Is the right baptism necessary for salvation?

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mustaphadrink

Senior Member
Dec 13, 2013
1,987
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I believe it is shameful to stand in the way of sinners and make them jump into the baptismal pool with the idea that they can only be saved after man's baptism.
Tell me this. Why did Peter tell the listeners on the day of pentecost that to be saved they had to repent AND be baptised and why did the listeners repent and get baptised?
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
I don't think that you will find any indication in scripture that being baptised is deemed works. If it is, then Peter on the day of pentecost said that they could not be saved unless they performed the works of baptism.
1. Peter did not say that on pentecost. Your mistranslated version says so.
2. Baptism is a work. God did not repace the work of circumcision with baptism. and say one never saved anyone, and another did.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Tell me this. Why did Peter tell the listeners on the day of pentecost that to be saved they had to repent AND be baptised and why did the listeners repent and get baptised?
he didn't. He told them to repent. Then told those who repented to be baptized.
 

mustaphadrink

Senior Member
Dec 13, 2013
1,987
371
83
he didn't. He told them to repent. Then told those who repented to be baptized.
Acts 2:38

(ASV) And Peter said unto them, Repent ye, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ unto the remission of your sins; and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.


(BBE) And Peter said, Let your hearts be changed, every one of you, and have baptism in the name of Jesus Christ, for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will have the Holy Spirit given to you.


(CEV) Peter said, "Turn back to God! Be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ, so that your sins will be forgiven. Then you will be given the Holy Spirit.


(ISV) Peter answered them, "Every one of you must repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus the Messiah for the forgiveness of your sins. Then you will receive the Holy Spirit as a gift.


(KJV) Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


(LITV) And Peter said to them, Repent and be baptized, each of you on the name of Jesus Christ to remission of sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.


(MKJV) Then Peter said to them, Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ to remission of sins, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.


(Webster) Then Peter said to them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ, for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.


(WNT) "Repent," replied Peter, "and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ, with a view to the remission of your sins, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.


(YLT) and Peter said unto them, `Reform, and be baptized each of you on the name of Jesus Christ, to remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit,

Now as I understand English and I should as I taught English, it says that if we want remission of our sins we have to repent and be baptised.

There is no indication here, that Peter went round to find out who had repented. He was addressing the crowd and told them all regardless of whether they had repented or not that if they wanted remission of sins, they had to repent and be baptised.

If you are unable to understand these basics of English, your interpretation of scripture is going to be whatever you make up at any given time.
 
S

ScaryJS97

Guest
Tell me, what are we saved by: Christ's blood and resurrection, or by works?

"For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast." ~ Ephesians 2:8-9.

"He saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to His own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit," ~ Titus 3:5.

Baptism of water is important in publicly declaring and confessing your faith in Christ, but it is not necessary for salvation. Scripture says that Christ's death alone is payment enough for our sins (Romans 5:8, 2 Corinthians 5:21, John 3:16, Acts 16:31, Ephesians 2:8-9, Titus 3:5).

Please also consider that the same man who wrote Acts 2:38, which is the Apostle Paul, also wrote these verses:

"I am thankful that I did not baptize any of you except Crispus and Gaius" ~ 1 Corinthians 1:14.

"For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel—not with words of human wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power
" ~ 1 Corinthians 1:17.

Paul isn't contradicting himself here. Salvation is by faith in Christ alone, but we are asked to be baptised as a public testimony of our faith, for the glory of God. Especially back then because, with baptism being a public declaration of faith in Christ, if one were to refuse baptism then it would indicate that actually that person did not want to confess Jesus as Saviour. However, if one is not baptised, that doesn't mean that they're no longer saved. You can still have true faith in Christ and not be baptised. I am personally not baptised yet, but I publicly declare right now that Jesus Christ is Lord and Saviour, and I believe it. Am I saved? Well let's see what the Scripture says of me, shall we?

"If you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. As the Scripture says, "Anyone who trusts in Him will never be put to shame."" ~ Romans 10:9-11.

I think it is highly important that you read these, lest you continue to preach false doctrine:

Is baptism necessary for salvation?

Does Acts 2:38 teach that baptism is necessary for salvation?

I'm praying for you, Mustaphadrink. God bless.
 

