BEWARE the Lawkeepers

[john832]

We cannot add to the cup that overflows. We can only partake of it.

We cannot fulfill the Law that has been satisfied with Perfection. This does not mean that we don't serve the Lord. Now we serve with faith though the Spirit. We have been freed from the Law of Sin and Death. Jesus fulfilled the Law and commanded us to love God and one another.

Romans 13:10
Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

1 John 4:20
If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for the one who does not love his brother whom he has seen, cannot love God whom he has not seen.

How can a cup that is overflowing be done away and not in effect?

 

[john832]

How about this. I don't need a Sabbath day to rest because I am resting in the Lord of the Sabbath. This is the rest I have entered into. It is not a 'do nothing' rest but an active rest where I am trusting Him in all things because I have found rest for my soul in Him. He is the one who can comfort me when I need to be comforted, He is the one who can quicken my mortal body through the Spirit that raised Him from the dead. He is our peace who has given us peace through the blood of the cross and that peace umpires and rules my heart. To take a day and rest from my labors would not be sin but it is not needed any longer because we are not under the demands of the law of the Sabbath but under the power of grace through a person who has given us His rest for all eternity (spirit, soul and body). We find our rest on in Him and in not another or in a day set apart. We enter into His rest through faith in the living God who sent His Son to take away the yoke and burden of sin from off our shoulders. We are yoked up with Him, the Lord of our Sabbath rest.

Hmmm, seems you know better than God what you need...

Heb 4:9 Therefore remains a keeping of a sabbath for the people of the God.

 

[john832]

so when is the last time you went to your priest and gave him a lamby to sacrifice for you?

I went there this morning...

Heb 4:14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.
Heb 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
Heb 4:16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

if the law is still in effect. as paul says, your indebted to keep it all. God did not give bits and peaces of a law we can pick and chose what to follow.

You either follow it all. Are you are a hypocrite for declaring it still valid.

Paul says it is in effect...

Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

But better yet, let me quote the most unpopular Voice in the New Testament...

Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Luk 16:17 And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.

So yes, I went before the High Priest this morning and the Lamb was offered for my sins yet again.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

How can a cup that is overflowing be done away and not in effect?

I hope you saw your mistake and recanted this, you seriously are not saying the cup is the law are you?

 

[RedTent]

Posters tell us it its a terrible thing and we will go to hell for demanding works, yet scripture says Mat_5:48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect. If one of us posted that in our own words we would be all be tarred and feathered.

 

[chubbena]

I went there this morning...

Heb 4:14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.
Heb 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
Heb 4:16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.



Paul says it is in effect...

Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

But better yet, let me quote the most unpopular Voice in the New Testament...

Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Luk 16:17 And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.

So yes, I went before the High Priest this morning and the Lamb was offered for my sins yet again.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to john832 again.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I went there this morning...

Heb 4:14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.
Heb 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
Heb 4:16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

well thats not according to the law. You can only do this because the law is fulfilled in Christ. Talk about a deciever

Paul says it is in effect...

Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

But better yet, let me quote the most unpopular Voice in the New Testament...

Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Luk 16:17 And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.

So yes, I went before the High Priest this morning and the Lamb was offered for my sins yet again.

Yeah lets look at what Paul says.

Gal 3:
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For as many as are of the works of [SUP][o][/SUP]the Law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not abide by all things written in the book of the law, to perform them.” [SUP]11 [/SUP]Now that no one is justified [SUP][p][/SUP]by [SUP][q][/SUP]the Law before God is evident; for, “[SUP][r][/SUP]The righteous man shall live by faith.” [SUP]12 [/SUP][SUP][s][/SUP]However, the Law is not [SUP][t][/SUP]of faith; on the contrary, “He who practices them shall live [SUP][u][/SUP]by them.” [SUP]13 [/SUP]Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us—for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a [SUP][v][/SUP]tree”— [SUP]14[/SUP]in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might [SUP][w][/SUP]come to the Gentiles, so that we would receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.


