Romans Chapter 9

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Mar 4, 2013
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#81
If I am subject to the law. I am condemned by it. FACTS not fiction.

What part of the law do I need to obey to serve my nieghbor and do unto him as Christ will have me serve him? To act towards him as Christ acted to those who he came in contact with.

What part of the law do I need to obey to serve my wife and family by financially taking care of them. Helping them to do Gods will in their lives, And helping ans supporting them to maturity in Christ?

What part of the law do I need to obay to share Christ with my coworkers and friend?

what part of the law do I need to obey to help my fellow church leaders to Sheppard the flock? To serve them. To love them. And to disciple them?

What part of the law do I need to obey to do my secular work where I make the mondy to take care of my family? And serve not only my bosses, but my coworkers in a way which glorifies God?

What part of the law do I need to look to the spirit. And keep my eyes on him??

I can go on and on and on.
Post 78. It is obvious you didn't read it. All you care about is talking about your disdain for the law. Time to ignore, for God dos not approve.

Titus 3:1-11 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]Put them in mind to be subject to principalities and powers, to obey magistrates, to be ready to every good work,
[SUP]2 [/SUP]To speak evil of no man, to be no brawlers, but gentle, shewing all meekness unto all men.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
[SUP]7 [/SUP]That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.
 
Mar 4, 2013
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#82
Christ is the END of the Law for righteousness to everyone who believes. (from Romans 10)

In Christ, righteousness is a free Gift (and is the Righteousness of God Himself), not something achieved. (Romans 5, 2 Cor. 5)

-JGIG
End means complete fulfilled, not negated, otherwise Paul would have never mentioned that it was Spiritual, holy, good, and just
 
Mar 4, 2013
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#83
So you offer burnt offerings, animal sacrifices, purifications, pray daily in the temple, have battlement for the roof of the house Deut 22:8 Why would Paul spend an entire epistle of Galatians condemning them for leaving Christ's NT gospel going back to the law of Moses? Why in Rom 7:1-6 Paul says a Christian who is married to Christ and His NT gospel but also keeps the law of Moses is a type of adulterer just as a woman who already is married marries another man is an adulteress?
What does fire do? Matthew 3:11 (KJV)
[SUP]11 [/SUP]I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

What does that mean? Destruction and refined in my book.

Leviticus 1:4 (KJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And he shall put his hand upon the head of the burnt offering; and it shall be accepted for him to make atonement for him.

If one connects with the sacrifice who is Christ the flesh is destroyed by the baptizing of fire that Jesus brings. It's in the law.

That was a foolish question. asking if one still offers animals. you know better.
 
Mar 4, 2013
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#84
2 Timothy 2:23-26 (KJV)
[SUP]23 [/SUP]But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,
[SUP]25 [/SUP]In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
[SUP]26 [/SUP]And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.
 

JGIG

Senior Member
Aug 2, 2013
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#85
They do not understand that the law demands PERFECTION. And according to the law. Not only are we not perfect. We will never be perfect until the day we die.
Yet God regards us as perfect in Christ:

11 And every priest stands daily at his service, offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. 12 But when Christ had offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins, he
sat down at the right hand of God, 13 waiting from that time until his enemies should be made a footstool for his feet.

14 For by a single offering
he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified. (from Heb. 10)

There is nothing else that Christ has to do to make us perfect in God's sight - it is finished; Christ sat down a the right hand of God, something that priests in the Old Covenant were never permitted to do because their work was never done. There were always more sins - for themselves and for Israel - for which they had to make sacrifices.

While your comment above is accurate, it's not altogether true. Until we receive our incorruptible body, in this life, we will still sin. That is accurate, but the higher Truth is that in Christ, in the midst of our condition, our position is one of perfect holiness in Christ. That is truth regarding our position according to the fact that we have been given the gift of God's Righteousness in Christ when we believed. And God's Righteousness is a perfect Righteousness.

There's a doctrine floating around out there called, "sinless perfection", that claims that in this life we can be sinless; perfect in the flesh. While we expect our sinning to become less and less over time as we are taught by Grace and grow and mature in faith, sinless perfection in this life . Think about how Abraham, under Grace, did lots of bad things, but over time his condition became more and more in line with his position by faith - that of righteousness gifted to him because he believed God.


For this reason. The Law will ALWAYS condemn us to death.


God abolished the Law for those in Christ, and as a covenantal system it has been rendered obsolete in Christ (Eph. 2:15, Heb. 8:13). Not only that, but in Christ we have also died to the Law and are released from it (Eph. 2:15 and Romans 7:1-6, Gal. 2) and where there is no Law, there is no transgression (Romans 4 and 5). We died with Christ so even though we still sin (less and less as we grow and mature in Grace), God is not counting our sins against us (2 Cor. 518-19).

Because the Law will always condemn us, we had to be released from it to come into relationship with a holy God. Even though we still sin as believers, those sins are not counted against us because we have been released from the Law, and where there is no Law, there is no transgression.

So the point I'm trying to make is that though it's accurate that we still sin as believers, the truth is that in Christ, it's as if those sins don't exist. - because of the Work of Christ, God is not counting mankind's sins against them. The only sin held against mankind this side of the Cross is the sin of unbelief. Once one believes, they are sealed by the Holy Spirit (Eph. 1), guaranteeing them until the day of Redemption. That's not to say that sinning does not result in consequences for the believer in THIS life. Sinning absolutely does - sinning is destructive to us and those around us, and it hinders the bearing of the Fruit of the Spirit.

Unless the blood of Jesus Christ washes us from all sin, we are under law. And rightly condemned. The law was ONLY removed once a person comes to Christ, Because the law can no longer condemn those people. For those outside of Christ, The law continually condemns them, and will until they turn to Christ for his help.

Right. Turning to Law for how to 'live right' also puts the believer under condemnation, again, because that is all the Law can do; it has no power to perfect anything:

18 The former regulation is set aside because it was weak and useless 19 (for the law made nothing perfect), and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God. (from Heb. 7)


And that's why God rendered Law obsolete as a functioning covenant and introduced a better covenant built on better promises by which we draw near to God. A covenant that does make us perfect in Christ, even while we wait for our flesh to be glorified.

Different streams of belief have different formulas and/or laws that they deem it necessary to hold to; some say Torah observance/pursuance is required to 'stay' saved; others believe that repeated confession and repentance is required to 'stay' saved; others hold to an extra-biblical set of rules of conduct. They are trying to 'do' the work that the Holy Spirit has already done, and continues to do by Grace, if they'd only let Him. Unfortunately, they ignore Grace as the Helper He sent by coming under systems/formulas/laws that God does not require of us:


18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. (from Gal. 5)


We are such poor substitutes for the work of the Spirit and His Grace. We don't get nearly the results He does, either!

Grace or Law? How Then, Shall We Live?



-JGIG
 
K

Karraster

Guest
#86
It is mind boggling to me that any rational human would think our Creator of the universe has left us to our own devices without any instructions! Talk about a "dog eat dog" world. Chaotic for sure!

The carnal hates instructions of God, the spiritual loves them, because it is clear that the instructions (law, per translations) is loving protection, a hedge around us.

Grace is what allows us to do God's teaching and instruction, it is not a license to sin.

Only the criminally minded would love a world devoid of law. Faith in Messiah, and keep His commands. It's what He told us to do.
 

JGIG

Senior Member
Aug 2, 2013
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#87
When a person says the Law is abolished it demonstrates how uneducated he/she is about the profound plan El Elyon has had for us since the beginning of time. They don't understand covenants at all because if they did they would easily see how the "Old" has in NO WAY been abolished.
Keep sharing truth, sister!

Ephesians 2:14-16

14 For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation,
15
having >>> abolished G2673 – katargeō <<< in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, 16 and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity.


The Law IS abolished for those IN CHRIST:

Romans 7:4-6

4 Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another—to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God. 5 For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death. 6 But now we have been >>> delivered G2673 – katargeō <<< from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.

G2673 – katargeō is translated as both ‘abolished’ in Eph. 2:15 and as ‘delivered’ in Rom. 7:6.

Here’s the definition:
1) to render idle, unemployed, inactivate, inoperative
a) to cause a person or thing to have no further efficiency
b) to deprive of force, influence, power
2) to cause to cease, put an end to, do away with, annul, abolish
a) to cease, to pass away, be done away
b) to be severed from, separated from, discharged from, loosed from any one
c) to terminate all intercourse with one



That’s talkin’ about the Law for those in Christ, folks!

The Law, for those in Christ, is these things:


➞ idle

➞ unemployed

➞ inactive (!!!)


➞ inoperative (!!!)


