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Can I worship another God? Should I participate in a barroom brawl killing someone with my concealed weapon? Shall I say nothing to my son if he is a drunkard and disrespectful? I could go on and on, but they are not the only laws that gentiles should keep. What I am saying is that this was the beginning of understanding for them so they wouldn't be overwhelmed. I will highlight in red, from the scripture you so graciously quoted, giving reason to their decision to those who were new to the faith. It was a very compassionate thing for them to do. Verse21
When you read scripture without thinking of the circumstance the scripture was written to, you get it mixed up. That is what has happened here, and I will spell it out, but for some strange reason, when it comes to what scripture says, once an idea of what it is about gets in a mind it is stuck there.
Until Christ was crucified when a gentile decided to make the one true God their God they went through a sort of process we do not to become citizens of another country. They became Jews. Then scores of people wanted to join, some only going to the synagogue. Many were not sincere and fell away, taking Jews with them to their fun secular parties and idol worship. The Rabbis decided to make anyone who wanted to join them take on the customs of Jews, the tightened the requirements. The called these rules the Law of Moses, and said no physical circumcision, then God won't accept you. We read a lot about it in the New Testament.
Paul was given a special commission to break this order down, Paul almost lost his life over this.
James, brother of Christ, was in charge of the council in Jerusalem head of the church. They had to pass on whether or not the gentiles had to do these things or not. That is what Acts 15 is about. The decision of the council was that they did not have to become Jews to be accepted by God, but they had to learn about the God they were now worshipping. It was in the synagogue they could learn, they had to be accepted into instructions there, but every synagogue would not let gentiles in to hear the word. However, if they would obey the laws given in Acts 15, the synagogue would let these people come to hear the words of the Lord.
Act 15:20 but instead we should write to them to abstain from things polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from eating anything that has been strangled, and from blood.
Act 15:21 For since ancient times, Moses has had those who proclaim him in every city, and every Sabbath day he is read aloud in the synagogues."
Honestly this is how it is, but I really don't think anyone will be able to hear me to check me out for if it is true or not.
I do wonder if our debates leads anyone to truth. The debate is meant to lead others to where the information presented comes from and check for accuracy. For instance when one says we are not to listen to law and gives scripture, and another says scripture also says to follow law, you would think that posters would check out law thoroughly to see the truth.
Until Christ was crucified when a gentile decided to make the one true God their God they went through a sort of process we do not to become citizens of another country. They became Jews. Then scores of people wanted to join, some only going to the synagogue. Many were not sincere and fell away, taking Jews with them to their fun secular parties and idol worship. The Rabbis decided to make anyone who wanted to join them take on the customs of Jews, the tightened the requirements. The called these rules the Law of Moses, and said no physical circumcision, then God won't accept you. We read a lot about it in the New Testament.
Paul was given a special commission to break this order down, Paul almost lost his life over this.
James, brother of Christ, was in charge of the council in Jerusalem head of the church. They had to pass on whether or not the gentiles had to do these things or not. That is what Acts 15 is about. The decision of the council was that they did not have to become Jews to be accepted by God, but they had to learn about the God they were now worshipping. It was in the synagogue they could learn, they had to be accepted into instructions there, but every synagogue would not let gentiles in to hear the word. However, if they would obey the laws given in Acts 15, the synagogue would let these people come to hear the words of the Lord.
Act 15:20 but instead we should write to them to abstain from things polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from eating anything that has been strangled, and from blood.
Act 15:21 For since ancient times, Moses has had those who proclaim him in every city, and every Sabbath day he is read aloud in the synagogues."
Honestly this is how it is, but I really don't think anyone will be able to hear me to check me out for if it is true or not.
I do wonder if our debates leads anyone to truth. The debate is meant to lead others to where the information presented comes from and check for accuracy. For instance when one says we are not to listen to law and gives scripture, and another says scripture also says to follow law, you would think that posters would check out law thoroughly to see the truth.
New American Standard Bible
When He said, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete.
But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear.
[h=3]Hebrews: The New Priestly Service[/h]8 Now this is the main point of the things we are saying: We have such a High Priest, who is seated at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens, 2 a Minister of the sanctuary and of the true tabernacle which the Lord erected, and not man.
3 For every high priest is appointed to offer both gifts and sacrifices. Therefore it isnecessary that this One also have something to offer. 4 For if He were on earth, He would not be a priest, since there are priests who offer the gifts according to the law; 5 who serve the copy and shadow of the heavenly things, as Moses was divinely instructed when he was about to make the tabernacle. For He said, “Seethat you make all things according to the pattern shown you on the mountain.”[a]6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises.
