Simple Question...No Simple Answer
- Thread starter SeaBass
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
The point I am trying to get across is if FAITH ONLY saves (no works) then one can be saved without feeding the poor, tending the sick etc, right?
But if a Christian MUST do these good works in order to maintain his salvation then works are a necessary part of his salvation.
In Eph 2:10 God made doing these good works a NECESSARY part of being a Christian. One cannot be a Christian without doing these good works so one who has become a Christian cannot continue to be a Christian/saved WITHOUT doing these good works.
It's impossible to be saved without ever dong any works at all...works are essential.
K
[h=1]Matthew 25[/h][h=3]The Parable of the Ten Virgins[/h]25 “At that time the kingdom of heaven will be like ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom. 2 Five of them were foolish and five were wise. 3 The foolish ones took their lamps but did not take any oil with them. 4 The wise ones, however, took oil in jars along with their lamps. 5 The bridegroom was a long time in coming, and they all became drowsy and fell asleep.
6 “At midnight the cry rang out: ‘Here’s the bridegroom! Come out to meet him!’
7 “Then all the virgins woke up and trimmed their lamps. 8 The foolish ones said to the wise, ‘Give us some of your oil; our lamps are going out.’
9 “‘No,’ they replied, ‘there may not be enough for both us and you. Instead, go to those who sell oil and buy some for yourselves.’
10 “But while they were on their way to buy the oil, the bridegroom arrived. The virgins who were ready went in with him to the wedding banquet. And the door was shut.
11 “Later the others also came. ‘Lord, Lord,’ they said, ‘open the door for us!’
12 “But he replied, ‘Truly I tell you, I don’t know you.’
13 “Therefore keep watch, because you do not know the day or the hour.
[h=3]The Parable of the Bags of Gold[/h]14 “Again, it will be like a man going on a journey, who called his servants and entrusted his wealth to them. 15 To one he gave five bags of gold, to another two bags, and to another one bag,[a] each according to his ability. Then he went on his journey. 16 The man who had received five bags of gold went at once and put his money to work and gained five bags more. 17 So also, the one with two bags of gold gained two more. 18 But the man who had received one bag went off, dug a hole in the ground and hid his master’s money.
19 “After a long time the master of those servants returned and settled accounts with them. 20 The man who had received five bags of gold brought the other five. ‘Master,’ he said, ‘you entrusted me with five bags of gold. See, I have gained five more.’
21 “His master replied, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant! You have been faithful with a few things; I will put you in charge of many things. Come and share your master’s happiness!’
22 “The man with two bags of gold also came. ‘Master,’ he said, ‘you entrusted me with two bags of gold; see, I have gained two more.’
23 “His master replied, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant! You have been faithful with a few things; I will put you in charge of many things. Come and share your master’s happiness!’
24 “Then the man who had received one bag of gold came. ‘Master,’ he said, ‘I knew that you are a hard man, harvesting where you have not sown and gathering where you have not scattered seed. 25 So I was afraid and went out and hid your gold in the ground. See, here is what belongs to you.’
26 “His master replied, ‘You wicked, lazy servant! So you knew that I harvest where I have not sown and gather where I have not scattered seed? 27 Well then, you should have put my money on deposit with the bankers, so that when I returned I would have received it back with interest.
28 “‘So take the bag of gold from him and give it to the one who has ten bags.29 For whoever has will be given more, and they will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what they have will be taken from them. 30 And throw that worthless servant outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’
[h=3]The Sheep and the Goats[/h]31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’
37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’
40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’
41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’
44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’
45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’
46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”
6 “At midnight the cry rang out: ‘Here’s the bridegroom! Come out to meet him!’
7 “Then all the virgins woke up and trimmed their lamps. 8 The foolish ones said to the wise, ‘Give us some of your oil; our lamps are going out.’
9 “‘No,’ they replied, ‘there may not be enough for both us and you. Instead, go to those who sell oil and buy some for yourselves.’
10 “But while they were on their way to buy the oil, the bridegroom arrived. The virgins who were ready went in with him to the wedding banquet. And the door was shut.
11 “Later the others also came. ‘Lord, Lord,’ they said, ‘open the door for us!’
12 “But he replied, ‘Truly I tell you, I don’t know you.’
13 “Therefore keep watch, because you do not know the day or the hour.
[h=3]The Parable of the Bags of Gold[/h]14 “Again, it will be like a man going on a journey, who called his servants and entrusted his wealth to them. 15 To one he gave five bags of gold, to another two bags, and to another one bag,[a] each according to his ability. Then he went on his journey. 16 The man who had received five bags of gold went at once and put his money to work and gained five bags more. 17 So also, the one with two bags of gold gained two more. 18 But the man who had received one bag went off, dug a hole in the ground and hid his master’s money.
19 “After a long time the master of those servants returned and settled accounts with them. 20 The man who had received five bags of gold brought the other five. ‘Master,’ he said, ‘you entrusted me with five bags of gold. See, I have gained five more.’
21 “His master replied, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant! You have been faithful with a few things; I will put you in charge of many things. Come and share your master’s happiness!’
22 “The man with two bags of gold also came. ‘Master,’ he said, ‘you entrusted me with two bags of gold; see, I have gained two more.’
23 “His master replied, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant! You have been faithful with a few things; I will put you in charge of many things. Come and share your master’s happiness!’
24 “Then the man who had received one bag of gold came. ‘Master,’ he said, ‘I knew that you are a hard man, harvesting where you have not sown and gathering where you have not scattered seed. 25 So I was afraid and went out and hid your gold in the ground. See, here is what belongs to you.’
26 “His master replied, ‘You wicked, lazy servant! So you knew that I harvest where I have not sown and gather where I have not scattered seed? 27 Well then, you should have put my money on deposit with the bankers, so that when I returned I would have received it back with interest.
28 “‘So take the bag of gold from him and give it to the one who has ten bags.29 For whoever has will be given more, and they will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what they have will be taken from them. 30 And throw that worthless servant outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’
[h=3]The Sheep and the Goats[/h]31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’
37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’
40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’
41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’
44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’
45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’
46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”
If we look at Isa 64:5,6 we see the prophet is writing about people who are in iniquity...."and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away" and "for thou hast hid thy face from us, and hast consumed us, because of our iniquities" Israel had turned their back on God to worship idols.
But verse 5 says "Thou meetest him that rejoiceth and worketh righteousness,...."
Those that are not in iniquity but work righteousness God meets/entreats/helps them, not treat their righteousness as filthy rags.
If obeying God is filthy rags then the following verses must read:
Heb 5:8 "Though he were a Son, yet learned he filthy rags by the things which he suffered;
Heb 5:9 Christ is the author of salvation to all them that have filthy rags.
2 Thess 1:8 "In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that have no filthy rags..."
-------------------------------------------------
Acts 10:34,35 "Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him."
This is part of Peter's sermon to the Gentiles. When Peter says God is not a respecter of person means God has no respect in regards to a person's nationality, race- God will save anyone regardless of his nationality or race- God will save a Gentile as He would a Jew. So salvation is open to ANYONE regardless of race, nationality wealth that WORKETH RIGHTEOUSNESS. So if the Gentiles would work righteousness God will save them. If the Jew works righteousness God will save them. God through Peter commanded the Gentiles to be water baptized and when the Gentiles obeyed they were working righteousness, obeying God's command and would be accepted with God.
In Acts 10:30 Cornlius refers back to what he was doing in verse 2 "A devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God alway. He saw in a vision evidently about the ninth hour of the day an angel of God coming in to him, and saying unto him, Cornelius." and in verse 22 we are told that Cornelius as a just man/righteous man. Even though he is called just and feared God, gave alms and prayed to God alway he was LOST. That is why Peter was sent to him to preach the gospel, (Cornelius wold be saved by words Acts 11:14). Part of those saving words included the command to be water baptized and when Cornelius obeyed those words he would be working righteousness accepted with God/saved.
Again, see my signature line below where John says whosoever continues to NOT do righteousness CONTINUES to NOT be of God.
One must do God's righteousness/commands for God to reckon him righteous.
Last edited:
You are adding to what the word of God teaches. You are adding to what Jesus taught.
Why is faith likened to the heart of an innocent child? Because a child believes without prejudice or bias. A child believes because he can trust without fear. This is how we must receive the grace of God to be saved. Jesus I wholly and completely trust You to save me from my sins. I offer nothing, no price do I bring whereby I might merit even the least of Thy favor. I deserve eternal condemnation but if Thou will have mercy upon me and save me from my sins.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Why is faith likened to the heart of an innocent child? Because a child believes without prejudice or bias. A child believes because he can trust without fear. This is how we must receive the grace of God to be saved. Jesus I wholly and completely trust You to save me from my sins. I offer nothing, no price do I bring whereby I might merit even the least of Thy favor. I deserve eternal condemnation but if Thou will have mercy upon me and save me from my sins.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
No, σεσωκεν most single translated word would be "save" click here σεσωκεν
Also maybe a quote from Young's Literal Translation would help :
Luke 17:19 (YLT)
19 and he said to him, `Having risen, be going on, thy faith hath saved thee.'
How do you know if the 10 lepers died before the death of the testator? how do you know they died under the Mosaic Law and not the Law of Christ?
Indeed it was Christians Paul was talking to in Ephesus, By the Grace of God, through faith in His Son we are (they were) saved, so if we (like the one leper) obey Jesus the Christ and "all he commands" Matt 28:20 and give Glory to God, we (like the one leper) will be saved. and as Paul points out in Eph 2:8-9 not by following the Law (as did the 9 lepers).
signs were only to show the Gospel and its deliverer to be of God by His power.
Please provide a book chapter verse for the order above, it is not in any of the verses you have shown, your missing some steps,
Hear (righteous work) produces faith. Rom 10:17
Believe Heb 11:6
Repent Acts 3:19
Confess Romans 10:9-10
be baptized Mark 16:16
be faithful until death Rev 2:10
So, Hear-->faith-->obey-->saved
The 9 lepers were not saved, they had their leprosy cured.
All 10 lepers had faith or they would not have left to go to the priests, note that Jesus also instructed the Samaritan to do the same thing as the other 9, they all had "faith that Jesus would cleanse/cure them", but "faith alone" did not save them, the 1 Samaritan came back to "Glorify God" (a righteous work) and was σεσωκεν "saved"
Also maybe a quote from Young's Literal Translation would help :
Luke 17:19 (YLT)
19 and he said to him, `Having risen, be going on, thy faith hath saved thee.'
How do you know if the 10 lepers died before the death of the testator? how do you know they died under the Mosaic Law and not the Law of Christ?
Indeed it was Christians Paul was talking to in Ephesus, By the Grace of God, through faith in His Son we are (they were) saved, so if we (like the one leper) obey Jesus the Christ and "all he commands" Matt 28:20 and give Glory to God, we (like the one leper) will be saved. and as Paul points out in Eph 2:8-9 not by following the Law (as did the 9 lepers).
signs were only to show the Gospel and its deliverer to be of God by His power.
Please provide a book chapter verse for the order above, it is not in any of the verses you have shown, your missing some steps,
Hear (righteous work) produces faith. Rom 10:17
Believe Heb 11:6
Repent Acts 3:19
Confess Romans 10:9-10
be baptized Mark 16:16
be faithful until death Rev 2:10
So, Hear-->faith-->obey-->saved
The 9 lepers were not saved, they had their leprosy cured.
All 10 lepers had faith or they would not have left to go to the priests, note that Jesus also instructed the Samaritan to do the same thing as the other 9, they all had "faith that Jesus would cleanse/cure them", but "faith alone" did not save them, the 1 Samaritan came back to "Glorify God" (a righteous work) and was σεσωκεν "saved"
K
Also because a child loves unconditionally, and obeys what they are told to do.
I am not adding nothing to the word. It clearly says only through Jesus can one be saved, this is why the road is narrow.
Because by no other name can one call on to be saved by then Jesus Christ.
Jesus tells us the qualities and actions that will follow one who believes in Him. If one does not have these qualities and those actions don't follow they are not a true follower of Him, and therefore no salvation.