➞ to cause a person to have no further efficiency


➞ to deprive of force, influence, power (!!!)


➞ to cause to cease, put an end to, do away with,
annul, abolish (!!!)

➞ to cease, to pass away, be done away (!!!)


➞ to be severed from, separated from, discharged from,
loosed from any one (!!!)

➞ to terminate all intercourse with one (!!!)



When a person says the Law is abolished it demonstrates how uneducated he/she is about the profound plan El Elyon has had for us since the beginning of time.
Law was never His original plan for mankind; He gave us the choice between the Tree of LIFE and the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. Man chose unwisely and continues to do so.

They don't understand covenants at all because if they did they would easily see how the "Old" has in NO WAY been abolished.
It's not the Mosaic Covenant that was not set aside by the New Covenant, but the Abrahamic Covenant that was not set aside by the Mosaic Covenant according to the Scriptures:


15 To give a human example, brothers: even with a man-made covenant, no one annuls it or adds to it once it has been ratified. 16 Now the promises were made to Abraham and to his offspring. It does not say, “And to offsprings,” referring to many, but referring to one, “And to your offspring,” who is Christ. 17
This is what I mean: the law, which came 430 years afterward, does not annul a covenant previously ratified by God [the Abrahamic Covenant], so as to make the promise [to Abraham - the promise of righteousness by faith] void. 18 For if the inheritance comes by the law, it no longer comes by promise; but God gave it to Abraham by a promise.

19 Why then the law? It was added because of transgressions, until the offspring should come to whom the promise had been made, and it was put in place through angels by an intermediary. 20 Now an intermediary implies more than one, but God is one.

21 Is the law then contrary to the promises of God? Certainly not! For if a law had been given that could give life, then righteousness would indeed be by the law. 22 But the Scripture imprisoned everything under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

23 Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed.

24 So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith. 25
But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian, 26 for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith. 27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise. (from Gal. 3)



Instead, it IS the Mosaic Covenant that is rendered obsolete in Christ and replaced by the New Covenant as the way to draw near to God. Interestingly, neither does the New Covenant set aside the Abrahamic Covenant, but fulfills it as well, as we enter into the Promise given to Abraham by faith in Christ - the Perfect High Priest of the New Covenant:

11 If perfection could have been attained through the Levitical priesthood—and indeed the law given to the people established that priesthood—why was there still need for another priest to come, one in the order of Melchizedek, not in the order of Aaron?

12 For when the priesthood is changed, the law must be changed also.


18 The former regulation is set aside because it was weak and useless

19 (for the law made nothing perfect), and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God. (from Heb. 7)

6
But in fact the ministry Jesus has received is as superior to theirs as the covenant of which he is mediator is superior to the old one, since the new covenant is established on better promises.

7 For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another.

13 By calling this covenant “new,”
he has made the first one obsolete; [We know the Mosaic Covenant is the one spoken of here, as the letter to the Hebrews is all about comparing and contrasting the Levitical system to the Messianic system] and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear. (from Heb. 8)







-JGIG




 
K

Karraster

Guest
#88
So Grace empowers you to be childish and rude? It doesn't matter at all how we act because Jesus paid with His blood for us to do what seems right in our own eyes...growingingrace..ok.
 

JGIG

Senior Member
Aug 2, 2013
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#89
So Grace empowers you to be childish and rude? It doesn't matter at all how we act because Jesus paid with His blood for us to do what seems right in our own eyes...growingingrace..ok.
11 For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people. 12 It teaches us to say “No” to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age, 13 while we wait for the blessed hope—the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, 14 who gave himself for us to redeem us from all wickedness and to purify for himself a people that are his very own, eager to do what is good.

15 These, then, are the things you should teach. Encourage and rebuke with all authority. Do not let anyone despise you. (from Titus 2)​



-JGIG
 
K

Karraster

Guest
#90
11 For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people. 12 It teaches us to say “No” to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age, 13 while we wait for the blessed hope—the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, 14 who gave himself for us to redeem us from all wickedness and to purify for himself a people that are his very own, eager to do what is good.

15 These, then, are the things you should teach. Encourage and rebuke with all authority. Do not let anyone despise you. (from Titus 2)​



-JGIG
Hebrews 10
[SUP]15 [/SUP]And the Ruach HaKodesh too bears witness to us; for after saying,
[SUP]16 [/SUP]“ ‘This is the covenant which I will make
with them after those days,’ says Adonai:
‘I will put my Torah on their hearts,
and write it on their minds . . . ,’ ”[SUP][c][/SUP]
 

JGIG

Senior Member
Aug 2, 2013
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#91
Hebrews 10
[SUP]15 [/SUP]And the Ruach HaKodesh too bears witness to us; for after saying,
[SUP]16 [/SUP]“ ‘This is the covenant which I will make
with them after those days,’ says Adonai:
‘I will put my Torah on their hearts,
and write it on their minds . . . ,’ ”[SUP][c][/SUP]
What 'translation' are you using there, Karraster?

Beyond that, Torah, according to most Torah folk, simply means 'instructions', yes?

What are God's instructions after the Cross?

23 And this is his commandment, that we believe in the name of his Son Jesus Christ and love one another, just as he has commanded us. 24 Whoever keeps his commandments abides in God, and God in him. And by this we know that he abides in us, by the Spirit whom he has given us. (from 1 Jn.)


-JGIG
 
Mar 3, 2013
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#92
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
Ephesians 2:14-16[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
14 For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation,
15 having >>> abolished G2673 – katargeō <<< in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, 16 and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity.
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]First things first: Ephesians 2:14-16 is speaking of the ENMITY being abolished, not the law! If you are going to find fault with what other people have studied extensively, it would be wise to choose accurate, relevant scriptures in making your point…with humility (large letters and bright colors draw attention but display arrogance rather than humility.)[/FONT]
 
Mar 3, 2013
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#93
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The Law IS abolished for those IN CHRIST:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
Romans 7:4-6[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]
4 Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another—to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God. 5 For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death. 6 But now we have been >>> delivered G2673 – katargeō <<< from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
G2673 – katargeō is translated as both ‘abolished’ in Eph. 2:15 and as ‘delivered’ in Rom. 7:6.

Here’s the definition:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]G2673 – katargeō [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]1) to render idle, unemployed, inactivate, inoperative [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]a) to cause a person or thing to have no further efficiency
b) to deprive of force, influence, power [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]2) to cause to cease, put an end to, do away with, annul, abolish[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]a) to cease, to pass away, be done away
b) to be severed from, separated from, discharged from, loosed from any one
c) to terminate all intercourse with one[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Secondly: The law is NOT abolished. So repeating how the word abolished is defined as in Greek is pointless here. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]When Paul wrote in Galatians 3:24-25 “[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Wherefore[/FONT][FONT=&quot] the [/FONT][FONT=&quot]law[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]was[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]our[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]schoolmaster[/FONT][FONT=&quot] to bring us [/FONT][FONT=&quot]unto[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Christ,[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]that[/FONT][FONT=&quot] we might be [/FONT][FONT=&quot]justified[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]by[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]faith.[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]But[/FONT][FONT=&quot] after that [/FONT][FONT=&quot]faith[/FONT][FONT=&quot] is [/FONT][FONT=&quot]come[/FONT][FONT=&quot], we [/FONT][FONT=&quot]are[/FONT][FONT=&quot] no [/FONT][FONT=&quot]longer[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]under[/FONT][FONT=&quot] a [/FONT][FONT=&quot]schoolmaster[/FONT][FONT=&quot],” he was not saying to forget about the law/schoolmaster. It is helpful to know that in biblical times a schoolmaster was the person who escorted the child to school so he could be taught, not the teacher as we think of it today. This escort had the same place as the law does to us now in that it shows us our need for[/FONT] Christ. To remember the route the schoolmaster taught the child to get to school is equivalent to faith for us. To negate the law is to forget the route. It was up to the child to learn after the schoolmaster dropped him off at school just as it is up to us to learn what God desires of us after we are shown how far we fall short of God’s standards by looking in the mirror the law provides for us.

[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]Romans 7:4-7 4 Therefore, my brethren, you also were made to die to the Law through the body of Christ, so that you might be joined to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God. 5 For while we were in the flesh, the sinful passions, which were aroused by the Law, were at work in the members of our body to bear fruit for death. 6 But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter. 7 What shall we say then ? Is the Law sin ? May it never be! On the contrary, I would not have come to know sin except through the Law ;
 
Mar 4, 2013
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#94
The Law IS abolished for those IN CHRIST:

Law was never His original plan for mankind; He gave us the choice between the Tree of LIFE and the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. Man chose unwisely and continues to do so.
I would agree with you if you would have said; the law needed to be in God's plan for Jesus to complete the plan.

It's not the Mosaic Covenant that was not set aside by the New Covenant, but the Abrahamic Covenant that was not set aside by the Mosaic Covenant according to the Scriptures:


Instead, it IS the Mosaic Covenant that is rendered obsolete in Christ and replaced by the New Covenant as the way to draw near to God. Interestingly, neither does the New Covenant set aside the Abrahamic Covenant, but fulfills it as well, as we enter into the Promise given to Abraham by faith in Christ - the Perfect High Priest of the New Covenant:

WOW! I do like the scriptures you posted, but I cannot reconcile your comments with these following scripture references.

Deuteronomy 18:15-19
[SUP]15 [/SUP]The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;

John 1:45 (KJV)
[SUP]45 [/SUP]Philip findeth Nathanael, and saith unto him, We have found him, of whom Moses in the law, and the prophets, did write, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.

Hebrews 10:16-18 (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
[SUP]17 [/SUP]And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

Deuteronomy 6:6 (KJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:

Hebrews 10:2-6 (KJV)
[SUP]2 [/SUP]For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
[SUP]6 [/SUP]In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.

Now I see this as correct but not like you see it. If one says the law is gone because sacrifices have ceased, what are we supposed to do with this verse?

Romans 12:1-2 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

If the law is gone in this respect, how could anyone today what the previous verse means? We have to be able to compare Spiritual with something else that is spiritual, and that would be the law in this case.

Romans 7:12 (KJV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
Romans 7:14 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP]For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

Leviticus 19:18 (KJV)
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.

Deuteronomy 6:4-5 (KJV)

[SUP]4 [/SUP]Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

Always quote these next 2 verses together. The enmity is abolished, because the law of commandments is not reveal the enmity. So many today say Jesus crucified the law. If that was the case, there would be nothing left to show us the need for salvation.

Ephesians 2:15-16 (KJV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
[SUP]16 [/SUP]And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

I could quote many scriptures, concerning the law as relevant for today, but it good to quote Jesus first in this respect. Keep in mind that heaven and earth are still here, and fulfill means to complete, not destroy and abolish.​

Matthew 5:17 (KJV)

[SUP]17 [/SUP]Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

All that Jesus taught before His death was Old Testament teaching.

Hebrews 9:16-17 (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.


John 5:46-47 (KJV)
[SUP]46 [/SUP]For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.
[SUP]47 [/SUP]But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

 
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Mar 3, 2013
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#95
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That’s talkin’ about the Law for those in Christ, folks!

The Law, for those in Christ, is these things:
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[FONT=&quot]Third: Absolutely NOT! Jesus speaks in Mark 7:[/FONT]6 -9: 6 And He said to them, "Rightly did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written : 'THIS PEOPLE HONORS ME WITH THEIR LIPS, BUT THEIR HEART IS FAR AWAY FROM ME. 7 'BUT IN VAIN DO THEY WORSHIP ME, TEACHING AS DOCTRINES THE PRECEPTS OF MEN.'8 "Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men." 9 He was also saying to them, "You are experts at setting aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition.
[FONT=&quot]And we all know what is in store for those who teach falsehoods.[/FONT]
 
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#96
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Law was never His original plan for mankind; He gave us the choice between the Tree of LIFE and the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. Man chose unwisely and continues to do so.
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Fourth: God’s plan has been in place since before creation. There are several passages of His Word that tell us so, which serves to give more evidence of His omniscience. But maybe you don’t believe God is all-knowing, all-seeing, all-wise. The God I serve doesn’t make mistakes and say, “Whoops! I better come up with a plan B because I didn’t know Adam would disobey my word and eat of the forbidden tree.”[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]John 17:4-5 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]"I [/FONT][FONT=&quot]glorified[/FONT][FONT=&quot] You on the [/FONT][FONT=&quot]earth[/FONT][FONT=&quot], having [/FONT][FONT=&quot]accomplished[/FONT][FONT=&quot] the [/FONT][FONT=&quot]work[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]which[/FONT][FONT=&quot] You have [/FONT][FONT=&quot]given[/FONT][FONT=&quot] Me to [/FONT][FONT=&quot]do[/FONT][FONT=&quot].[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]"Now[/FONT][FONT=&quot], [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Father[/FONT][FONT=&quot], [/FONT][FONT=&quot]glorify[/FONT][FONT=&quot] Me [/FONT][FONT=&quot]together[/FONT][FONT=&quot] with [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Yourself[/FONT][FONT=&quot], with the [/FONT][FONT=&quot]glory[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]which[/FONT][FONT=&quot] I [/FONT][FONT=&quot]had[/FONT][FONT=&quot] with You [/FONT][FONT=&quot]before[/FONT][FONT=&quot] the [/FONT][FONT=&quot]world[/FONT][FONT=&quot] was.[/FONT]
 
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#97
Lots of people don't read all of the posts on a particular thread so to be clear, my post #95 is referring to the repetition for a second time list given that falsely identifies the law for those in Christ as written in post #87.
 
Mar 3, 2013
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#98
It's not the Mosaic Covenant that was not set aside by the New Covenant, but the Abrahamic Covenant that was not set aside by the Mosaic Covenant according to the Scriptures:

15 To give a human example, brothers: even with a man-made covenant, no one annuls it or adds to it once it has been ratified. 16 Now the promises were made to Abraham and to his offspring. It does not say, “And to offsprings,” referring to many, but referring to one, “And to your offspring,” who is Christ. 17
This is what I mean: the law, which came 430 years afterward, does not annul a covenant previously ratified by God [the Abrahamic Covenant], so as to make the promise [to Abraham - the promise of righteousness by faith] void…..13 By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; [We know the Mosaic Covenant is the one spoken of here, as the letter to the Hebrews is all about comparing and contrasting the Levitical system to the Messianic system] and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear. (from Heb. 8)-JGIG



Finally, as Christians, we are to help one another learn, to edify one another in various scriptures. One of them is Ephesians 4:29 -- “Let no harmful language come from your mouth, only good words that are helpful in meeting the need, words that will benefit those who hear them.”

I choose to discontinue addressing every separate item and verse you posted, partly for lack of time but mostly because I have already studied – and posted what I learned about this subject. You would be wise to read all of what I posted on the thread, The New Covenant Wine Is All of God’s Word It is long but the subject required much prayerful, in-depth study and should be understood before making any false assumptions about God’s covenant, as you have done.

By the way, where you wrote “15 To give a human example, brothers: even with a man-made covenant, no one annuls it or adds to it once it has been ratified. 16 Now the promises were made to Abraham and to his offspring. It does not say, “And to offsprings,” referring to many, but referring to one, “And to your offspring,” who is Christ.” ….the word “offsprings” is not a correct word, and “offspring” is singular as well as plural in English. It is important to not use erroneous words and phrases when trying to teach someone what Almighty God has said in His Word.
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
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#99
QUOTED:

By the way, where you wrote “15 To give a human example, brothers: even with a man-made covenant, no one annuls it or adds to it once it has been ratified. 16 Now the promises were made to Abraham and to his offspring. It does not say, “And to offsprings,” referring to many, but referring to one, “And to your offspring,” who is Christ.” ….the word “offsprings” is not a correct word, and “offspring” is singular as well as plural in English. It is important to not use erroneous words and phrases when trying to teach someone what Almighty God has said in His Word.

END QUOTE...........

Not exactly sure what you are saying here............but the "promise" was to ALL of Abrams offspring........ :) That may be what you are saying, not sure, but hope so............for even the Gentiles become an "heir to the promise" by adoption.
 
Mar 4, 2013
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QUOTED:

By the way, where you wrote “15 To give a human example, brothers: even with a man-made covenant, no one annuls it or adds to it once it has been ratified. 16 Now the promises were made to Abraham and to his offspring. It does not say, “And to offsprings,” referring to many, but referring to one, “And to your offspring,” who is Christ.” ….the word “offsprings” is not a correct word, and “offspring” is singular as well as plural in English. It is important to not use erroneous words and phrases when trying to teach someone what Almighty God has said in His Word.

END QUOTE...........

Not exactly sure what you are saying here............but the "promise" was to ALL of Abrams offspring........ :) That may be what you are saying, not sure, but hope so............for even the Gentiles become an "heir to the promise" by adoption.
I agree with your assessment. I think JGIG is referring to Jesus only, and just-us-2 is referring to the descendants of Abraham, and the covenant made with him. I think that there is a reason for the 2 edged sword with the armor. It doesn't have just one sharpened edge.

Romans 4:16 (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,
 
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