The law of Christ

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J

john832

Senior Member
#421
May 31, 2013
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#421
peacefulbeliever said:
I don't believe that I need manna from heaven . . . If I had lived at that time - I would have gathered my manna appropriately . . But now - my God supplies all my needs according to his riches in glory by Christ Jesus. [Phil. 4:19]

Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ. . . . Col. 2:16 These things were only shadows of the reality - Christ Jesus.
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Did you actually read the verse you posted?

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

They are a shadow of things YET TO COME. And this was written twenty some years after the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Are they still looking forward to Christ's first coming? Or are they looking forward to something that hasn't happened yet?
 
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john832

Senior Member
#422
May 31, 2013
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#422
just-me said:
Ya. I kill a lamb every March and smear blood all over my house. Please ask some questions that have some sincerity that are connected nerve endings in the upper latitudes of your mind.
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Seems that there are those who just do not understand...

Mat 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

It is a good thing there is a second resurrection on the Last Great Day.
 
peacefulbeliever

peacefulbeliever

Senior Member
#423
Feb 21, 2012
3,794
199
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#423
john832 said:
Did you actually read the verse you posted?

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

They are a shadow of things YET TO COME. And this was written twenty some years after the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Are they still looking forward to Christ's first coming? Or are they looking forward to something that hasn't happened yet?
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They were shadows of Christ first coming and they are shadows of Christ's second coming - the Millennial Kingdom - wherein we will enter into HIS rest.

Hebrews 4:1-3a Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, NOT BEING MIXED WITH FAITH in them that heard it. For we WHICH HAVE BELIEVED do enter into rest, . . . . 9-11 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

Romans 14:5,6 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. he that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. he that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks. For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.
 
peacefulbeliever

peacefulbeliever

Senior Member
#424
Feb 21, 2012
3,794
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#424
john832 said:
Seems that there are those who just do not understand...

Mat 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

It is a good thing there is a second resurrection on the Last Great Day.
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Who put you in charge of certifying and sealing someone's salvation?

 
peacefulbeliever

peacefulbeliever

Senior Member
#426
Feb 21, 2012
3,794
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#426
john832 said:
Hmmm, no one. In fact the second resurrection is a resurrection of hope because it ends in eternal life.
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Acts 24:15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and the unjust. both - #1 a resurrection of the just and #2 a resurrection of the unjust
 
J

john832

Senior Member
#427
May 31, 2013
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#427
peacefulbeliever said:
Acts 24:15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and the unjust. both - #1 a resurrection of the just and #2 a resurrection of the unjust
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The second resurrection is not a resurrection of the unjust, it is a resurrection of the uncalled. Those who never had a chance because they were not given to understand the mysteries of heaven...

Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

The books that are opened are the books of the Bible.

There is a third resurrection...

Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

This is the resurrection to the Lake of Fire.
 
peacefulbeliever

peacefulbeliever

Senior Member
#428
Feb 21, 2012
3,794
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#428
john832 said:
The second resurrection is not a resurrection of the unjust, it is a resurrection of the uncalled. Those who never had a chance because they were not given to understand the mysteries of heaven...

Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

The books that are opened are the books of the Bible.

There is a third resurrection...

Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

This is the resurrection to the Lake of Fire.
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Resurrection of both the just and the unjust (Acts 24:15) resurrection of life; resurrection of damnation (John 5:29)

Christ will appear in the air for the saints, the body of Christ to be gathered together - those alive and those that have died. Later after a period of tribulation such as the world has never known the saints will come back with Christ to the earth (upon the Mount of Olives). Israel will not reject Him at his second coming but will hail Him as Messiah and King. OT believers as well as all those who believed the gospel of the kingdom during the tribulation will rise. This is the first resurrection the "resurrection of the just'. (Luke 14:14, Acts 24:15) and the "resurrection of life" (John 5:29) After the thousand year reign on earth - the Millennium - He will raise the remaining dead for the final "white throne judgment". This final judgment is also known as the "resurrection of damnation [judgment]" (John 5:29) and the "resurrection of the unjust" (Acts 24:15; 2 Peter 2:9). Rev. 20:11-15

Alarm!! Alarm!! derail . . . derail . . . sorry just-me :)
 
J

john832

Senior Member
#429
May 31, 2013
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#429
peacefulbeliever said:
Resurrection of both the just and the unjust (Acts 24:15) resurrection of life; resurrection of damnation (John 5:29)

