Happy Sabbath Everyone!

[KohenMatt]

Do you live in the Old Testament or the New Testament? You keep reverting BACK to the Old....the OLD has passed away. The purpose of the Law has been fulfilled at the cross. I quote Paul because we are living in the dispensation of GRACE, not Law. Maybe you should do a study on the book of Hebrews.

Hebrews 7:18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.
Hebrews 7:19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.

I live in both.

If we're going to talk about the Law and a Christian's relationship to it, it only makes sense that we should look at what the Law actually says. Yes, we should also see it and understand it in light of Jesus' sacrifice and grace.

But it is incredibly inconsistent to claim you know what the Law is saying yet refuse to post even 1 Scripture from it.

All I'm asking for is you to show what God's purpose was in giving the Law.
When He gave it to Moses, what did He say?
Did He provide any blessings for doing it?
Curses for not doing it?
How long was it to be done for?
Was the focus on the laws, or God Himself?

 

[KohenMatt]

We have to quote the NT for we are under the NT and not the old. Those who believe and have been placed in Christ are NT believers under grace and not the law (Rom 6:14,15). So our reference to the law will be according to the NT covenant that begins with the death, burial, resurrection and ascension of Christ. What came before according to the law has been made inoperative and we have been discharged from it. The law has no dominion over a NT believer unless that NT believer puts himself under it, then he must be subject to the whole law and in the keeping of it being judged by the law as a transgressor if he fails any part of it.

1 Tim 1:8-11
8 Now we recognize and know that the Law is good if anyone uses it lawfully [for the purpose for which it was designed],
9 Knowing and understanding this: that the Law is not enacted for the righteous (the upright and just, who are in right standing with God), but for the lawless and unruly, for the ungodly and sinful, for the irreverent and profane, for those who strike and beat and [even] murder fathers and strike and beat and [even] murder mothers, for manslayers,
10 [For] impure and immoral persons, those who abuse themselves with men, kidnapers, liars, perjurers—and whatever else is opposed to wholesome teaching and sound doctrine
11 As laid down by the glorious Gospel of the blessed God, with which I have been entrusted.

Now we have grace that teaches us what the law could not...

Titus 2:11,12
11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

So now that we are "under grace", you can't quote the OT at all?
In your studies of grace vs. law, you can't look at what the law originally said?

C'mon Brad, show us what God said to Israel when He gave them the Law. Show us why He said He gave it to them. Show us if God gave Israel any blessings when they kept it.

 

[BradC]

So now that we are "under grace", you can't quote the OT at all?
In your studies of grace vs. law, you can't look at what the law originally said?

C'mon Brad, show us what God said to Israel when He gave them the Law. Show us why He said He gave it to them. Show us if God gave Israel any blessings when they kept it.

Obviously Israel had great trouble and problems with lusting all the way back to the time of being in the wilderness. Joshua and Caleb and their generation entered into the promised land. Moses did not enter but saw it from afar. Do you believe that they entered into the promised land because they kept the law or did they enter because they kept the promise? Why did the 10 spies come back with an evil report and were destroyed, because they did not keep the law or because they did not keep or believe the promise? Moses did not enter in because he got angry and disobeyed God when he smote the rock twice but that had nothing to do with not keeping the law.

Have you as well as others come to the conclusion that many of them died in the wilderness because God was not pleased with them for not keeping the law? The ones who had been bitten by snakes were they bitten because they did not keep the law? If that is true then why did God tell Moses to make a brazen fiery serpent and lift it up on a pole so that those who looked upon it could live (Num 21)? Where do you find that (including murmuring) prescribed in the law? Read the account in (1 Cor 10) and the corresponding stories in (Numbers) and show us how the law was involved in God's retribution upon those in the wilderness who lusted, who spoke against Moses ans Aaron and who gave evil reports.

 

[Linda70]

I live in both.