[SUP]19 [/SUP]Why the Law then? It was added [SUP][ac][/SUP]because of transgressions, having been ordained through angels by the [SUP][ad][/SUP]agency of a mediator, until the seed would come to whom the promise had been made. [SUP]20 [/SUP]Now a mediator is not [SUP][ae][/SUP]for one party only; whereas God is only one. [SUP]21 [/SUP]Is the Law then contrary to the promises of God? May it never be! For if a law had been given which was able to impart life, then righteousness [SUP][af][/SUP]would indeed have been [SUP][ag][/SUP]based on law. [SUP]22 [/SUP]But the Scripture has shut up [SUP][ah][/SUP]everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

[SUP]23 [/SUP]But before faith came, we were kept in custody under the law, being shut up to the faith which was later to be revealed.[SUP]24 [/SUP]Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith. [SUP]25 [/SUP]But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a [SUP][ai][/SUP]tutor.[SUP]26 [/SUP]For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. [SUP]27 [/SUP]For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. [SUP]28 [/SUP]There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is [SUP][aj][/SUP]neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. [SUP]29 [/SUP]And if you [SUP][ak][/SUP]belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s [SUP][al][/SUP]descendants, heirs according to promise.

Paul did not contradict himself Of course the law is still valid. Not everyone has come to faith. People still need the tutor (it is obvious you do, because you do not think that the cup which overfows actually overflows and saves us completely. you evidently think it stops flowing, and its saving power ceases)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Posters tell us it its a terrible thing and we will go to hell for demanding works, yet scripture says Mat_5:48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect. If one of us posted that in our own words we would be all be tarred and feathered.

If your working to EARN salvation or not lose it.

Scripture tells you right where you will go. Because your trusting self. NOT CHRIST.

 

[john832]

Posters tell us it its a terrible thing and we will go to hell for demanding works, yet scripture says Mat_5:48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect. If one of us posted that in our own words we would be all be tarred and feathered.

Still picking the feathers off.

 

[p_rehbein]

[h=2]Hebrew Bible[edit][/h]The Torah identifies three manifestations of tzaraath: as an affliction of human skin, (Leviticus 13:2) of garments (Leviticus 13:47) and of houses (Leviticus 14:34). The Torah also speaks of tzaraath on two other occasions, one in reference to Moses and the other in reference to his sister, Miriam. In Exodus 4:6-7, when Moses is standing before the burning bush, he doubts that Jews will believe that he is the messenger of God. God provides him with two signs to prove his mission: turning his rod into a snake and then back into a rod and turning his hand into being stricken with tzaraath and then back again. Moses revealed these wonders to the elders in Exodus 4:30. In Numbers 12:10, Miriam was stricken with tzaraath for her involvement in slandering Moses. Aaron asks Moses to cure her via extraordinary means, because he claims that he, as her own brother, cannot examine, confine or purify her. Moses prays for his sister and she is cured of the tzaraath but must remain in confinement for seven days. The Torah, however, does not indicate that she went through any purification process similar to what is normally required, as elaborated on below.
"אדם כי יהיה בעור בשרו שאת או ספחת או בהרת לנגע צרעת והובא אל אהרן הכהן או אל אחד מבניו הכהנים""When a person has on the skin of his body a swelling, a rash, or a discoloration, and it develops into a scaly affection of the skin of his body, it shall be reported to [or he shall be brought before] Aaron the priest or to one of his sons, the priests. (JPS Tanakh, Leviticus)[SUP][5][/SUP]According to some (such as ArtScroll/Mesorah) the three subdivisions of skin tzaraath are best left transliterated, rather than translated, because there are no equivalent English terms and any attempt to translate them greatly diminishes the distinctiveness and focus of the Hebrew term. Though this is not the view of the Jewish Publication Society nor of the Bible Society. Additionally, a diagnosis of tzaraath is not to be performed by anyone but a kohen (Jewish priest).
Some say the manifestation of tzaraath is termed a negah (נגע) "affliction", nega'im (plural: נגעים) and there are three varieties of nega'im that relate to human flesh:

1. boils and burns (Leviticus 13:18-28)
2. bald patches or lesions of the scalp or beard, the negah of which is called a נתק (netek)(Leviticus 13:29-44)

 

[RedTent]

I think this has been a wonderful post. To me, the people who are against God giving law to us today have proven they are not thinking through the Lord, or even with secular logic.

They say if you have law you can't have grace, yet scripture tells of both as good to have.

They say that because Christ made the law complete, it is finished and over. Even in the secular world completing something doesn't mean it has no more use, if that was so no one would have a home for it is complete. In the spiritual world, that would be even more so, God created how our world here works, too.

