We establish the Law...but how?

[royalscot]

]I think many of these ideas are man made foolishness.
[/U]
We are punished in this life when adultery is committed. There is forgiveness for sin, even that of adultery. King David and Bathsheba is an example. There was confession, forgiveness, and atonement but still the sin had results in their life. Scripture talks of the seriousness of this sin, of our need to keep it out of our world if we are to live with peace and security. They had stoning for serious crimes before prisons, and our Lord is brought up for ridicule over and over for ever mentioning this punishment. There were so many safeguards as well, but no one see that.

We are living in a world where adultery is accepted as the norm, in fact. There is no protection of marriage for any woman who has children today will probably lose the safety of a Father for her children to care for them. We are being punished for our adultery.

It is also foolishness to say that God chooses what scripture goes to what time or what people. God did not create one world for Israel, one for gentiles, and another for special dates of our world. All people at all times live under one God with one set of principles who acts in one way.

if your a believer, when were you ever punish, for sin.
Death in Adam, Life in Christ
12 Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned---13 for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law.14 Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sinning was not like the transgression of Adam, who was a type of the one who was to come.
15 But the free gift is not like the trespass. For if many died through one man's trespass, much more have the grace of God and the free gift by the grace of that one man Jesus Christ abounded for many.16 And the free gift is not like the result of that one man's sin. For the judgment following one trespass brought condemnation, but the free gift following many trespasses brought justification.17 For if, because of one man's trespass, death reigned through that one man, much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man Jesus Christ.
18 Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men.19 For as by the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one man's obedience the many will be made righteous.20 Now the law came in to increase the trespass, but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more,21 so that, as sin reigned in death, grace also might reign through righteousness leading to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

believers ideas, and none believer ,differ greatly.

23 But before faith came, we were kept in custody under the law, being shut up to the faith which was later to be revealed.24 Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith.25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.2


.7 But when they persisted in asking Him, He straightened up, and said to them, "He who is without sin among you, let him be the first to throw a stone at her John 8

 

[RedTent]

well, Ma'am, there's a difference under the New Covenant between curses and consequences.
there will almost always be consequences when we sin...horizontally.
between us and other people.
but our forgiveness in Christ is forever fixed. we can't undo it.

and though i agree with you that sin is, indeed, serious business,
there are believers worldwide living in accordance with the rules
who are experiencing the opposite of peace and security.

The truth of the Lord is the truth, and so many of you rail against it. Some say not to read scripture if it is about law, for law is only in our hearts. Yet the truth of scripture being in our hearts cannot cancel what is law in scripture. Some say that if you read the law in spirit and truth, you must read that what Paul said we were free from, all the rituals given to remind people of the spiritual law has to be included. That is not the truth. Some say that the God of Israel is not their God, and a separate God from the gentile God so what is told Israel is separate, and that is not the truth. At the same time, they insist that anything scripture tells us that is just for a special people such as the land set aside for them would have to include gentiles if God the Father was our God, and that again in not the truth.

 

[crossnote]

The truth of the Lord is the truth, and so many of you rail against it. Some say not to read scripture if it is about law, for law is only in our hearts. Yet the truth of scripture being in our hearts cannot cancel what is law in scripture. Some say that if you read the law in spirit and truth, you must read that what Paul said we were free from, all the rituals given to remind people of the spiritual law has to be included. That is not the truth. Some say that the God of Israel is not their God, and a separate God from the gentile God so what is told Israel is separate, and that is not the truth. At the same time, they insist that anything scripture tells us that is just for a special people such as the land set aside for them would have to include gentiles if God the Father was our God, and that again in not the truth.

Since Christ lives in us through His Holy Spirit and leads us not to refrain from pork as prohibited in the law...or observe the Sabbath, then are we breaking the Law?