According to Scripture, you are either living by keeping the Law (Old Testament) or living by the "law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus" (Romans 8:2)

Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Romans 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Romans 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Romans 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Galatians 3:1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
Galatians 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Galatians 3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

If we're going to talk about the Law and a Christian's relationship to it, it only makes sense that we should look at what the Law actually says. Yes, we should also see it and understand it in light of Jesus' sacrifice and grace.

Romans 7 is a good place to start. If anybody knew what the Law actually said would be the Apostle Paul. As BradC pointed out, the OT Law has been made inoperative by the death, burial, resurrection and ascension of Jesus Christ.

But it is incredibly inconsistent to claim you know what the Law is saying yet refuse to post even 1 Scripture from it.

Are you saying that the Apostle Paul is also inconsistent?

All I'm asking for is you to show what God's purpose was in giving the Law.
When He gave it to Moses, what did He say?
Did He provide any blessings for doing it?
Curses for not doing it?
How long was it to be done for?
Was the focus on the laws, or God Himself?

Why are you so "hung up" on what God said to Moses? What God said to Moses has nothing to do with the New Testament believer. God gave the Law to the children of Israel...not to the Church or the Gentile nations.

Exodus 19:3 And Moses went up unto God, and the LORD called unto him out of the mountain, saying, Thus shalt thou say to the house of Jacob, and tell the children of Israel;
Exodus 19:4 Ye have seen what I did unto the Egyptians, and how I bare you on eagles' wings, and brought you unto myself.
Exodus 19:5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:
Exodus 19:6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

Galatians 3:19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
Galatians 3:20 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.
Galatians 3:21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
Galatians 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
Galatians 3:23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
Galatians 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
Galatians 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

 

[KohenMatt]

Obviously Israel had great trouble and problems with lusting all the way back to the time of being in the wilderness. Joshua and Caleb and their generation entered into the promised land. Moses did not enter but saw it from afar. Do you believe that they entered into the promised land because they kept the law or did they enter because they kept the promise? Why did the 10 spies come back with an evil report and were destroyed, because they did not keep the law or because they did not keep or believe the promise? Moses did not enter in because he got angry and disobeyed God when he smote the rock twice but that had nothing to do with not keeping the law.

What "promise" are you talking about that Israel "kept"?
The 1st time, they didn't enter into the land because they didn't trust God.
The 2nd time they did enter because they did trust Him.

Have you as well as others come to the conclusion that many of them died in the wilderness because God was not pleased with them for not keeping the law? The ones who had been bitten by snakes were they bitten because they did not keep the law? If that is true then why did God tell Moses to make a brazen fiery serpent and lift it up on a pole so that those who looked upon it could live (Num 21)? Where do you find that (including murmuring) prescribed in the law? Read the account in (1 Cor 10) and the corresponding stories in (Numbers) and show us how the law was involved in God's retribution upon those in the wilderness who lusted, who spoke against Moses ans Aaron and who gave evil reports.

Brad, I'm not saying that they were punished only for breaking the Law. You're exactly right; their murmuring, complaining, doubt and fear caused them to be punished several times, just like you mentioned. Were they punished for breaking the law? Yes. Were they also punished for other things (like you mentioned)? Yes.

 

[Scuba]

According to Scripture, you are either living by keeping the Law (Old Testament) or living by the "law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus"

Another name for the law of the Spirit of life is, Orthopraxy.

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/95994-orthodoxy-vs-orthopraxy.html#post1619381

 

[KohenMatt]

According to Scripture, you are either living by keeping the Law (Old Testament) or living by the "law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus" (Romans 8:2)

Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Romans 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Romans 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Romans 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Galatians 3:1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
Galatians 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Galatians 3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

I live by the Holy Spirit. And God's Spirit often points to the instructions He gave in the Old Testament as practical instructions on how to live. Salvation isn't found in that Law though. It is only found in the one who gave that law.

