We establish the Law...but how?

[seed_time_harvest]

One has to know the law before trying to establishing it by faith. If ya don't know how, then what is evident? You have not taken the time to read the law because of doctrinal beliefs, or you just don't have the faith to comprehend the Spiritual aspects of it. Oh ya, desire is necessary also.

I was wondering if you could expound on this.

if one doesn't know how

shouldn't it be natural coming from the spirit in truth.

 

[chubbena]

And we all see what happened to the Israelites whe the law in stone was added...

Romans 5:20 Now the law came in so that the transgression may increase, but where sin increased, grace multiplied all the more,

Galatians 3:19 Why then was the law given? It was added because of transgressions, until the arrival of the descendant to whom the promise had been made. It was administered through angels by an intermediary.

While it's true the law should no longer be the guardian when one is justified by faith, it witnesses whether one actually lives by that faith in which he is a new creation in Christ, whether he is governed by the Holy Spirit and whether he is His son.

Paul said: "It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery." Was he speaking against the law?

He said earlier: "Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard? Are you so foolish? After beginning by means of the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh?

He was speaking to believers who have received the Spirit and were supposed to be governed by the Spirit and should be free from continual sinning. But he said to them: "So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever you want. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law."

Instead of governing by the Spirit, they let their flesh governs and thus went under the law because they continued to sin and hoped that work i.e. circumcision would change things around.

 

[royalscot]

This post is a good example of not paying attention to every detail recorded in the bible. At Caesarea there was a man named Cornelius, a centurion in what was known as the Italian Regiment. He and all his family were devout and God-fearing; he gave generously to those in need and prayed to God regularly...and he received a vision from God.
Proverbs 15:29 The LORD is far from the wicked, but he hears the prayer of the righteous.
God heard his prayer.

history still proves your wrong , 70 ad. god also talked to many people of the old testament, yet death was conquered, in and around 0- 70 ad. so would still prove your still under a new covenant.
your insult is only as good as your reading skills, who told him about jesus. ( Cornelius,)
helps if you can read,
how did you get righteous, through law.
what law do you need to believe like abraham.
15 To give a human example, brothers: even with a man-made covenant, no one annuls it or adds to it once it has been ratified.16 Now the promises were made to Abraham and to his offspring. It does not say, "And to offsprings," referring to many, but referring to one, "And to your offspring," who is Christ.17 This is what I mean: the law, which came 430 years afterward, does not annul a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to make the promise void.18 For if the inheritance comes by the law, it no longer comes by promise; but God gave it to Abraham by a promise.



acts 10
And now send men to Joppa and bring one Simon who is called Peter.6 He is lodging with one Simon, a tanner, whose house is by the sea."7 When the angel who spoke to him had departed, he called two of his servants and a devout soldier from among those who attended him,8 and having related everything to them, he sent them to Joppa.
relay, you have yet to prove how cn you follow a law that dont save you.
thats why believing in god , cant save you, he told him to send for peter. or did you miss this again.
what did peter tell him about.

who told cornelius about jesus, and did he repent.

who do you need to believe in ,to get introduced to god and the holy spirit.
6 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son,(would that be jesus) that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

 

[royalscot]

This post is pure gold. Thank you brother for it.

prove you were given the full law, so why are you looking at a law that never saved you.

he Righteous Shall Live by Faith
10 For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, "Cursed be everyone who does not abide by all things written in the Book of the Law, and do them."11 Now it is evident that no one is justified before God by the law, for "The righteous shall live by faith."12 But the law is not of faith, rather "The one who does them shall live by them."13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us---for it is written, "Cursed is everyone who is hanged on a tree"---14 so that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promised Spirit through faith.


or wold that be the promise

29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise.


what law.
The Law and the Promise
15 To give a human example, brothers: even with a man-made covenant, no one annuls it or adds to it once it has been ratified.16 Now the promises were made to Abraham and to his offspring. It does not say, "And to offsprings," referring to many, but referring to one, "And to your offspring," who is Christ.17 This is what I mean: the law, which came 430 years afterward, does not annul a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to make the promise void.18 For if the inheritance comes by the law, it no longer comes by promise; but God gave it to Abraham by a promise.

