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God gave me this verse when I was newly saved.
"And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ." Phil. 1:6
Sadly it took me many years of being lied to in Arminian churches to start to really read the Bible and see what it said. I realized God had never let go of me, and never will.
Now maybe you don't worship the God of the Bible. Maybe you think you have to work to be saved. I'm very sorry for you, because God offers salvation as a free gift. And he doesn't take back what he has given to us.
Please stop with the straw man that people who believe in eternal security are going to go out and do as they please. In fact, since I realized that salvation comes ONLY from God, I have been more eager to follow Christ and serve him with all my heart than I ever did back in those fearful days when I thought God would lose me at any second because of something I did!
God is sovereign and salvation is from God. He saves us and keeps us, and transforms us into his image! And one day we will roe and reign with him. Lots of verses to support this, if you need them!
"And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ." Phil. 1:6
Sadly it took me many years of being lied to in Arminian churches to start to really read the Bible and see what it said. I realized God had never let go of me, and never will.
Now maybe you don't worship the God of the Bible. Maybe you think you have to work to be saved. I'm very sorry for you, because God offers salvation as a free gift. And he doesn't take back what he has given to us.
Please stop with the straw man that people who believe in eternal security are going to go out and do as they please. In fact, since I realized that salvation comes ONLY from God, I have been more eager to follow Christ and serve him with all my heart than I ever did back in those fearful days when I thought God would lose me at any second because of something I did!
God is sovereign and salvation is from God. He saves us and keeps us, and transforms us into his image! And one day we will roe and reign with him. Lots of verses to support this, if you need them!
This may well be the only point of theology where we tend to disagree Sister.......... 
QUOTE: Please stop with the straw man that people who believe in eternal security are going to go out and do as they please. In fact, since I realized that salvation comes ONLY from God, I have been more eager to follow Christ and serve him with all my heart than I ever did back in those fearful days when I thought God would lose me at any second because of something I did!
God is sovereign and salvation is from God. He saves us and keeps us, and transforms us into his image! And one day we will roe and reign with him. Lots of verses to support this, if you need them!
END QUOTE.........
this is true to a point...........well pretty much all of it is true........... what you omit however is that you CHOOSE DAILY to do this.............and while it is certainly TRUTH that God will never let go of us............we CAN choose to let go of Him.......
Consider what Jesus taught as recorded in the 14th Chapter of Luke........
Luke 14:25) And there went great multitudes with him: and he turned, and said unto them,
26 .) If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.
27 .) And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.
28 .) For which of you, intending to build a tower, sitteth not down first, and counteth the cost, whether he have sufficient to finish it?
29 .) Lest haply, after he hath laid the foundation, and is not able to finish it, all that behold it begin to mock him,
30 .) Saying, This man began to build, and was not able to finish.
31 .) Or what king, going to make war against another king, sitteth not down first, and consulteth whether he be able with ten thousand to meet him that cometh against him with twenty thousand?
32 .) Or else, while the other is yet a great way off, he sendeth an ambassage, and desireth conditions of peace.
33 .) So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple.
34 .) Salt is good: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be seasoned?
35 .) It is neither fit for the land, nor yet for the dunghill; but men cast it out. He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.
this is most often referred to as the "cost of discipleship" and it is.........however it ALSO reveals that there are those who having once entered in to the faith DO NOT HAVE SUFFICIENT to finish.............just as with the seeds sown on differing ground.............
Some food for thought.............God bless..............
QUOTE: Please stop with the straw man that people who believe in eternal security are going to go out and do as they please. In fact, since I realized that salvation comes ONLY from God, I have been more eager to follow Christ and serve him with all my heart than I ever did back in those fearful days when I thought God would lose me at any second because of something I did!
God is sovereign and salvation is from God. He saves us and keeps us, and transforms us into his image! And one day we will roe and reign with him. Lots of verses to support this, if you need them!
END QUOTE.........
this is true to a point...........well pretty much all of it is true........... what you omit however is that you CHOOSE DAILY to do this.............and while it is certainly TRUTH that God will never let go of us............we CAN choose to let go of Him.......
Consider what Jesus taught as recorded in the 14th Chapter of Luke........
Luke 14:25) And there went great multitudes with him: and he turned, and said unto them,
26 .) If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.
27 .) And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.
28 .) For which of you, intending to build a tower, sitteth not down first, and counteth the cost, whether he have sufficient to finish it?
29 .) Lest haply, after he hath laid the foundation, and is not able to finish it, all that behold it begin to mock him,
30 .) Saying, This man began to build, and was not able to finish.
