The Original Pentecostal Movement
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Now the man with the blog also posted this
Talking Pentecostalism
[h=3]Positive characteristics of Pentecostalism[/h]
There are many positive characteristics of the Pentecostal movement. J. I. Paker, in Keep in Step with the Spirit, gave 12 positive characteristics of the charismatic movement, providing a good basis for a summary of the key strengths of Pentecostalism. I've taken these and here paraphrased and adapted each from my perspective and for the purpose of providing a short overview of the features of Pentecostalism that we can all learn from.
1. Bible-based
Regardless of the degree to which one individual or another relies upon the Bible, mainstream Pentecostals fiercely believe that the Bible is the Word of God, and sincerely desire to hold to its teaching. Pentecostalism is Trinitarian and holds to all the key elements of the Christian gospel. The stress on the Holy Spirit's ministry does not displace Jesus from centre-stage as God's Son, our redeemer and coming king.
2. Spirit-dependent
Pentecostals stress that the Christian life is supernatural, in that Christ through his Spirit enables believers to do what by nature they could never do themselves. They insist that the Spirit's work did not end at Pentecost. His role is essential in repentance, faith, sanctification and enabling and empowering Christian service.
3. Emotional
Pentecostals believe in the God who can be experienced in his speaking and acting today. They place importance on the emotional element within humanity and Christianity. What makes Pentecostals more demonstrative is not a lack of reverance for God, but a sincere desire to experience God and a passionate love of the Lord Jesus and christian people.
4. Prayerful
Pentecostals are typically devoted to cultivating a constant, wholehearted habit of prayer. Tongues-speaking is often used as a personal prayer language for voicing petitions and praise to God, and generally for long periods at a time. Those who do not pray so much have little right to criticize how Pentecostals pray in this regard.
5. Joyful
Pentecostalism is a movement with celebration at its heart and joy evident in its people. They endeavour to rejoice and praise God at all times and in all places, and their commitment to thanksgiving often shines bright in their behaviour also.
Talking Pentecostalism: Positive characteristics of Pentecostalism
Talking Pentecostalism
[h=3]Positive characteristics of Pentecostalism[/h]
There are many positive characteristics of the Pentecostal movement. J. I. Paker, in Keep in Step with the Spirit, gave 12 positive characteristics of the charismatic movement, providing a good basis for a summary of the key strengths of Pentecostalism. I've taken these and here paraphrased and adapted each from my perspective and for the purpose of providing a short overview of the features of Pentecostalism that we can all learn from.
1. Bible-based
Regardless of the degree to which one individual or another relies upon the Bible, mainstream Pentecostals fiercely believe that the Bible is the Word of God, and sincerely desire to hold to its teaching. Pentecostalism is Trinitarian and holds to all the key elements of the Christian gospel. The stress on the Holy Spirit's ministry does not displace Jesus from centre-stage as God's Son, our redeemer and coming king.
2. Spirit-dependent
Pentecostals stress that the Christian life is supernatural, in that Christ through his Spirit enables believers to do what by nature they could never do themselves. They insist that the Spirit's work did not end at Pentecost. His role is essential in repentance, faith, sanctification and enabling and empowering Christian service.
3. Emotional
Pentecostals believe in the God who can be experienced in his speaking and acting today. They place importance on the emotional element within humanity and Christianity. What makes Pentecostals more demonstrative is not a lack of reverance for God, but a sincere desire to experience God and a passionate love of the Lord Jesus and christian people.
4. Prayerful
Pentecostals are typically devoted to cultivating a constant, wholehearted habit of prayer. Tongues-speaking is often used as a personal prayer language for voicing petitions and praise to God, and generally for long periods at a time. Those who do not pray so much have little right to criticize how Pentecostals pray in this regard.
5. Joyful
Pentecostalism is a movement with celebration at its heart and joy evident in its people. They endeavour to rejoice and praise God at all times and in all places, and their commitment to thanksgiving often shines bright in their behaviour also.
Talking Pentecostalism: Positive characteristics of Pentecostalism
Cont
6. Worshipful
Pentecostalism is a movement striving to engage with God, collectively and individually. Their meetings seek to coorporately and actively lift up hearts and minds to God. If raising eyes and hands heavenward helps them do just that, this too should not be disputed. Pentecostals sincerely desire to glorify God in all of their lives, work, rest and play.
7. Ministry-minded
Pentecostalism is renown for its ability to enlist the active service of every part of the church. They deny that preaching alone can grow a church to maturity, but is given to equip every believer to serve the church. Meaningful mutual ministry is the job not only of pastors, leaders and elders, but also of every member of the body of Christ.
8. Evangelistic
From its origin Pentecostalism has been vigorously evangelistic and outreach-orientated. Pentecostals are passionately concerned to share Christ, and their determination, perseverence, faith, boldness, and innovation is exemplary. Massive portions of the world's population today know Christ and would otherwise not if not for the missionary zeal of Pentecostals.
9. Empowering
Pentecostalism has been extremely committed to discipleship and training, and the movement of growing numbers of large communities has maintained its spiritual vitality over the long stretch of time in part thanks to their harnessing the power of small group ministry.
10. Dynamic
Pentecostalism has a long history of empowering leaders who have created a cultural movement of dynamic and innovative leadership. They embrace change to adapt to new trends and create functional church structures. Pentecostalism has been progressive in seeking to stay relevant to contemporary society, demonstrated in their ability to use marketing, technology, music and events management to enhance the appeal of their message.
11. Community minded
Pentecostal communities are more often wholistic in their expression of community life. They are culturally sensitive and express their commitment to the family nucleus, forging new relationships in order to outreach to needy individuals and groups within their neighbourhoods and society.
12. Generous
Sacrificial giving is a predominant aspect of church life and Christian worship in Pentecostalism. Sponteneity, warmth and rich hospitality overflows in relationships with one another. Expectancy to give till it hurts and count the experience as a priviledge is part of what it means to share in true Christian commitment.
Learning from Pentecostalism
None of these strengths are unique to Pentecostalism in practice. Historically, new movements like Pentecostalism emerge as a cultural shift in order to remedy the deficiencies of past movements. Whatever may be said of Pentecostalism, there can be no doubt that any one of its positive characteristics should provide a challenge to many a section or another of the wider church; together they provide a monumental reminder of how far we all have go to live up to all that God would have his Church to be.
Talking Pentecostalism: Positive characteristics of Pentecostalism
6. Worshipful
Pentecostalism is a movement striving to engage with God, collectively and individually. Their meetings seek to coorporately and actively lift up hearts and minds to God. If raising eyes and hands heavenward helps them do just that, this too should not be disputed. Pentecostals sincerely desire to glorify God in all of their lives, work, rest and play.
7. Ministry-minded
Pentecostalism is renown for its ability to enlist the active service of every part of the church. They deny that preaching alone can grow a church to maturity, but is given to equip every believer to serve the church. Meaningful mutual ministry is the job not only of pastors, leaders and elders, but also of every member of the body of Christ.
8. Evangelistic
From its origin Pentecostalism has been vigorously evangelistic and outreach-orientated. Pentecostals are passionately concerned to share Christ, and their determination, perseverence, faith, boldness, and innovation is exemplary. Massive portions of the world's population today know Christ and would otherwise not if not for the missionary zeal of Pentecostals.
9. Empowering
Pentecostalism has been extremely committed to discipleship and training, and the movement of growing numbers of large communities has maintained its spiritual vitality over the long stretch of time in part thanks to their harnessing the power of small group ministry.
10. Dynamic
Pentecostalism has a long history of empowering leaders who have created a cultural movement of dynamic and innovative leadership. They embrace change to adapt to new trends and create functional church structures. Pentecostalism has been progressive in seeking to stay relevant to contemporary society, demonstrated in their ability to use marketing, technology, music and events management to enhance the appeal of their message.
11. Community minded
Pentecostal communities are more often wholistic in their expression of community life. They are culturally sensitive and express their commitment to the family nucleus, forging new relationships in order to outreach to needy individuals and groups within their neighbourhoods and society.
12. Generous
Sacrificial giving is a predominant aspect of church life and Christian worship in Pentecostalism. Sponteneity, warmth and rich hospitality overflows in relationships with one another. Expectancy to give till it hurts and count the experience as a priviledge is part of what it means to share in true Christian commitment.
Learning from Pentecostalism
None of these strengths are unique to Pentecostalism in practice. Historically, new movements like Pentecostalism emerge as a cultural shift in order to remedy the deficiencies of past movements. Whatever may be said of Pentecostalism, there can be no doubt that any one of its positive characteristics should provide a challenge to many a section or another of the wider church; together they provide a monumental reminder of how far we all have go to live up to all that God would have his Church to be.
Talking Pentecostalism: Positive characteristics of Pentecostalism
what? oh my.
the claims are to be taken seriously when this is supposedly the ['reformed'] reason for the 2nd blessing in the first place?
reformed once, from sinless perfection cuz that didn't work out.
then reformed again, after real languages didn't pan out.
"tongues-speaking is often used as a personal prayer language for voicing petitions and praise to God" - well, really? like how do you know, since you do not know what you're praying.
nonsense.
the claims are to be taken seriously when this is supposedly the ['reformed'] reason for the 2nd blessing in the first place?
reformed once, from sinless perfection cuz that didn't work out.
then reformed again, after real languages didn't pan out.
"tongues-speaking is often used as a personal prayer language for voicing petitions and praise to God" - well, really? like how do you know, since you do not know what you're praying.
nonsense.
sooooo.....your trustworthy authoritative sites wouldn't assist with that? whatchu want ppl to do to unnerstand ya? just take yer words for everything? how do you actually teach? any sources?
or do you mean that's why you're bothering to monitor the thread
- for the slash, thrash, bash & trash.
lol....anyways...stephen, while you're here:
per rick's posts earlier, when you speak in tongues, is it a real language of real people from another country you haven't been to yet? if not, is there any possible way you could even post one official link that is trustworthy and authoritative that says tongues was always a private prayer language that nobody understands?
hopefully showing dat from The Acts the Apostles (who by all appearances normally spoke clearly and boldly and ppl understood them?)...like maybe peter said something about tongues, like today's. or john...or Jesus.
because i can understand John 17 okay. mind you, men translated it from greek and stuff.
okay thanks then.
or do you mean that's why you're bothering to monitor the thread
- for the slash, thrash, bash & trash.lol....anyways...stephen, while you're here:
per rick's posts earlier, when you speak in tongues, is it a real language of real people from another country you haven't been to yet? if not, is there any possible way you could even post one official link that is trustworthy and authoritative that says tongues was always a private prayer language that nobody understands?
hopefully showing dat from The Acts the Apostles (who by all appearances normally spoke clearly and boldly and ppl understood them?)...like maybe peter said something about tongues, like today's. or john...or Jesus.
because i can understand John 17 okay. mind you, men translated it from greek and stuff.
okay thanks then.
Originally Posted by SarahM777
4. Prayerful
Pentecostals are typically devoted to cultivating a constant, wholehearted habit of prayer. Tongues-speaking is often used as a personal prayer language for voicing petitions and praise to God, and generally for long periods at a time. Those who do not pray so much have little right to criticize how Pentecostals pray in this regard.
4. Prayerful
Pentecostals are typically devoted to cultivating a constant, wholehearted habit of prayer. Tongues-speaking is often used as a personal prayer language for voicing petitions and praise to God, and generally for long periods at a time. Those who do not pray so much have little right to criticize how Pentecostals pray in this regard.
John 14:[SUP]13 [/SUP]And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. [SUP]14 [/SUP]If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.
Therefore God's gift of tongues is of other men's lips to speak unto the people: that is all it can be so that in testing the spirits, they will know the supernatural tongue that comes with no interpretation but babbling nonsense is not of Him at all.
2 Timothy 2:[SUP]16 [/SUP]But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness....[SUP]24 [/SUP]And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, [SUP]25 [/SUP]In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; [SUP]26 [/SUP]And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will
You are correct that you will not find the exact phrase "Baptism of the Holy Ghost" But what you will find in the below passages is something subsequent to water baptism. I am giving you the verse only, but as we all do, please read the entire passage to keep everything in context, so we don't fall into the you are out of context games
Matt 3.11
Mark 1.8
Luke 3.16
Acts 1.5
Acts 11.16
Acts 19.1-7
Again, the exact term is not in these passage and you should read them in context, just not the verses I listed. Certain Theology states the Baptism of the Holy Ghost is received at salvation or during water baptism and these scriptures clearly show, that the Baptism of the Holy Ghost or the Holy Ghost came upon them is a distinct and separate event, subsequent to salvation and water baptism.
Matt 3.11
Mark 1.8
Luke 3.16
Acts 1.5
Acts 11.16
Acts 19.1-7
Again, the exact term is not in these passage and you should read them in context, just not the verses I listed. Certain Theology states the Baptism of the Holy Ghost is received at salvation or during water baptism and these scriptures clearly show, that the Baptism of the Holy Ghost or the Holy Ghost came upon them is a distinct and separate event, subsequent to salvation and water baptism.
I guess you missed my post #242 where I brought out the context of some of these scriptures erroneously used to support a second Baptism, secondary to salvation.
I didn't go through all of the above, but perhaps I should leave that to you? I have read all the book of Acts about 50 times, including in Greek. I have also studied in depth this false doctrine of a second baptism including all the verses above.
But perhaps you would like to go through them and show us how it works. Or maybe I will just do it myself.
So we get saved, but basically are without the help of God, because the Holy Spirit has not yet entered us and blessed us? Just wondering how you would know you are even saved, without the Paraclete to comfort, help, advocate or any of the other words the modern translations use for the Paraclete?
As for Acts 19:1-7
"And it happened that while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul passed through the inland country and came to Ephesus. There he found some disciples. [SUP]2 [/SUP]And he said to them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?” And they said, “No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.” [SUP]3 [/SUP]And he said, “Into what then were you baptized?” They said, “Into John's baptism.” [SUP]4 [/SUP]And Paul said, “John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in the one who was to come after him, that is, Jesus.” [SUP]5 [/SUP]On hearing this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. [SUP]6 [/SUP]And when Paul had laid his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they began speaking in tongues and prophesying. [SUP]7 [/SUP]There were about twelve men in all." Acts 19:1-7
So they had believed John, who was killed long before Jesus died and rose from the dead. Paul says clearly John says that John told the people to believe in the one who was to come.
While John was in prison, awaiting his death, he was STILL not sure if Jesus was the one, despite baptizing him and seeing the dove descend and hearing the voice of the Father. He sent his disciples to ask his cousin again.
"and said to him, “Are you the one who is to come, or shall we look for another?” Matt 11:3.
Jesus told him he was, but John never baptized another person after that. He never knew the whole gospel - that Jesus would die on the cross for our sins. So these people were baptized by John well before John was even certain Jesus was the "one" let alone what would happen on Calvary and Easter Sunday morning.
So Paul is explaining to these people who had John's baptism of repentance, what the gospel is. Then they were baptized and spoke in tongues and prophesied. I have no problem with this Biblical example of the gifts of tongues and prophesying. That was one of the miracles that occurred in the book of Acts! Does that mean it happens that way today?
Probably not, as there are actually 5 examples of this, and in one case this miracle was for the Jews, to let them know the Gentiles could also be saved and have the indwelling Holy Spirit. This is known as a miracle which furthered the cause of the gospel, because this event at Cornelius's house opened the door to preaching the gospel to Gentiles.
"While Peter was still saying these things, the Holy Spirit fell on all who heard the word. [SUP]45 [/SUP]And the believers from among the circumcised who had come with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit was poured out even on the Gentiles. [SUP]46 [/SUP]For they were hearing them speaking in tongues and extolling God. Then Peter declared, [SUP]47 [/SUP]“Can anyone withhold water for baptizing these people, who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?” [SUP]48 [/SUP]And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to remain for some days." Acts. 10:44-48.
Also notice in the passage above, the formula that modern Pentecostal Churches adhere to was broken. No laying on of hands, not even water baptized. Because God did not want this phenomena to become a ritual, he allowed the Gentiles to receive the blessings of God, in order that the Gentiles could become permanent members of the church. Interesting how only 5 chapters later, Peter is demanding that these Gentiles needed to be circumcised, having been influenced not by God but by the Judaisers. Paul had to come to Jerusalem for the Council, and forbid them to place this yoke on the Gentiles - the yoke of the law.
I still do not see in any of the verses you posted where there is a formula called "The Baptism of the Holy Spirit" which applies to the church in the future or today. Nor any continuity between the book of Acts and the movement which started at the end of the 19th, beginning of the 20th century.
U
The answer to this question can only be speculated ... but must not add to or take away from what scripture says regarding the twelve apostles of the Lamb. Scripture does not say ... the original twelve ... or the first twelve ... or the most important twelve etc. etc. It says what it says .... the twelve. If I had to go out on a limb and guess, and this would only be me guessing, I would think the apostle Paul. I say this because it was Paul who was also "hand-picked", so to speak, by Jesus Christ Himself. We'll know once we're in the Lord's presence. Let that suffice.
You are correct that you will not find the exact phrase "Baptism of the Holy Ghost" But what you will find in the below passages is something subsequent to water baptism. I am giving you the verse only, but as we all do, please read the entire passage to keep everything in context, so we don't fall into the you are out of context games
Matt 3.11
Mark 1.8
Luke 3.16
Acts 1.5
Acts 11.16
Acts 19.1-7
Again, the exact term is not in these passage and you should read them in context, just not the verses I listed. Certain Theology states the Baptism of the Holy Ghost is received at salvation or during water baptism and these scriptures clearly show, that the Baptism of the Holy Ghost or the Holy Ghost came upon them is a distinct and separate event, subsequent to salvation and water baptism.
Matt 3.11
Mark 1.8
Luke 3.16
Acts 1.5
Acts 11.16
Acts 19.1-7
Again, the exact term is not in these passage and you should read them in context, just not the verses I listed. Certain Theology states the Baptism of the Holy Ghost is received at salvation or during water baptism and these scriptures clearly show, that the Baptism of the Holy Ghost or the Holy Ghost came upon them is a distinct and separate event, subsequent to salvation and water baptism.
His ministry created many disciples in following after John the Baptist.
Acts 19:1-7 was Paul encountering those "certain" disciples, but he knew not what. When they did not know anything about the Holy Ghost, he had asked what water baptism they were identified with. John the Baptist's. These were not believers in Jesus Christ. That was why Paul told them about Jesus Chrust, then they believed, got baptised in His name, & got saved.
Evidence that John had disciples are here:
Matthew 9:14Then came to him the disciples of John, saying, Why do we and the Pharisees fast oft, but thy disciples fast not?
Matthee 11:2Now when John had heard in the prison the works of Christ, he sent two of his disciples,
So that was why it was written "certain" disciples, as they were not ascertain yet what kind of disciples they were.
So there really is only one baptism with the Holy Spirit given at our salvation when we come to & believe in Jesus Christ. That glory of God is not to be repeated at any other time in a believer's life for that would be giving another calling, and impying that there is another drink of the one Spirit.
This is post is either an ironic post from God condemning you or cross posting.
Perhaps you should have read posts 343 and 344 by Sarah, citing all the GOOD things about the Pentecostal movement, some of which I have to agree, esp. their missionary passion.
But it does confirm Stephen, that you are not reading the posts and also reposting some of your paranoia. The one post on narcissism comes to mind, which I see to recall reading this summer when I was on Vancouver Island on my July vacation.
If you don't like the person, you accuse them of personality disorders?
What ever happened to quoting the Bible? Or posting links that refute what other members have said? Seems like you either don't want to do the research, or you don't care about the truth.
And just so you know, there are Baptist denominations in Canada which ordain women. The extremely fundamentalist Southern Baptists are a small denomination in Canada. If you want to hear about a denomination with scandals and take-overs, I would advise you to read Leo MacBeth's The Baptist Heritage. Quite an eye opener in a Southern Baptist Seminary for me!
But of course, we Canadians are a bit to left wing and liberal for the Americans. They just cut off funding a few years ago for our Seminary. Said reasons were to "help us grow up." But likely it was more because of our more tolerant and liberal interpretations of the Bible. My profs were all incredible. They encouraged women in ministry and many are employed by that convention to do evangelism especially among immigrants. And those women are establishing new congregations left and right.
I am not in that convention anymore, but they are good people. When I move though, I am going to the convention that ordains women. Just because I get so tired of hearing the rhetoric and false interpretations of the Bible on this matter.
Sorry, got off topic again!
Perhaps you should have read posts 343 and 344 by Sarah, citing all the GOOD things about the Pentecostal movement, some of which I have to agree, esp. their missionary passion.
But it does confirm Stephen, that you are not reading the posts and also reposting some of your paranoia. The one post on narcissism comes to mind, which I see to recall reading this summer when I was on Vancouver Island on my July vacation.
If you don't like the person, you accuse them of personality disorders?
What ever happened to quoting the Bible? Or posting links that refute what other members have said? Seems like you either don't want to do the research, or you don't care about the truth.
And just so you know, there are Baptist denominations in Canada which ordain women. The extremely fundamentalist Southern Baptists are a small denomination in Canada. If you want to hear about a denomination with scandals and take-overs, I would advise you to read Leo MacBeth's The Baptist Heritage. Quite an eye opener in a Southern Baptist Seminary for me!
But of course, we Canadians are a bit to left wing and liberal for the Americans. They just cut off funding a few years ago for our Seminary. Said reasons were to "help us grow up." But likely it was more because of our more tolerant and liberal interpretations of the Bible. My profs were all incredible. They encouraged women in ministry and many are employed by that convention to do evangelism especially among immigrants. And those women are establishing new congregations left and right.
I am not in that convention anymore, but they are good people. When I move though, I am going to the convention that ordains women. Just because I get so tired of hearing the rhetoric and false interpretations of the Bible on this matter.
Sorry, got off topic again!
So the part of the scripture that said Mattias was the twelfth apostle-(which he was, he sat with the apostles in Jerusalem), is suddenly null and void by the thirteenth?
Or was Paul not an apostle also?
Which is it? Either you have the apostles in error or you have thirteen apostles.
Now, why are there but twelve foundations to the new Jerusalem?
Any ideas?
If the written Word is that which is perfect to show us God face to face, how is it there are but twelve foundations, yet at least thirteen apostles?
Or was Paul not an apostle also?
Which is it? Either you have the apostles in error or you have thirteen apostles.
Now, why are there but twelve foundations to the new Jerusalem?
Any ideas?
If the written Word is that which is perfect to show us God face to face, how is it there are but twelve foundations, yet at least thirteen apostles?
Last edited:
U
Yes ... I have an idea. Perhaps the twelfth name on the twelfth foundational pillar actually is Mattias ... and I guessed wrong the first time (quite possible ... perhaps even probable). And maybe Paul, being the apostle to the gentiles was just that. The apostle to the gentiles. As I said in my previous post, the answer to your question can only be speculated. And I certainly wouldn't conclude this to mean that we have many apostles amongst us today (mostly pentecostals, by chance) because we simply can't say either Paul or Mattias with certainty in regards to the twelve foundational pillars/the twelve apostles of the Lamb. Maybe the following contains the answer. It really doesn't make much difference to me either way.
1 Corinthians 15:3-8
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures, [SUP]4 [/SUP]that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures, [SUP]5 [/SUP]and that he appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve. [SUP]6 [/SUP]Then he appeared to more than five hundred brothers at one time, most of whom are still alive, though some have fallen asleep. [SUP]7 [/SUP]Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles. [SUP]8 [/SUP]Last of all, as to one untimely born, he appeared also to me (Paul).
1 Corinthians 15:3-8
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures, [SUP]4 [/SUP]that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures, [SUP]5 [/SUP]and that he appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve. [SUP]6 [/SUP]Then he appeared to more than five hundred brothers at one time, most of whom are still alive, though some have fallen asleep. [SUP]7 [/SUP]Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles. [SUP]8 [/SUP]Last of all, as to one untimely born, he appeared also to me (Paul).
Nonsense?
What is nonsense is this bickering over something that has nothing to do with our salvation. Those that believe that the gifts (me included) have not ceased because we believe when that which is perfect is come is when Jesus Christ returns and we consider "face to face" is seeing Christ face to face. We believe that these gifts are available through the indwelling of the holy spirit given to each born again believer. Then there are those who believe that scripture is that which perfect is scripture and they see scripture face to face and know everything not just in part but even as they are known. There are some who believe that the gifts are only for the disciples or the church at Corinth - BUT included in whom Corinthians was written to - "to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours" . . . and "But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal."
So why do we have to continue to tear up each other with these derogatory threads - and I am including the thread about the LCMS.
Regardless of the degree to which one individual or another relies upon the Bible, mainstream Pentecostals fiercely believe that the Bible is the Word of God, and sincerely desire to hold to its teaching. Pentecostalism is Trinitarian and holds to all the key elements of the Christian gospel. The stress on the Holy Spirit's ministry does not displace Jesus from centre-stage as God's Son, our redeemer and coming king
Can we at least agree on the above? ^
Sarah, thank you for what you posted - some good points within that.
What is nonsense is this bickering over something that has nothing to do with our salvation. Those that believe that the gifts (me included) have not ceased because we believe when that which is perfect is come is when Jesus Christ returns and we consider "face to face" is seeing Christ face to face. We believe that these gifts are available through the indwelling of the holy spirit given to each born again believer. Then there are those who believe that scripture is that which perfect is scripture and they see scripture face to face and know everything not just in part but even as they are known. There are some who believe that the gifts are only for the disciples or the church at Corinth - BUT included in whom Corinthians was written to - "to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours" . . . and "But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal."
So why do we have to continue to tear up each other with these derogatory threads - and I am including the thread about the LCMS.
Regardless of the degree to which one individual or another relies upon the Bible, mainstream Pentecostals fiercely believe that the Bible is the Word of God, and sincerely desire to hold to its teaching. Pentecostalism is Trinitarian and holds to all the key elements of the Christian gospel. The stress on the Holy Spirit's ministry does not displace Jesus from centre-stage as God's Son, our redeemer and coming king
Can we at least agree on the above? ^
Sarah, thank you for what you posted - some good points within that.
E
No the Pentecostals did.
The baptism of the Holy Spirit is romans 6. 1 cor 12. etc etc. It is where the HS baptises us into Christ, His death, Where our sins are cleaned. Where we are renewed and born again (titus 3: 5) through the washing of the HS.
It is not some religious superspiritual thing where people are empowered to speak in tongues.
The baptism of the Holy Spirit is romans 6. 1 cor 12. etc etc. It is where the HS baptises us into Christ, His death, Where our sins are cleaned. Where we are renewed and born again (titus 3: 5) through the washing of the HS.
It is not some religious superspiritual thing where people are empowered to speak in tongues.