 

[royalscot]

The Israelites were saved from slavery in Egypt but I do not want you to be ignorant of the fact that they were all under the cloud and that they all passed through the sea. The were all baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea. They all ate the same spiritual food and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ. Nevertheless, God was not pleased with most of them; their bodies were scattered over the desert.
Again, the prophet said: I wrote for them the many things of my law, but they regarded them as something foreign.

God said in Genesis 26:5 Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

was this before 70 ad or after.
Genesis 22 what came first, gen 22 or gen 26, and when was the promise given.

15 And the angel of the LORD called to Abraham a second time from heaven16 and said, "By myself I have sworn, declares the LORD, because you have done this and have not withheld your son, your only son,17 I will surely bless you, and I will surely multiply your offspring as the stars of heaven and as the sand that is on the seashore. And your offspring shall possess the gate of his enemies,18 and in your offspring shall all the nations of the earth be blessed, because you have obeyed my voice."

 

[royalscot]

While it's true the law should no longer be the guardian when one is justified by faith, it witnesses whether one actually lives by that faith in which he is a new creation in Christ, whether he is governed by the Holy Spirit and whether he is His son.

Paul said: "It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery." Was he speaking against the law?

He said earlier: "Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard? Are you so foolish? After beginning by means of the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh?

He was speaking to believers who have received the Spirit and were supposed to be governed by the Spirit and should be free from continual sinning. But he said to them: "So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever you want. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law."

Instead of governing by the Spirit, they let their flesh governs and thus went under the law because they continued to sin and hoped that work i.e. circumcision would change things around.

make up your mind, if led by the spirit, then there is no law. (your quote)

so 70 ad is fact, how ,can you follow the full law of moses without a temple of stone.

when did it tell cornelius to repent, when he believed like abraham.

and how do you get the spirit. by believing in who.

16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.1
29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise.

 

[Karraster]

prove you were given the full law, so why are you looking at a law that never saved you.

All i can say is, because He has made me love it.

The Word: Let all the earth fear the Lord [revere and worship Him]; let all the inhabitants of the world stand in awe of Him. For He spoke, and it was done; He commanded, and it stood fast. The Lord brings the counsel of the nations to nought; He makes the thoughts and plans of the peoples of no effect. The counsel of the Lord stands forever, the thoughts of His heart through all generations. Blessed (happy, fortunate, to be envied) is the nation whose God is the Lord, the people He has chosen as His heritage. The Lord looks from heaven, He beholds all the sons of men; From His dwelling place He looks [intently] upon all the inhabitants of the earth - He Who fashions the hearts of them all, Who considers all their doings. No king is saved by the great size and power of his army; a mighty man is not delivered by [his] much strength. A horse is devoid of value for victory; neither does he deliver any by his great power. Behold, the Lord’s eye is upon those who fear Him [who revere and worship Him with awe], who wait for Him and hope in His mercy and loving-kindness, to deliver them from death… (Psalm 33: 8-19 Amplified)

 

[royalscot]

history still proves your wrong , 70 ad. god also talked to many people of the old testament, yet death was conquered, in and around 0- 70 ad. so would still prove your still under a new covenant.
your insult is only as good as your reading skills, who told him about jesus. ( Cornelius,)
helps if you can read,
how did you get righteous, through law.
what law do you need to believe like abraham.
15 To give a human example, brothers: even with a man-made covenant, no one annuls it or adds to it once it has been ratified.16 Now the promises were made to Abraham and to his offspring. It does not say, "And to offsprings," referring to many, but referring to one, "And to your offspring," who is Christ.17 This is what I mean: the law, which came 430 years afterward, does not annul a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to make the promise void.18 For if the inheritance comes by the law, it no longer comes by promise; but God gave it to Abraham by a promise.



acts 10
And now send men to Joppa and bring one Simon who is called Peter.6 He is lodging with one Simon, a tanner, whose house is by the sea."7 When the angel who spoke to him had departed, he called two of his servants and a devout soldier from among those who attended him,8 and having related everything to them, he sent them to Joppa.
relay, you have yet to prove how cn you follow a law that dont save you.
thats why believing in god , cant save you, he told him to send for peter. or did you miss this again.
what did peter tell him about.

who told cornelius about jesus, and did he repent.

who do you need to believe in ,to get introduced to god and the holy spirit.
6 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son,(would that be jesus) that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

thats why believing in god , cant save you, he told him to send for peter. or did you miss this again. (in a new covenant)

this should read in the new covenant. at the end of this sentance, etc

 

[royalscot]

All i can say is, because He has made me love it.

The Word: Let all the earth fear the Lord [revere and worship Him]; let all the inhabitants of the world stand in awe of Him. For He spoke, and it was done; He commanded, and it stood fast. The Lord brings the counsel of the nations to nought; He makes the thoughts and plans of the peoples of no effect. The counsel of the Lord stands forever, the thoughts of His heart through all generations. Blessed (happy, fortunate, to be envied) is the nation whose God is the Lord, the people He has chosen as His heritage. The Lord looks from heaven, He beholds all the sons of men; From His dwelling place He looks [intently] upon all the inhabitants of the earth - He Who fashions the hearts of them all, Who considers all their doings. No king is saved by the great size and power of his army; a mighty man is not delivered by [his] much strength. A horse is devoid of value for victory; neither does he deliver any by his great power. Behold, the Lord’s eye is upon those who fear Him [who revere and worship Him with awe], who wait for Him and hope in His mercy and loving-kindness, to deliver them from death… (Psalm 33: 8-19 Amplified)

you can fear him ,if you want, i am a son of god ,and heirs according to promise.
1 There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.2 For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death.Romans 8

i was just reading it, because i had time to kill (the bible) lol

john 10 v1
"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who does not enter the sheepfold by the door but climbs in by another way, that man is a thief and a robber.

still dose not save you. law, thats why he sent jesus.
21 I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose.

cor2 v8 For we cannot do anything against the truth, but only for the truth

 

[crossnote]

While it's true the law should no longer be the guardian when one is justified by faith, it witnesses whether one actually lives by that faith in which he is a new creation in Christ, whether he is governed by the Holy Spirit and whether he is His son.

Paul said: "It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery." Was he speaking against the law?

He said earlier: "Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard? Are you so foolish? After beginning by means of the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh?

He was speaking to believers who have received the Spirit and were supposed to be governed by the Spirit and should be free from continual sinning. But he said to them: "So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever you want. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law."

Instead of governing by the Spirit, they let their flesh governs and thus went under the law because they continued to sin and hoped that work i.e. circumcision would change things around.

My verses I posted only declared that the law given stirred up transgressiion.
But I'm not sure why you seem to keep looking for an antinonian confession from me. God''s nature as reflected in the moral law is written on the Christian's heart and yes it would be sin to go against that ingrafted nature...for whatever is not of faith is sin.

 

[chubbena]

history still proves your wrong , 70 ad. god also talked to many people of the old testament, yet death was conquered, in and around 0- 70 ad. so would still prove your still under a new covenant.
your insult is only as good as your reading skills, who told him about jesus. ( Cornelius,)
helps if you can read,
how did you get righteous, through law.
what law do you need to believe like abraham.
15 To give a human example, brothers: even with a man-made covenant, no one annuls it or adds to it once it has been ratified.16 Now the promises were made to Abraham and to his offspring. It does not say, "And to offsprings," referring to many, but referring to one, "And to your offspring," who is Christ.17 This is what I mean: the law, which came 430 years afterward, does not annul a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to make the promise void.18 For if the inheritance comes by the law, it no longer comes by promise; but God gave it to Abraham by a promise.



acts 10
And now send men to Joppa and bring one Simon who is called Peter.6 He is lodging with one Simon, a tanner, whose house is by the sea."7 When the angel who spoke to him had departed, he called two of his servants and a devout soldier from among those who attended him,8 and having related everything to them, he sent them to Joppa.
relay, you have yet to prove how cn you follow a law that dont save you.
thats why believing in god , cant save you, he told him to send for peter. or did you miss this again.
what did peter tell him about.

who told cornelius about jesus, and did he repent.

who do you need to believe in ,to get introduced to god and the holy spirit.
6 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son,(would that be jesus) that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

I'm sorry if asking for attention to every detail in the bible is an insult.
My post was responding to a question whether Cornelius ever repented when he received Christ.
He was a righteous and God-fearing man like quite a few in the OT.
MY post was not to argue whether one needs Christ - it's never a question on this thread, or any thread on CC for that matter.
If only one pays attention.

 

[chubbena]

was this before 70 ad or after.
Genesis 22 what came first, gen 22 or gen 26, and when was the promise given.

15 And the angel of the LORD called to Abraham a second time from heaven16 and said, "By myself I have sworn, declares the LORD, because you have done this and have not withheld your son, your only son,17 I will surely bless you, and I will surely multiply your offspring as the stars of heaven and as the sand that is on the seashore. And your offspring shall possess the gate of his enemies,18 and in your offspring shall all the nations of the earth be blessed, because you have obeyed my voice."

I hope this post is not to imply today's Christians may ignore any scripture written before 70 AD i.e. including Paul's writing to the Corinthians.

 

[chubbena]

make up your mind, if led by the spirit, then there is no law. (your quote)

so 70 ad is fact, how ,can you follow the full law of moses without a temple of stone.

when did it tell cornelius to repent, when he believed like abraham.

and how do you get the spirit. by believing in who.

16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.1
29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise.

One should pay more attention to the scripture.
Paul said: "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law."
The law is not against one who is led by the Holy Spirit but rather those who are not.

The law is not just about animal sacrifices. Even the saints in the OT understand that.

Samuel said: "To obey is better than sacrifice, and to heed is better than the fat of rams."

The Psalmist said: "You do not delight in sacrifice, or I would bring it; you do not take pleasure in burnt offerings."
In fact, the psalmist knew one has to be governed by the Holy Spirit. He said: "Create in me a pure heart, O God, and renew a steadfast spirit within me. Do not cast me from your presence or take your Holy Spirit from me. Restore to me the joy of your salvation and grant me a willing spirit, to sustain me."
Not too many in OT understand God and His Word, not unlike today.

Likewise, not many understand what the gospel is. The Lord said: "This is what is written: The Messiah will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, and repentance for the forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem."
Just because Acts didn't record Cornelius' repentance does not mean he didn't. The bible does not record the sun came up on the day he received the vision does not mean the sun did not come up on that day.

Again, if one is in Christ who said man lives by every word coming from the mouth of God would he reject the Word of God?

 

[chubbena]

My verses I posted only declared that the law given stirred up transgressiion.
But I'm not sure why you seem to keep looking for an antinonian confession from me. God''s nature as reflected in the moral law is written on the Christian's heart and yes it would be sin to go against that ingrafted nature...for whatever is not of faith is sin.

But you quoted from scripture that the law was added because of transgression.
The scripture does not say the law stirred up transgression. Rather, an unregenerate heart without the law in it would be aroused by the law into transgression.

I'm here to discuss Bible, not to call others names so don't take it the wrong way.

Again the bible says: where there is no law there is no transgression.
How does one know he has the moral law in his heart but not some man made tradition or laws?
I would cross check with the scripture spoken by the Word of God and recorded by Moses and the Prophets.
Some would just believe without any reference and trust what he has is indeed from the Holy Spirit although both the Lord and Paul have forewarned that there will be deceiving spirits at the end of time.
To each his own.

 

[Elin]

Again, if one is in Christ who said man lives by every word coming from the mouth of God would he reject the Word of God?

Keeping in mind that includes the words spoken by the Son in these last days (Heb 1:1-2) through the NT writers, where it is revealed that

the law of Moses has been set aside because it was weak and useless to attain righteousness
(Heb 7:18-10),
and in the new covenant is replaced with the law of Christ (Mt 22:37-39) which is the law of God
(1Co 9:20-21),
obedience to which fulfills all the Law and the Prophets (Mt 22:40; Ro 13:8-10),
and without the myriads of regulations because
in the new covenant the law of Christ is written on our minds and hearts (Jer 31:31)
by the indwelling Holy Spirit who gives us to know what is loving and what is not loving without a written code.

The old covenant has been made obsolete and passed away completely with the destruction of Jerusalem.

We have a new covenant wine skin for the new wine of the gospel of grace.

"For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ." (Jn 1:17)

 

[crossnote]

But you quoted from scripture that the law was added because of transgression.
The scripture does not say the law stirred up transgression. Rather, an unregenerate heart without the law in it would be aroused by the law into transgression.

I'm here to discuss Bible, not to call others names so don't take it the wrong way.

Again the bible says: where there is no law there is no transgression.
How does one know he has the moral law in his heart but not some man made tradition or laws?
I would cross check with the scripture spoken by the Word of God and recorded by Moses and the Prophets.
Some would just believe without any reference and trust what he has is indeed from the Holy Spirit although both the Lord and Paul have forewarned that there will be deceiving spirits at the end of time.
To each his own.

When one is born again they know beyond a shadow of a doubt.

2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Romans 5:5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

 

[Elin]

No one can see the truth by cherry picking scripture. To know how God wants us to understand law we must accept every scripture about law, those telling us what it is for and those telling us what it is not for. Many here are quoting scripture that is not leading to truth at all even though the scripture they quote is truth because it is cherry picking scripture.

What I am sure that the Lord finds of a sinful nature are those who say that some scripture is not for us! "only for Israel". To deny the word of the Lord is about as bad as it can get. Like saying that the God who gave the 613 laws was a terrible God who wanted to kill and stone people, only. It is reading scripture as a devil would, not for the spirit and truth of the Lord.

This is not RedTent.

Where is Red Tent? Is she okay?

 

[chubbena]

Keeping in mind that includes the words spoken by the Son in these last days (Heb 1:1-2) through the NT writers, where it is revealed that

the law of Moses has been set aside because it was weak and useless to attain righteousness
(Heb 7:18-10),

In the very last book of the bible He spoke through John
Revelation 12:17 Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to wage war against the rest of her offspring—those who keep God’s commands and hold fast their testimony about Jesus.
Revelation 14:12 This calls for patient endurance on the part of the people of God who keep his commands and remain faithful to Jesus.

and in the new covenant is replaced with the law of Christ (Mt 22:37-39)

Again, only when one ignores the question the Lord was answering to Matthew 22:36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”

which is the law of God
(1Co 9:20-21),

Do the verses quoted here suggested that the law spoken by the Word of God written down by Moses is no more?

obedience to which fulfills all the Law and the Prophets (Mt 22:40; Ro 13:8-10),

Again,
“Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?” Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’[SUP] [/SUP]This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[SUP] [/SUP]All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

Do these verses suggest that the law spoken by the Word of God written by Moses is no more?

and without the myriads of regulations because
in the new covenant the law of Christ is written on our minds and hearts (Jer 31:31)

If one reads the whole book including Jeremiah 11:1-8 This is the word that came to Jeremiah from the Lord: “Listen to the terms of this covenant and tell them to the people of Judah and to those who live in Jerusalem. Tell them that this is what the Lord, the God of Israel, says: ‘Cursed is the one who does not obey the terms of this covenant— the terms I commanded your ancestors when I brought them out of Egypt, out of the iron-smelting furnace.’ I said, ‘Obey me and do everything I command you, and you will be my people, and I will be your God. Then I will fulfill the oath I swore to your ancestors, to give them a land flowing with milk and honey’—the land you possess today.”I answered, “Amen, Lord.”
The Lord said to me, “Proclaim all these words in the towns of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem: ‘Listen to the terms of this covenant and follow them. From the time I brought your ancestors up from Egypt until today, I warned them again and again, saying, “Obey me.”But they did not listen or pay attention; instead, they followed the stubbornness of their evil hearts. So I brought on them all the curses of the covenant I had commanded them to follow but that they did not keep.’”

by the indwelling Holy Spirit who gives us to know what is loving and what is not loving without a written code.

Would one with the Holy Spirit contradict with what Paul said: All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness.

The old covenant has been made obsolete and passed away completely with the destruction of Jerusalem.

We have a new covenant wine skin for the new wine of the gospel of grace.

Indeed. But does it mean the law is made obsolete? The Psalmist said: "All your words are true; all your righteous laws are eternal." Is there anything unrighteous in His law that has become obsolete?

"For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ." (Jn 1:17)

So where is the argument of either law or grace come from?

 

[chubbena]

When one is born again they know beyond a shadow of a doubt.

2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Romans 5:5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

When one is born again they know beyond a shadow of doubt to get rid of the Word of God written previously? Again Paul said: "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness."
Again the Bereans examine the scripture to see if what Paul said was true.
Again Paul believed everything that is in accordance with the Law and that is written in the Prophets instead of believing the OT only when it's in accordance with the NT.

 

[crossnote]

When one is born again they know beyond a shadow of doubt to get rid of the Word of God written previously? Again Paul said: "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness."
Again the Bereans examine the scripture to see if what Paul said was true.
Again Paul believed everything that is in accordance with the Law and that is written in the Prophets instead of believing the OT only when it's in accordance with the NT.

You are making generalities. Can you be more specific?