Romans 7 is a good place to start. If anybody knew what the Law actually said would be the Apostle Paul. As BradC pointed out, the OT Law has been made inoperative by the death, burial, resurrection and ascension of Jesus Christ.
Are you saying that the Apostle Paul is also inconsistent?
Why are you so "hung up" on what God said to Moses? What God said to Moses has nothing to do with the New Testament believer. God gave the Law to the children of Israel...not to the Church or the Gentile nations.

I'm "hung up" on what God said to Moses because we're talking about what the Law actually says and does.
And I would say God gave the law to the children of Israel, aka God's people. The same Israel that gentiles were grafted into (Romans 11).

Exodus 19:3 And Moses went up unto God, and the LORD called unto him out of the mountain, saying, Thus shalt thou say to the house of Jacob, and tell the children of Israel;
Exodus 19:4 Ye have seen what I did unto the Egyptians, and how I bare you on eagles' wings, and brought you unto myself.
Exodus 19:5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:
Exodus 19:6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

Galatians 3:19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
Galatians 3:20 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.
Galatians 3:21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
Galatians 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
Galatians 3:23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
Galatians 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
Galatians 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

FINALLY! Thank you for finally getting into the OT a little bit. So what do those verses in Exodus 19 mean to you? What was God trying to accomplish? And how do those promises by God conflict with anything Jesus or the disciples did or said?

And regarding the passage from Galatians 4, they key to understanding what Paul is getting at is vs 21 and 24. Paul is talking about the purpose of the law and its insufficiency to offer justification (salvation). He starts off vs 21 by saying that the law doesn't contradict the promises of God. The promises that Paul is speaking of is that salvation (vs. 24). Since the Law was never intended to bring that salvation, it isn't in conflict with gracious salvation. Yes, the law shows us of our need for atonement which is in our Messiah, and thankfully, we have Him now. But now that we have been saved, what do we do with our lives? How do we live? We live as a holy nation and a kingdom of priests (Exo 19:6, 1 Pet 2:9). And the Law contains a lot of the instructions on how to live according to that calling.

 

[2Thewaters]

I live by the Holy Spirit. And God's Spirit often points to the instructions He gave in the Old Testament as practical instructions on how to live. Salvation isn't found in that Law though. It is only found in the one who gave that law. .

Salvation is found in the blood of Jesus who cleanses us from al past sin and gives us grace the holy spirit oower to keep on not sinning

it is all through Jesus
he works in us to keep the law
if you are not keeping the law you are not following the holy spirit instruction in the word of God

the holy spirit always keeps the law.
the holy pirit always walks according to the comandments

I

I'm "hung up" on what God said to Moses because we're talking about what the Law actually says and does.
And I would say God gave the law to the children of Israel, aka God's people. The same Israel that gentiles were grafted into (Romans 11).

.

God told us if you love me kerp my commandments
too bad you hung up on him

repent and foloow Jesus
he lways told people to keep the law
your understanding of salvation is confused

obedience to the word of God has always been taught by the apostles after Jesus went to heaven

the new covenant is the law written and kept in our ours.

we love God and his word

 

[2Thewaters]

Jesus is come in the flesh to empower us to keep his law without which no man will see God

anyone who denies that is anti Bible

in revelation there will be 144,000 kepeping the law PERFECTLY by the blood of Jesus empowering them

no one can be saved without the blood of Jesus forgiving our sins
and the blood of Jesus power the holy spirit keeping our sins

preaching that you can go off and drink beer
watch movies
break sabbath and still believe you are saved is a self deception self righteousness that goes against the Bible

 

[2Thewaters]

Jesus said to
GO AND SIN NO MORE
sin is the transgression of the law
i cannot keep the law
Jesus ALWAYS keeps the law always has and always will

so when Jesus comes into your heart
and does the works

they will be law keeping works

or it is a false JEsus in your heart.

 

[2Thewaters]

taking 4 or five twisted scriptures and then using them to disqualify hundreds of Bible verses telling us to eep the law by faith is false gospel

My bible does not teach once saved always saved
once saved always saved is not in the Bible, no where

in the Bible and your Bible are lots of stores that teacdh the disobedient will die and the obedient will be saved BY THE BLOOD OF JESUS
for only the blood of JEsus forgives us from our past sins

thats you you got so mixed up
you dont believe the whole Bible

Jesus says
EVERY WORD OF GOD is necessary for salvation

those who throw out parts of the Bible are decievers.