 

[chubbena]

The handwriting of ordinances were all those rules and regulations that GOD gave to Moses to give to the children of Israel.(is this a trick question)

Please read Deuteronomy 28 and see the children of Israel had a choice. Most chose death. Only a few chose life. And they are example for Christians. But if one realizes the letter to the Colossians were not written for Jews but for gentile believers one should be able to see the meaning of "ordinances" in that gentiles were considered "outside the kingdom" just as Ephesians 2:12-13 says: remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world. But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near by the blood of Christ.

The law would be a curse.

It very well could be but it's meant to be blessings cf Deuteronomy 28.

JESUS(CHRIST)had not come into the world yet,so then the Israelites would not get any help and they would have to be perfect on the inside before you would be accepted nevertheless GOD dealt with them at that time according to the law,so if they would have had faith in GODs word then they would have been accepted but now we are under grace and if someone wants to try and be obedient to GOD in the old testament then they get no help and need to be perfect and if they could be perfect then why did GOD in CHRIST come into this world in flesh.

He is from the beginning of the world and He spoke through Moses and the Prophets. Perfection can be attained when one believes in the provisions of God typified by animal sacrifices in the past and realized by the Christ. Those by faith in the OT were sanctified by the Christ the same as NT Christians cf Hebrews 11. The OT scripture spoke of His grace long before the Christ came in the flesh but then again only a few understood - not unlike today.

At the time it would be the jews,but you see why paul said "against us" because only JESUS could keep(GODs standard) the law.

Got to ask why a new being in Christ with the power of the Spirit could not keep God's standard. Got to ask why the Christ said "be perfect as the heavenly Father is perfect" instead of "in Me you are already perfect".

the change took place in out spirits and then sealed so no sin would contaminate it,now we are a new creation and don't have a desire to sin,but our bodies have not been glorified yet and needs to be renewed to the change that that took placein the spirit.

So what is the argument here? Why would some speak against the law here? And why would one start a thread on establishing the law just to speak against it - even when it's clear that our faith in Christ establishes the law?

 

[chubbena]

do you have the dates or religions answer to taboo, or dogma.
and whats, are required for the new covenant believer. (he is a hint) jesus, jesus jesus jesus christ christ christ christ.

Just another Jesus when one does not live by every Word from His mouth. Only when one reads Jeremiah 31 without reading Jeremiah 11 to see why the old covenant is broken.

He says: Obey me and do everything I command you, and you will be my people, and I will be your God.
One might want to search the whole Bible how many times He said that.

 

[chubbena]

So the curses warned to Israel also apply to the Church? Christians can't eat pork? The Church is to ready herself for a flood by water. Please.

Very well said. One might eat whatever move about on earth because He has cleansed everything i.e. all kinds of four-footed animals, as well as reptiles and birds. Only the faithless would not eat worms, cockroaches, rats, cats, dogs.

 

[RedTent]

So the curses warned to Israel also apply to the Church? Christians can't eat pork? The Church is to ready herself for a flood by water. Please.

This post is so telling!! I have read and studied the covenant promise that God made with Moses about blessings and curses of that covenant, and I believe scripture. You show that you haven't. I have listened to God as He told Hebrews not to eat food from animals who ate unclean garbage, I followed through as Christ said God watches what comes out of a man not what goes in, I listened to why God told the Hebrews about food, and I listened to Paul when Paul said we are to follow the Holy Spirit to guide us, not physical rituals. You haven't done these things. I have studied the covenants that God made with man and take the promises God made with man seriously. Every time there is a rainbow, I am reminded of that covenant. You haven't or you wouldn't bring up the flood as something we should ready ourselves for.

 

[john832]

Very well said. One might eat whatever move about on earth because He has cleansed everything i.e. all kinds of four-footed animals, as well as reptiles and birds. Only the faithless would not eat worms, cockroaches, rats, cats, dogs.

You forgot skunks, possums and maggots in the list of edibles.

 

[crossnote]

Very well said. One might eat whatever move about on earth because He has cleansed everything i.e. all kinds of four-footed animals, as well as reptiles and birds. Only the faithless would not eat worms, cockroaches, rats, cats, dogs.

