Why conservatives should embrace Obamacare conceptually.

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1still_waters

Guest
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To a certain extent, conservatives should embrace Obamacare conceptually.
You are probably wondering why I would say such a thing.
Let's take a look at the list of no win scenarios concerning healthcare and insurance.

1. The way it was before Obamacare.(The status quo.) Those who are uninsured get treatment, but they don't pay for it. They get a free ride. then those costs get passed on to those with insurance, through higher premiums, costs, etc.

2. Single payer system. Under this system the government covers all. Those who pay taxes, feel the sting of having to pay for it. Those who don't pay taxes still get healthcare, but they don't actually pay for it or understand it's being paid for. They get a free ride.

3.Obamacare. EVERYONE must pay for insurance to some extent. EVERYONE has skin in the game. NONE can get away thinking health insurance is totally free.

We're really stuck with three or so no win situations. Only one of the situations does away with people thinking healthcare is "free stuff".

I agree that it's government overreach to force people to purchase healthcare. Obamacare is also raising rates and such.

Yet conceptually, it's the only option that seems to force people away from thinking everything is FREE. The people who voted for Obama, because they wanted free stuff are now being forced to pay, to some extent, for the free stuff they thought Obama promised them.
 
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AgeofKnowledge

Guest
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Yes but we're almost at a point where China and foreign lenders won't let us borrow anymore money to fund our massive deficit spending which was $1.2 trillion a year that has spiraled our national debt up to almost $20 trillion (when you include general liabilities it's far far higher).

So in about a decade, we'll be down to printing money out of thin air to cover it. Are you familiar with the draconian consequences of the concept in economics named "hyperinflation"?
 
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KeeganGentle

Guest
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#3
Unfortunately as much as I dislike Obama as president, these spending habits proceeded him. The debt was massive and mounting before he was elected. And looks to be closing on a point where it would be beyond repair.

-A foreigner with interests in US politics-
 
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1still_waters

Guest
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Did anyone read the post? :p
 
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AgeofKnowledge

Guest
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Read this article: Money Printing Isn’t Always Inflationary — The American Magazine

It explains why we aren't seeing hyperinflation currently occurring with the enormous amount of "printing" that's already occurring apart from the public money supply (though hidden inflation has occurred in the U.S.). Then understand the article doesn't take into account other long term factors that range from rapidly increasing debt to foreign governments, a spiraling national debt (yes it really does matter) that eventually soars so high the currency is abandoned by investors domestically and abroad with devastating consequence, foreign debt holders dumping their existing dollars for another currency, etc... and many other factors that eventually do result in rapid currency devaluation.
 
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1still_waters

Guest
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#6
This post isn't about hyper inflation or anything like that.

It's simply stating that Obamacare forces the "I want my free stuff" crowd, to actually pay for the free stuff. And that given the other approaches to health insurance, at least they're confronted with this fact.

I have the feeling that when the word "Obama" is uttered, some jump right to some Pavlovian response where they talk economics, or morals, or whatever, even if those things weren't even part of the topic raised.


Yes Obama stinks for morals, and economics and lots of other things.
But that's not really the point I'm making.
 
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KeeganGentle

Guest
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#7
The concept infringes of free rights, but to your point, part of the concept is acceptable. But another part is rubish.
 
RickyZ

RickyZ

Senior Member
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Sep 20, 2012
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I think the fine for not obtaining insurance is $90. Not free but certainly cheap, considering these people will still get health care, if only thru the overburdened Emergency Rooms.

What I don't get is that conservatives want Obama to fail (that's what's behind all of their actions these days, not the health of the country but the forced failure of an elected President they don't like). And they claim ObamaRomneyCare is doomed to fail big time. So why don't they just get out of the way and let it fail? Because they secretly know it won't.
 
Grace-Like-Rain

Grace-Like-Rain

Senior Member
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Sep 6, 2013
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RickyZ said:
I think the fine for not obtaining insurance is $90. Not free but certainly cheap, considering these people will still get health care, if only thru the overburdened Emergency Rooms.
Click to expand...
That's the fine for the FIRST year. After that it is raised considerably. I can't remember the exact amount but I seem to remember that it was over $1000. I do not pretend to know the ins and outs of how Obamacare could really help us, and I'm interested to see. My objection is being forced to purchase insurance. If people can't afford insurance, then PEOPLE CAN'T AFFORD INSURANCE. How is forcing them supposed to solve the problem? This is going to kill the middle class.
 
