This is Sickening...How are we making Suicide a Viable Option?!
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comparing this issue to abortion is about as relevant as our comparing a tricycle to motorcycle.
the ONLY commonality is a death is involved. the circumstances are entirely different. there are so many things that i could point out as marked differences that i don't have the lengthy time required to do such a thing.
that said, i certainly respect your dissenting view. : )
the ONLY commonality is a death is involved. the circumstances are entirely different. there are so many things that i could point out as marked differences that i don't have the lengthy time required to do such a thing.
that said, i certainly respect your dissenting view. : )
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Appreciate it.
A
Ok- Four years ago, I fell and fractured a rib. I went to a doc-in-a box, and they said it would heal in time. It was painful. Weeks later the pain became worse. I went to the hospital, where they x-rayed me and were shocked to find a mass the size of a grapfruit, on the outside of my right lung.....wrapped around my aorta.....after seeing heart specialists and cancer docs, they told me that it was INOPERABLE.........they gave me 3 months to live. But they said we could try chemo and radiation. I did and yes, it was difficult!!!
BUT NOTHING COULD BE MORE DIFFICULT, UNCOMFORTABLE,PAINFUL,AWFUL.....THAN CHRIST ON THAT CROSS!!!! For God, watching His SON!!
As you can tell, doctors do not have the final say so, nor do we. God does. I am still alive and in remission!!! God is the one that gives, and takes away, in HIS time. Not ours. I was healed. Many people are. Many people aren't. But in the end, we have no right to take our own lives. Christ suffered for US! Our suffering pales in comparrison to His!!
God Bless~~~
BUT NOTHING COULD BE MORE DIFFICULT, UNCOMFORTABLE,PAINFUL,AWFUL.....THAN CHRIST ON THAT CROSS!!!! For God, watching His SON!!
As you can tell, doctors do not have the final say so, nor do we. God does. I am still alive and in remission!!! God is the one that gives, and takes away, in HIS time. Not ours. I was healed. Many people are. Many people aren't. But in the end, we have no right to take our own lives. Christ suffered for US! Our suffering pales in comparrison to His!!
God Bless~~~
Maybe you should study history friend as this type of slope is slippery and can lead to more undesirable consequences....now to add to your post above...I just went to a funeral of my best friend from high school that I have known longer than you have been alive and he had inoperable brain cancer, bone cancer and colon cancer....HE DIED peacefully, in no pain and with family and friends gathered around him after SEEING all the people he wanted to see....God is in charge of life an death and he has pre-set our days under the sun.....so...your mouthy facetious remark was uncalled for.....!
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A
Dcontroversal- did you see the post by "human".....
>>>>>>>> "I would argue that to force another person by law to face several months of debilitating physical ability, mental stress and intensifying physical pain is far more 'sick' than to allow them a death with some dignity."
I'm having a hard time understanding people today.............. just saying...............
>>>>>>>> "I would argue that to force another person by law to face several months of debilitating physical ability, mental stress and intensifying physical pain is far more 'sick' than to allow them a death with some dignity."
I'm having a hard time understanding people today.............. just saying...............
Yeah I know.....People who name Jesus, and they still fail to understand that God is in charge and his will is perfect.......me personally, I would despise and hate to die from a bad disease such as cancer (as everyone would) yet at the same time I would rather manage the pain and sickness an get as much time under the sun with family and friends as possible......on top of that...even being an Marine in the 80's and knowing I am saved I wouldn't have enough intestinal fortitude to whack myself as I love life way too much!
A very difficult circumstance that stems from:
1. Hopelessness
2. Deceived into believing our life is our own
I personally am not for suicide but it is hard to formulate an opinion when not in that circumstance.
I know myself trials in life have felt so hard I told God I just wanted to die, many times obviously not as hard as this ladies but my trials met me just above where I was at so I could grow but also...I wasn't terminally ill either.
1. Hopelessness
2. Deceived into believing our life is our own
I personally am not for suicide but it is hard to formulate an opinion when not in that circumstance.
I know myself trials in life have felt so hard I told God I just wanted to die, many times obviously not as hard as this ladies but my trials met me just above where I was at so I could grow but also...I wasn't terminally ill either.
1. Doctors never give you a precise date in which you'll die. It's all an estimation.
2. Doctors give estimations based on other similar events. In this case, she was given about 6 months based on how long other patients with similar forms of cancer generally live. It's not that simple, but that's the basic gist of how it works.
Doctors always leave room for error. Their estimations are sometimes wrong because they are only human. There are things doctors either overlook or don't understand that makes some patients outliers.
For one reason or another, you're an exception. Either the doctor misdiagnosed you, your schizophrenia went away for one reason or another, or a number of possible things (including "God did it"). But there are so many people out there who don't get better, who go crazy when they don't take their meds.
In this case, this woman had cancer and she wasn't going to recover. She began to suffer more and more each day - she was getting much worse. She was having seizures regularly. She went from "possibly dying from cancer" to "you're almost no doubt going to die from cancer".
She could have lived through this - but that was an incredibly unlikely scenario. Everyone talks about surviving cancer patients not realizing how little the cancer spread in these exceptional cases. They forget that the few people who survive cancer are rare exceptions.