It would be faithless if there were a command attached, otherwise it would simply be a matter of being stomachless.

 

[blue_ladybug]

You forgot skunks, possums and maggots in the list of edibles.

​Ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwww!!!!!!

 

[crossnote]

This post is so telling!! I have read and studied the covenant promise that God made with Moses about blessings and curses of that covenant, and I believe scripture. You show that you haven't. I have listened to God as He told Hebrews not to eat food from animals who ate unclean garbage, I followed through as Christ said God watches what comes out of a man not what goes in, I listened to why God told the Hebrews about food, and I listened to Paul when Paul said we are to follow the Holy Spirit to guide us, not physical rituals. You haven't done these things. I have studied the covenants that God made with man and take the promises God made with man seriously. Every time there is a rainbow, I am reminded of that covenant. You haven't or you wouldn't bring up the flood as something we should ready ourselves for.

Yes, I've read that temporary covenant God made with Moses through angels as mediator.
But I've also read the everlasting covenant God made with Abraham (remember him?)

''I haven't done those things''. (???) Oh okay, if you say so .

No, I was only responding to comments of yours such as 'God doesn't have one word for one group and another Word for another group, since it's all the same God'.

....nice try.

 

[RedTent]

Yes, I've read that temporary covenant God made with Moses through angels as mediator.
But I've also read the everlasting covenant God made with Abraham (remember him?)

''I haven't done those things''. (???) Oh okay, if you say so .

No, I was only responding to comments of yours such as 'God doesn't have one word for one group and another Word for another group, since it's all the same God'.

....nice try.

And just where do you come up with your decision about what is a temporary covenant and what is an everlasting covenant? Can we decide to believe or not believe the Lord? What of the scripture we can believe and what not to believe? You are very clever. I so hope we have Christians who read you and believe in scripture and the Lord.

 

[crossnote]

And just where do you come up with your decision about what is a temporary covenant and what is an everlasting covenant? Can we decide to believe or not believe the Lord? What of the scripture we can believe and what not to believe? You are very clever. I so hope we have Christians who read you and believe in scripture and the Lord.

I find the first covenant temporary in the book of Hebrews.


Hebrews 7:12, 19, 22 For when the priesthood changes, a change in the law must come as well.
for the law made nothing perfect. On the other hand a better hope is introduced, through which we draw near to God.
accordingly Jesus has become the guarantee of a better covenant.

Hebrews 8:7-10, 13 For if that first covenant had been faultless, no one would have looked for a second one.
But showing its fault, God says to them, “Look, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will complete a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah.
“It will not be like the covenant that I made with their fathers, on the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of Egypt, because they did not continue in my covenant and I had no regard for them, says the Lord.
“For this is the covenant that I will establish with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord. I will put my laws in their minds and I will inscribe them on their hearts. And I will be their God and they will be my people.
When he speaks of a new covenant, he makes the first obsolete. Now what is growing obsolete and aging is about to disappear.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

So the one who goes around blatantly ignoring and breaking the Law is the one who is a mature Christian and fed on meat?

The change took place in the spirit and the person no longer has a desire to sin,but the body has not been glorified yet and the mind needs to be renewed to the change that took place in the spirit.

the bible says that GOD is a SPIRIT and must be worshipped in spirit and truth.

So GOD is relating to us SPIRIT to spirit and not SPIRIT to flesh.
A person needs to renew their mind.

If you are mature and breaking God's Law, lying, stealing taking God's name in vain, etc. and labeling yourself a mature Christian, then you'll excuse me if I remain in diapers.

the spirit of a person that has been reborn is perfect because its GODs workmanship and it cannot sin and is sealed and does not participate in the sins of the flesh;but the mind needs to be renewed.


Paul said that he delights in the law of GOD after the inward man but there was another law warring against the law of his mind and bringing him into captivity to the law of sin that was in his members.