31 .) Or what king, going to make war against another king, sitteth not down first, and consulteth whether he be able with ten thousand to meet him that cometh against him with twenty thousand?
32 .) Or else, while the other is yet a great way off, he sendeth an ambassage, and desireth conditions of peace.
33 .) So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple.
34 .) Salt is good: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be seasoned?
35 .) It is neither fit for the land, nor yet for the dunghill; but men cast it out. He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.
this is most often referred to as the "cost of discipleship" and it is.........however it ALSO reveals that there are those who having once entered in to the faith DO NOT HAVE SUFFICIENT to finish.............just as with the seeds sown on differing ground.............
Some food for thought.............God bless..............
J
One doesn’t need to be a follower of “Calvin” in order to have Biblical understanding. In fact, Calvin promotes quite the opposite – but that’s for another discussion, I suppose.
My previous post was tongue in cheek at the ridiculousnessof the analogy. Anyone who believes there is no eternal security in Christ, doesn’t truly understand the gospel or why Jesus came to begin with. If he saved us because we are sinners, then why would he turn around and revoke our salvation because we sin? He can’t take away salvation for the same reason he grants it.
My previous post was tongue in cheek at the ridiculousnessof the analogy. Anyone who believes there is no eternal security in Christ, doesn’t truly understand the gospel or why Jesus came to begin with. If he saved us because we are sinners, then why would he turn around and revoke our salvation because we sin? He can’t take away salvation for the same reason he grants it.
A
We can learn to trust God more as we know him more. Our level of trust in God will be in harmony with our knowledge about him. We say someone is trustworthy because he has shown his strong character constantly over time. He has proven that what he says, he will do. Our God deserves our 100% trust because for thousands of years throughout the Scripture, God has shown faithfully from generation to generation how faithful he is. What he says, he will do. So we can hold him at his words."God is not a man, so he does not lie. He is not human, so he does not change his mind. Has he ever spoken and failed to act? Has he ever promised and not carried it through?" -Numbers 23:19 [NLT]
I firmly believe there is eternal security in Christ Jesus...........and I firmly believe that he will NEVER forsake us.........I also believe that we CAN forsake Him.............and that is the point............not eternal security...........Once Saved Always Saved isn't about eternal security, it's about "no worries........your saved...........nothing you can say or do to put that salvation in jeopardy."
the Apostle Paul spent a lot of time teaching about our need to hold fast, stand strong, continue in the faith, turn from sinful things...........and on and on and on..........meaning we must act accordingly...........STRIVE to walk Christ-like each and every day..............AND IF THIS IS TRUE...........then it must needs be that should we NOT do such, we can separate ourselves from the loving Grace of God,
the Apostle Paul spent a lot of time teaching about our need to hold fast, stand strong, continue in the faith, turn from sinful things...........and on and on and on..........meaning we must act accordingly...........STRIVE to walk Christ-like each and every day..............AND IF THIS IS TRUE...........then it must needs be that should we NOT do such, we can separate ourselves from the loving Grace of God,
2[SUP]nd[/SUP] Thessalonians 2:1) Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2 .) That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 .) Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;……… 15) Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.
3:1) Finally, brethren, pray for us, that the word of the Lord may have free course, and be glorified, even as it is with you:
2 .) And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all men have not faith.
3 .) But the Lord is faithful, who shall stablish you, and keep you from evil.
4 .) And we have confidence in the Lord touching you, that ye both do and will do the things which we command you.
5 .) And the Lord direct your hearts into the love of God, and into the patient waiting for Christ.
6 .) Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us.
7 .) For yourselves know how ye ought to follow us: for we behaved not ourselves disorderly among you;
1[SUP]st[/SUP] Timothy 1:16) Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.
17 .) Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.
18 .) This charge I commit unto thee, son Timothy, according to the prophecies which went before on thee, that thou by them mightest war a good warfare;
19 .) Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck:
20 .) Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.
2:1) I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;
2 .) For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.
3 .) For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
4 .) Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
5 .) For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
6 .) Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time……………… 15) Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.
4:1) Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
2 .) Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
6:12) Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.
2[SUP]nd [/SUP]timothy 2:10) Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
11 .) It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him:
12 .) If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:
13 .) If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself…………… 19) Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
20 .) But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.
21 .) If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.
22 .) Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart.
23 .) But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.
24 .) And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,
25 .) In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
26 .) And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.
2 .) That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 .) Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;……… 15) Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.
3:1) Finally, brethren, pray for us, that the word of the Lord may have free course, and be glorified, even as it is with you:
2 .) And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all men have not faith.
