Is the right baptism necessary for salvation?
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then they still went and get baptized in Jesus name,maybe i'm being misunderstood i'll try to clarify things, someone who has never been baptized before and isn't a christian can receive the holy spirit, they will then get lead by the same spirit to baptism by water, now the other part, someone who has already been baptized but not in the right baptism cannot receive the holy spirit until they are under the right baptism not my words and the bible clearly gave an example of this, it showed the people had believed in God but the holy spirit did not come, then paul asked unto what were they baptized then when they were not baptized in the right baptism paul showed them what the right baptism was THEN they receive the holy spirit, not my words can only point out what the bible shows
E
see what, that we have a different gospel then they had? that Gods holds us to a different standard than them? That God gave them these list of laws and religious traditions and ceremonies such as passover and circumcision, yet non of those works would help save anyone. then all of a sudden, when Jesus said, "it is finished" that it is not finished, and he is going to add one work of righteousness required of us, and not of them (baptism) to be saved.
I can't believe you can;t see this. You have them saved by faith, and us saved by a work.
ok now that we got this out of the way, let's get to the other part, what happens if someone has the wrong baptism? and what happens if someone has already been baptized in a baptism other than the name of Lord Jesus Christ, will they still receive the holy spirit, and does the right baptism matter or can we baptized in anything we please and still receive the holy spirit?
E
well since jesus said we are saved by faith in him, And since this brings about remission of sin. and since Paul says we are justified by faith apart from works.
then would it matter.
who is going to baptise in the name of john Today? or anyone else. if they are, I doubt they have the real gospel. so would not question their baptism, but their gospel and eternal destiny.
as for others.
tell me.
If I am baptised in the name of Jesus, am I more saved than someone baptized in the name of the father son and spirit? or less saved?
E
does it matter? How did they get to heaven? By faith or something else?
Jesus had not paid the debt yet. thats why they did not get the spirit. and why they waited until christ died to have their salvation secured.
did they have a different gospel or not?
You trying to say Jesus said it was a requirement to be saved.
I am saying it is a cammand we should obey, but (as all commands) has no bearing on our salvation.
huge difference my friend.
Jesus had not paid the debt yet. thats why they did not get the spirit. and why they waited until christ died to have their salvation secured.
did they have a different gospel or not?
You trying to say Jesus said it was a requirement to be saved.
I am saying it is a cammand we should obey, but (as all commands) has no bearing on our salvation.
huge difference my friend.
you see brother eg the finite minds of human beings can't understand the infinite mind of God they can't understand how it can be the same thing from genesis to revelation all the time, it's just to much for them, and it wouldn't make you more save it would make you saved because that is the only way, if some would've been baptized in Jesus name and some in father son holy spirit i would tell you it can be either way but no such thing like that is in the bible and you know that too, and i wish others would realize that also, not a single person was baptized in father son holy spirit throughout the entire bible, show me one person who was baptized in that and i will say that i am wrong, but God doesn't change brother eg if the people didn't receive the holy spirit because they were under John's baptism and not the baptism in Jesus name well it has to be the same thing today, if someone is under father son holy spirit they will not receive the baptism of the holy spirit remember what the bible says
[h=3]2 Timothy 3:16[/h]King James Version (KJV)
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
so we have to take everything and compare it to our present times and actually ask ourselves like ok, back in the days certain people did not receive the holy spirit because they were not baptized in Jesus Name then you can ask yourself like could being under the baptism of father son holy spirit hinder me from receiving the holy spirit as it did to the people back in the day when they had the wrong baptism ? i'm not meaning to offend anyone but im obligated to speak 100% the word of God even if it may hurt... and the truth is if some is baptized in father son holy spirit, it will hinder them from receiving the holy spirit, not because i said so but the bible gave us an example to show us that if we are under the wrong baptism we cannot receive the holy spirit
[h=3]2 Timothy 3:16[/h]King James Version (KJV)
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
so we have to take everything and compare it to our present times and actually ask ourselves like ok, back in the days certain people did not receive the holy spirit because they were not baptized in Jesus Name then you can ask yourself like could being under the baptism of father son holy spirit hinder me from receiving the holy spirit as it did to the people back in the day when they had the wrong baptism ? i'm not meaning to offend anyone but im obligated to speak 100% the word of God even if it may hurt... and the truth is if some is baptized in father son holy spirit, it will hinder them from receiving the holy spirit, not because i said so but the bible gave us an example to show us that if we are under the wrong baptism we cannot receive the holy spirit
not according to what people said and he had the keys of the kingdom, and no it's not work it's something we must do, it's not our own work doesn't mean we trying to earn salvation it's something we must do
[h=3]Acts 2:37-38[/h]King James Version (KJV)
37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
if you can't accept that and say what the bible is false well then nothing else i can do and, but i choose to believe the word, everysingle other translation said the same thing weather the wording may be right or wrong it's still preaching the same thing repent and be baptized same exact thing
38 And Peter answered them, Repent (change your views and purpose to accept the will of God in your inner selves instead of rejecting it) and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of and release from your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
38 Peter replied, “Each of you must repent of your sins and turn to God, and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. Then you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
38 Peter said to them, “Repent, and each one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
38 Peter said to them, “Repent, and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
everyone single translation preaches the same exact thing, repent and, repent And, not just repent... repent AND be baptized
[h=3]Acts 2:37-38[/h]King James Version (KJV)
37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
if you can't accept that and say what the bible is false well then nothing else i can do and, but i choose to believe the word, everysingle other translation said the same thing weather the wording may be right or wrong it's still preaching the same thing repent and be baptized same exact thing
38 And Peter answered them, Repent (change your views and purpose to accept the will of God in your inner selves instead of rejecting it) and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of and release from your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
38 Peter replied, “Each of you must repent of your sins and turn to God, and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. Then you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
38 Peter said to them, “Repent, and each one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
38 Peter said to them, “Repent, and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
everyone single translation preaches the same exact thing, repent and, repent And, not just repent... repent AND be baptized
E
lol. God is not the author of confusion. People are saved the same way. God did not negate the Old Testament works to replace it with the NT works as the roman church says.