Christ will appear in the air for the saints, the body of Christ to be gathered together - those alive and those that have died. Later after a period of tribulation such as the world has never known the saints will come back with Christ to the earth (upon the Mount of Olives). Israel will not reject Him at his second coming but will hail Him as Messiah and King. OT believers as well as all those who believed the gospel of the kingdom during the tribulation will rise. This is the first resurrection the "resurrection of the just'. (Luke 14:14, Acts 24:15) and the "resurrection of life" (John 5:29) After the thousand year reign on earth - the Millennium - He will raise the remaining dead for the final "white throne judgment". This final judgment is also known as the "resurrection of damnation [judgment]" (John 5:29) and the "resurrection of the unjust" (Acts 24:15; 2 Peter 2:9). Rev. 20:11-15

Alarm!! Alarm!! derail . . . derail . . . sorry just-me :)
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Why do you suppose that the two resurrections of the latter part of Rev 20 are the same?

Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Notice the difference? In the resurrection of verses 11 and 12 the books (biblios) is opened. The Book of Life is also opened.

In the resurrection of verses 13-15 no books are opened but the Book of Life.

What do you suppose God does with those who have never had a chance? Just burn 'em? Or does He give them the opportunity to make an informed decision?
 
E

ELECT

Guest
#430
#430
peacefulbeliever said:
All who call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved . . . Jesus died for the ungodly. "It is a prerequisite though." A prerequisite for being saved? We have to clean ourselves up first before we are saved? . . . They that be whole need not a physician but they that are sick . . . I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance. Matt. 9:12,13b

I believe that I said not all has been fulfilled but what has been fulfilled is complete.

With the coming of the holy Spirit, God's law is in our inward parts and written upon our hearts. He is our God and we are his people - the children of God in the household of God - part of the body, the church, with Christ as the head. Have we been forgiven our iniquity and God remembers it no more? Does he not cast our sins as far as the east is from the west? Again, not ALL if fulfilled.

You did not specify "sacrifice for sin" when you said "sacrifices were not offered until almost a year later."

I don't believe I have said we are to ignore "the letter" of the law. We are not UNDER BONDAGE to that LAW - will we fulfill the law by walking by the Spirit, i.e. walking in love, freely.

"SPEAK UNTO THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL" . . . Do I belong to the children of Israel? I am a child of God. I belong to the church, the body of Christ. I learn from the OT scripture but some things are not and cannot be applied in my life. Is it best that I do not eat fat? Yes, of course, and it's a good thing I hate fat! Romans 15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope. Seeing what Daniel endured, seeing what David accomplished, seeing Job's life, etc. - shows me what others have endured, therefore I receive patience and comfort and hope through those scriptures.

So you are saying there are still "clean" and "unclean" animals? I think my food is received with thanksgiving and with prayer - therefore God has blessed what I am about to eat - it has been set apart - my food is blessed for my body and will bring nourishment to my body. Are you "commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth"? :cool:
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[h=1]Galatians 6:16King James Version (KJV)[/h]16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.


Ephesians 2:12
That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
 
E

ELECT

Guest
#431
#431
john832 said:
Why do you suppose that the two resurrections of the latter part of Rev 20 are the same?

Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Notice the difference? In the resurrection of verses 11 and 12 the books (biblios) is opened. The Book of Life is also opened.

In the resurrection of verses 13-15 no books are opened but the Book of Life.

What do you suppose God does with those who have never had a chance? Just burn 'em? Or does He give them the opportunity to make an informed decision?
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Are you saying that some of the dead that come in the second resurrection have a chance to follow God ?:confused:
 
E

ELECT

Guest
#432
#432
john832 said:
The second resurrection is not a resurrection of the unjust, it is a resurrection of the uncalled. Those who never had a chance because they were not given to understand the mysteries of heaven...

Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

The books that are opened are the books of the Bible.

There is a third resurrection...

Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

This is the resurrection to the Lake of Fire.
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Will God now be adding those people in the book of life ?

or is God opening it to shew them their names in it to let them in ?
 
K

Kerry

Guest
#433
#433
The great white throne judgment is where every person who has ever lived will stand and face judgement, If you have faith in the cross then He will pass over you, but to those who stood their ground and would not, they are cast into the lake of fire. Those like Cycel and Colincat if they do not repent and kneel to to the work of the cross.
 