Here is another for you...

Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

GOD gave dominion of the earth to man and JESUS was here in the world the right way.He gave dominion to man and a gift is not a gift if you give it to them and then you tell the receiver of the gift what they better do with it, so GOD sent JESUS who was GOD/man.
JESUS took back the power of the earth that Adam handed over to satan.

GOD commanded that if a person doesn't sin then death cannot hold them and JESUS never sinned,so he rose from the dead and now all power in heaven and earth belongs to him,and then he gave us grace before leaving and now we have access to this grace through faith.







If you are mature and breaking God's Law, lying, stealing taking God's name in vain, etc. and labeling yourself a mature Christian, then you'll excuse me if I remain in diapers.

 

[Elin]

Very well said. One might eat whatever move about on earth because He has cleansed everything i.e. all kinds of four-footed animals, as well as reptiles and birds. Only the faithless would not eat worms, cockroaches, rats, cats, dogs.

Poor God, he made a mistake in Ge 9:3.

And Jesus made the same mistake in Mk 7:19.

Tsk, tsk, tsk. . .leaving us an errant word of truth.

 

[royalscot]

Just another Jesus when one does not live by every Word from His mouth. Only when one reads Jeremiah 31 without reading Jeremiah 11 to see why the old covenant is broken.

He says: Obey me and do everything I command you, and you will be my people, and I will be your God.
One might want to search the whole Bible how many times He said that.

what command are you talking about.

obey what. when was the law of moses given to a gentile. and with no temple 70ad. again you have been asked this several times. with no answers from your side of the pc. take your religious taboo, and dogmas and place them some ware in the time line of history to the facts. again with no temple of stone, how can you follow the full law,

7 so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

and telling people there is a son of god, and telling them god saves, is still god that saves them.
when did it say the harvest is ours, and we share in this harvest. or was the deal you all get eternal life, no matter, how long you, have helped with the harvest.

 

[Elin]

And just where do you come up with your decision about what is a temporary covenant and what is an everlasting covenant?

You need to spend more time in the NT words spoken by the Son in these last days (Heb 1:1-2)
through the NT writers so you can remember

Heb 8:13, where we learn that the Mosaic covenant, which was temporarily added (Gal 3:19; Ro 5:20) to the Abrahamic covenant, has been made obsolete, fading away, and completely faded at the destruction of Jerusalem.

There is no more Sinaitic covenant, for it was broken (Jer 11:10) and nullified,
and God made a new covenant to replace it (Jer 31:31-34; Heb 8:8-13),
based on a new law, the law of Christ (Mt 22:37-39) written on the heart, by the
Holy Spirit, of those in the new covenant, giving them to know what is loving and
what is not loving without a written code of myriad regulations, and thus
fulfilling all the law and the prophets (Mt 22:40).

Only God could come up with a plan so blessed for his people.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

And you have a scripture for this? In the mean time...

1Ch 28:2 Then David the king stood up upon his feet, and said, Hear me, my brethren, and my people: As for me, I had in mine heart to build an house of rest for the ark of the covenant of the LORD, and for the footstool of our God, and had made ready for the building:
1Ch 28:3 But God said unto me, Thou shalt not build an house for my name, because thou hast been a man of war, and hast shed blood.

David was not perfect, yet we read this...

Act 13:22 And when he had removed him, he raised up unto them David to be their king; to whom also he gave testimony, and said, I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after mine own heart, which shall fulfil all my will.

And we also read this...

Eze 37:24 And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them.
Eze 37:25 And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever.

God is going to resurrect imperfect David and make him king over all Israel.





Then what are you saying? You say not to keep it, that we shouldn't obey it but you are not throwing it out?



Deu 5:29 O that there were such an heart in them, that they would fear me, and keep all my commandments always, that it might be well with them, and with their children for ever!

Psa 19:7 The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.

I am pretty sure you don't know what the Law is, why it was given and what it produces.

