Simple Question...No Simple Answer
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So then you agree that faith its self is a work.
1 Thessalonians 1:3 (NKJV)
3 remembering without ceasing your work of faith, labor of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ in the sight of our God and Father,
2 Thessalonians 1:11 (NKJV)
11 Therefore we also pray always for you that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfill all the good pleasure of His goodness and the work of faith with power,
1 Thessalonians 1:3 (NKJV)
3 remembering without ceasing your work of faith, labor of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ in the sight of our God and Father,
2 Thessalonians 1:11 (NKJV)
11 Therefore we also pray always for you that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfill all the good pleasure of His goodness and the work of faith with power,
E
no, niether of those two are saying faith is a work.
the first one is saying our works which come from faith, the things we do in patient hope in our lord, and sight of the father.
the second one is the work of God. It says HIS (gods) goodness and work of faith (the cross and other works he has done and is doing for us)
the first one is saying our works which come from faith, the things we do in patient hope in our lord, and sight of the father.
the second one is the work of God. It says HIS (gods) goodness and work of faith (the cross and other works he has done and is doing for us)
K
That is exactly my point I try to make over and over again.
They say nothing is required for us to do, but then they contradict themselves by saying only a genuine faith or true faith will have somebody repent.
Therefore faith alone can not save, for the faith one has might be a false faith or miss teaching of faith to them.
This is where the concept and dangers of a watered down gospel comes from.
There are churches that teach repentance, confession, baptism are not required.
Jesus commanded all three.
K
Once again you get the wrong concept.
I never said we can remove the penalty of our sins.
What I said is Jesus gave us a way to be reconciled to God, by taking our punishment for sins and being our sacrifice for sins once and for all. We now have to accept what the Lord did for us, by obeying Him through repenting of our sins, being baptized, and confessing Him before others while living a new life serving Him instead of sin.
If you continue to walk in willful sin, or turn back to willfully sinning after you know the truth then you serve that sin and do not serve the Lord. There is no salvation in this kind of lifestyles.
To refuse what the Lord commanded us to do is denying Him, and He said those who deny Him, He will deny before the father......No salvation.
Your works determine who you serve !!!!!
K
alright, i got myself a notebook so i can start keeping track.
so will someone please be kind enough to tell me how many "works" i need to do in order to be saved ..?
i want to be able to mark the date when i've finally got an assurance of our Hope.
so will someone please be kind enough to tell me how many "works" i need to do in order to be saved ..?
i want to be able to mark the date when i've finally got an assurance of our Hope.
That is where the miss concept is.
It is not about doing works to be saved, as in earning salvation. And it is not about how much or little works one does.
It is about how your works prove who you serve, rather that be the Lord or sin.
The bible makes it clear that those who of satan can not produce good works. Bad tree can not produce good fruit.
Works work hand and hand with salvation to prove ones faith genuine, and not a false faith.
Example: Somebody claims Jesus is their Lord, but when you watch them they do no good works. When they quote scripture if you listen closely you will see they leave parts out, twist it, reverse it, and take away from what the Lord said.
You and the NIV say that, but it is not found in the Greek or any other English translation.
No, it says "our God would count you" it is not God doing the work, it is the "you" (either way the faith is work)
2 Thessalonians 1:11-12 (NKJV)
11 Therefore we also pray always for you that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfill all the good pleasure of His goodness and the work of faith with power, 12 that the name of our Lord Jesus Christ may be glorified in you, and you in Him, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ.
No, it says "our God would count you" it is not God doing the work, it is the "you" (either way the faith is work)
2 Thessalonians 1:11-12 (NKJV)
11 Therefore we also pray always for you that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfill all the good pleasure of His goodness and the work of faith with power, 12 that the name of our Lord Jesus Christ may be glorified in you, and you in Him, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ.
Yes, if faith only saves then one would NEVER have to do the work of repenting, would never have to do any works at all but just do nothing his whole life and be saved. One cannot both do works and not do works at the same time....either one must obey to be saved or do nothing to be saved but cannot do both at the same time. Some are trying to straddle the fence and want one to be saved by faith only BUT THEN do works. As some faith onlyists say "faith alone saves but faith that saves is never alone" > fence straddling...faith cannot both be alone and not alone at the same time.
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Jesus saith unto them,
My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work.
(John 4:34)
fight to end malnourishment.
And Jesus said unto them,
I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger;
and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.
(John 6:35)
there is a way to encourage each other without accusation and presumptuous condemnation.
Which of you, if your son asks for bread, will give him a stone?
(Matthew 7:9)
For even when we were with you, this we commanded you,
that if any would not work, neither should he eat.
(2 Thessalonians 3:10)
And he humbled you and let you hunger and fed you with manna, which you did not know, nor did your fathers know, that he might make you know that man does not live by bread alone, but man lives by every word that comes from the mouth of the LORD.
(Deuteronomy 8:3)
This is the bread that came down from heaven.
Your ancestors ate manna and died, but whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.
(John 6:58)
My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work.
(John 4:34)
fight to end malnourishment.
And Jesus said unto them,
I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger;
and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.
(John 6:35)
there is a way to encourage each other without accusation and presumptuous condemnation.
Which of you, if your son asks for bread, will give him a stone?
(Matthew 7:9)
For even when we were with you, this we commanded you,
that if any would not work, neither should he eat.
(2 Thessalonians 3:10)
And he humbled you and let you hunger and fed you with manna, which you did not know, nor did your fathers know, that he might make you know that man does not live by bread alone, but man lives by every word that comes from the mouth of the LORD.
(Deuteronomy 8:3)
This is the bread that came down from heaven.
Your ancestors ate manna and died, but whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.
(John 6:58)