[h=3]A New Covenant[/h]7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second. 8 Because finding fault with them, He says: “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 9 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the Lord. 10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 11 None of them shall teach his neighbor, and none his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them. 12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deeds[b] I will remember no more.”[c]
When He said, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete.
But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear.
[h=3]Hebrews: The New Priestly Service[/h]8 Now this is the main point of the things we are saying: We have such a High Priest, who is seated at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens, 2 a Minister of the sanctuary and of the true tabernacle which the Lord erected, and not man.
3 For every high priest is appointed to offer both gifts and sacrifices. Therefore it isnecessary that this One also have something to offer. 4 For if He were on earth, He would not be a priest, since there are priests who offer the gifts according to the law; 5 who serve the copy and shadow of the heavenly things, as Moses was divinely instructed when he was about to make the tabernacle. For He said, “Seethat you make all things according to the pattern shown you on the mountain.”[a]6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises.
[h=3]A New Covenant[/h]7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second. 8 Because finding fault with them, He says: “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 9 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the Lord. 10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 11 None of them shall teach his neighbor, and none his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them. 12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deeds[b] I will remember no more.”[c]
What this amounts to is denying Christ! If you had faith in Christ you would believe Him and Christ said everything of His Father stayed.
You can check scripture to find that everything Christ made better is clearly shown. Animal blood, the earthly temple, the High Priest, nothing was destroyed when Christ made it better and replaced it. Christ did not say that He made the feasts better. The gentiles brought with them many feasts, moons and days and they were not to be accepted. If Christians kept the ones God ordained, they were not to be judged for it saying they were part of the strange ways of the Hebrews.
You can check scripture to find that everything Christ made better is clearly shown. Animal blood, the earthly temple, the High Priest, nothing was destroyed when Christ made it better and replaced it. Christ did not say that He made the feasts better. The gentiles brought with them many feasts, moons and days and they were not to be accepted. If Christians kept the ones God ordained, they were not to be judged for it saying they were part of the strange ways of the Hebrews.
You evidently weren't reading all my posts. I don't build booths. And yes, studying them and doing them are 2 different things. Whatever we do in the Spirit because of our understanding of studying things is right when we are lead by the Holy Spirit. If you assume things that aren't true of me then you are a faults accuser.
Leviticus 19:11-18
11 Ye shall not steal , neither deal falsely , neither lie one to another.
12 And ye shall not swear by my name falsely, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God: I am the LORD.
13 Thou shalt not defraud thy neighbour, neither rob him: the wages of him that is hired shall not abide with thee all night until the morning.
14 Thou shalt not curse the deaf, nor put a stumblingblock before the blind, but shalt fear thy God: I am the LORD.
15 Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment: thou shalt not respect the person of the poor, nor honour the person of the mighty: but in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour.
16 Thou shalt not go up and down as a talebearer among thy people: neither shalt thou stand against the blood of thy neighbour: I am the LORD.
17 Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.
18 Thou shalt not avenge , nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.
These are the principles of the law. These things are read during the convocations of the feasts. I do them.
Leviticus 19:11-18
11 Ye shall not steal , neither deal falsely , neither lie one to another.
12 And ye shall not swear by my name falsely, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God: I am the LORD.
13 Thou shalt not defraud thy neighbour, neither rob him: the wages of him that is hired shall not abide with thee all night until the morning.
14 Thou shalt not curse the deaf, nor put a stumblingblock before the blind, but shalt fear thy God: I am the LORD.
15 Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment: thou shalt not respect the person of the poor, nor honour the person of the mighty: but in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour.
16 Thou shalt not go up and down as a talebearer among thy people: neither shalt thou stand against the blood of thy neighbour: I am the LORD.
17 Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.
18 Thou shalt not avenge , nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.
These are the principles of the law. These things are read during the convocations of the feasts. I do them.
And?
As time passed, corrupt kings of Israel demanded pagan worship, and eventually the temple that Solomon had built was ransacked. The proper function of the temple had been totally annihilated. Finally, a righteous king named Hezekiah came to the rescue, restoring the propriety of worship ordained by God. Among Hezekiah’s first acts was to repair the Temple to its former state, which had been closed earlier during the reign of Ahaz. He reorganized the services of the priests and Levites, and purged the Temple and its vessels, as we read in the history of 2 Chronicles 29:3. “He in the first year of his reign, in the first month, opened the doors of the house of the LORD, and repaired them.” He resolved to abolish idolatry from his kingdom, and to this end he destroyed the high places and even the bronze serpent made by Moses that had become an object of idolatrous worship according to the command of God as recorded in Numbers 21:8. Not by coincidence, we notice, in this story recorded of 2 Chronicles, that the first month, which envelopes Passover, and the feast of Unleavened Bread are mentioned. 2 Chronicles 29:27 continues with:“And Hezekiah commanded to offer the burnt offering upon the altar. And when the burnt offering began, the song of the LORD began also with the trumpets, and with the instruments ordained by David king of Israel. In the **third month they began to lay the foundation of the heaps, and finished them in the seventh month.” Then, in the third month, in relation to the giving of the law, and Pentecost, and the seventh month beginning with trumpets, then atonement, and finally the “Feast of Tabernacles” we also see events included accordingly in 2 Chronicles 31:6-8.“And concerning the children of Israel and Judah, that dwelt in the cities of Judah, they also brought in the tithe of oxen and sheep, and the tithe of holy things which were consecrated unto the LORD their God, and laid them by heaps. In the third month they began to lay the foundation of the heaps, and finished them in the seventh month. And when Hezekiah and the princes came and saw the heaps, they blessed the LORD, and his people Israel.”