I see it this way. As I have to look at it this way.
1. jesus made a mistake when he said baptise in the name of father son and HS
2. The disciples made a mistake when they only baptised in the name of Jesus, and not as he said.
3. It does not matter (in which case, trying to argue the point causes disunity and makes the church look bad)
as for when people recieved the spirit.
1. Some recieved after baptism
2. Some received it before
3. Some received it only after laying on of hands (we would expect this in a new system (church) trying to break away from judaism and paganism, as God used these signs to help people see the new way. But once that way became well established, we would see these signs fade away, which we did.)
which should make us open our eyes, and see it was not the baptism which saved them, it was their faith in Christ. Same is in the OT.
The only thing which will hinder a person from recieving the HS is lack of faith in God. and rejection of the gospel. Not how one is baptised.
Lets get real now!
I see it this way. As I have to look at it this way.
1. jesus made a mistake when he said baptise in the name of father son and HS
2. The disciples made a mistake when they only baptised in the name of Jesus, and not as he said.
3. It does not matter (in which case, trying to argue the point causes disunity and makes the church look bad)
as for when people recieved the spirit.
1. Some recieved after baptism
2. Some received it before
3. Some received it only after laying on of hands (we would expect this in a new system (church) trying to break away from judaism and paganism, as God used these signs to help people see the new way. But once that way became well established, we would see these signs fade away, which we did.)
which should make us open our eyes, and see it was not the baptism which saved them, it was their faith in Christ. Same is in the OT.
The only thing which will hinder a person from recieving the HS is lack of faith in God. and rejection of the gospel. Not how one is baptised.
Lets get real now!
E
Then the bible contradicts itself.
The greek does not say repent and be baptised;. It says to ALL people, repent and you will recieve the gift of the HS. Just like Jesus said. Believe in the name of him and you will be saved (recieve the spirit) Whoever believes in him shall not die, but has eternal life (through the spirit and remission of sin) He who believes is not condemned, but he who does not believe shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides in him. Whoever believes in me will not die, live forever, be raised on the last day. No mention of baptizm in ANY of these passages. so what did Christ leave this very important dead out of his message? Was he trying to confuse people? Which is it??
Over and over and over it says this.
What does acts 2: 39 say? And those who believed (thus those who repented, and were given eternal life based on their belief in Christ) were baptized.
It fits perfect with scripture.
saying one must repent AND be baptised to be saved does not. Period.
The greek does not say repent and be baptised;. It says to ALL people, repent and you will recieve the gift of the HS. Just like Jesus said. Believe in the name of him and you will be saved (recieve the spirit) Whoever believes in him shall not die, but has eternal life (through the spirit and remission of sin) He who believes is not condemned, but he who does not believe shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides in him. Whoever believes in me will not die, live forever, be raised on the last day. No mention of baptizm in ANY of these passages. so what did Christ leave this very important dead out of his message? Was he trying to confuse people? Which is it??
Over and over and over it says this.
What does acts 2: 39 say? And those who believed (thus those who repented, and were given eternal life based on their belief in Christ) were baptized.
It fits perfect with scripture.
saying one must repent AND be baptised to be saved does not. Period.
Do you think of God as a small god, unable to keep His word? What was said to them at that time was also said to us today! It means what it says. However, you seem to be caught up in something else. You also seem to be straining at a gnat while swallowing the camel. The truth has come before you on several fronts and you turn your head away just like the scribes and Pharisees did.