3 .) But the Lord is faithful, who shall stablish you, and keep you from evil.
4 .) And we have confidence in the Lord touching you, that ye both do and will do the things which we command you.
5 .) And the Lord direct your hearts into the love of God, and into the patient waiting for Christ.
6 .) Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us.
7 .) For yourselves know how ye ought to follow us: for we behaved not ourselves disorderly among you;
1[SUP]st[/SUP] Timothy 1:16) Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.
17 .) Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.
18 .) This charge I commit unto thee, son Timothy, according to the prophecies which went before on thee, that thou by them mightest war a good warfare;
19 .) Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck:
20 .) Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.
2:1) I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;
2 .) For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.
3 .) For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
4 .) Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
5 .) For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
6 .) Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time……………… 15) Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.
4:1) Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
2 .) Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
6:12) Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.
2[SUP]nd [/SUP]timothy 2:10) Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
11 .) It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him:
12 .) If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:
13 .) If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself…………… 19) Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
20 .) But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.
21 .) If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.
22 .) Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart.
23 .) But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.
24 .) And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,
25 .) In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
26 .) And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.
Given that salvation is a work of God, it is impossible for flesh to either do or undo the work of God.
Whether someone (including ourself) is once saved or not is the Biblical concern.
Lack of full assurance is a legitimate concern that may be prolonged through an entire lifetime. Multiple books have been written on the topic of assurance.
The Bible tells us to examine ourselves whether we be in the faith or not. The Bible gives us many tests for verification.
One is: Do we love the brethren?
One is frankly: Do we keep his commandments?
Obviously, there are different types of faith. Some are saving faith and some are not.
Devils believe but theirs is not a saving faith.
In the Book of Acts, Simon Magus the magician believes and is baptized but Simon Peter tells him later that he is still in his sins and in the bonds of iniquity.
Jesus tells in the parable of the sower (Luke 8 and elsewhere) that some believe for a while and then fall away or stop.
Jesus warns in the seven letters to the seven churches in Revelation 2-3 that only those who overcome will inherit the promises.
Jesus exhorted in several places that his message was for those with ears to hear implying that many did not have such ears.
Jesus concluded the Sermon on the amount in Matthew 5-7 with warnings about many who would call Him "Lord, Lord" to whom he would later say "depart from Me".
Faith apparently can be resident in brethren but not established.
"Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God...for we have become partakers of Christ if we hold fast our confidence faithfully or steadfastly to the end" (Hebrews 3:12-14).
Cause and effect can become confused. Are we we saved because we believe or believing because we are saved? Or, are we truly believing and saved at all (or not)?
Faith and grace have also been confused. Do we have faith because of grace or grace because of faith? Or, do we truly have neither? Does faith save? Does grace save? Ephesians 2:8-9 is one source for answers.
Let us fear God is an exhortation that is always in season.
Whether someone (including ourself) is once saved or not is the Biblical concern.
Lack of full assurance is a legitimate concern that may be prolonged through an entire lifetime. Multiple books have been written on the topic of assurance.
The Bible tells us to examine ourselves whether we be in the faith or not. The Bible gives us many tests for verification.
One is: Do we love the brethren?
One is frankly: Do we keep his commandments?
Obviously, there are different types of faith. Some are saving faith and some are not.
Devils believe but theirs is not a saving faith.
In the Book of Acts, Simon Magus the magician believes and is baptized but Simon Peter tells him later that he is still in his sins and in the bonds of iniquity.
Jesus tells in the parable of the sower (Luke 8 and elsewhere) that some believe for a while and then fall away or stop.
Jesus warns in the seven letters to the seven churches in Revelation 2-3 that only those who overcome will inherit the promises.
Jesus exhorted in several places that his message was for those with ears to hear implying that many did not have such ears.
Jesus concluded the Sermon on the amount in Matthew 5-7 with warnings about many who would call Him "Lord, Lord" to whom he would later say "depart from Me".
Faith apparently can be resident in brethren but not established.
"Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God...for we have become partakers of Christ if we hold fast our confidence faithfully or steadfastly to the end" (Hebrews 3:12-14).
Cause and effect can become confused. Are we we saved because we believe or believing because we are saved? Or, are we truly believing and saved at all (or not)?
Faith and grace have also been confused. Do we have faith because of grace or grace because of faith? Or, do we truly have neither? Does faith save? Does grace save? Ephesians 2:8-9 is one source for answers.
Let us fear God is an exhortation that is always in season.