One said that because we renew our minds with grace the law has no effect!!

One reasoned that he is resting in the Lord all the time, so he isn't about to rest in the Lord on a Sabbath he chooses in the way scripture suggests would be good for us.

Another reasoning is that the definition of "yoke and burden" bible tells of is "all the law".

Some insist that to tell of law is to say that ANY disobedience means death for the disobedient one and if we judge them (who is judging?) by saying law is good they will judge us severely.

A good portion of the people against the law keepers is judgments of those who keep the law. They use that name as a dirty name in their eyes, law keepers don't even have a name for those against. I haven't found personal judgments and vile accusations in their posts for these things are from the demons fighting God. This is the way demons work, it is not from God. Their arguments for law is done using scripture as a base for how they reason, not condemnation of people.

I am just an elderly woman who hasn't even a college degree, but these things just don't add up to scripture to me, and that God wants us to do our best to follow and obey Him does add up.

 

[p_rehbein]

The dough offering (Hebrew mitzvat terumat hallah Hebrew: מצוות תרומת חלה‎) is a positive commandment requiring the owner of a bread dough to give a part of the kneaded dough to a priest. This commandment is one of the twenty-four kohanic gifts.[SUP][1][/SUP]
The common modern practice in Orthodox Judaism is to burn the portion to be given the Kohen, although giving the hallah to a Kohen for consumption is permitted outside of Israel (permitted with restrictions, see article below for detail).

 

[p_rehbein]

The Tabernacle (Hebrew: מִשְׁכַּן‎, mishkan, "residence" or "dwelling place"), according to the Hebrew Bible, was the portable dwelling place for the divine presence from the time of the Exodus from Egypt through the conquering of the land of Canaan. Built to specifications revealed by God (Yahweh) to Moses at Mount Sinai, it accompanied the Israelites on their wanderings in the wilderness and their conquest of the Promised Land. The First Temple in Jerusalem superseded it as the dwelling-place of God. There is no mention of the Tabernacle in the Tanakh after the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple by the Babylonians in 587 BCE.
The fullest description of the Tabernacle describes an inner shrine (named Holy of Holies) housing the Ark of the Covenant and an outer chamber (Holy Place) with a golden lampstand, table for showbread, and altar of incense.[SUP][1][/SUP] This description is generally identified as part of the Priestly source (P),[SUP][1][/SUP] written in the 6th or 5th century BCE. Many scholars contend that it is of a far later date than Moses, and that the description reflects the structure of the Temple of Solomon, while some hold that the description derives from memories of a real pre-monarchic shrine, perhaps the sanctuary at Shiloh.[SUP][1][/SUP] Traditional scholars contend that it describes an actual tabernacle used in the time of Moses and thereafter.[SUP][2][/SUP] According to historical criticism an earlier, pre-exilic source (E) describes the Tabernacle as a simple tent-sanctuary.[SUP][/SUP]

 

[BradC]

Why argue about Sabbath? Why can't we be at peace that this rest provides? Anyone who is truly a believer in Christ observes it (at least) Spiritually. There isn't anything wrong with observing the 7th day as the Sabbath, and there isn't anything wrong with resting in the good graces, and love of God through Christ. Give it a rest!!!

Are you telling us that we need to take a Sabbatical from all of this? lol

 

[Zinzerio]

The law is Holy holy holy holy.

Let me try this again

The
law
is
holy
the
law
is
holy
righteous
and
good
righteous
and
good
righteous
and
good. so then the law is Good Romans 7:12 So then, the Law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good.

It was Jesus who said he was not under any law,,, not you not i but Jesus said this.
Jesus said this, not you not i, "Jesus". Jesus could say this as he is above the law not you not i but Jesus.
Jesus is above the law and Jesus is God. and we are still under Gods law.
1 Corinthians 9:21 though not being without the law of God but under the law of Christ.

So then what are thees laws of Jesus Christ what is holy about the law, what is righteous and good ?

seek an you shall find some starters for yas[video=youtube;WcIXCok9HPg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WcIXCok9HPg#t=90[/video]

 

[Laodicea]

I have answered your question. So either you have not read my post properly or you are trying to avoid answering my questions.
I'll post the answer again for you, below. I'll even highlight in purple color the part that addresses your question.