The funny thing is ... that Josh321 simply believed what scriptures said, and with faith, put that belief into action. And, he repented, found a church that would water baptize him in Jesus name (not father, son, holy ghost), and was filled with the Holy Spirit, just like they were filled in the book of Acts!
The amazing thing about all that is, he is not alone!
God bless!
E
No, But evidently you do.
He says in John 16. whoever believes in him will never perish but has eternal life. You want to add the word baptism to this.
He says in John 6. Whoever believes in him will never hunger, thirst, or die, He will live Live forever, and given his assurance he will raise them to eternal life on the last day. But not according to you. We have to add the word baptism. Poor God that he forgot the very important step. How many are in hell because they did not get this step right??
Thats funny. The scribes and pharisees taught works. You are too. I am just beling like paul and tell you that no work can save us, Only our faith in Christ. So who is the scribe and pharisee here??
lol.. Thats funny. I came to my lord in faith. Humbled myself at the cross. And repented with my understanding I am worthy of condemnation. And admitted there was NOTHING I could do to help myself. And ask God to give me the promise he offers to all men based on his son's FINISHED work on the cross. And I received the HS just like they did.
I was finally baptized like 3 months later (our baptismal was broke, and it was the middle of winter)
Of course, If what you say is true, and I died before that three month period. I would be waiting for hell now.
Thank God his gospel is not the way you claim it is. And it is EXACTLY the way God promised it would be.
And there are many more like me!!
H
Brother EG I have to say how can I put my faith in one who makes a mistake? Meaning that he is not perfect?
I know I am kind of jumping into the conversation half-cocked, but "1. jesus made a mistake when he said baptise in the name of father son and HS" ? I believe Jesus was and is perfect, meaning he makes no mistakes. Unless you meant something else Brother EG?
This topic never ceases to amaze me. Do we not all understand that there is a baptism of the Holy Spirit performed only by God and immediately at the moment we receive Christ as our Savior? There is a baptism of water that is non salvitic. Water cannot confer eternal life. Men baptize with water for it is all they can do. Water being a natural element is corrupted by sin which corrupted the whole world. Are we to believe that a corrupt element makes us pure and holy? Only the Holy Spirit is pure and holy and able to make us pure and holy.
I believe it is shameful to stand in the way of sinners and make them jump into the baptismal pool with the idea that they can only be saved after man's baptism.
When were the apostles saved?
For the cause of Christ
Roger
I believe it is shameful to stand in the way of sinners and make them jump into the baptismal pool with the idea that they can only be saved after man's baptism.
When were the apostles saved?
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Did he say that and did he make a mistake? As I have said many times, you do not make a doctrine out of one verse of scripture, which most trinitarian baptisers do.
One. If Jesus did say that, why did the New Testament Church totally ignore him which they did as every case of baptism was ALWAYS in the name of Jesus or something similar.
If every other verse is different to the one being isolated, it is a good case to reject the one and when we do to find out why.
Two. Jesus said to baptise in THE NAME of the father, son and holy spirit. That being the case and the fact that every time someone was baptised they were baptised in the name of Jesus or something similar would suggest that when Jesus told them to baptise in THE NAME, they understood the name was Jesus or something similar.
Three. In the original Greek, the word NAME means "A NAME" so when has the term father, son and holy spirit been "A NAME?" They are titles not names. I wouldn't say "let me introduce you to my father. His name is father." In addition it implies that something is done in the authority or character of a person and as we know all power and authority is given to Jesus not the father, son and holy ghost.
When I did a study of this subject I noticed in 99% of cases, what was done was done in the name of Jesus so that means the overwhelming evidence is that the power is in the name of Jesus so it is not surprising that we are told that whatever we do, we are to do it in the name of Jesus. There is no mention of doing anything in the titles of the father, son and holy spirit.
One. If Jesus did say that, why did the New Testament Church totally ignore him which they did as every case of baptism was ALWAYS in the name of Jesus or something similar.
If every other verse is different to the one being isolated, it is a good case to reject the one and when we do to find out why.
Two. Jesus said to baptise in THE NAME of the father, son and holy spirit. That being the case and the fact that every time someone was baptised they were baptised in the name of Jesus or something similar would suggest that when Jesus told them to baptise in THE NAME, they understood the name was Jesus or something similar.
Three. In the original Greek, the word NAME means "A NAME" so when has the term father, son and holy spirit been "A NAME?" They are titles not names. I wouldn't say "let me introduce you to my father. His name is father." In addition it implies that something is done in the authority or character of a person and as we know all power and authority is given to Jesus not the father, son and holy ghost.
When I did a study of this subject I noticed in 99% of cases, what was done was done in the name of Jesus so that means the overwhelming evidence is that the power is in the name of Jesus so it is not surprising that we are told that whatever we do, we are to do it in the name of Jesus. There is no mention of doing anything in the titles of the father, son and holy spirit.