Elizabeth619

Senior Member
Jul 19, 2011
6,397
109
48
if baptism is no big deal then why was it mentioned so often for believers to do so?
 
S

ScaryJS97

Guest
if baptism is no big deal then why was it mentioned so often for believers to do so?
I think baptism is a big deal, but that does not mean it's necessary for salvation. It is a public declaration that Jesus is Lord, so as to glorify Him. But what has saved us? Is it water? Or is it faith in Christ, His death and resurrection? The Bible claims that we are saved by the latter.
 

Elizabeth619

Senior Member
Jul 19, 2011
6,397
109
48
Tell me, what are we saved by: Christ's blood and resurrection, or by works?

"For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast." ~ Ephesians 2:8-9.

"He saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to His own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit," ~ Titus 3:5.

Baptism of water is important in publicly declaring and confessing your faith in Christ, but it is not necessary for salvation. Scripture says that Christ's death alone is payment enough for our sins (Romans 5:8, 2 Corinthians 5:21, John 3:16, Acts 16:31, Ephesians 2:8-9, Titus 3:5).

Please also consider that the same man who wrote Acts 2:38, which is the Apostle Paul, also wrote these verses:

"I am thankful that I did not baptize any of you except Crispus and Gaius" ~ 1 Corinthians 1:14.

"For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel—not with words of human wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power
" ~ 1 Corinthians 1:17.

Paul isn't contradicting himself here. Salvation is by faith in Christ alone, but we are asked to be baptised as a public testimony of our faith, for the glory of God. Especially back then because, with baptism being a public declaration of faith in Christ, if one were to refuse baptism then it would indicate that actually that person did not want to confess Jesus as Saviour. However, if one is not baptised, that doesn't mean that they're no longer saved. You can still have true faith in Christ and not be baptised. I am personally not baptised yet, but I publicly declare right now that Jesus Christ is Lord and Saviour, and I believe it. Am I saved? Well let's see what the Scripture says of me, shall we?

"If you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. As the Scripture says, "Anyone who trusts in Him will never be put to shame."" ~ Romans 10:9-11.

I think it is highly important that you read these, lest you continue to preach false doctrine:

Is baptism necessary for salvation?

Does Acts 2:38 teach that baptism is necessary for salvation?

I'm praying for you, Mustaphadrink. God bless.
why are you only posting only PARTS of 1 Cor 1? Read the whole context.

10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you, but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.
11 For it hath been reported unto me about you, my brethren, by those who are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you.
12 Now this I say, when every one of you saith, “I am of Paul,” and “I of Apollos,” and “I of Cephas,” and “I of Christ”:
13 Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?
14 I thank God that I baptized none of you but Crispus and Gaius,
15 lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.
16 And I baptized also the household of Stephanas. Besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.
17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the Gospel, and not with the wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of no effect.
18 For the preaching of the cross is foolishness to those who perish; but unto us who are saved, it is the power of God.
 

Elizabeth619

Senior Member
Jul 19, 2011
6,397
109
48
I think baptism is a big deal, but that does not mean it's necessary for salvation. It is a public declaration that Jesus is Lord, so as to glorify Him. But what has saved us? Is it water? Or is it faith in Christ, His death and resurrection? The Bible claims that we are saved by the latter.
Everyone knows water doesn't "save" a person. That argument is a diversion of what baptism is. It is a command by God to do so, and it is appalling that people protest it so much.
 
S

ScaryJS97

Guest
why are you only posting only PARTS of 1 Cor 1? Read the whole context.

10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you, but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.
11 For it hath been reported unto me about you, my brethren, by those who are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you.
12 Now this I say, when every one of you saith, “I am of Paul,” and “I of Apollos,” and “I of Cephas,” and “I of Christ”:
13 Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?
14 I thank God that I baptized none of you but Crispus and Gaius,
15 lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.
16 And I baptized also the household of Stephanas. Besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.
17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the Gospel, and not with the wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of no effect.
18 For the preaching of the cross is foolishness to those who perish; but unto us who are saved, it is the power of God.
Granted, in this passage Paul is arguing against the divisions that plagued the Corinthian church. However, how could Paul possibly say, “I am thankful that I did not baptize…” or “For Christ did not send me to baptize…” if baptism were necessary for salvation? If baptism is necessary for salvation, Paul would literally be saying, “I am thankful that you were not saved…” and “For Christ did not send me to save…” That would be an unbelievably ridiculous statement for Paul to make.

How do you propose that the idea of being saved by faith AND baptism fits in with Romans 5:8, 2 Corinthians 5:21, John 3:16, Acts 16:31, Ephesians 2:8-9, Titus 3:5 and other verses that clearly state that salvation is through faith alone?

Please read the articles I linked to. They are based completely on Scripture.
 

mustaphadrink

Senior Member
Dec 13, 2013
1,987
371
83
I think it is highly important that you read these, lest you continue to preach false doctrine:
And I think that you as a 16 y.o. learn some respect for those old enough to be your grandfather. When you have been saved 60 years as I have; when you have been to a theological college and gained a degree as I have; when you have been to university and gained another three degrees as I have; when you have been used by God to bring revival to a church as I have; when you have been in a church for 10 years that experienced revival for 30 years as I have; when you have been State Director of a parachurch ministry as I have twice; when you have raised children and have grandchildren as I have; when you have been married for 44 years to one wife as I have; when you are an elder to the body of Christ as I am; when you have been in senior management of a multi million dollar company as I have; then you may be in a position to tell me that I am preaching false doctrine.

1 Peter 5:5. All of you young people should obey your elders. In fact, everyone should be humble toward everyone else. The Scriptures say, "God opposes proud people, but he helps everyone who is humble."
 

mustaphadrink

Senior Member
Dec 13, 2013
1,987
371
83
Everyone knows water doesn't "save" a person. That argument is a diversion of what baptism is. It is a command by God to do so, and it is appalling that people protest it so much.
Totally agree Elizabeth. I sometimes feel that they raise these arguments to cover up the fact that they don't want to obey the Lord and his word so they have to rationalise away the truth.
 

mustaphadrink

Senior Member
Dec 13, 2013
1,987
371
83
At your age scary (16) I NEVER told my Elders they were wrong. if I was unsure, I ASKED them to explain their reasoning behind what they said. That way I learnt more than by telling others they were wrong.
 

Elizabeth619

Senior Member
Jul 19, 2011
6,397
109
48
Granted, in this passage Paul is arguing against the divisions that plagued the Corinthian church. However, how could Paul possibly say, “I am thankful that I did not baptize…” or “For Christ did not send me to baptize…” if baptism were necessary for salvation? If baptism is necessary for salvation, Paul would literally be saying, “I am thankful that you were not saved…” and “For Christ did not send me to save…” That would be an unbelievably ridiculous statement for Paul to make.

How do you propose that the idea of being saved by faith AND baptism fits in with Romans 5:8, 2 Corinthians 5:21, John 3:16, Acts 16:31, Ephesians 2:8-9, Titus 3:5 and other verses that clearly state that salvation is through faith alone?

Please read the articles I linked to. They are based completely on Scripture.
So why did Peter say to be baptized for the remission of sins?
 

Elizabeth619

Senior Member
Jul 19, 2011
6,397
109
48
Baptism is a rite that is accompanied by both faith an repentance.
Mark 16:16 He that believes and is baptized shall be saved.

Acts 2:38 Repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins..
 

Elizabeth619

Senior Member
Jul 19, 2011
6,397
109
48
Granted, in this passage Paul is arguing against the divisions that plagued the Corinthian church. However, how could Paul possibly say, “I am thankful that I did not baptize…” or “For Christ did not send me to baptize…” if baptism were necessary for salvation? If baptism is necessary for salvation, Paul would literally be saying, “I am thankful that you were not saved…” and “For Christ did not send me to save…” That would be an unbelievably ridiculous statement for Paul to make.

How do you propose that the idea of being saved by faith AND baptism fits in with Romans 5:8, 2 Corinthians 5:21, John 3:16, Acts 16:31, Ephesians 2:8-9, Titus 3:5 and other verses that clearly state that salvation is through faith alone?

Please read the articles I linked to. They are based completely on Scripture.
Why would Paul baptize people who were probably already baptized? Corinthians is an epistle WRITTEN TO A CHURCH(christians) and were probably already baptized.