When did God first reveal himself to humans?

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posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,689
13,141
113
Did the altar have "Joshua's Altar" written on it? Again, finding an altar doesn't prove
the Exodus happened. If you'll notice above, I gave 9 pieces of evidence against
the Exodus. All of which, you ignored.

*built in exactly the manner described in the book of Joshua (and not at all like any other altar any people other than the Jews built)
*built in exactly the place described in the book of Joshua (far from any Phoenician or other settlement of the time period, but within sight of Jericho, exactly as described in the book)
*built at exactly the time specified in the book of Joshua (when your 9 "proofs" - which are all lack of evidence, and lack of evidence cannot prove non-existence - when your other sources say from their armchairs that the Hebrews were not in the land at all)

i don't know how much more of a "name tag" you could ask for.
in the center of the altar are 12 stones. one for each tribe.

i posted a recent video on archaeology & the bible, newer than any of your 'sources,' and you're still ignoring it.
 
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C

Celsus

Guest
An altar existing doesn't prove anything.
How about the fact that the conquest was
invented and that there is not a shred of
physical evidence on the route that 2,000,000
people supposedly took? And this 2 million
people at a time when the Egyptian population
was 3.5 million? Yeah right. Keep dreamin!
 

Agricola

Senior Member
Dec 10, 2012
2,638
88
48
Are you missing the point Celsus? I know God is real, I have relationship with GOd, I know Jesus and Holy Spirit, I know they are real, therefore it is pointless trying to disprove events in the Bible.

What is the reason for you coming here and starting this thread?
 
C

Celsus

Guest
Are you missing the point Celsus? I know God is real, I have relationship with GOd, I know Jesus and Holy Spirit, I know they are real, therefore it is pointless trying to disprove events in the Bible.

What is the reason for you coming here and starting this thread?
If you can't show it you don't know it. Be honest and say you believe.
Knowledge can be demonstrated.
 

vic1980

Senior Member
Apr 25, 2013
1,653
199
63
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Re: You have nothing...

How do we know Babylon didn't just take Israel into captivity without God telling them
to do so? People have free will don't they? Just because something is written and
rationalized in a book doesn't mean that it's true. It's true that ancient Jews believed
this and wrote it down but that doesn't prove anything now does it?
I would suggest since you are a young man looking for the truth -myself having been in that situation also at one point in Life-, Pick up the Bible and read it from Genesis till Revelation before Judging the scriptures if they are true or not.

I will be praying for you, and many others as well will be praying for you, that the Lord will give you understanding on all these things, and that you can actknowledge the truth about the past and present time.

In due time you will be given understandning and all truth, you can start off by reading the old testament or new testament and find out all truth and also why we are sinner that are in need of a Savior.

Go for it if you want the truth , you will find yourself so wanting to know more of the scripture were it will lead you to, the end results will lead you to your salvation in Jesus Christ, your redeemer and savior and the free gift of the Holyspirit. But this up to you if you will put away all other ideas and views aside, and actually Read the bible from first page till the last.

You will be change God will make sure of that, and i know He will hear our prayer for you.

God Bless you young man
 
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Billyd

Senior Member
May 8, 2014
5,062
1,498
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All Christians here Read Mark 8:11-13. Think about this. Jesus, knew that it was useless to talk with those who had the truth in front of them, he entered into the ship and departed. Just prior to this exit, the Pharisees had just witnessed him feeding 4,000 with seven loaves of bread and a few small fish, yet they wanted another sign. I'm going to follow the example of Jesus, and leave this thread.
 
C

Celsus

Guest
All Christians here Read Mark 8:11-13. Think about this. Jesus, knew that it was useless to talk with those who had the truth in front of them, he entered into the ship and departed. Just prior to this exit, the Pharisees had just witnessed him feeding 4,000 with seven loaves of bread and a few small fish, yet they wanted another sign. I'm going to follow the example of Jesus, and leave this thread.
As all acknowledge, the basis for both the miraculous feeding stories in Mark’s gospel is the story of Elisha multiplying the twenty barley loaves for a hundred men in 2 Kings 4:42-44. There is in all three stories the initial assessment of how much food is available, the prophetic command to divide it among a hopelessly large number, the skeptical objection, puzzled obedience, and the astonishing climax in which not only all are fed, but they had leftovers as well! As Helms notes (p. 76), John has gone back to the source to add a detail. He has made the servant (paidarion) of Elisha into a boy (paidarion) whose five barley loaves Jesus uses to feed the crowd (John 6:9).

But there are more elaborate details in Mark’s stories which do not come from 2 Kings. They come from the Odyssey 3:34-38, 63-68; 4:30, 36, 51, 53-58, 65-68 (MacDonald, pp. 89-90). The reason Mark has two feeding miracles is to emulate Homer, who has Odysseus’ son Telemachus attend two feasts, and Mark has borrowed details from both. For the first feast, Telemachus and the disguised Athena sail to Pylos where King Nestor is presiding at a feast in honor of Poseidon. It is a sailors’ feast, so only men are present. Four thousand, five hundred of them are seated in nine units of five hundred each. Everyone ate to satiety and there were leftovers. In Mark’s first feast story, Jesus and his men also sail to the site of the meal. They encounter a group of five thousand men, andreV, males (no explanation is offered for this, a simple vestige of Homer). Jesus has them sit in discrete groups. After the Elisha-style miracle, everyone eats and is filled, and leftovers are gathered.

Homer’s second feast witnesses Telemachus going overland to Sparta, just as in Mark’s second episode, Jesus and the disciples walk to Galilee, where he meets the crowd of four thousand. This time, in both stories, there is no restriction to males. A servant of King Menelaus bids him send Telemachus and his companion away unfed, but the king will not, just as a disciple urges Jesus to send away the hapless crowd, and he will not. Everyone sits down to eat, in both cases, and in neither is there any mention of the elaborate arrangement of the diners as in the first feast scene. All are filled; leftovers are gathered. Mark has seemingly cast Jesus as Telemachus in both stories until the hero arrives at the banquet scene, whereupon he switches roles, having Jesus take the place of the hosts, Nestor and Menelaus.
 
J

JesusIsAll

Guest
From much I've read around here, when he obtained logins for a few of the CC members you see, also proving his omnipresence.
 
K

Kencore

Guest
Hey fellow Christians! Look if you guys can't see that this whole thread was a setup, well it is. Celsus made all of us bite on a subject that a new Christian would bit on and then he would come out with bot barrels blazing. It's a very very muslim thing to do. And I say that because he's refrencing 1400 Before Christ and saying there is a nation called palestine. Look there has never ever been a place called palestine. Find me a coin or a decree or a deed of trust in a place called palestine. You won't find it because it doesn't exist. Palestine was a roman derogatory term used by the Romans to indicate the enemies of Isreal. I also say this because of the blatant attempts to try to disprove the Bible.
Celsus go believe what ever you want, your a smart guy but when your soul leaves you you will meet the creator of knowledge known as Jesus and he will hold every word into account that you said against him. Good luck!
 
T

twotwo

Guest
Nov 22, 2013
72
0
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This shouldn't even be up for debate... God is the creator of all things... including us.
 
D

didymos

Guest
If you can't show it you don't know it. Be honest and say you believe.
Knowledge can be demonstrated.
Funny, last time I checked your profile you were still a 'christian.' :rolleyes:

 
C

Celsus

Guest
Funny, last time I checked your profile you were still a 'christian.' :rolleyes:

Irrelevant.

Is your definition of a troll someone who disagrees
with you, uses facts, and debunks your belief system?
 

Agricola

Senior Member
Dec 10, 2012
2,638
88
48
Irrelevant.

Is your definition of a troll someone who disagrees
with you, uses facts, and debunks your belief system?
You have not proved anything. You might be able to debate other religiously dead and non-believers into accepting this interpretation and theories, but you can not debate genuine born again believers from rejecting a real living God who they have daily interaction and relationship with.

Jesus is real, accept Jesus and follow him otherwise you will suffer the consequences when we move on to our next phase of existence.
 
D

didymos

Guest
Irrelevant.

Is your definition of a troll someone who disagrees
with you, uses facts, and debunks your belief system?
Ah, so you DO confess you pretended to be a christian at first. Pretending to be something you're not just to win people's trust and then trying to confuse and anger them is one of the aspects of being a troll. Your motives are untrue. You're not here to discuss God's revelation or even biblical archaeology with others... you're just out to undermine people's faith in God, the atheist troll you are. Btw I studied biblical archaelogy in depth; my insights didn't undermine my faith in God one bit. You're pedantic posts do nothing to diminish the truth of the Bible.
 
Dec 18, 2013
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I am a prolific reader of ancient literature and especially mythology. I own and have read Homer's Odyssey. Odysseus is even my favorite mythological character. I have also read the Bible completely. To say either book is influenced by the other is pretty far-fetched if you have actually read both books.


Seems to me to be wearisome nonsense of 20th and 21st Century revisionism once again. Revisionists understand neither the Bible nor the mythologies. They only ever revise and distort both.
 

JimmieD

Senior Member
Apr 11, 2014
895
18
18
As all acknowledge, the basis for both the miraculous feeding stories in Mark’s gospel is the story of Elisha multiplying the twenty barley loaves for a hundred men in 2 Kings 4:42-44. There is in all three stories the initial assessment of how much food is available, the prophetic command to divide it among a hopelessly large number, the skeptical objection, puzzled obedience, and the astonishing climax in which not only all are fed, but they had leftovers as well! As Helms notes (p. 76), John has gone back to the source to add a detail. He has made the servant (paidarion) of Elisha into a boy (paidarion) whose five barley loaves Jesus uses to feed the crowd (John 6:9).

But there are more elaborate details in Mark’s stories which do not come from 2 Kings. They come from the Odyssey 3:34-38, 63-68; 4:30, 36, 51, 53-58, 65-68 (MacDonald, pp. 89-90). The reason Mark has two feeding miracles is to emulate Homer, who has Odysseus’ son Telemachus attend two feasts, and Mark has borrowed details from both. For the first feast, Telemachus and the disguised Athena sail to Pylos where King Nestor is presiding at a feast in honor of Poseidon. It is a sailors’ feast, so only men are present. Four thousand, five hundred of them are seated in nine units of five hundred each. Everyone ate to satiety and there were leftovers. In Mark’s first feast story, Jesus and his men also sail to the site of the meal. They encounter a group of five thousand men, andreV, males (no explanation is offered for this, a simple vestige of Homer). Jesus has them sit in discrete groups. After the Elisha-style miracle, everyone eats and is filled, and leftovers are gathered.

Homer’s second feast witnesses Telemachus going overland to Sparta, just as in Mark’s second episode, Jesus and the disciples walk to Galilee, where he meets the crowd of four thousand. This time, in both stories, there is no restriction to males. A servant of King Menelaus bids him send Telemachus and his companion away unfed, but the king will not, just as a disciple urges Jesus to send away the hapless crowd, and he will not. Everyone sits down to eat, in both cases, and in neither is there any mention of the elaborate arrangement of the diners as in the first feast scene. All are filled; leftovers are gathered. Mark has seemingly cast Jesus as Telemachus in both stories until the hero arrives at the banquet scene, whereupon he switches roles, having Jesus take the place of the hosts, Nestor and Menelaus.
I would buy the Elisha/2 Kings allusion as being undeniable, but I don't see a connection to the Odyssey. It seems spurious and unwarranted at best, especially when the allusion is clearly related to 2 Kings 4. Just reading the Odyssey and Mark side by side shows that they really aren't related. Why did you only look at some of the supposed similarities between the texts in your post? An honest evaluation would also look at divergences, which by the way are much greater than the similarities.

Oh, I also note that you've plagarized Robert Price. Nice. (Original Source: New Testament Narrative as Old Testament Midrash by Robert M. Price)