Wrong. Both believers and non-beliers strive to keep their loved ones alive for as long as possible. But when people begin to suffer, it's often the non-believers who are ready to let go. Believers believe suicide is a sin, and therefore feel those who are suffering should tough it out until God takes them himself.
Obviously there will be exceptions on both sides. But for the most part, it's Christians who oppose assisted suicide.
It depends on what we base our decisions on. If we believe people have a right to do with their own body as they please, including suicide, then we don't have to worry about euthanasia of the elderly or of children since it would be non-consensual.
It's like saying, "If we allow people to defend their homes from invaders using guns, then what next?! Do we allow people to shoot others for sport?" It's a slippery slope fallacy in which you're ignoring the basic principle policies are founded on.
I agree completely. If you believe assisted suicide is a sin, even if it's to escape suffering of a terminal illness, then you can cling onto life for as long as possible. But why should that give you a right to prevent other people from killing themselves?
If acceptance of God is a choice, then so should assisted suicide - whether it's a sin or not. If you think it's wrong, preach! Tell the world how wrong it is! But ultimately you shouldn't force them to accept your standards of living, you need to let them make that decision. (All of this assuming we abide by the non-coercion principle.)
Obviously, we shouldn't be allowed to kill sick people who want to live. But we should be able to decide what we do with our own bodies.
Somebody is racing to your home to kill your family. You can't get a hold of anybody to help you and you can't reach your family to warn them. Your only option is to kill the offender. Would it be a sin to kill him as a means of protecting you family?
If you said yes, then this means it's not as black and white as "only God can decide who lives and dies". It means there's an exception to this rule. If there's an exception to the rule, then we must lay out parameters as to why the exception is allowed. Does this mean assisted suicide is okay? Not necessarily. But it does mean we can't simply rely on the argument "Only God can decide who lives and dies" since clearly that's not always the case.
If you said no, then I guess there's no contradiction in your logic. Congrats.
2. Doctors give estimations based on other similar events. In this case, she was given about 6 months based on how long other patients with similar forms of cancer generally live. It's not that simple, but that's the basic gist of how it works.
Doctors always leave room for error. Their estimations are sometimes wrong because they are only human. There are things doctors either overlook or don't understand that makes some patients outliers.
For one reason or another, you're an exception. Either the doctor misdiagnosed you, your schizophrenia went away for one reason or another, or a number of possible things (including "God did it"). But there are so many people out there who don't get better, who go crazy when they don't take their meds.
In this case, this woman had cancer and she wasn't going to recover. She began to suffer more and more each day - she was getting much worse. She was having seizures regularly. She went from "possibly dying from cancer" to "you're almost no doubt going to die from cancer".
She could have lived through this - but that was an incredibly unlikely scenario. Everyone talks about surviving cancer patients not realizing how little the cancer spread in these exceptional cases. They forget that the few people who survive cancer are rare exceptions.
Wrong. Both believers and non-beliers strive to keep their loved ones alive for as long as possible. But when people begin to suffer, it's often the non-believers who are ready to let go. Believers believe suicide is a sin, and therefore feel those who are suffering should tough it out until God takes them himself.
Obviously there will be exceptions on both sides. But for the most part, it's Christians who oppose assisted suicide.
It depends on what we base our decisions on. If we believe people have a right to do with their own body as they please, including suicide, then we don't have to worry about euthanasia of the elderly or of children since it would be non-consensual.
It's like saying, "If we allow people to defend their homes from invaders using guns, then what next?! Do we allow people to shoot others for sport?" It's a slippery slope fallacy in which you're ignoring the basic principle policies are founded on.
I agree completely. If you believe assisted suicide is a sin, even if it's to escape suffering of a terminal illness, then you can cling onto life for as long as possible. But why should that give you a right to prevent other people from killing themselves?
If acceptance of God is a choice, then so should assisted suicide - whether it's a sin or not. If you think it's wrong, preach! Tell the world how wrong it is! But ultimately you shouldn't force them to accept your standards of living, you need to let them make that decision. (All of this assuming we abide by the non-coercion principle.)
Obviously, we shouldn't be allowed to kill sick people who want to live. But we should be able to decide what we do with our own bodies.
Somebody is racing to your home to kill your family. You can't get a hold of anybody to help you and you can't reach your family to warn them. Your only option is to kill the offender. Would it be a sin to kill him as a means of protecting you family?
If you said yes, then this means it's not as black and white as "only God can decide who lives and dies". It means there's an exception to this rule. If there's an exception to the rule, then we must lay out parameters as to why the exception is allowed. Does this mean assisted suicide is okay? Not necessarily. But it does mean we can't simply rely on the argument "Only God can decide who lives and dies" since clearly that's not always the case.
If you said no, then I guess there's no contradiction in your logic. Congrats.
If our days are pre-set and we commit suicide, then that means one of two things. Either our suicide was a part of God's plan or we were able to interfere with God's plan (which is to suggest it's even possible to do so). Essentially, suicide has to be a part of God's plan or you're wrong about our deaths being pre-set.