As I said before, the feasts are past present and future depicting a cycle of evidence that is ongoing.
As time passed, corrupt kings of Israel demanded pagan worship, and eventually the temple that Solomon had built was ransacked. The proper function of the temple had been totally annihilated. Finally, a righteous king named Hezekiah came to the rescue, restoring the propriety of worship ordained by God. Among Hezekiah’s first acts was to repair the Temple to its former state, which had been closed earlier during the reign of Ahaz. He reorganized the services of the priests and Levites, and purged the Temple and its vessels, as we read in the history of 2 Chronicles 29:3. “He in the first year of his reign, in the first month, opened the doors of the house of the LORD, and repaired them.” He resolved to abolish idolatry from his kingdom, and to this end he destroyed the high places and even the bronze serpent made by Moses that had become an object of idolatrous worship according to the command of God as recorded in Numbers 21:8. Not by coincidence, we notice, in this story recorded of 2 Chronicles, that the first month, which envelopes Passover, and the feast of Unleavened Bread are mentioned. 2 Chronicles 29:27 continues with:“And Hezekiah commanded to offer the burnt offering upon the altar. And when the burnt offering began, the song of the LORD began also with the trumpets, and with the instruments ordained by David king of Israel. In the **third month they began to lay the foundation of the heaps, and finished them in the seventh month.” Then, in the third month, in relation to the giving of the law, and Pentecost, and the seventh month beginning with trumpets, then atonement, and finally the “Feast of Tabernacles” we also see events included accordingly in 2 Chronicles 31:6-8.“And concerning the children of Israel and Judah, that dwelt in the cities of Judah, they also brought in the tithe of oxen and sheep, and the tithe of holy things which were consecrated unto the LORD their God, and laid them by heaps. In the third month they began to lay the foundation of the heaps, and finished them in the seventh month. And when Hezekiah and the princes came and saw the heaps, they blessed the LORD, and his people Israel.”
As I said before, the feasts are past present and future depicting a cycle of evidence that is ongoing.
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My point is that people were saying you to be circumcised and had to obey the law to be saved. The council responded back that you only needed to avoid the mean and fornication. They weren't speaking against obedience to the Law as a whole.
Kohen, If the point/issue was strictly circumcision, then why mention the other things
Just a question
Thee carnal mind that you posted upon post 279 in romans , Does this mind focus on teaching ot circumcision, feast , or new moons or special days to the assembly, or teaching to love one another ? At one point the circumcision was very important upon God people ,in the book of acts we can read there are beliving jews, that wanted Gentiles to not only obey the law of moses but become circumcise. But the Disciples agree not to put such burden on the Gentiles. Neither they want to be under that yoke. Yet Jesus disciples where jews.
There a diffrents between the old covenant & the Law of Christ.
Galatians 5:6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything, but faith working through love.
call to serve one another
Galatians 5:13-14 For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another. For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
One cannot put themself back under the old covenant and be under the new covenant at the same time. The old covenant was given to Israel by God servent Moses it was very heavy, there were laws that put one to death. the only one that can circumcision the heart is God.
Deuteronomy 30:6 And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.
Just something to ponder on God bless
Thee carnal mind that you posted upon post 279 in romans , Does this mind focus on teaching ot circumcision, feast , or new moons or special days to the assembly, or teaching to love one another ? At one point the circumcision was very important upon God people ,in the book of acts we can read there are beliving jews, that wanted Gentiles to not only obey the law of moses but become circumcise. But the Disciples agree not to put such burden on the Gentiles. Neither they want to be under that yoke. Yet Jesus disciples where jews.
There a diffrents between the old covenant & the Law of Christ.
Galatians 5:6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything, but faith working through love.
call to serve one another
Galatians 5:13-14 For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another. For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
One cannot put themself back under the old covenant and be under the new covenant at the same time. The old covenant was given to Israel by God servent Moses it was very heavy, there were laws that put one to death. the only one that can circumcision the heart is God.