 

[2Thewaters]

Jesus told us
YE DO ERR, not knowing the scriptures.

only the scriptures he talked aobut were all old testament
PAul taugh OLD TESTAMENT srcriptures in the new covenant dispensation
peter did too

I know it is desirable to drink beer and fornicate with all the women in the church and tell dirty jokes but be assures
the ones doing so are under the delusive spirit
they have a false daoctrine invented by those who like the wide road

the true doctrine is strive to enter in and remove ALL SIN by the blood of JEsus

pray each morning
FATHER FORGIVE AND REMOVE MY SIN i messed up
father FORGIVE BY THE BLOOD OF JESUS MY SIN i didand REMOVE THAT SIN from my life i repent
I wont do it again


do you pray these prayers day and night?

that is the true gospel
removing repenting and removing that sin from your life
that means stop doing it by the blood of JEsus

stop sinning by the blood of JEsus

being a pastor and a head elder discussing their sexual conquests of the women in their church and claming to be saved are decieved, the BIBLE in the new testament says they will not enter into heavenunless the repent
stop doing it

 

[2Thewaters]

JEsus blood cleanses and forgives all those who sin who are sorry and repentant
no non repentant sinner will enter heaven.

repentance means I messed up
by the blood of Jesus forgive me
by the blood of JEsus take ths sin away
and by the blood of Jesus give me power to never do it again

that is true gospel

if you are not praying that way you have another gospel.


1 Cor 6:7 Now therefore there is utterly a fault among you, because ye go to law one with another. Why do ye not rather take wrong?
why do ye not rather suffer yourselves to be defrauded?

CHANGE YOUR BEHAVIOR
REPENT by the power of Jesus blood in you to remove those desires
pray for it
GET IT?


1 Cor 6:8 Nay, ye do wrong, and defraud, and that your brethren.

CHANGE YOUR BEHAVIOR
REPENT by the power of Jesus blood in you to remove those desires
pray for it
GET IT?



1 Cor 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God?

the ones that keep on sinning will not inherit the kingdom


Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
1 Cor 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.


claiming you are saved and porking wome still makes you a fornicator.
you can deny it
but the law doesnt deny it

you havent STOPPED IT
you havent REPENTED
your sins are not removed
cause your still doing them
obviously

your wins must be removed by the blood of Jesus



1 Cor 6:11 And such were some of you:
but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified,

stopped doing that stuff in the future


but ye are justified

forgiven for past sins

in the name of the Lord Jesus,
and by the Spirit of our God.


1 Cor 6:12 All things are lawful unto me,

but all things are not expedient:

all things are lawful for me,

but I will not be brought under the power of any.

that means I wont DO THOSE SINS

you have to stop DOING THE SINS
repent
YOU HAVE TO STOP DOING THE SINS

by the blood of JEsus and prayer

that is repentance
CHANGING your life

this is noe taught anymore in the false new gospel

 

[2Thewaters]

every sin must be confessed
Lordm I did it
i sinned today
i ams o sorry i dont want to ever do that again

do you pray like that?

then you are not prayin

are you doing it on your knees?

no?
then you are not praying

not praying like that is a false religion.

that is how Jesus prayed

Lord give my disciples the ppower to overcome sin

give me the power to remain sinfree
give me the power to overcome satans temptaion.



then every sin must be rejected and repented of

By JEsus blood I wont do that again

and pray for it

if you never pray for it you will never get the power to stop sinning


this is the deception of the false new gospel

they say you dont have the power to overcome any sin

but they dont tell you that the divine power of GOD IN YOUR HEART DOES HAVE THE POWER TO OVERCOME EVERY SINSO THAT YOU WILL NEVER DO IT AGAIN

they dont tell you that'that is why it is incomplete gospel
false gospel

for until you plead lke jacob to remove the desire to sin from you

you will never overcome


only overcomers of ALL SINS by the blood of Jesus are going to be part of the 144,000 that make it through the plagues.

and it is true

 

[2Thewaters]

the crazy gospel is obvious when you think about it


son comes to you

"Dad, I smoked crack!"

and the new gospel says
thats all right son, no one can not smoke crakc, but you confesed you were a christian when you were 8 so,
after you die from crakck be assured your going to be in heaven



crazy religion I tell you


and if you TRY to stop smoing crack son
if you RESIST and say no to csmoking crac, son
then you are doing works and you will go to hell


keep your crazy religion I will stick with the Bible

the Bible says if you smoke crack you sinned

sinners will perish
read the law
and you say
Jesus I sinned again
forgive me save me and TAKE THE DEESIRE FOR SMOKING CRACK AWAY FROM ME HELP ME TO RESIST

that is repentance
and JEsus forgives
and as nlong as you RESIST in the blood of JEsus praying

you will never again smoke crack
never

that is forgiveness and cleansing of sin

that is what we must do for crack
alcohol
beer
lying
cheating
stealing
killing and sabbath breaking

that is a sin
sin must go by the blood of JEsus

it is the narrow road.

any other gospel let them be accursed

this is what Paul taught
this is what Peter taught and this is what John taught

 

[2Thewaters]

when you tell someone you cannot stop smoing crak so its ok you are saved anyway

that is not the bible
the Bible says the person who teaches that is lost also
because they are a deciever

the Bible says
GO AND SIN NO MORE

and when you believe in the blood of JEsus
you are giving the power to never sin that sin again as long as you pray in the blood of JEsus

you say they cant stop smoing crack
well you are WRONG
you must be smocin crack!

I gave up crack and never touched it again

and the devil says
see how self righteous he is!

cause the devil leads you when you say that he knows you and he lives in you when you accuse people

I will never smoke crack again
because JESU MY RIGHTEOUSNESS WROTE HIS LAW IN MY HEART

that is the new covenant

if you dont have it
you need to be born again in the new covenent

the love of the law in our hearts and following it by the blood of JESUS
I am not self righteous
JESUS IS MY RIGHTEOUSNESS!
HE IS POERFUL
HE GIVES ME POWER TO RESIST CRACK EVERY TIME

every day satan tempts me with it
and everyday day I pray
and everyday JEsus says dont do it it is sin
if you smoke it you reject me and will be lost
and I say no problem
I wont smoke it because I love you

dont you dare tell me we cant stop sinning by the blood of JEsus you fales religion spewers

the law of the Lord is righteous CONVERTING THE SOUL

you been converted yet?

YOU stopped porking women in your church behind their husbands back
?

YOU stopped telling dirty jokes?

YOU stopped drinking beer and playing violent video games?
no?
well then you ARE NOT SAVE FROM YOUR SINS CAUSE YOU KEEP DOING THEM!
obbviously you are not saved from doing your sins

I am here to tell you JEsus will accept you in the beloved by his blook
to save you from that deceptive religion that says being good will take you to hell

and start trusting in JEsus
and doing his word
and STOP SINNING RIGHT NOW ANY SIN ANY SIN ANY SIN

crack incuded

I am here to tell yo My JESUS and his blood stops my crack dead in its tracks every single struggling day in prayer
and anyone who says it is my righteousness my self righteousness is an idiot
for I cant resist crack
JEsus can
and does
and if you dont learn to do it
you will be the one burning up
after being decieved like th majority who keep right on sinning



ewith JEsus there is no more sin
the sin with prayer is resisted

have you ever resisted anything unto blood?

have you?
I have

I restied crakc in the power Jesus blood until blood ran from my eyes
that is HIS power HIS righteousness i have noe
and if you dont stop sinning every sin in your nlife before the 7th plague is poured out you will perish in your false twisted religion of KEEP RIGHT ON SINNING YOU ARE GOING TO HEAVE

no
you are not
unless you overcome you ARE NOT GOING

GOD SAYS SO
MY BIBLE SAYS SO
and you cannot show me totherwise it doesnt exist
Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Mat 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
Mat 7:25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
Mat 7:26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
Mat 7:27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

 

[BradC]

What "promise" are you talking about that Israel "kept"?
The 1st time, they didn't enter into the land because they didn't trust God.
The 2nd time they did enter because they did trust Him.



