Did Jesus SOUL Died On The Cross ?.

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Nick1939

Guest
#21
Hi Gotime,,,,Quote,,,,,,A More Careful Read Of The Text May Help,,,,And It DID A LOT. And I Am Of The Same Agreement , You Are Correct In ALL 3 Points,According To The Scriptures.....Thanks For The Coraboration ..
Question ,,,,,,What You Think ; Is Jesus GOD The Father? Yes Or NO Answer Will Do..Thanks... God Bless.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,972
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#22
Although in the OT, it is written that the first man, Adam became a "living soul" the soul does not cease to exist on death.

Mar 8:37 "Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul?"
Matt 10;28 "fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."
Rev 6:9 "When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained. They called out in a loud voice, “How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?”

The soul goes into a state of hibernation, where it remains alive to God, but dead to the world.

Luk 20:38 "He is not the God of the dead, but of the living, for to him all are alive.”

So to talk of the "death of the soul" is ambiguous. A "dead soul" can simply mean a dead person, but it carried with it the knowledge that the soul remains alive to God.

NOTE, in Mat. 1:28, it is talking about the resurrected unbeliever, after he faces Judgement Day and is sentenced to the Lake of Fire. It is not talking about the torment the unbeliever's spirit goes through in Hades while awaiting Judgement day. And notice it is only the soul and body of the unbeliever that can be "destroyed" in hell. His spirit will be there for eternity in the torments of the Lake of Fire.

Matthew 25:46 (NKJV)
[SUP]46 [/SUP] And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

Since we know it says the soul and body can in the Lake of Fire be "destroyed", which means to be totally consumed; it is CLEARLY not the soul of man that is everlasting, it is the spirit of man that will be everlasting either in heaven, or in the everlasting punishment described above.

Before anyone brings up the fact that there is such a thing as a dead spirit, that does NOT mean it is not functioning, (such as a dead body). It simply means it is not functioning for the purpose God created it. In other words it is Dead to GOD and is not seeking to do HIS WILL. Once that spirit has been born again, it is already Eternally Alive to GOD seeking to do HIS WILL. Sure the soul of man contends with the will of the eternally alive spirit of man; and while spiritually immature, the soul frequently wins. However as one feeds on the WORD of GOD, that eternally alive human spirit will grow stronger and will eventually mature and become dominant over the soul which primarily focuses on the will of the flesh.


Judges 16:16 (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] And it came to pass, when she pressed him daily with her words, and urged him, so that his soul was vexed unto death;

Psalm 33:19 (ASV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] To deliver their soul from death, And to keep them alive in famine.

It appears to me that it is the spirit of man that departs the body at death, to go either to Heaven or Hades.

 
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VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,972
4,587
113
#23
Hi VCO , Pretty Good But Not Clear , Too Many Yes , Some No ,Some Maybes. Thanks Enyway... God Bless..

My point was, is not the soul then the human mind, and as such was not the soul of Jesus also part of His humanness, His human mind? I think we has humans frequently confuse soul with the human spirit. The difference between JESUS and US is our spirits were created by HIM; while HIS Spirit is GOD.

2 Corinthians 5:19 (NKJV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation.

John 4:24 (KJV)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

It is the Spirit of Jesus that is fully Deity, while the Soul and Body of Jesus is fully man.

Colossians 2:9 (NKJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily;
 
Nov 18, 2013
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#24
It appears to me that it is the spirit of man that departs the body at death, to go either to Heaven or Hades.
Both the soul and the spirit depart the body together. They cannot be divided, surely? The condition of the spirit will determine where the soul goes. If the spirit is alive to God (believer in Christ), the soul goes to paradise. If the spirit is dead (refusenik), the soul goes to the flames. God will determine where it goes. At least, this is my interpretation.
 
Oct 12, 2012
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#25
I Always Wonder Of 1st Pet 3:18-20......And I Thought How Could He Go And Preach To The Spirits In Prison While He Told The Thieve On The Cross, Luke 23:43 That He Would Be With Him That Day In Paradise?.Was The Thieve With Him In Prison While He Was Preaching ;Or He Was Waiting In Paradise For His Return?.........And I Question , What Is The Truth Of The Three Events ; Did Really Jesus SOUL Died; And If He Did, How Could He Preach To The Spirits In Prison?.But If His SOUL Did NOT Died, But Indeed He Preach To The Spirits In Prison; Why He Told The Thieve On The Cross,TODAY Shall Thou Be With Me In Paradise? .....Mind Bugling ...Some One Please Help Since We Can't Have It ALL Three Ways.... God Bless...
Nick, Jesus died and went to Sheol to 'Abraham's Bosom' this was their paradise until their Messiah was made manifest!
It was here where He preached to the spirits imprisoned.
 

gotime

Senior Member
Mar 3, 2011
3,537
88
48
#26
Hi Gotime,,,,Quote,,,,,,A More Careful Read Of The Text May Help,,,,And It DID A LOT. And I Am Of The Same Agreement , You Are Correct In ALL 3 Points,According To The Scriptures.....Thanks For The Coraboration ..
Question ,,,,,,What You Think ; Is Jesus GOD The Father? Yes Or NO Answer Will Do..Thanks... God Bless.
No Jesus is not God the Father.
 
Oct 14, 2013
4,750
21
0
#27
Nick, Jesus died and went to Sheol to 'Abraham's Bosom' this was their paradise until their Messiah was made manifest!
It was here where He preached to the spirits imprisoned.
What is your take on 1 Peter 3:18-20
One of the most misunderstood verses in the Bible is found in 1 Peter 3:18-20 which says

“For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit, by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison, who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water.”

What does this verse mean? Did Jesus preach to spirits in hades or hell? Or did He preach to fallen angels? Or does this verse mean something completely different?


How did Jesus preach to these spirits in prison?
Who are these spirits in prison?
And when did He do this?
 
Oct 14, 2013
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#28
Nick, Jesus died and went to Sheol to 'Abraham's Bosom' this was their paradise until their Messiah was made manifest!
It was here where He preached to the spirits imprisoned.
Q: How did Jesus preach to these spirits in prison?

Some think that this verse means that when Christ died on the cross that he went to hel and preached to the spirits in prison. However the word hades or hell is not in the text. Let’s take the verse slowly and see what it means…
One of the keys is verse 18-19 which says
” being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit, 19 by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison,” the question is who is the individual mentioned in the words “by whom” found in verse 19?

If you read the verse it says “by the Spirit, 19 by whom” Thus the “by whom” is the Holy Spirit. So with that in mind the verse says the following that Christ by the Holy Spirit “went and preached to the spirits in prison”. OK that makes it a little clearer. But that begs the question…


Q: When did Christ preach to these individuals by the Holy Spirit?

The verse says that Christ by the Holy Spirit “went and preached to the spirits in prison, 20 who formerly were disobedient,” when? The verse states ” when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water.”

So Christ by the Holy Spirit preached to the spirits in prison in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared. Thus this happened before Jesus came as a man.
 
Oct 14, 2013
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#29
Nick, Jesus died and went to Sheol to 'Abraham's Bosom' this was their paradise until their Messiah was made manifest!
It was here where He preached to the spirits imprisoned.
Q: But who are these spirits in prison during the days of Noah?

Well the Bible tells us Satan has “made the world as a wilderness
And destroyed its cities, ” and “did not open the house of his prisoners“. (Isaiah 14:17) Hebrews 12:23

So Satan is the one keeping these prisoners. Prisoners have no freedom. Who is it whom Satan is trying to take captive?

Humans of course. Thus, the prisoners are actually humans who are bound to sin. Jesus said “Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin” (John 8:34). Slaves are not free, and whoever commits sin is a slave or prisoner to sin, they have no freedom. There is only one who can set us free, “if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed.” (John 8:36). Jesus is the only one who can set us free from the prison of sin. This is His mission. One day Jesus stood up to read and He declared of Himself…


“Isaiah 61:1,(Luke 4:18-19)

61 The Spirit of the Lord God is upon me; because the Lord hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound
Praise be to Jesus who can set us free from the prison of sin!
Therefore, Jesus by the Holy Spirit preached to people who were slaves to sin, during the days of Noah while the ark was being prepared.

 
Oct 14, 2013
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#30
Nick, Jesus died and went to Sheol to 'Abraham's Bosom' this was their paradise until their Messiah was made manifest!
It was here where He preached to the spirits imprisoned.
Q: Who did Christ by the Holy Spirit use? Giving a warning of a coming prophetic flood?

The Bible tells us that “holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.” (2 Peter 1:21) and that “Noah, one of eight people, (was) a preacher of righteousness”. (2 Peter 2:5) Thus 1 Peter 3:18-20 tells us this, that Jesus in His great mercy by the Holy Spirit spoke through Noah, in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared. Striving to redeem those humans in prison to sin, while the ark was being prepared.

Q: Does the rest of the Bible confirm or contradict our interpretation?

It confirms it for it is written speaking during the days of Noah
And the Lord said, “My Spirit shall not strive with man forever, for he is indeed flesh; yet his days shall be one hundred and twenty years.” (Genesis 6:3)
 
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Nick1939

Guest
#31
Hi Gotime, You Are Right Again. Keep Up The Good Work..And The Grace Of The Lord Will Be And IS Upon Those Who Love The TRUTH,Grace To You And To ALL Who Thirst For IT........... God Bless...
 
Oct 12, 2012
1,563
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#32
What is your take on 1 Peter 3:18-20
One of the most misunderstood verses in the Bible is found in 1 Peter 3:18-20 which says

“For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit, by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison, who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water.”

What does this verse mean? Did Jesus preach to spirits in hades or hell? Or did He preach to fallen angels? Or does this verse mean something completely different?


How did Jesus preach to these spirits in prison?
Who are these spirits in prison?
And when did He do this?
Daniel, in Rev 12th ch. it is said, that the accuser of the Brethren has been cast down; who accuse them day and night before God, my paraphrase.

now this was after Christ was resurrected, they are the ones Messiah revealed Himself to in 'Abraham's Bosom', they are the faithful of Old Covenant Israel, who resided in Sheol and waited for the righteous Blood of Messiah to release them.

the unfaithful dead of Old Covenant Israel were across the gulf in Sheol could also hear Him, as they could hear the beggar who spoke to the rich man.

Jesus also sealed the Faithful of Old Covenant Israel in those same 3 days in Sheol, Rev Ch 7.

and He, Jesus, could have had a face off with these fallen angels, and Nephilim, before He was resurrected?!
because I'm sure they were at the walls of this gulf mocking His claims as Messiah.
hard to prove that, but this was Satan's domain still, so to speak.
But they all sure got a surprise when He was filled with the Light of God and was actually resurrected!

So, because the fallen angels are are called spirits, and Noah or the Adamic Race is referred to as souls; (hear in this passage anyway).
I would say it was the fallen angels who seduced the Adamic women, and tried to enter back into heaven through their Adamic Womb! Enoch spoke to God, about forgiveness to these same creatures and God said NO!
But that they (fallen angels who seduced those Adamic women) would be kept in their prison until their day of judgement.

So it would seem to me that Jesus had a special session with these fallen spirits for what they had done.


But a lot of these things were cleaned up out of the Christian doctrine,
because they did not want it preached to their women or children, or new comers into the church.
They did the church a disservice in my humble opinion, but I try to avoid it mostly because of the bitterness it causes.

From Adam to Adam it was Satan's chore to ruin the Adamic line to Messiah.
It is through the Adamic Womb that we enter back into heaven! And these fowl spirits knew this.
The Virgin, The Messiah!

many blessings
 
N

Nick1939

Guest
#33
Hi Isdaniel.. Your Question Who Are This Spirits In Prison During The Days Of Noah?......Well While You Got Correct 1st Pet:3:18-20,Yet Your Answer Who Are They And Aplying Them To Satan In Isaiah 14:17,,,,This Spirits Are Not Being Arrested And kept Prisoners Of Satan,But are Now In Prison,Waiting Judgment ,And Can Not Be Demons Because Demons Are Still Loose Today..Here Are The Scriptures To This Puzzle ,,,,,,,,,,,1st Cor 6:3 Know Ye Not That We Shall Judge Angels; Who Are This Angels; Jude v.6 And The Angels Who Kept Not Their First Estate ,But LEFT Their Own Habitation , He Hath Reserved In Everlasting CHAINS Under DARKNESS,Unto The JUDGMENT Of The Great DAY.....Also 2nd Pet 2:4-5 V,4 For If God Spare NOT The ANGELS That Sinned But Cast Them Down To "Hell" Hell Is NOT Good Translation From The Greek, Hell= Punishment .Correct Translation Is Tartaros,Meaning Pitch Dark..But You Did Mentioned Gen6:3 Correctly , My Spirit Shall NOT Always Strive With Man,For That He ALSO Is FLESH, Who Was ALSO FLESH; The Fallen Angels Perhaps; Who Else Shaw The Daughters Of Men And Took For Wife ;And Therefore They Sinned .. To Which Paul,Peter, And Jude Refer To; Please Note Heb 1:7, 13-14 Verses And Make The Connection, Spirit And Angels...... God Bless....
 
Oct 14, 2013
4,750
21
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#34
Daniel, in Rev 12th ch. it is said, that the accuser of the Brethren has been cast down; who accuse them day and night before God, my paraphrase.

now this was after Christ was resurrected, they are the ones Messiah revealed Himself to in 'Abraham's Bosom', they are the faithful of Old Covenant Israel, who resided in Sheol and waited for the righteous Blood of Messiah to release them.

the unfaithful dead of Old Covenant Israel were across the gulf in Sheol could also hear Him, as they could hear the beggar who spoke to the rich man.

Jesus also sealed the Faithful of Old Covenant Israel in those same 3 days in Sheol, Rev Ch 7.

and He, Jesus, could have had a face off with these fallen angels, and Nephilim, before He was resurrected?!
because I'm sure they were at the walls of this gulf mocking His claims as Messiah.
hard to prove that, but this was Satan's domain still, so to speak.
But they all sure got a surprise when He was filled with the Light of God and was actually resurrected!

So, because the fallen angels are are called spirits, and Noah or the Adamic Race is referred to as souls; (hear in this passage anyway).
I would say it was the fallen angels who seduced the Adamic women, and tried to enter back into heaven through their Adamic Womb! Enoch spoke to God, about forgiveness to these same creatures and God said NO!
But that they (fallen angels who seduced those Adamic women) would be kept in their prison until their day of judgement.

So it would seem to me that Jesus had a special session with these fallen spirits for what they had done.


But a lot of these things were cleaned up out of the Christian doctrine,
because they did not want it preached to their women or children, or new comers into the church.
They did the church a disservice in my humble opinion, but I try to avoid it mostly because of the bitterness it causes.

From Adam to Adam it was Satan's chore to ruin the Adamic line to Messiah.
It is through the Adamic Womb that we enter back into heaven! And these fowl spirits knew this.
The Virgin, The Messiah!

many blessings
[h=3]What does it mean by hell ?
What does it mean by darkness ?
2 Peter 2:4[/h]King James Version (KJV)

4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;


please explain this
 
Oct 14, 2013
4,750
21
0
#35
Hi Isdaniel.. Your Question Who Are This Spirits In Prison During The Days Of Noah?......Well While You Got Correct 1st Pet:3:18-20,Yet Your Answer Who Are They And Aplying Them To Satan In Isaiah 14:17,,,,This Spirits Are Not Being Arrested And kept Prisoners Of Satan,But are Now In Prison,Waiting Judgment ,And Can Not Be Demons Because Demons Are Still Loose Today..Here Are The Scriptures To This Puzzle ,,,,,,,,,,,1st Cor 6:3 Know Ye Not That We Shall Judge Angels; Who Are This Angels; Jude v.6 And The Angels Who Kept Not Their First Estate ,But LEFT Their Own Habitation , He Hath Reserved In Everlasting CHAINS Under DARKNESS,Unto The JUDGMENT Of The Great DAY.....Also 2nd Pet 2:4-5 V,4 For If God Spare NOT The ANGELS That Sinned But Cast Them Down To "Hell" Hell Is NOT Good Translation From The Greek, Hell= Punishment .Correct Translation Is Tartaros,Meaning Pitch Dark..But You Did Mentioned Gen6:3 Correctly , My Spirit Shall NOT Always Strive With Man,For That He ALSO Is FLESH, Who Was ALSO FLESH; The Fallen Angels Perhaps; Who Else Shaw The Daughters Of Men And Took For Wife ;And Therefore They Sinned .. To Which Paul,Peter, And Jude Refer To; Please Note Heb 1:7, 13-14 Verses And Make The Connection, Spirit And Angels...... God Bless....


please explain this

[h=3]What is the chains if darkness ?
What is hell there ?

2 Peter 2:4[/h]King James Version (KJV)

4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,972
4,587
113
#36
please explain this

What is the chains if darkness ?
What is hell there ?

2 Peter 2:4


King James Version (KJV)

4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

Revelation 20:1-2 (HCSB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven with the key to the abyss and a great chain in his hand.
[SUP]2 [/SUP] He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for 1,000 years.

Luke 8:30-33 (NIV)
[SUP]30 [/SUP] Jesus asked him, "What is your name?" "Legion," he replied, because many demons had gone into him.
[SUP]31 [/SUP] And they begged him repeatedly not to order them to go into the Abyss.
[SUP]32 [/SUP] A large herd of pigs was feeding there on the hillside. The demons begged Jesus to let them go into them, and he gave them permission.
[SUP]33 [/SUP] When the demons came out of the man, they went into the pigs, and the herd rushed down the steep bank into the lake and was drowned.

Psalm 140:10 (HCSB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] Let hot coals fall on them. Let them be thrown into the fire, into the abyss, never again to rise.

Matthew 25:30 (ESV)
[SUP]30 [/SUP] And cast the worthless servant into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,972
4,587
113
#37
Both the soul and the spirit depart the body together. They cannot be divided, surely? The condition of the spirit will determine where the soul goes. If the spirit is alive to God (believer in Christ), the soul goes to paradise. If the spirit is dead (refusenik), the soul goes to the flames. God will determine where it goes. At least, this is my interpretation.

That is not what the Bible says:

Hebrews 4:12 (ASV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] For the word of God is living, and active, and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing even to the dividing of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and quick to discern the thoughts and intents of the heart.
 
Oct 12, 2012
1,563
929
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68
#38
What does it mean by hell ?
What does it mean by darkness ?
2 Peter 2:4


King James Version (KJV)

4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;


please explain this
Chains of darkness, would be, keep in darkness and out of the Light of His kingdom, or forgiveness.
or hid in chains from the light.
like I said the same thing is said in Enoch.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,972
4,587
113
#39
No Jesus is not God the Father.
And the Father is not GOD the Son, nor GOD the Holy Spirit, YET the THREE are still ONLY ONE GOD​.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,972
4,587
113
#40
What does it mean by hell ?
What does it mean by darkness ?
2 Peter 2:4


King James Version (KJV)

4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;


please explain this

Hades is a place of torment for the disembodied human spirit of unbelievers, awaiting Judgment Day.

On Judgment Day they will be resurrected and reunited with their bodies, to Face their final sentencing, which ends with their being cast into the Lake of Fire (HELL), the place of everlasting punishment for the unbelievers of all time.

1 John 1:5 (NKJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] This is the message which we have heard from Him and declare to you, that God is light and in Him is no darkness at all.

Sin is darkness. Hades and Hell are total separation from GOD, who is Light, hence Hades and Hell are both referred to as Outer Darkness.