It' not my opinion that James is talking about a brother erring from the truth. One cannot err from the truth if he was never in the truth to begin with, and a Christian that errs from the truth is lost for no one can be saved outside of God's truth.
This brother errs from the truth and needs to be converted back is what the context is about. The brother that errs from the truth therefore becomes spiritually dead and needs converted back to spiritual life. Adding the idea of physical death into the text is purposely avoiding what the context is about. One dies in the context, not a physical death but a spiritual death in erring from the truth therefore needing converting back to the truth/brought back to spiritual life, not converted back from being physically dead. Can you convert a person back from physical death thereby hiding a multitude of sins?
This brother errs from the truth and needs to be converted back is what the context is about. The brother that errs from the truth therefore becomes spiritually dead and needs converted back to spiritual life. Adding the idea of physical death into the text is purposely avoiding what the context is about. One dies in the context, not a physical death but a spiritual death in erring from the truth therefore needing converting back to the truth/brought back to spiritual life, not converted back from being physically dead. Can you convert a person back from physical death thereby hiding a multitude of sins?
Phil 1:5 For your fellowship in the gospel from the first day until now
Phil 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:
Verse 5 goes with verse 6
There are two sides to salvation:
1) man's faithfulness to God
2) God's faithfulness to man
Verse 5 shows the Philippians faithfulness to God by them remaining faithfully in the gospel from the first day unto now. Their faithfulness remaining in the gospel is why Paul was confident God would remain faithfully working in them. Eternal security is not in the context. God would not continue to work in them if they became unfaithful not remaining in the gospel.
Phil 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:
Verse 5 goes with verse 6
There are two sides to salvation:
1) man's faithfulness to God
2) God's faithfulness to man
Verse 5 shows the Philippians faithfulness to God by them remaining faithfully in the gospel from the first day unto now. Their faithfulness remaining in the gospel is why Paul was confident God would remain faithfully working in them. Eternal security is not in the context. God would not continue to work in them if they became unfaithful not remaining in the gospel.
Once again we litigate an argument based on an initial false premise. One who is saved can no longer come under condemnation. He is sealed by the Holy Spirit unto the day of redemption. Eternal life is eternal as is eternal death. By Gods grace we who are sinners are made the righteousness of Christ.
I submit that when one becomes saved they are changed into a new creation in Christ. They are changed by the greatest gift ever given and given at the greatest cost. When we become saved we are then yoked together with Christ. The yoke of the devil is removed and we are free but we are yoked with the yoke of Christ which is easy and His burden for us is made light.
In the abstract we have the liberty to live a wanton life after we are saved but Gods Holy Spirit changes us to want to live holy and purely for His glory. Those who live a life of wanton sin and claim to be saved are only saved in their head and not in their hearts. You will know them because the Holy Spirit gives witness as to who are Christ's and who are not.
We can only have the peace that passes understanding when we rest in Christ as our Savior. Those who sow the seeds of strife undermining the faith of the weak need to consider what they are doing to Christ's precious children.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
I submit that when one becomes saved they are changed into a new creation in Christ. They are changed by the greatest gift ever given and given at the greatest cost. When we become saved we are then yoked together with Christ. The yoke of the devil is removed and we are free but we are yoked with the yoke of Christ which is easy and His burden for us is made light.
In the abstract we have the liberty to live a wanton life after we are saved but Gods Holy Spirit changes us to want to live holy and purely for His glory. Those who live a life of wanton sin and claim to be saved are only saved in their head and not in their hearts. You will know them because the Holy Spirit gives witness as to who are Christ's and who are not.
We can only have the peace that passes understanding when we rest in Christ as our Savior. Those who sow the seeds of strife undermining the faith of the weak need to consider what they are doing to Christ's precious children.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Heb 10:26 is simply saying Christ is the only sacrifice for sins a person has. Therefore if a Christian turns his back on Christ becoming an apostate then he has no way for his sins to ever be atoned since he left Christ, the only sacrifice for his sins.
How will he ever get atonement for his willful sins WITHOUT Christ? How can he recover from this sinful, apostate state having no sacrifice for his sins?
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. ...
Luke 3:9
And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: every tree therefore which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Luke 3:9
And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: every tree therefore which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
No God gave you the whole bible...you took one verse...and that verse pertained to people who had a long track record....If you were saved with ES why did you move from where you were being lied to...were you not saved there? If you have ES guarantee why did you leave as if you stayed there you were going to hell...is this scripture in ES bible...
Luke 3:9
And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: every tree therefore which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Luke 3:9
And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: every tree therefore which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.