Brad, I'm not saying that they were punished only for breaking the Law. You're exactly right; their murmuring, complaining, doubt and fear caused them to be punished several times, just like you mentioned. Were they punished for breaking the law? Yes. Were they also punished for other things (like you mentioned)? Yes.

When you speak of trust you are referring not to the law but to the promises of God and in Israel's case that promise was the land flowing with milk and honey. When given the law at Sinai that was not an issue of trust or believing but one of revealing sin and the holiness of God when it was broken or violated. When we are called to be holy as our Father in heaven is holy that has nothing to do with keeping the law. It has to do with being merciful and gracious as our Father in heaven is merciful and gracious. The law is holy but keeping the law does not make us holy, having the Holy Spirit dwelling within and being led of the Spirit through mercy and grace is being holy and set apart unto the will of God bearing fruit unto God.

 

[Linda70]

I live by the Holy Spirit. And God's Spirit often points to the instructions He gave in the Old Testament as practical instructions on how to live. Salvation isn't found in that Law though. It is only found in the one who gave that law.

God's Spirit points to CHRIST...not to the OT law. The NT epistles contain the practical instructions on Christian living. We agree that salvation isn't found in the Law....but you are saying that we need to go back to the OT Law for the practical instructions on how to live? Whatever happened to the outworking of God's grace through the indwelling Holy Spirit? Are you being sanctified by the OT Law?

I'm "hung up" on what God said to Moses because we're talking about what the Law actually says and does.
And I would say God gave the law to the children of Israel, aka God's people. The same Israel that gentiles were grafted into (Romans 11).

Believing gentiles are not grafted into Israel. The natural branches refer to Israel. The wild branches refer to the Gentiles. The cultivated olive tree refers to the place of God’s blessing. Some of the natural branches (unbelieving Jews) were "broken off," because of unbelief (Romans 11:20). Wild branches were "grafted in among them" because of faith in Christ and are therefore in the place of blessing. Believing Gentiles are able to enjoy God’s salvation and God's righteousness and God's Spirit. The Church is not "spiritual" Israel.

FINALLY! Thank you for finally getting into the OT a little bit. So what do those verses in Exodus 19 mean to you? What was God trying to accomplish? And how do those promises by God conflict with anything Jesus or the disciples did or said?

The verses in Exodus 19 tell me of God's promises to the CHILDREN OF ISRAEL...they are not applicable to the NT Church. They also teach us that God is not finished with the NATION OF ISRAEL! The NT Church is distinct from the nation of Israel. Where is God's promise for the Church that it would be "a peculiar treasure unto me above all people:"? Where is the Church's "land"?

And regarding the passage from Galatians 4, they key to understanding what Paul is getting at is vs 21 and 24. Paul is talking about the purpose of the law and its insufficiency to offer justification (salvation). He starts off vs 21 by saying that the law doesn't contradict the promises of God. The promises that Paul is speaking of is that salvation (vs. 24). Since the Law was never intended to bring that salvation, it isn't in conflict with gracious salvation. Yes, the law shows us of our need for atonement which is in our Messiah, and thankfully, we have Him now. But now that we have been saved, what do we do with our lives? How do we live? We live as a holy nation and a kingdom of priests (Exo 19:6, 1 Pet 2:9). And the Law contains a lot of the instructions on how to live according to that calling.

The "instructions" for practical Christian living are found in the NT epistles, not in the OT Law...even though the OT Law contains "a lot" of those instructions.

Colossians 2:6 As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:
Colossians 2:7 Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.
Colossians 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
Colossians 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
Colossians 2:10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
Colossians 2:11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
Colossians 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
Colossians 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
Colossians 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
Colossians 2:15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
Colossians 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Colossians 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

 

[BradC]

when you tell someone you cannot stop smoing crak so its ok you are saved anyway

that is not the bible
the Bible says the person who teaches that is lost also
because they are a deciever

the Bible says
GO AND SIN NO MORE

and when you believe in the blood of JEsus
you are giving the power to never sin that sin again as long as you pray in the blood of JEsus

you say they cant stop smoing crack
well you are WRONG
you must be smocin crack!

I gave up crack and never touched it again

and the devil says
see how self righteous he is!

cause the devil leads you when you say that he knows you and he lives in you when you accuse people

I will never smoke crack again
because JESU MY RIGHTEOUSNESS WROTE HIS LAW IN MY HEART

that is the new covenant

if you dont have it
you need to be born again in the new covenent

the love of the law in our hearts and following it by the blood of JESUS
I am not self righteous
JESUS IS MY RIGHTEOUSNESS!
HE IS POERFUL
HE GIVES ME POWER TO RESIST CRACK EVERY TIME

every day satan tempts me with it
and everyday day I pray
and everyday JEsus says dont do it it is sin
if you smoke it you reject me and will be lost
and I say no problem
I wont smoke it because I love you

dont you dare tell me we cant stop sinning by the blood of JEsus you fales religion spewers

the law of the Lord is righteous CONVERTING THE SOUL

you been converted yet?

YOU stopped porking women in your church behind their husbands back
?

YOU stopped telling dirty jokes?

YOU stopped drinking beer and playing violent video games?
no?
well then you ARE NOT SAVE FROM YOUR SINS CAUSE YOU KEEP DOING THEM!
obbviously you are not saved from doing your sins

I am here to tell you JEsus will accept you in the beloved by his blook
to save you from that deceptive religion that says being good will take you to hell

and start trusting in JEsus
and doing his word
and STOP SINNING RIGHT NOW ANY SIN ANY SIN ANY SIN

crack incuded

I am here to tell yo My JESUS and his blood stops my crack dead in its tracks every single struggling day in prayer
and anyone who says it is my righteousness my self righteousness is an idiot
for I cant resist crack
JEsus can
and does
and if you dont learn to do it
you will be the one burning up
after being decieved like th majority who keep right on sinning



ewith JEsus there is no more sin
the sin with prayer is resisted

have you ever resisted anything unto blood?

have you?
I have

I restied crakc in the power Jesus blood until blood ran from my eyes
that is HIS power HIS righteousness i have noe
and if you dont stop sinning every sin in your nlife before the 7th plague is poured out you will perish in your false twisted religion of KEEP RIGHT ON SINNING YOU ARE GOING TO HEAVE

no
you are not
unless you overcome you ARE NOT GOING

GOD SAYS SO
MY BIBLE SAYS SO
and you cannot show me totherwise it doesnt exist
Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Mat 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
Mat 7:25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
Mat 7:26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
Mat 7:27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

You do not understand grace. When Jesus told the woman caught in the act of adultery in (John 8) to go and sin no more he first removed all her accusers according to the law and then gave her grace by not condemning her. She left in the power of that grace and by that grace she could go and sin no more. So get off this kick that we are condoning sin according to the law, for we are not. Grace is never given so that a person can continue in sin but when sin abounds grace does much more abound. That is something that must be very strange for you to hear.

 

[Flamingspirit]

If you look back at the OP of this thread, and all of the other similar ones I've created over the last year, you will see that the point isn't to criticize those who go to church on Sunday. I've never said that or implied that, and I challenge you to show me where I have.

The point of this thread is to bless my brothers and sister who keep the Sabbath.

Maybe on the surface, but at the heart? There is no blessing you get on Saturday that those who go on Sundays do not receive.

And you seek rest and the Sabbath, but refuse to believe that it has nothing to do with a created day.