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john832

Senior Member
#435
May 31, 2013
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#435
ELECT said:
Will God now be adding those people in the book of life ?

or is God opening it to shew them their names in it to let them in ?
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The Book of Life can have names added and names removed. At this time, those who choose to follow God will have their names added to the Book of Life and will be given eternal life.
 
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john832

Senior Member
#436
May 31, 2013
11,365
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#436
Kerry said:
The great white throne judgment is where every person who has ever lived will stand and face judgement, If you have faith in the cross then He will pass over you, but to those who stood their ground and would not, they are cast into the lake of fire. Those like Cycel and Colincat if they do not repent and kneel to to the work of the cross.
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The church is being judged today...

1Pe 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

Those in the Millennium will be judged at that time. There is another class of people, those who have not had their opportunity...

Mat 12:41 The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here.

Notice that the men of Nineveh will rise in the judgment at the same time as that generation of Jesus time? Was that generation (as a whole) condemned to eternal death?

Mat 13:10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
Mat 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
Mat 13:12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
Mat 13:13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
Mat 13:14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
Mat 13:15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

No, they were blinded. They could NOT UNDERSTAND the truth of God at that time...

Rom 11:7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded
Rom 11:8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day.

God purposely blinded them. Why? So He could burn them? No...

Rom 11:32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

These people have been blinded and it has not been given to them to understand the truth. When their mind is opened to the truth...

Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

(Now remember, it was not given to them to understand previously)

Then they have the chance to have their name written in the Book of life.
 
P

phil112

Guest
#437
#437
just-me said:
Is the law given to Moses spiritually different than the law of Christ?

Give a distinct yes or a no when answering this question.

Hopfully this will eleviate confusion that causes circular rhetoric that has no end.
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.......... LAW VS SPIRIT.jpg
 
E

ELECT

Guest
#438
#438
john832 said:
The church is being judged today...

1Pe 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

Those in the Millennium will be judged at that time. There is another class of people, those who have not had their opportunity...

Mat 12:41 The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here.

Notice that the men of Nineveh will rise in the judgment at the same time as that generation of Jesus time? Was that generation (as a whole) condemned to eternal death?

Mat 13:10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
Mat 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
Mat 13:12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
Mat 13:13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
Mat 13:14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
Mat 13:15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

No, they were blinded. They could NOT UNDERSTAND the truth of God at that time...

Rom 11:7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded
Rom 11:8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day.

God purposely blinded them. Why? So He could burn them? No...

Rom 11:32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

These people have been blinded and it has not been given to them to understand the truth. When their mind is opened to the truth...

Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

(Now remember, it was not given to them to understand previously)

Then they have the chance to have their name written in the Book of life.
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two classes of people not three

good or evil

just or unjust

sheep or goat

wheat or tare

wise or foolish

righteous or wicked

there will not be three classes of people you either make it right now or not

what is the times of ignorance ?
 
J

john832

Senior Member
#439
May 31, 2013
11,365
186
63
#439


Tradition allowed for it?

Christ wasn't real big on tradition...

Mar 7:8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.

Mat 22:36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Mat 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

These were the Commandments from the beginning, Christ wasn't just making things up as He went, He is perfectly consistent.

Christ always intended the Law be kept spiritually as well as physically...

Mat 19:7 They say unto him, Why did Moses then command to give a writing of divorcement, and to put her away?
Mat 19:8 He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so.

Lev 19:17 Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.
Lev 19:18 Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.
 
E

ELECT

Guest
#440
#440
john832 said:
The church is being judged today...

1Pe 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

Those in the Millennium will be judged at that time. There is another class of people, those who have not had their opportunity...

Mat 12:41 The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here.

Notice that the men of Nineveh will rise in the judgment at the same time as that generation of Jesus time? Was that generation (as a whole) condemned to eternal death?

Mat 13:10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
Mat 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
Mat 13:12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
Mat 13:13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
Mat 13:14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
Mat 13:15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

No, they were blinded. They could NOT UNDERSTAND the truth of God at that time...

Rom 11:7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded
Rom 11:8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day.

God purposely blinded them. Why? So He could burn them? No...

Rom 11:32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

These people have been blinded and it has not been given to them to understand the truth. When their mind is opened to the truth...

Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

(Now remember, it was not given to them to understand previously)

Then they have the chance to have their name written in the Book of life.
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Israel blindness is not the same as what you mentioned

Israel blindness is for only those that God will called

Jesus told the blind Pharasee that they will die in their sins

[h=1]Matthew 15:14King James Version (KJV)[/h]14 Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.
 
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