Paul was not qualified to be an apostle

LovePink · Dec 13, 2013

This is a truth plainly set forth in Scripture by a few verses. What were the requirements for an apostle of Jesus' earthly ministry (Rm 15:8), according to Scripture, Christ and the Holy Spirit?

So, we should see & understand, God in keeping with His character (Holy, just, righteous & perfect in all His ways), did what when He raised up, converted and separated Saul unto Himself? (Rm 1:1, Gal 1:15)

I want to include a verse, part of the apostle Paul's commission statement, if you will, for consideration in the fact, if something is different- it is not the same.

"For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect." 1 Corinthians 1:17

Let the words on the page say what they mean. This shows distiction, right division, for a purpose God is revealing about a change in His dealings with man in time. Read in a King James Version of the bible, pls, so we are sharing in the same words, Eph 2:11-13.

Let me offer one more verse of distinction, for our conversation, study, profit & learning;

"But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;" Gal 2:7

oldhermit · Dec 13, 2013

Is your issue with the man or with the things he wrote?

overcomer2 · Dec 13, 2013

I believe things are getting mixed up. There was a physical circumcision and a spiritual one. You must know which one they are speaking of in the scriptures. The Lord does not care about the flesh. No flesh will enter the kingdom. Look what he did to Jesus's flesh. The circumcision of the heart is what matters.

Elin · Dec 13, 2013

LovePink said:

Well, I'm still stuck at Christ qualifying him by making him one.

Hockey puck.

HeRoseFromTheDead · Dec 13, 2013

I don't think LovePink is qualified to make that judgment.

oldhermit · Dec 13, 2013

HeRoseFromTheDead said:

I am always amazed at the people who feel comfortable attempting to override the decisions of the Almighty.

zone · Dec 13, 2013

it's the Fourth Wave, folks.

.....

look for the root.

HeRoseFromTheDead · Dec 13, 2013

oldhermit said:

Beliefs will do strange things to people.

zone · Dec 13, 2013

The Hebrew Roots Cult Movement
Hatred for Christians and the Apostle Paul

"Lord Yeshua warns about those who are not Torah observant, those who practice (live a life) for lawlessness "a Torah-less life style""

Paul the false apostle of Revelation 2:2

zone · Dec 13, 2013

Question: "Was the Apostle Paul actually a false prophet?"

Answer: The theory that the apostle Paul was a false prophet and not a true follower of Christ is usually put forth by those of the Hebrew roots movement persuasion, among others. They believe Christians should submit to the Old Testament Law, but Paul clearly disagrees with them, proclaiming that Christians are no longer under the Mosaic Law (Romans 10:4; Galatians 3:23-25; Ephesians 2:15), but the Law of Christ (Galatians 6:2), which is to “love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind…and to love your neighbor as yourself” (Matthew 22:37-39). Rather than submitting to God’s Word, the Hebrew roots movement simply dismisses Paul altogether and claims that Paul was a false apostle and that his writings should not be in the Bible.

Read more: Was the Apostle Paul actually a false prophet?

zone · Dec 13, 2013

Some Hebrew Roots ministries go beyond mere suggestion that Christians should "try out" various religious practices and customs of the Jews, and actually teach that the only way to be authentic disciples of Jesus—whom they would refer to by the name they believe He would have used in the first century, something close to "Yahshuah"—is to become Jewish believers in Messiah. This would include adoption of most orthodox Jewish practices such as wearing prayer shawls for worship, wearing blue tassels on the bottoms of a special garment worn at all times, using the traditional Jewish "blessings" throughout the day, and, for some males, even undergoing circumcision if necessary. All of these things are adopted in order to be more "spiritual" and to be more acceptable to God.

It is the position of this website that the approach of this type of ministry is completely distracting from the simplicity that is in Christ, and leads away from true spiritual faith and practice rather than toward it.

There is one final type of Hebrew Roots ministry which has begun to develop out of the last type mentioned above. This ministry poses as one which offers to help Christians explore the Hebrew roots of Jesus and the Hebrew roots of the New Testament Faith. But under this benign surface its goal is to totally undermine the faith of believers in both Jesus and the New Testament. One type of this branch of the Hebrew Roots movement downplays the role of Jesus in salvation, implying strongly that He was just a good Jewish Rabbi of the first century rather than the unique Son of God. And they teach that the New Testament, while containing some inspirational material, is unreliable as the written Word of God. But beyond this branch is one even more radical, which attempts to draw Christians to such conclusions that:

The New Testament was a forgery of the Roman Catholic Church;

The Apostle Paul sought to undermine the teachings of Jesus, and created a false religion;

Jesus of Nazareth didn't exist at all—or, even worse, represents not the Son of God but Satan the Devil himself.

It is the position of this website that both of the approaches described in point 5 are not just distracting to Christians, but are in fact Anti-Christ.

Field Guide: Hebrew Roots

ProphetExcalibur · Dec 13, 2013

oldhermit said:

I'm amazed at what I just read of this thread; I'm fallen out of my chair and I can't get up!

Jesus when He was resurrected was God's witness (or The Apostle) in heaven;
while at the same time,
Paul was God's witness (or Apostle to the Gentiles) on earth;
of the preaching of the Gospel to the Gentiles and then unto the rest of the world!

LovePink, tell me your just kidding around!

many blessings

cfultz3 · Dec 13, 2013

zone said:

They do seem to come in waves....

oldhermit · Dec 13, 2013

ProphetExcalibur said:

Did you misunderstand what I said?

ProphetExcalibur · Dec 13, 2013

oldhermit said:

nope i was agreeing with you, and cracken wise!

zone · Dec 13, 2013

One very clear aim of the Hebrew Roots movement is to drag you away from Mount Calvary and the finished work at the cross of Christ, and to keeping dragging you back before the cross, all the way back to Mount Sinai and place the yoke of the Law, (what they love to call the “Torah”), around your neck after Christ has freed you from it.

Here is Mark Blitz quoted directly from his website:

“My goal is not to convert Jews to Christianity but to bring non-Jews to a better understanding of YHVH through a better understanding of Torah. I think most Christians do not know YHVH as He really is but know Him as they have tried to create Him in their image rather than understanding they were created in His image. Many Christians believe they have a relationship with YHVH but they don’t. The time is coming when the Jewish people will recognize the role Yeshua played and they will then fulfill their mission in taking Torah to the nations. They will straighten out the Christians theology in what Yeshua was really saying. There will be Christians who will be saying what can these Jews know about Yeshua when in actuality you will have the correct understanding. In Christianity as you probably know there will be an antichrist and false prophet who deceive the world.”

THE HEBREW ROOTS MOVEMENT – ANOTHER FALSE GOSPEL | Unsealed Prophecy

blah blah blah.
like, do we not recognize this by now?

...

it's actually extremely serious - i've been watching this progress for a long time.
there are very few testimonies of people who manage to come out of it.
i believe it ends in a judgment by God at some point.

zone · Dec 13, 2013

cfultz3 said:

dat's why we have to know our NT doctrine.
Galatians is the silver bullet.

Tintin · Dec 13, 2013

overcomer2 said:

Wrong. The Lord does care about the flesh, otherwise why would he come to earth as God/man? Also, we're not just floating spirits in the New Heaven and New Earth, we'll have new, sinless bodies. Anything else isn't biblical but more akin to Eastern Mysticism.

zone · Dec 13, 2013

Joint Prophecies of Rick Joyner & Rabbi Cohen
at Messiah'99

Rabbi Robert Cohen & Rick Joyner
Edited transcript of Audio tape from
"The Opening Night" of Messiah’99
July 4-10,1999

Sponsored by

Messianic Jewish Alliance of America
Young Messianic Jewish Alliance
International Alliance of Messianic Congregations and Synagogues

....

"Prophecy" Highlights:

The 1970s, when Jerusalem returned to Jewish hands, was the end of the Gentile Age.

The 1990s are moving on the spirit of revival that began with the Jesus Movement, which was the source of the Messianic movement.

The Messianic people are a prophetic righteous remnant, "that are calling the Church back to their Jewish roots" and "they are back to become a prophetic call to the nation of Israel."

Messianic people are, "THE HEAD," meaning, of the Body of Christ and the First Fruits.

Whole communities will come to Y’eshua because of their witness.

Jews and Gentiles will be looking to the Messianics to explain the Word of God.

Joyner expressed a concern that Messianics: ". . .would not be corrupted by too many relationships with the Church" and that they are not supposed to be like the Church nor the Church like them as that would, "mess everything up."

Racism is one of the ultimate enemies.

There is a revolution going on in the Church.

Reconciliation happens when there is restitution, and there’s going to be a lot of restitution for the Messianic people as Jews.

Messianic people will have a better ability to witness, heal, discern and utilize spiritual gifts than others.

Messianics are going to help us (the Church) restore our foundations to where they belong -- and we won’t get where we’re supposed to be without their help.

Joint Prophecies of Rick Joyner & Rabbi Cohen at Messiah '99

sound familiar?

course evangelicalism was well primed by the "The Church is Not Israel" mantra.

i scoffed when i found this stuff...but, here we are.
tsk tsk.

HeRoseFromTheDead · Dec 13, 2013

zone said:

From the above:

Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. Galatians 5:1

A big problem for Paul haters is that Peter says the same thing.

So now why are you putting God to the test by placing on the neck of the disciples a yoke [of circumcision that binds them to the law of Moses] that neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear? But we believe we will be saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus in the same way those also are.” Acts 15:10-11

Paul was not qualified to be an apostle

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