RickyZ

RickyZ

Senior Member
#10
Sep 20, 2012
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I looked it up and here are the figures:

Less than $9,500 income = $0
$9,500 - $37,000 income = $695
$50,000 income = $1,000
$75,000 income = $1,600
$100,000 income = $2,250
$125,000 income = $2,900
$150,000 income = $3,500
$175,000 income = $4,100
$200,000 income = $4,700
Over $200,000 = The cost of a "bronze" health-insurance plan

These are for individuals in the year 2016, when the fines reach their maximum. Families may be liable for up to 3 times that figure.

One can question whether these figures are affordable. It may seem unfair to force people to buy insurance, but the alternative is to force others to pay for your health care if you don't. Is it fair that my medical costs are double what they should be because you don't want to be part of the system? Why should I be forced to pay for your care, if you're not forced to do so? Somebody somewhere is going to be forced to pay. What about the conservative mandate for personal responsibility?

This will not kill the middle class. Income inequality is what is killing the middle class, and what is making it so hard to afford health care. If the middle class had not given up 30+ years of raises, these figures and the whole debate would be moot.









source: How Much Is The Obamacare Penalty Tax? - Business Insider
 
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AgeofKnowledge

Guest
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I see now the specific point you were aiming at. My Pavlovian response kicked in when I saw the word Obama. Lol!

1still_waters said:
This post isn't about hyper inflation or anything like that.

It's simply stating that Obamacare forces the "I want my free stuff" crowd, to actually pay for the free stuff. And that given the other approaches to health insurance, at least they're confronted with this fact.

I have the feeling that when the word "Obama" is uttered, some jump right to some Pavlovian response where they talk economics, or morals, or whatever, even if those things weren't even part of the topic raised.


Yes Obama stinks for morals, and economics and lots of other things.
But that's not really the point I'm making.
Click to expand...
 
C

chatter23

Banned
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Oct 12, 2013
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So you are for Oboma? He is a communist and is trying to bring this country down.
oh you unaware person.
 
R

Relena7

Guest
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I'm not conservative or liberal, but I don't agree with Obamacare. It's not that I want a free ride. I just don't want to be forced to pay for a ticket for a ride that I'm not going to be getting on in the first place.

I can't even afford this stuff. I honestly have no idea what is going to happen to me.
 
Grace-Like-Rain

Grace-Like-Rain

Senior Member
#14
Sep 6, 2013
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RickyZ said:
One can question whether these figures are affordable. It may seem unfair to force people to buy insurance, but the alternative is to force others to pay for your health care if you don't. Is it fair that my medical costs are double what they should be because you don't want to be part of the system? Why should I be forced to pay for your care, if you're not forced to do so? Somebody somewhere is going to be forced to pay. What about the conservative mandate for personal responsibility?
Click to expand...
How is me not having insurance costing you anything? I pay out of pocket when I need to see a doctor (which is very rare). Are you talking about people who are on medicaid or medicare? Because they are not middle class.
 
p_rehbein

p_rehbein

Senior Member
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Sep 4, 2013
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I'm going to read through all of these comments, and the OP, but let me say that I'm surprised to see a "Political" based thread here..........I posted a couple, and they disappeared rather quickly leaving me to believe that political commentary was not acceptable on CC.....And, that was ok with me, but now I see that well, maybe we can discuss Politics...........yes?

:)
 
p_rehbein

p_rehbein

Senior Member
#16
Sep 4, 2013
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QUOTE FROM OP:

3.Obamacare. EVERYONE must pay for insurance to some extent. EVERYONE has skin in the game. NONE can get away thinking health insurance is totally free.

END QUOTE.......

Will have to do some more research I guess, but, as I understand Obamacare, people whose gross annual income is below a certain rate WILL NOT have "skin in the game." They will receive the benefits of Obamacare free........but, that could be wrong, will have to do more research...........This whole thing isn't exactly EASY to read through and understand.......but, then, it is Politispeak...........so.
 
p_rehbein

p_rehbein

Senior Member
#17
Sep 4, 2013
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......shoot.........didn't mean to be the "thread killer......."

:)
 
RickyZ

RickyZ

Senior Member
#19
Sep 20, 2012
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Grace-Like-Rain said:
How is me not having insurance costing you anything? I pay out of pocket when I need to see a doctor (which is very rare). Are you talking about people who are on medicaid or medicare? Because they are not middle class.
Click to expand...
How about that car wreck that leaves you with $50k in expenses? And you're not too young for a cancer, do you know what that stuff costs? If that's pocket change for you, then girl you got my permission to tell Obummer where to stick his health plan. But my guess is that it's not, and that's why a hospital aspirin costs $15.
 
RickyZ

RickyZ

Senior Member
#20
Sep 20, 2012
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chatter23 said:
So you are for Oboma? He is a communist and is trying to bring this country down.
oh you unaware person.
Click to expand...
Oh it's worse than that, he's one of a long line of 'rulers' who will eventually bring this world down. Be aware of that.
 
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