And you have a scripture for this?

Romans 8:3
king james version
3.)For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

In the mean time...

1Ch 28:2 Then David the king stood up upon his feet, and said, Hear me, my brethren, and my people: As for me, I had in mine heart to build an house of rest for the ark of the covenant of the LORD, and for the footstool of our God, and had made ready for the building:
1Ch 28:3 But God said unto me, Thou shalt not build an house for my name, because thou hast been a man of war, and hast shed blood.

David was not perfect, yet we read this...

Act 13:22 And when he had removed him, he raised up unto them David to be their king; to whom also he gave testimony, and said, I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after mine own heart, which shall fulfil all my will.

And we also read this...

Eze 37:24 And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them.
Eze 37:25 And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever.

God is going to resurrect imperfect David and make him king over all Israel.

that's how GOD dealt with them at that time

Then what are you saying? You say not to keep it, that we shouldn't obey it but you are not throwing it out?

we are under grace now and anyone trying to keep/obey the law will not be accepted,because GOD only accepts perfection,remember,SPIRIT to spirit and not SPIRIT to flesh. No man will be justified by the deeds of the law.By the law is the knowledge of sin.
so the law should not be thrown out.
It should be a guide to CHRIST.

Its either CHRIST or its you.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

Please share your understand of "the handwriting of ordinance that was against us" but allow me to share mine first:
The law is either a blessing or curse depending whether the Israelites obey or disobey cf Deuteronomy 28.
He repeated in Deuteronomy 30:11-20 Now what I am commanding you today is not too difficult for you or beyond your reach. It is not up in heaven, so that you have to ask, “Who will ascend into heaven to get it and proclaim it to us so we may obey it?” Nor is it beyond the sea, so that you have to ask, “Who will cross the sea to get it and proclaim it to us so we may obey it?” No, the word is very near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart so you may obey it. See, I set before you today life and prosperity, death and destruction. For I command you today to love the Lord your God, to walk in obedience to him, and to keep his commands, decrees and laws; then you will live and increase, and the Lord your God will bless you in the land you are entering to possess. But if your heart turns away and you are not obedient, and if you are drawn away to bow down to other gods and worship them, I declare to you this day that you will certainly be destroyed. You will not live long in the land you are crossing the Jordan to enter and possess. This day I call the heavens and the earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live and that you may love the Lord your God, listen to his voice, and hold fast to him. For the Lord is your life, and he will give you many years in the land he swore to give to your fathers, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

There is nothing against the people of God if they choose wisely i.e. to obey His Word.

Now come back to the verse "...nailed the handwriting of ordinances that was against us to the cross." Who are the "us"?

He died on the cross so that our sins are forgiven but the book of Hebrews said' "If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left." So what is obeying His commandments helping?

Paul said "What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase?" Grace is not a license to sin.

Paul said "What shall we say, then? Is the law sinful? Certainly not! Nevertheless, I would not have known what sin was had it not been for the law." And he didn't mix the law with grace.

It's either every word coming from the mouth of God or it's all wrong.

The Word of God came to show man how one could live according to His Word. Man does not necessarily have to sin to live.
The Word of God came to show man how one could live a sinless life by the Spirit.
Why does man trust in his weakness and say one could not live by not sinning?

By the law is the knowledge of sin and no man shall be justified by the deeds of the law in GODs sight.

man does not sin in the spirit,it is GODs workmanship and whoever is born of GOD does not sin.
Where were we born of GOD?


rebirth was in the spirit not the flesh ,but we still need to renew our minds.

 

[chubbena]

It would be faithless if there were a command attached, otherwise it would simply be a matter of being stomachless.

It would be lawlessness if there were no command to obey.
This is to fulfill what the Prophet said: I wrote for them the many things of my law, but they regarded them as something foreign.
The Psalmist said it right: What right have you to recite my laws or take my covenant on your lips? You hate my instruction and cast my words behind you.