reject the name of Jesus as the name of a pig god and begin using Yahweh, Yahshua, or Yeshua;
3.) They begin sabbath keeping and damn all who worship on sunday;
I am a Messianic Jew. And since I'm rather familiar with it I'd like to caution you not to confuse Messianic Judaism with the Messianic movement. There are some Gentiles who call themselves Messianic, which essentially means that they identify with the Judeo-Christian God and observe his Torah. Some of them believe in the literal Gospel - others don't. So the Messianic movement is very broadly defined. And it is not Messianic Judaism. You can look up the statement of faith for Messianic Judaism.

But some of the accusations in this post are referring to what is commonly known as a sacred name cult. I met a couple people from one of these cults once. They did not believe in the literal Gospel, and there were a great many of their beliefs that even an unbelieving Jew would take issue with. The use of the descriptive term such as "pig god" to describe the Anglicized name of Yeshua (i.e. Jesus) is also part of their jargon. Because the cult focuses on the original names of God there can be some hard feelings in their crowd associated with anything that "usurps" those original names. But make no mistake - Yeshua was his original name. So just cautioning you on that point. Messianic Judaism does not necessarily equal the Messianic movement. The Messianic movement is so broad of a term that it may include Gospel-believing Messianic Jews. But they're not the same.
 
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Dec 21, 2012
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#19
It's a pointless argument, Messianic Jews are our brothers and sisters.
My next thread will be more compelling.

If it wasn't the first Jews that believed in Messiah( Emmanuel) in Israel,
Matt 3:1 In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea, ... 9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to [our] father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.

no gentile would have a clue of the roots of Jesus that he came from, a Jewish family and a tribe of kings/ priests.
:confused: Luke the Evangelist didn't have a clue?

Luke the Evangelist - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Luke the Evangelist is one of the Four Evangelists or authors of canonical Gospels of Jesus Christ
. Luke was a native of the Hellenistic city of Antioch in Syria. The early church fathers ascribed to him authorship of both the Gospel according to Luke and the book of Acts of the Apostles, which originally formed a single literary work.

Luke was a Greco-Syrian physician who lived in the Greek city of Antioch in Ancient Syria.
 
Dec 21, 2012
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If it is about Messianics, then it is about people who believe in the NT and everything it says, and also believe in the OT. You are making statements about them that are untrue. "deceptive" for instance. Believing in works for salvation for another. When I defend and bring out truths, you are telling me to study Judaism? Why? I am not a member of a Messianic of Hebrew Roots church, but I have read enough about them to know you are not telling the truth about them. I also think that we need to have a good understanding of the OT, that it will help us understand all Christ means to us. I think that when you tell such things about this study that you are harming the kingdom of God.

If someone posted how you must be careful of all we are taught about the changes the Christ made in our world by the cross, it would be right for you to defend that. You are making a fuss about people learning as much as they can about the world before the cross as well and in addition to all the cross means.
Can you be more specific, what is the "truth about them" that you've read?