Deuteronomy 30:6 And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.
Just something to ponder on God bless
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K
The Lord's prayer is an example. The disciples asked Him how shall we pray? then Jesus gave the example and its not a prayer that we should pray verbatim. It is a guide or example.
Matt 6
After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
Our Father who art in heaven hallowed be thy name
Start with glorifying Him.
Give us this day our Daily bread
Signifies daily prayer that feeds and gives sustenance
For give us our debts as we forgive our debtors
Signifies that we are not perfect and have flaws and we should ask for forgiveness when we pray
Lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil
Saying that we should pray not be tempted and when we are deliver us
For thine is the kingdom and glory forever
End with praise.
Matt 6
After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
Our Father who art in heaven hallowed be thy name
Start with glorifying Him.
Give us this day our Daily bread
Signifies daily prayer that feeds and gives sustenance
For give us our debts as we forgive our debtors
Signifies that we are not perfect and have flaws and we should ask for forgiveness when we pray
Lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil
Saying that we should pray not be tempted and when we are deliver us
For thine is the kingdom and glory forever
End with praise.
GAL.4 [8] Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods.[9] But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?[10] YE OBSERVE DAYS, AND MONTHS, AND TIMES, AND YEARS.[11] I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.
Galatians 4 says nothing about sabbaths or feast days. Its speaking of those who observe times.
DEUT.18 [9] When thou art come into the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not learn to do after the abominations of those nations.[10] There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, OR AN OBSERVER OF TIMES, or an enchanter, or a witch,[11] Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.
The same thing goes on to this very day. Its speaking of the occult. Those who observe certain days by use of horoscopes?
2 CHR.33 [3] For he built again the high places which Hezekiah his father had broken down, and he reared up altars for Baalim, and made groves, and worshipped all the host of heaven, and served them.[4] Also he built altars in the house of the LORD, whereof the LORD had said, In Jerusalem shall my name be for ever.[5] And he built altars for all the host of heaven in the two courts of the house of the LORD.[6] And he caused his children to pass through the fire in the valley of the son of Hinnom: ALSO HE OBSERVED TIMES, and used enchantments, and used witchcraft, and dealt with a familiar spirit, and with wizards: he wrought much evil in the sight of the LORD, to provoke him to anger
Enchantments, witchcraft, familiar spirits, and wizards. Its speaking of the occult. Not following sabbath days.
LEV.19 [26] Ye shall not eat any thing with the blood: neither shall ye use enchantment, NOR OBSERVE TIMES.[27] Ye shall not round the corners of your heads, neither shalt thou mar the corners of thy beard.[28] Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you: I am the LORD.[29] Do not prostitute thy daughter, to cause her to be a whore; lest the land fall to whoredom, and the land become full of wickedness.[30] YE SHALL KEEP MY SABBATHS, and reverence my sanctuary: I am the LORD.
I guess this scripture says it all. You shall not observe times BUT you will keep my sabbaths.
Galatians 4 says nothing about sabbaths or feast days. Its speaking of those who observe times.
DEUT.18 [9] When thou art come into the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not learn to do after the abominations of those nations.[10] There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, OR AN OBSERVER OF TIMES, or an enchanter, or a witch,[11] Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.
The same thing goes on to this very day. Its speaking of the occult. Those who observe certain days by use of horoscopes?
2 CHR.33 [3] For he built again the high places which Hezekiah his father had broken down, and he reared up altars for Baalim, and made groves, and worshipped all the host of heaven, and served them.[4] Also he built altars in the house of the LORD, whereof the LORD had said, In Jerusalem shall my name be for ever.[5] And he built altars for all the host of heaven in the two courts of the house of the LORD.[6] And he caused his children to pass through the fire in the valley of the son of Hinnom: ALSO HE OBSERVED TIMES, and used enchantments, and used witchcraft, and dealt with a familiar spirit, and with wizards: he wrought much evil in the sight of the LORD, to provoke him to anger
Enchantments, witchcraft, familiar spirits, and wizards. Its speaking of the occult. Not following sabbath days.
LEV.19 [26] Ye shall not eat any thing with the blood: neither shall ye use enchantment, NOR OBSERVE TIMES.[27] Ye shall not round the corners of your heads, neither shalt thou mar the corners of thy beard.[28] Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you: I am the LORD.[29] Do not prostitute thy daughter, to cause her to be a whore; lest the land fall to whoredom, and the land become full of wickedness.[30] YE SHALL KEEP MY SABBATHS, and reverence my sanctuary: I am the LORD.
I guess this scripture says it all. You shall not observe times BUT you will keep my sabbaths.