The law is much more than just the 10 commandments.
For those under the law righteousness is determined by perfect obedience to it.
The law has the death penalty for even just one offence (James 2:10).

But Christ's commandments to us has 2 commandments.
1John 3:23
1: Believe on Jesus (thus our faith is counted for righteousness, Rom 4:5)
2: Love one another.

Are these 2 laws different?
2Cor 3:7-11
But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?

For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.

Heb 8:7
For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

Both these covenants cover issues such as stealing.
The old covenant demanded the death penalty for even just one offence. Righteousness was determined only if one kept the law perfectly.

But under the new covenant faith is counted for righteousness.
And under the new covenant Christians are not preaching condemnation under the old law. Instead we show the same love/grace to others as God showed to us. We forgive 7x70. And whilst a Christian's behavior improves, as we love one another (hence we do not steal, etc), in this imperfect physical world we do sometimes fail (or are you claiming to be perfect, Laodecia?). We do not profit by doing wrong as God disciplines us.

Note also how the Sabbath and dietary laws are not listed in Christ's commandments (1John 3:23).

So back to my questions.
I'm curious how you see the many Christians here who never keep the Saturday Sabbath?

Do you see Christians who do not have the works of the law that your doctrine demands, as "cripples"? Or do you see them as lost?

And as you use killing as an example, do you think God made a mistake in disciplining King David for his adultery and murder?
Being that you preach the law, what do you think God should have done to King David for his adultery/murder?

It is good to see you agree that he would keep the commandment "Thou shalt not kill". Now your question.

I'm curious how you see the many Christians here who never keep the Saturday Sabbath?

I do not see anyone here over the internet

 

[haz]

It is good to see you agree that he would keep the commandment "Thou shalt not kill".

I see you focus on just one part of my answer whilst ignoring the rest.
I'm ok with my points being taken out of context, although it does reflect poorly on your reply to do that.

Where legalists go very wrong though, is their consistent misuse of scripture, taken out of context, to promote their desire to be under the law. You do this to your own detriment, and can mislead others with such error.

Now your question.
I do not see anyone here over the internet

Again you avoid answering my question.
Here they are again, slightly reworded so that you cannot use that same excuse.

I'm curious what the doctrine you follow says about the many Christians here who never keep the Saturday Sabbath?

Does the doctrine you follow say that Christians who do not have the works of the law, are like"cripples" (a term used by SDA gotime)? Or does the doctrine you follow suggest they're lost?

And as you use killing as an example, do you think God made a mistake in disciplining King David for his adultery and murder?
Being that you preach the law, what do you think God should have done to King David for his adultery/murder?

 

[haz]

Posters tell us it its a terrible thing and we will go to hell for demanding works, yet scripture says Mat_5:48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect. If one of us posted that in our own words we would be all be tarred and feathered.

Actually it's God who tells us in His word that we must not preach works of the law.

As for being "perfect", even the legalists here fail that.

So how does one be "perfect"?
Heb 10:14
For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

As long as we continue to believe on Jesus then we remain perfected, holy (Rom 11:16), righteous (Rom 4:5) and complete (Col 2:10).

But anyone who turns back to works of the law will fall from that perfection.

I haven't found personal judgments and vile accusations in their posts for these things are from the demons fighting God. This is the way demons work, it is not from God. Their arguments for law is done using scripture as a base for how they reason, not condemnation of people.

Clearly you fail to see the judgement/condemnation preached by the legalists here because you agree with their doctrine.
One's bias often does blind one to the obvious.

 

[chubbena]

Here I see those who don't keep the law calling those who try to keep the law names, not the other way round.
Here I see those who don't keep the law judging those who try to keep the law how imperfect they are, not the other way round.
Does one think God made a mistake in disciplining the whole nation of Israel for not remembering the Sabbath?

 

[haz]

Why argue about Sabbath? Why can't we be at peace that this rest provides? Anyone who is truly a believer in Christ observes it (at least) Spiritually. There isn't anything wrong with observing the 7th day as the Sabbath, and there isn't anything wrong with resting in the good graces, and love of God through Christ. Give it a rest!!!

Yes, Christians do enter into God's rest. The spiritual Sabbath.

As for the physical Sabbath that legalists here always push for, it's their preaching of condemnation under the law that we, under grace, oppose.

Col 2:16
So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths,