Scriptures Cannot be alone... Scripture is clear

[ChristIsGod]

In the New Testament, we have the faith our Lord Jesus and His apostles established, the whole gospel which is sufficient to save and to sanctify a believer, the entire New Testament even more than is needed (people in earlier times didn't even have whole Bibles). It has never seemed even wise to stray from reliable scripture to, what, an adulterated gospel, of the construction of corrupt "traditions" of men, added later? Who would even claim the scripture left by our Lord and His apostles is not sufficient to save, when the apostles established many churches?

Scripture plus cult inventions? No thanks!

Actually, crossnote, who this reply was to, is correct in regards to the topic.

Just because some have corrupted His Words and call themselves Messianic Jews or the HRM, etc., does not counter that the men that wrote both Testaments were Jews, except Luke.

Regarding the Bereans, that were the topic on page 1 - Which Scriptures were the Bereans searching to see if what Paul was preaching was true?

In Romans 11, who are the wild olive tree branches that are grafted into the "natural, good and their own olive tree" that we are not to "boast against, lest we too be cut off", as they are being grafted back into their own olive tree, when/by believing in their Messiah? Rom 11:16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.


Don't be turned off to the Words that He spoke, just because some have "wrested the Scriptures" written by Paul especially.

Jesus said to the woman, John 4:22 " Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews."
Who are the 'we' in what Jesus said?

Believing Gentiles are the children of Abraham. There "is no difference" between unbelieving Jews & Gentiles, according to Paul - as both need to be grafted in, or grafted in again; as it is written.
Neither better nor different than the other, once they are grafted in.
One Body.

 

[Dogknox]

Jackson123 Good to meet you...

I reply to your post First... There are many Protestants that killed >Murdered Catholics<!!
Second... Hitler killed many Catholics!

The Catholic Church protected Jews during the war!

You can see it it is easy to point fingers!!!!!

The point still is the same.... Jesus established ONE CHURCH and it is the Holy Catholic Church; NONE OTHER!
Scriptures tell you so!

LOOK...
Matthew 28:19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

Jackson123 Baptism makes DISCIPLES the Catholic Church was commissioned by "GOD" to baptize ALL NATIONS, to make for God' his children by Baptism! NO OTHER CHURCH was around! No other church was commissioned!


Jackson123 Jesus is ALWAYS WITH his Church to the end of time!!! ALWAYS WITH means; Jesus is NOT with your church!
Your church rejects the ONLY Church Jesus is always with!!!

Always with means... You are wasting your time trying to RESTORE Jesus body back to him!! Jackson123 Jesus did not abandon his Church (scriptures tell you so) he does not need his body restored!!! Jesus is ALWAYS WITH his Church to the end of time!!!

 

[Dogknox]

Second Pope is Linus ad 67-76

John is still alive that years and He is apostle. If require apostle to be Pope, why not apostle John, He is more apostle than Linus, and more senior and more close to the Lord.

Bishopsof Rome: Popes
First and Second Centuries
St.Peter****(42 - 67)
St.Linus****(67 - 79)
St.Anacletus****(79 - 92)
St.Clement I****(92 - 101)
St.Evaristus****(101 - 105)
St.Alexander I****(105 - 115)
St.Sixtus I****(115 - 125)
St.Telesphorus****(125 - 136)
St.Hyginis****(136 - 140)
St.Pius I****(140 - 155)
St.Anicetus****(155 - 166)
St.Soter****(166 - 175)
St.Eleutherius****(175 - 189)
St.Victor I****(189 - 199)
St.Zephyrinus****(199 - 217)
Thirdand Fourth Centuries
St.Callistus I****(217 - 222)
St.Urban I****(222 - 230)
St.Pontian****(230 - 235)
St.Anterius****(235 - 236)
St.Fabian****(236 - 250)
St.Cornelius****(251 - 253)
St.Lucius I****(253 - 254)
St.Stephen I****(254 - 257)
St.Sixtus II****(257 - 258)
St.Dionysius****(259 - 268)
St.Felix I****(269 - 274)
St.Eutychian****(275 - 283)
St.Gaius/Caius****(283 - 296)
St.Marcellinus****(296 - 304)
St.Marcellus I****(308 - 309)
St.Eusebius****(309)
St.Miltiades****(311 - 314)
St. Sylvester I****(314 - 335)
St. Mark****(336)
St. JuliusI****(337 - 352)
Liberius****(352 - 366)
St. Damasus I****(366- 384)
St. Siricius****(384 - 399)
St. Anastasius I****(399 -401)
Fifthand Sixth Centuries
St.Innocent I****(401 - 417)
St. Zosimus****(417 - 418)
St.Bonaface I****(418 - 422)

etc
etc
etc
266 Popes today; Pope Frances .. An unbroken chain of Apostolic TRADITION all the way back to Peter!!!!

 

[SolidGround]

I don't see a huge biblical problem with the office of "Pope" as a position or organizational leadership role, but there are some serious issues in the doctrines and traditions that surround and uphold that office.

As Believers, we are all intercessors for the world and our fellow Believers, with Christ as the chief intercessor.
We are all priests of the Most High, with Christ as our High Priest.

Leadership, and respect for leadership, is commanded within Scripture,
but when tradition turns the leadership into more than mere mortals who are serving others,
then there is a huge issue.

Doctrines of infallibility of any person,
or any spiritual inequality of priest and laity,
or any worship (veneration, or whatever you want to call it) of anyone but God,
these are against the Word!
It is not that these can be simply added to onto the sound doctrines of the Word,
because they directly contradict the Word.

Sola Scriptura vs Prima Scriptura has nothing to do with it.

There are many Catholics who do not worship mortals (dead or alive), and who do not hold to the infallibility of the Pope, and do not suffer themselves to require the intercession of another mortal for the forgiveness of their sins.
To these Catholics, I call them brothers and sisters. To those who hold to these traditions, I would ask them to read the words of Peter in his letters to the Church, and read the pastoral epistles.

 

[SolidGround]

Here is an example of a doctrine that is not found in the Word directly,
but does not contradict the Word, and in fact clarifies the Word:
The Trinity.

There are several others, like the doctrines of Adam's headship,
and traditions of national loyalties, and social justice, and missional charity.
These are not found directly in Scripture, but pass the test because they do not contradict it, but are supported by Biblical principles.

Private confession is against the Word, as it calls for public confession.
Penance is against the Word, as is says we are forgiven by Grace, not our works.
The need for a mortal priest to intercede for us for forgiveness of our sins is against the Word, as we pray directly to the Father, as we are co-heirs with His Son.

The test is not about origin, but about contradiction. The Word does not contradict itself, and neither should our doctrines.

 

[Jason0047]

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/100040-biblical-defense-sola-scriptura.html

 

[Dogknox]

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/100040-biblical-defense-sola-scriptura.html

Jesus established his CHURCH to bring salvation to the world!
There was NO bibles (of any number) until the printing press!
Bibles were costly works of art, only the very rich could own a bible!
Fact is: There was NO bible until 400 A.D.

Most people could NOT read until the eighteenth century!!!

If scriptures are the ONLY way to salvation then few would ever have been saved!!!

Jason0047 Church TAUGHT!!
[h=1]Ephesians 3:9
and to make plain to everyone the administration of this mystery, which for ages past was kept hidden in God, who created all things. 10 His intent was that now, through the church, the manifold wisdom of God should be made known to the rulers and authorities in the heavenly realms[/h]
Church has the TRUTH!
1 Timothy 3:15
if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God’s household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.


Jason0047 The man made TRADITION of "Scriptures ALONE" is the root cause for the thousands and thousands of fragmented, divided churches of men!

Jason0047 Jesus established only one Church he has never abandoned his Church he established two thousand years ago!

Matthew 28:20
teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you. And lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world.”

 

[ThomistColin]

I don't see a huge biblical problem with the office of "Pope" as a position or organizational leadership role, but there are some serious issues in the doctrines and traditions that surround and uphold that office.

As Believers, we are all intercessors for the world and our fellow Believers, with Christ as the chief intercessor.
We are all priests of the Most High, with Christ as our High Priest.

Leadership, and respect for leadership, is commanded within Scripture,
but when tradition turns the leadership into more than mere mortals who are serving others,
then there is a huge issue.

Doctrines of infallibility of any person,
or any spiritual inequality of priest and laity,
or any worship (veneration, or whatever you want to call it) of anyone but God,
these are against the Word!
It is not that these can be simply added to onto the sound doctrines of the Word,
because they directly contradict the Word.

Sola Scriptura vs Prima Scriptura has nothing to do with it.

There are many Catholics who do not worship mortals (dead or alive), and who do not hold to the infallibility of the Pope, and do not suffer themselves to require the intercession of another mortal for the forgiveness of their sins.
To these Catholics, I call them brothers and sisters. To those who hold to these traditions, I would ask them to read the words of Peter in his letters to the Church, and read the pastoral epistles.

A but you believe that on at least TWO occasions Peter wrote infallibly. When he wrote his two epistles. You see, we do not believe the Pope to be infallible in all things, or even most things, but in only one thing: When he declares a moral truth to the Church due to a problem or discussion of the time. That's it. And HE is not the one giving the moral truth, but declaring the moral truth. It is the Holy Spirit that gives the truth. It is God who protects these moral truths and gives them. Therefore, we do not believe the Pope perfect or infallible in word or action, except when he is prompted by the Holy Spirit to proclaim a moral truth. Nothing else, except for these few, very few, proclamations are held as infallible.

 

[Dogknox]

SolidGround Your words from post #84 There are many Catholics who do not worship mortals (dead or alive), and who do not hold to the infallibility of the Pope, and do not suffer themselves to require the intercession of another mortal for the forgiveness of their sins.
To these Catholics, I call them brothers and sisters. To those who hold to these traditions, I would ask them to read the words of Peter in his letters to the Church, and read the pastoral epistles

I Reply: Jesus told you "IN SCRIPTURE" "Listen to the Church, if you reject his Church then you are to be treated as Pagan"!
Pagan: A person NOT in the body of God!
Matthew 18:17
If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector.

SolidGround You reject Jesus by rejecting his words!!!

Jesus tells you "IN SCRIPTURE" "The CHURCH is the Pillar and foundation of truth!"
He said "His Body is the Church"!
SolidGround You have separated yourself from Jesus! You reject TRUTH for the LIES of men and their teaching of "Scripture ALONE" and "Man does Not need Church"!!

You say the Catholic Church fell away??
Matthew 28:20
teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you. And lo,I am with you always, even unto the end of the world.”

To say the Catholic Church fell away is to say "God LIED"! God' words... I am with you always,
Jesus established ONE CHURCH and it was NOT your church!

Your words... You reject: Doctrines of infallibility of any person,

SolidGround Scriptures are clear... Jesus sent The Holy Spirit to his CHURCH: The Holy Spirit is GUIDING the Church Jesus established FOREVER!!!!!!
John 14:16
And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever—

You are doing the work of Satan by saying "the Holy Spirit is guiding the Body of Jesus into error" !

SolidGround THINK: If the Catholic Church fell into error then God errs!

 

[Jackson123]

Jackson123 Good to meet you...


Always with means... You are wasting your time trying to RESTORE Jesus body back to him!! Jackson123 Jesus did not abandon his Church (scriptures tell you so) he does not need his body restored!!! Jesus is ALWAYS WITH his Church to the end of time!!!

1. There is protestant kill catholic. but I am not support that at all.
2. According to Alberto Rivera and Eric Jon Phelps, Hitler kill about 2500 priest from North German, It is order from vatican because North German catholic refuse to accept the doctrine of infallibility of Pope.
Look this picture:

1. Images for Image Hitler with catholic high officerReport images
   
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   More images for Image Hitler with catholic high officer
2. 3. you said Jesus only make one church. it must lovely church, Why persecute and kill countless human?
3. 4. You believe only Catholic go to heaven? It confusing me brother while Catholic said Muslim is in the plan of salvation. Is Jesus also make Muslim ?

16. Finally, those who have not yet received the Gospel are related to the People of God in various ways.[18] There is, first, that people to which the covenants and promises were made, and from which Christ was born according to the flesh (cf. Rom. 9:4-5): in view of the divine choice, they are a people most dear for the sake of the fathers, for the gifts of God are without repentance (cf. Rom. 11:29-29). But the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Moslems: these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day.
5 You said Jesus is not with my church. Brother DogKnox, Are you believe Jesus with Muslim mosque?

 

[Dogknox]

Actually the sad thing in all this is your argument where the conclusion doesn't even follow the premise.

Not to mention the sad way you highlight everyone's chatname in blue. If you respond to my post, would you please highlight my name in pink?

I don't like the colour blue too much.

Anyway.

So to point out the flaws in your reasons -

The Scripture verse Acts 17:11, actually praises the Bereans as noble because they did not rely solely on Paul's teachings but went home and verified what he said.


Meaning - they did not trust man.

If you read Psalm 118:8, the center verse of the Bible , it says

It is better to take refuge in the LORD than to trust in man.

Honestly, how did church even come into the argument? Where did Paul and his teaching equate "church"?

Your premise should have been " Scripture alone is not enough, we need the CATHOLIC church" but you don't really have any solid reasoning to back this up.

Hence you sneak in a little syllogical fallacy and get everybody worked up.


However thousands of years of false teachings and corruption in the churches (and even modern churches now) has shown us more than ever how we need to be like the Bereans.

Read The Word more and trust God before man.

I reply: Jesus shows you who does NOT trust men! In the same paragraph two verses on #13.

13 But when the Jews in Thessalonica learned that Paul was preaching the word of God at Berea, some of them went there too, agitating the crowds and stirring them up.

Rachel20 These people in Thessalonica rejected the TEACHING of Church outright!

Those in Berea Listened to Paul eagerly AND the scriptures! They trusted Paul it was the people inThessalonica that did not trust him! These in Thessalonica were LESS Noble because they trusted the scriptures ALONE!!!
11 Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.

Bereans were MORE NOBLE!
The Thessalonicas LESS NOBLE!
The Man of today who rejects Church for scriptures ALONE NOT NOBLE!

Rachel20 Fact is, you reject Jesus by NOT accepting his words; You condemn yourself!
John 12:48
There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; the very words I have spoken will condemn them at the last day.

You are forced to reject John 12:48 (above) telling you about the error of rejecting scriptures!

 

[Jackson123]

Bishopsof Rome: Popes
First and Second Centuries
St.Peter****(42 - 67)
St.Linus****(67 - 79)
St.Anacletus****(79 - 92)
St.Clement I****(92 - 101)
St.Evaristus****(101 - 105)
St.Alexander I****(105 - 115)
St.Sixtus I****(115 - 125)
St.Telesphorus****(125 - 136)
St.Hyginis****(136 - 140)
St.Pius I****(140 - 155)
St.Anicetus****(155 - 166)
St.Soter****(166 - 175)
St.Eleutherius****(175 - 189)
St.Victor I****(189 - 199)
St.Zephyrinus****(199 - 217)
Thirdand Fourth Centuries
St.Callistus I****(217 - 222)
St.Urban I****(222 - 230)
St.Pontian****(230 - 235)
St.Anterius****(235 - 236)
St.Fabian****(236 - 250)
St.Cornelius****(251 - 253)
St.Lucius I****(253 - 254)
St.Stephen I****(254 - 257)
St.Sixtus II****(257 - 258)
St.Dionysius****(259 - 268)
St.Felix I****(269 - 274)
St.Eutychian****(275 - 283)
St.Gaius/Caius****(283 - 296)
St.Marcellinus****(296 - 304)
St.Marcellus I****(308 - 309)
St.Eusebius****(309)
St.Miltiades****(311 - 314)
St. Sylvester I****(314 - 335)
St. Mark****(336)
St. JuliusI****(337 - 352)
Liberius****(352 - 366)
St. Damasus I****(366- 384)
St. Siricius****(384 - 399)
St. Anastasius I****(399 -401)
Fifthand Sixth Centuries
St.Innocent I****(401 - 417)
St. Zosimus****(417 - 418)
St.Bonaface I****(418 - 422)

etc
etc
etc
266 Popes today; Pope Frances .. An unbroken chain of Apostolic TRADITION all the way back to Peter!!!!

You mention Peter as bishop of Rome from 42 ad.

when you read act 28 about the arrival of Paul in 60 ad to Rome, where Jew listen to him about Christianity from morning til evening. Do you believe Peter there for 18 years and Jew still not sure about what is christianity?

Your church deceived you brother, You better cross her teaching with the bible.

 

[kepha]

I don't see a huge biblical problem with the office of "Pope" as a position or organizational leadership role, but there are some serious issues in the doctrines and traditions that surround and uphold that office.

Do you means serious issues like "Our Rock (kepha) is bigger than your rock (evna)"?, or "Peter didn't really lose his keys"? or "He who hears YOU (Apostles and their successors, not each believer) hears Me."

As Believers, we are all intercessors for the world and our fellow Believers, with Christ as the chief intercessor
We are all priests of the Most High, with Christ as our High Priest.

the three-fold model of the priesthood which was in use at the time of Aaron was carried over into the New Testament and thus we find there also a high priest, ministerial priests, and universal priests. In the New Testament age the high priest is Jesus Christ (Heb. 3:1), the ministerial priests are Christ’s ordained ministers of the gospel (Rom. 15:16), and the universal priests are the entire Christian people (1 Peter. 2:5, 9).
So the Bible clearly states that all Christians are priests (1 Peter 2:5, 9), as the Catholic Church clearly teaches for all who bother to read its teachings. read more

Leadership, and respect for leadership, is commanded within Scripture,

Indeed.

Hebrews 13:17 "Obey your leaders and submit to their authority. They keep watch over you as men who must give an account. Obey them so that their work will be a joy, not a burden, for that would be of no advantage to you."

SolidGround, what is the expiration date of this verse???

but when tradition turns the leadership into more than mere mortals who are serving others,
then there is a huge issue.

The dominating dictator image projected by The Christian Taliban?

Doctrines of infallibility of any person,

That's totally warped. Surely you don't mean The Doctrine of Papal Infalliblity because if you are, you really need to do sojme reading.

or any spiritual inequality of priest and laity,

I don't know of any. Our priests are constantly telling us they are no holier than any body else. Ordination does not remove a man's humanity. New Testament Priesthood

or any worship (veneration, or whatever you want to call it) of anyone but God,

Catholics don't worship anyone else but. You know that worship and veneration have different meanings, so maybe it has been explained to you before, maybe you ignored it.

The word "worship" has undergone a change in meaning in English. It comes from the Old English weorthscipe, which means the condition of being worthy of honor, respect, or dignity. To worship in the older, larger sense is to ascribe honor, worth, or excellence to someone, whether a sage, a magistrate, or God.

For many centuries, the term worship simply meant showing respect or honor, and an example of this usage survives in contemporary English. British subjects refer to their magistrates as "Your Worship," although Americans would say "Your Honor." This doesn’t mean that British subjects worship their magistrates as gods (in fact, they may even despise a particular magistrate they are addressing). It means they are giving them the honor appropriate to their office, not the honor appropriate to God.

Outside of this example, however, the English term "worship" has been narrowed in scope to indicate only that supreme form of honor, reverence, and respect that is due to God. This change in usage is quite recent. In fact, one can still find books that use "worship" in the older, broader sense. This can lead to a significant degree of confusion, when people who are familiar only with the use of words in their own day and their own circles encounter material written in other times and other places.
In Scripture, the term "worship" was similarly broad in meaning, but in the early Christian centuries, theologians began to differentiate between different types of honor in order to make more clear which is due to God and which is not.
As the terminology of Christian theology developed, the Greek term latria came to be used to refer to the honor that is due to God alone... read more​

these are against the Word!
It is not that these can be simply added to onto the sound doctrines of the Word,
because they directly contradict the Word.

Sola Scriptura vs Prima Scriptura has nothing to do with it.

There are many Catholics who do not worship mortals (dead or alive), and who do not hold to the infallibility of the Pope, and do not suffer themselves to require the intercession of another mortal for the forgiveness of their sins.
To these Catholics, I call them brothers and sisters. To those who hold to these traditions, I would ask them to read the words of Peter in his letters to the Church, and read the pastoral epistles.

I have never met a Catholic who worships mortals (dead or alive)
You confuse ethical Catholics with practicing Catholics, and you obviously haven't a clue what Papal infallibility means. Please read the above link.

 

[Dogknox]

Jackson123I hope you are well..

The Church Jesus established is his Holy Body!
The Church is Holy Because Jesus is Holy!
Jesus established ONE Church because God is ONE he has ONE Body Jesus!
The One Holy Church Jesus established two thousand years ago, is Apostolic because it has roots that can be traced back two thousand years to Jesus' Apostles!
Peter the first Bishop of Rome was the Chief Apostle!
The Church Jesus established is Catholic (universal) because God is Catholic (universal/ everywhere)!

The Church is Holy but it is full to the top with SINNERS all men are sinners!

2) You have been mislead about the Catholics in WW2!

3) God made all men, he loves all men, he died for all men: Hindu, Chinese, Muslim, Christian, German, Jew yes even the DUTCH!

God is perfect he creates perfectly, it is the sin of men that corrupts Gods creation!

 

[Dogknox]

You mention Peter as bishop of Rome from 42 ad.

when you read act 28 about the arrival of Paul in 60 ad to Rome, where Jew listen to him about Christianity from morning til evening. Do you believe Peter there for 18 years and Jew still not sure about what is christianity?

Your church deceived you brother, You better cross her teaching with the bible.

I reply Jackson123 History proves you wrong!!!

Ignatius of Antioch wrote this in 110 A.D. "Not as Peter and Paul did, do I command you [Romans]. They were apostles, and I am a convict" (Letter to the Romans 4:3 [A.D. 110]).
Dionysius of Corinth wrote this in 170 A.D.
"You [Pope Soter] have also, by your very admonition, brought together the planting that was made by Peter and Paul at Rome and at Corinth; for both of them alike planted in our Corinth and taught us; and both alike, teaching similarly in Italy, suffered martyrdom at the same time" (Letter to Pope Soter [A.D. 170], in Eusebius, History of the Church 2:25:8).


Irenaeus wrote this in 189 A.D.
"Matthew also issued among the Hebrews a written Gospel in their own language, while Peter and Paul were evangelizing in Rome and laying the foundation of the Church" (Against Heresies, 3, 1:1 [A.D. 189]).

 

[Jason0047]

Jesus established his CHURCH to bring salvation to the world!
There was NO bibles (of any number) until the printing press!
Bibles were costly works of art, only the very rich could own a bible!
Fact is: There was NO bible until 400 A.D.

Most people could NOT read until the eighteenth century!!!

If scriptures are the ONLY way to salvation then few would ever have been saved!!!

Jason0047 Church TAUGHT!!
Ephesians 3:9
and to make plain to everyone the administration of this mystery, which for ages past was kept hidden in God, who created all things. 10 His intent was that now, through the church, the manifold wisdom of God should be made known to the rulers and authorities in the heavenly realms


Church has the TRUTH!
1 Timothy 3:15
if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God’s household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.


Jason0047 The man made TRADITION of "Scriptures ALONE" is the root cause for the thousands and thousands of fragmented, divided churches of men!

Jason0047 Jesus established only one Church he has never abandoned his Church he established two thousand years ago!

Matthew 28:20
teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you. And lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world.”

First, it is just silly to suggest that there were Bibles before the printing press (As if that is what I believe and or most Christians believe). The truth is that nobody believes that. Second, if there is one organization that is the most Anti-Christian or unbiblical, it is the RCC (Roman Catholic Church). Did you ever watch the Ten Commandments the movie starring Charleston Heston and or read the part in the Bible about the 2nd Commandment about idolatry? Catholics try and take that out of their Bibles. Did not Jesus warn of us religious men who like to appear outwardly religious with flowing robes, etc.? Where in the world did any of the apostles pray to dead saints and or revere Mary as if she wasn't a sinner? Jesus warned against putting your treasure here upon this Earth and not in Heaven. The RCC flaunts it's wealth (While that money could go to the poor).

 

[ThomistColin]

First, it is just silly to suggest that there were Bibles before the printing press (As if that is what I believe and or most Christians believe). The truth is that nobody believes that. Second, if there is one organization that is the most Anti-Christian or unbiblical, it is the RCC (Roman Catholic Church). Did you ever watch the Ten Commandments the movie starring Charleston Heston and or read the part in the Bible about the 2nd Commandment about idolatry? Catholics try and take that out of their Bibles. Did not Jesus warn of us religious men who like to appear outwardly religious with flowing robes, etc.? Where in the world did any of the apostles pray to dead saints and or revere Mary as if she wasn't a sinner? Jesus warned against putting your treasure here upon this Earth and not in Heaven. The RCC flaunts it's wealth (While that money could go to the poor).

Funny, with that last comment you sound like Judas.

 

[Jackson123]

Jackson123I hope you are well..

The Church Jesus established is his Holy Body!
The Church is Holy Because Jesus is Holy!
Jesus established ONE Church because God is ONE he has ONE Body Jesus!
The One Holy Church Jesus established two thousand years ago, is Apostolic because it has roots that can be traced back two thousand years to Jesus' Apostles!
Peter the first Bishop of Rome was the Chief Apostle!
The Church Jesus established is Catholic (universal) because God is Catholic (universal/ everywhere)!

The Church is Holy but it is full to the top with SINNERS all men are sinners!

2) You have been mislead about the Catholics in WW2!

3) God made all men, he loves all men, he died for all men: Hindu, Chinese, Muslim, Christian, German, Jew yes even the DUTCH!

God is perfect he creates perfectly, it is the sin of men that corrupts Gods creation!

Brother Dogknox, I hope you well to brother.

1. You believe RCC is the only true church, do you believe other church go to hell?
2. About WW II, you better google more brother, there is a lawsuit going on for 10 years in Sanfrancisco about holocaust victim stolen Gold by Vatican,

1. [h=3]Lawsuit Against Vatican - Vatican Bank Claims[/h]www.vaticanbankclaims.com/press.html
   
   
   
   
   
   New Allegations by Holocaust Survivors against Franciscan Order - OFM, Details Slowly ... Vatican Bank Refuses to Release Stolen Roma Gold, April 1, 2006.
   
   3. I know God love every body, But my question is did Muslim include in the plan of salvation like Catholic while you said God only make one true church.
   
   

 

[Jason0047]

Funny, with that last comment you sound like Judas.

If you remember, the context was the worship of Jesus and not the amassing of great wealth (or putting your treasure here upon this Earth). How exactly is the RCC worshiping God in their holding onto great wealth? Just read 1 Timothy 6. In other words, it's not the same thing and you know it. Nowhere do we see any of the practices of the RCC in the Bible. But then again, that is why you need to have some made up church authority and or doctrines in addition to God's Holy Word. In fact, just look at their pagan fish hats (that you can look up in pagan religions of the past). Just look at the upside down crosses (Yes, I am aware of the false cover story). The RCC has a bad reputation for abusing children, etc. The line of popes is anything but pretty. Immorality in it's highest forms has infected this institution. Yes, God's people in the Bible have been known to fall into sin from time to time, but not like the line of popes. I mean, I just look at the RCC today and just see pure evil and nothing good at all about it.

 

[Jackson123]

You mention Peter as bishop of Rome from 42 ad.

when you read act 28 about the arrival of Paul in 60 ad to Rome, where Jew listen to him about Christianity from morning til evening. Do you believe Peter there for 18 years and Jew still not sure about what is christianity?

Your church deceived you brother, You better cross her teaching with the bible.

I reply Jackson123 History proves you wrong!!!

Ignatius of Antioch wrote this in 110 A.D. "Not as Peter and Paul did, do I command you [Romans]. They were apostles, and I am a convict" (Letter to the Romans 4:3 [A.D. 110]).
Dionysius of Corinth wrote this in 170 A.D.
"You [Pope Soter] have also, by your very admonition, brought together the planting that was made by Peter and Paul at Rome and at Corinth; for both of them alike planted in our Corinth and taught us; and both alike, teaching similarly in Italy, suffered martyrdom at the same time" (Letter to Pope Soter [A.D. 170], in Eusebius, History of the Church 2:25:8).


Irenaeus wrote this in 189 A.D.
"Matthew also issued among the Hebrews a written Gospel in their own language, while Peter and Paul were evangelizing in Rome and laying the foundation of the Church" (Against Heresies, 3, 1:1 [A.D. 189]).

Brother Dogknox.

My favorite historian is St Luke. the way he wrote in act 28 is there isn't Church in Paul arrival at 60 AD.

I hope you spend time to read Act 28

22 But we desire to hear of thee what thou thinkest: for as concerning this sect, we know that every where it is spoken against.
23 And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening
Do you believe Peter there for 18 years and they still not sure what is christianity all about and heard from Paul from morning till evening?

Luke wrote in his time, not after 50 years or 100 years. History some time lie. History about 1965 coup in Indonesia, have 2 version. Western journalist and Prof Ben Anderson said it is CIA coup. Indonesian Government version said, It is Communist coup. Don't believe history more then bible brother.