Jesus, the beginning of the creation by God?

[DiscipleDave]

One God....just like the text says....

Yet Scriptures plainly teach that satan is the God of this world, oops another God is it not?

^i^

 

[Bowman]

Yet Scriptures plainly teach that satan is the God of this world, oops another God is it not?

^i^

The Greek states 'ruler'...study up....!

 

[Bowman]

Hello, ONE with THEM, as it plainly says and teaches. Are you saying we cannot be ONE with THEM, is that what you are teaching? That would be contrary to what the Word of God teaches, is it not? Do you believe we can be ONE with THEM as the Word of God teaches or do you believe something else? Tell us? Seriously Tell us if you believe we can be ONE with THEM as Scriptures teaches. And if you think i am taking it out of context, then by all means explain how we can be ONE with THEM and what does it mean?

^i^

We are NOT one GOD with them, brother!

Post the context...

Learn it.

 

[Bowman]

Re: Study up...

According to who? You?

According to scripture.

But, you don't study scripture...

NO Scriptures says HE wasn't, because He was, by the Father.

Produce the verse which states that Jesus was created by the Father, then.

If you have it, then post it...

Another meritless assertion by you.

And the Saints are adopted into that same name as well. We are ONE with THEM.

One what...?

Nothing in the Hebrew or Greek sates that the Son was not created by the Father. Either

It surely does!

You do not know me at all, i have read the entire Bible over 80 times in my life. Listen to it on MP3 every day for 8 hours at work. i have studied Hebrew and Greek, and also the latin vulgate. i have over one hundred certificates for Bible studies, and am an ordained minister. It is clear you do not know me at all. i am a very simple person because even though i have all that study. it was moot compared to what the Holy Spirit of Truth has taught me. i warn people from studying Hebrew and Greek, as if God requires a person to become learned in order to come to the Truth. lol. click on my website below and scroll down to Hebrew and Greek, and then maybe you might learn the dangers of becoming learned in those areas. God made Scriptures easy to understand that children can grasp the Truths thereof. but leave it to the learned to say a person must take it to the Greek or Hebrew to come to the Truth, they know nothing at all, even as i knew nothing at all, when i was neck deep in studying Hebrew and Greek and taking every verse to those. lol, you tell me that i am a simpleton, you do not know me at all and that is apparent. like a child telling an elder they don't know nothing at all. lol, lol, lol that really did make me laugh.



Says someone who has read the entire Bible less than 3 times, to one who has read it over 80 times in its entirety. lol.

^i^

Of course you discourage others from studying the original langauges...as this destroys YOUR heresy...

 

[Bowman]

Scriptures teach, and Jesus plainly taught that His Father is better then Him. That all that He knew came from His Father. That all that He did, the miracles were not from Him, but were from His Father in Heaven. If Jesus says His Father is Greater than Himself, who are we to argue with Jesus? If Jesus said and taught that His Father is greater then Himself. Then that is the Truth. The Father is Greater than Jesus Christ, as Jesus plainly taught us. Do you choose to believe Jesus and what He taught, or choose to believe men and what they teach?

^i^

What you have chosen to do is close your eyes to all the scriptures proclaiming that Jesus is God.

Your jacked-up theological paradigm can only see the man-side of the God-man.

You have nothing....but half.....

 

[Bowman]

If you were taught by the Holy Spirit of God, then you would know that Genesis 1:1 is the beginning of Humankind and the planet Earth and galaxy, NOT the beginning of the Kingdom of God. But even as i tell you this Truth, you will not believe it, because you have not the Spirit of Truth in you, if you did, then you would know the voice of the Holy Spirit when you heard it.

^i^

What....


Are you even talking about, now...?

 

[Bowman]

And we are ONE with them, according to the Apostle John:

John 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

So then the Father and Jesus are ONE, and according to Scriptures, i am ONE with the Father and Jesus. So are you ONE with them if you are a True Christian

^i^

Again...

'One' what...?

 

[DiscipleDave]

Yet Scriptures plainly teach that satan is the God of this world, oops another God is it not?

The Greek states 'ruler'...study up....!

Do you know when a person will take a verse to the Hebrew or Greek? When they do not agree with what the verse plainly says and teaches. Since you do not believe that satan is a God of this world as Scriptures teach, you have to take that to the Greek in order to change the word God to fit with what you want to believe. You do not believe the Word of God that teach satan is the God of this world, so you must take it to the Hebrew or Greek in order to change the verse into something that you will agree with. Is it any wander why there are thousands of different denomination in this wicked generation? You believe Greek, i choose to believe the Word of God and what it plainly teaches. OK?

^i^

 

[DiscipleDave]

Again...

'One' what...?

in the words of my brother Bowman "Study up"

^i^

 

[DiscipleDave]

Scriptures teach, and Jesus plainly taught that His Father is better then Him. That all that He knew came from His Father. That all that He did, the miracles were not from Him, but were from His Father in Heaven. If Jesus says His Father is Greater than Himself, who are we to argue with Jesus? If Jesus said and taught that His Father is greater then Himself. Then that is the Truth. The Father is Greater than Jesus Christ, as Jesus plainly taught us. Do you choose to believe Jesus and what He taught, or choose to believe men and what they teach?

What you have chosen to do is close your eyes to all the scriptures proclaiming that Jesus is God.

Who is telling you these things? What voice are you listening too. i have never said Jesus is not God. Jesus is God, i have never said otherwise.

Your jacked-up theological paradigm can only see the man-side of the God-man.

You have nothing....but half.....

Again, who are you listening too, who has told you that i do not know that Jesus is God?

^i^

 

[Bowman]

Do you know when a person will take a verse to the Hebrew or Greek? When they do not agree with what the verse plainly says and teaches. Since you do not believe that satan is a God of this world as Scriptures teach, you have to take that to the Greek in order to change the word God to fit with what you want to believe. You do not believe the Word of God that teach satan is the God of this world, so you must take it to the Hebrew or Greek in order to change the verse into something that you will agree with. Is it any wander why there are thousands of different denomination in this wicked generation? You believe Greek, i choose to believe the Word of God and what it plainly teaches. OK?

^i^

Let's kill two birds with this one verse...

2 Cor 4.4

in whom the ruler of this age has blinded the thoughts of the unbelieving, so that the brightness of the gospel of the glory of Christ who is the image of God, should not dawn on them.


So....here we have Satan described as the ruler of the present age.....and this is contrasted to The God, Jesus Christ.

See the difference, brother...

 

[Bowman]

Who is telling you these things? What voice are you listening too. i have never said Jesus is not God. Jesus is God, i have never said otherwise.

Let's hear you admit that Jesus IS the One true God....just like scripture tells us...

 

[DiscipleDave]

Re: Study up...

Of course you discourage others from studying the original langauges...as this destroys YOUR heresy...

What you call heresy, is what God has told me. That is the Truth brother. Is it my teaching people to stop sinning that has got you so riled up brother? i teach above all else to LOVE ONE ANOTHER, to stop obeying satan, to cease from sinning against Jesus Christ, are these things heresy to you? For the same who told me these things, told me all the other things as well. You do not hear the Truth, because the Truth is not in you. Those who obey Jesus Christ, are they who recieve the Holy Spirit (acts 5:32) Those who do not obey Jesus Christ, will not come to the Truth, nor can they come to the Truth, because they love to sin, more then to give that sin up for Christ. Anyone who knowingly and willingly commits sin, and continues to live in those sins, will not come to the Truth. If they repent of those sins and cease from them, that is when the Holy Ghost can work with that person. but as long as a person chooses to sin over obedience to Jesus Christ, can't come to the Truth, nor can learn the Truth, nor can they understand the Truth when they hear it. i teach against sin. Therefore i must teach heresy. Again what you call heresy is what God has told me. Careful brother, blaspheme of the Holy Ghost is not, nor ever will be forgiven unto a person who commits it. i have not instructed anyone to do evil, i teach to do only good, to walk perfect before the Lord Jesus Christ, and this is what you call heresy. Careful brother.

^i^

 

[Bowman]

Re: Study up...

What you call heresy, is what God has told me. That is the Truth brother. Is it my teaching people to stop sinning that has got you so riled up brother? i teach above all else to LOVE ONE ANOTHER, to stop obeying satan, to cease from sinning against Jesus Christ, are these things heresy to you? For the same who told me these things, told me all the other things as well. You do not hear the Truth, because the Truth is not in you. Those who obey Jesus Christ, are they who recieve the Holy Spirit (acts 5:32) Those who do not obey Jesus Christ, will not come to the Truth, nor can they come to the Truth, because they love to sin, more then to give that sin up for Christ. Anyone who knowingly and willingly commits sin, and continues to live in those sins, will not come to the Truth. If they repent of those sins and cease from them, that is when the Holy Ghost can work with that person. but as long as a person chooses to sin over obedience to Jesus Christ, can't come to the Truth, nor can learn the Truth, nor can they understand the Truth when they hear it. i teach against sin. Therefore i must teach heresy. Again what you call heresy is what God has told me. Careful brother, blaspheme of the Holy Ghost is not, nor ever will be forgiven unto a person who commits it. i have not instructed anyone to do evil, i teach to do only good, to walk perfect before the Lord Jesus Christ, and this is what you call heresy. Careful brother.

^i^

No, brother...

You are getting your 'inspiration' from the wrong god.

Little wonder that you can't be bothered with true scripture study, as that would expose your ideas as worthless garbage...

 

[DiscipleDave]

We are NOT one GOD with them, brother!

Post the context...

Learn it.

Is it not written, ye are gods? IF we are children of God, what does that make us? If a cat has a kitten, it is still a cat, yes? The Spirit that is inside of you, is immortal, it can't die, nor be killed. That spirit is a child of God, for we are all children of God, However not all of us children will be taken with Him. The wrath of God is coming upon the disobedient Children, they are called children because even the unsaved, have an immortal Spirit inside of them, that is a child of the living God in Heaven. However many children will spend eternity separated from their Father. It is written "ye are gods" because all of us are offspring of God, that spirit that is inside of us, is immortal, it will either spend all eternity with God or separated from god, but either way, they live forever and ever. We are ONE GOD, ONE Kingdom, ONE Heaven. Understand?

^i^

 

[Bowman]

Let's hear you admit that Jesus IS the One true God....just like scripture tells us...

And we know that the Son of God has come, and He has given to us an understanding that we may know the true One, and we are in the true One, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and the life eternal. (1 John 5.20)

 

[Bowman]

Keep running...

Is it not written, ye are gods? IF we are children of God, what does that make us? If a cat has a kitten, it is still a cat, yes? The Spirit that is inside of you, is immortal, it can't die, nor be killed. That spirit is a child of God, for we are all children of God, However not all of us children will be taken with Him. The wrath of God is coming upon the disobedient Children, they are called children because even the unsaved, have an immortal Spirit inside of them, that is a child of the living God in Heaven. However many children will spend eternity separated from their Father. It is written "ye are gods" because all of us are offspring of God, that spirit that is inside of us, is immortal, it will either spend all eternity with God or separated from god, but either way, they live forever and ever. We are ONE GOD, ONE Kingdom, ONE Heaven. Understand?

^i^

You are the perfect example of what happens to grown adults when they fail to study the original languages.

Please tell us what word is used for 'gods'...

 

[Bowman]

Another hit-n-run by the false disciple...

 

[Tintin]

god = ruler
God = One True God in three persons (Father/Son/Spirit)

 

[ElizabethPeter]

To people who call themselves Christians, How can Jesus be God yet be the creation of God at the same time? (brackets are mine [ ])

(Revelation 3:14) “...These are the things that the Amen says, [who is] the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation by God..."

Many people here will say that in Revelation 3:14 that it's talking about Jesus not being the actual beginning of creation but beginner of creation or originator of creation. That teaching though is false, since throughout the Bible it talks of all things being made "through" Jesus, meaning the one using Jesus to create all these things is the originator/beginner of creation. With that being the case Rev 3:14 doesn't express that idea.

(Hebrews 1:1, 2) "God...has at the end of these days spoken to us by means of a Son...through whom he made the systems of things"

The other argument people use with Rev 3:14 has to do with the Greek word for "beginning" which is "Arche". In Greek "arche" can at times mean "beginning" and other times "ruler". So some people say that in rev 3:14 it's meant to express that Jesus is the head or ruler of Gods creation not beginning, thus they favor the ruler sense of the Greek word arche.

If people on here use that argument then your being completely unreasonable. The apostle John was the writer in Revelation, he also wrote the books; John, 1 John & 2 John. Now every single time John uses the word "arche" in all his other books, which is 21 times he always uses it the sense of something being the beginning in the sequence of something, not once does he use arche to mean ruler.

So when it comes to translating Revelations use of the Greek word arche in 3:14, how should people translate it? Well the same why John used it in every single one of his books to mean beginning, if people don't they're tricking themselves.

This all being said how can Jesus be a creation of God and yet God at the same time?

Jesus is God's creation. Not denying the fact. But the only way for Jesus to die, was to become a man, just like you and I. Read the Bible. Sometimes, when Jesus speaks, He sounds like man. And others, He sounds like God. Why? Because Jesus is 100% man, yet, at the same time, He's 100% God. It will be hard for you to understand. Because you see, God, is a spirit. And Jesus, has God's spirit. Understand yet? If not, then, God bless.