Furthermore, we know death isn't pre-set because it's so very often unnatural. Many people die due to their own decisions such as getting drunk and getting into car accidents due to being intoxicated, or people getting hit by cars because they crossed the road without looking both ways, etc. So how can a death be pre-set if it's preventable to begin with?
And if you want to argue that death isn't preventable, then why bother wearing seat belts or helmets? Why bother with safety codes? Why be careful of who your children are around if you believe God will decide what happens to them?
Free-will contradicts your statement that death is pre-set. Because even if God does have control over when we live or die - it's clearly improvised a large portion of the time (which is the opposite of it being pre-determined).
You stated the reasons why you wouldn't want to die, even if you were dying. What you fail to realize is how people lose these reasons as they suffer.
Life is wonderful because it's enjoyable. But when you can't enjoy the time when you're alive - death becomes preferable. When you find yourself in constant pain, having seizures every few hours, vomiting and defecating yourself, are you really able to find enjoyment in being alive? Do you really want to die in front of your friends when you have a relatively sound mind and bowel control or would you want to fight for as long as you can and die after losing control of yourself and being in a pitiful state?
When we think of suicide, we think of people who feel similar to how we feel now. We often don't think of all the pain they go through, or we greatly underestimate that pain. Vomiting and pooing yourself till the very end might be acceptable for you, but many people don't want to go through all of that in front of their family, not if they're going to die anyway!
Furthermore, we know death isn't pre-set because it's so very often unnatural. Many people die due to their own decisions such as getting drunk and getting into car accidents due to being intoxicated, or people getting hit by cars because they crossed the road without looking both ways, etc. So how can a death be pre-set if it's preventable to begin with?
And if you want to argue that death isn't preventable, then why bother wearing seat belts or helmets? Why bother with safety codes? Why be careful of who your children are around if you believe God will decide what happens to them?
Free-will contradicts your statement that death is pre-set. Because even if God does have control over when we live or die - it's clearly improvised a large portion of the time (which is the opposite of it being pre-determined).
You stated the reasons why you wouldn't want to die, even if you were dying. What you fail to realize is how people lose these reasons as they suffer.
Life is wonderful because it's enjoyable. But when you can't enjoy the time when you're alive - death becomes preferable. When you find yourself in constant pain, having seizures every few hours, vomiting and defecating yourself, are you really able to find enjoyment in being alive? Do you really want to die in front of your friends when you have a relatively sound mind and bowel control or would you want to fight for as long as you can and die after losing control of yourself and being in a pitiful state?
When we think of suicide, we think of people who feel similar to how we feel now. We often don't think of all the pain they go through, or we greatly underestimate that pain. Vomiting and pooing yourself till the very end might be acceptable for you, but many people don't want to go through all of that in front of their family, not if they're going to die anyway!
Unless someone is threatening to kill your family and YOU decide it's okay to kill them...
And if you argue that God made his decision through you, then the same logic can be made in which he decided to kill someone through their own suicide.
Unless you're willing to admit that a person shouldn't kill, even to defend themselves or their family, then there's no way you can use this argument in a logically consistent manner.
And if you argue that God made his decision through you, then the same logic can be made in which he decided to kill someone through their own suicide.
Unless you're willing to admit that a person shouldn't kill, even to defend themselves or their family, then there's no way you can use this argument in a logically consistent manner.
I have worked in a palliative care with the dying as a chaplain. There is really no reason to suffer before death these days. I cannot imagine God is pleased with assisted suicide, or the death of this person.
God tells us to choose life, and I believe that is even in the face of pain and death.
"I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and curse. Therefore choose life, that you and your offspring may live," Deut. 30:19
PS I know what excruciating pain is! I wanted to die in those days, but I am glad God helped me make it out the other side.
God tells us to choose life, and I believe that is even in the face of pain and death.
"I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and curse. Therefore choose life, that you and your offspring may live," Deut. 30:19
PS I know what excruciating pain is! I wanted to die in those days, but I am glad God helped me make it out the other side.
Call 911 cause I murdered my dad....
when I followed through with his DNR request of not being artificially kept alive.
Sorry to clue some of you folks in but christians don't get spared the messiness of death.
You may end up out of your mind and wearing a diaper...that's just how this world goes. She chose not to go that way.
She probably wasn't saved and that is just a horrible fact we all have to deal with face to face with God but I don't blame her one bit for not wanting to go out that way.
when I followed through with his DNR request of not being artificially kept alive.
Sorry to clue some of you folks in but christians don't get spared the messiness of death.
You may end up out of your mind and wearing a diaper...that's just how this world goes. She chose not to go that way.
She probably wasn't saved and that is just a horrible fact we all have to deal with face to face with God but I don't blame her one bit for not wanting to go out that way.
K
There is no contradiction in my logic. Eye for an eye,OT. Different then someone taking their own life all together.And I dont know why Im posting this because you'll argue black and blue that Im wrong.As a Christian it is up to God whether we live or die.I'd rather not endure an attack on how stupid I am.So I'll save you the bother.You won't change my mind,or Gods.I go by what He says on the subject.Period.
