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E
Ok let me try to explain it this way. Both our justification and our salvation are by the blood of Jesus. Our "good works" come about by the sanctifying work of the Holy Spirit living in us.
Those who "claim" to say they are saved but don't do any "good works" obviously don't have the Holy Spirit in them and thus are not truly saved. (These would be the "Christians" we see as falling away from God)
If we truly accept Jesus as our Lord and Saviour our "good works" will be shown thru our faith.
That is why Paul phrases Eph 2:8-10 the way he does. Notice how specific he is about his statement. By grace (from God) thru faith (gift of God) not by works (basically so we can't try to "fake" our way into heaven). He also adds that God has set apart good works for us (the sanctifying work of the Holy Spirit).
So it all ties together but it is by grace that we can have a "chance at being saved", but it is by faith only that we can be justified. Not by our works because then we could boast about how we saved ourselves. And Because God already knew who would accept Him he has set apart good works for us to do. God has a plan and nothing we do can stop that plan. God has no contingencies based upon what we do because He already knows everything.
Those who "claim" to say they are saved but don't do any "good works" obviously don't have the Holy Spirit in them and thus are not truly saved. (These would be the "Christians" we see as falling away from God)
If we truly accept Jesus as our Lord and Saviour our "good works" will be shown thru our faith.
That is why Paul phrases Eph 2:8-10 the way he does. Notice how specific he is about his statement. By grace (from God) thru faith (gift of God) not by works (basically so we can't try to "fake" our way into heaven). He also adds that God has set apart good works for us (the sanctifying work of the Holy Spirit).
So it all ties together but it is by grace that we can have a "chance at being saved", but it is by faith only that we can be justified. Not by our works because then we could boast about how we saved ourselves. And Because God already knew who would accept Him he has set apart good works for us to do. God has a plan and nothing we do can stop that plan. God has no contingencies based upon what we do because He already knows everything.
Here is a small list of required works by man (God did His part) now we must "obey" this :
Hear the Gospel
John. 20:30-31; Rom. 10:17
Believe
Rom. 1:16; Acts 18:8; Heb. 11:6
Repent
Lk. 13:3; 24:47; Acts 3:19; 17:30
Confess Faith in Christ
Rom. 10:9-10; Acts 8:37
Be Baptized
Mat. 28:19; Mk. 16:16; Acts 2:38; 10:47-48;
22:16; Rom. 6:1-6; Gal. 3:27; Col. 2:12;
1Pet. 3:21
Be Faithful Unto and Until Death
Mat. 25:21, 34; 2Pet. 1:1-11; Rev. 2:10;
1 John. 1:6-9
Now if you want to you can sit on the couch and hope God saves you, or you can read your bible (the provided verses are a good place to start) and obey His commands so because of His grace, "He will save you."
Hear the Gospel
John. 20:30-31; Rom. 10:17
Believe
Rom. 1:16; Acts 18:8; Heb. 11:6
Repent
Lk. 13:3; 24:47; Acts 3:19; 17:30
Confess Faith in Christ
Rom. 10:9-10; Acts 8:37
Be Baptized
Mat. 28:19; Mk. 16:16; Acts 2:38; 10:47-48;
22:16; Rom. 6:1-6; Gal. 3:27; Col. 2:12;
1Pet. 3:21
Be Faithful Unto and Until Death
Mat. 25:21, 34; 2Pet. 1:1-11; Rev. 2:10;
1 John. 1:6-9
Now if you want to you can sit on the couch and hope God saves you, or you can read your bible (the provided verses are a good place to start) and obey His commands so because of His grace, "He will save you."
E
Haha no fair but I have a solution. SoulWeaver is in Europe so I propose we meet in Scotland 
I'll figure a way to get you at least to Pittsburgh pa then go from there. I am sure we can talk soulweaver into it
Um I may need to win the lottery first but, since I don't play the lottery it might be a while lol
I'll figure a way to get you at least to Pittsburgh pa then go from there. I am sure we can talk soulweaver into it Um I may need to win the lottery first but, since I don't play the lottery it might be a while lol
E
Cool with me because all of those requires God's touch, the finished work of Jesus and the Holy Spirit. And with the three of them working on me that seems the perfect solution. And this solution would actually lead to the love of God in me and the Holy Spirit guiding me to do the works God had prepared for me in advance
K
I see what you are saying, and those that you explained in your first sentence would be those the Lord said their faith was based on a solid foundation, and then you build on that.
There is other groups on how the word is received that is given to us in the parable of the sower and the seed, and in this parable two of the groups where the seed was thrown on the rocky ground and in the thorns are given.
Jesus says that both these groups receive the word and walk in it, but the one who had the rocky ground they have no root for the faith and love to grow in them so their faith withers away. The one that was cast into the thorns are those who hear, receive, and follow the word, but when a hardship or trial happens in their life they falter for they let their worldly ways come before their faith.
These are the two groups that fall away for they are weak in the faith, and notice in this parable when you read it nowhere does it say they were never in the sheep fold before they fell. It says the opposite, they received and walked in it for a little while. Those who fall away have to be part of it first, before they can fall from it.
The seed that was sown along the path is the only one that shown to never have been part of the sheep fold.
The seed that was sown in good soil is the only one who has a strong foundation and accept and remain in the Lord.
So we can see here by the sower and the seed example that there are four groups on how the word is received, one has no salvation, two fall from grace/salvation, and the other gets salvation.
K
Haha no fair but I have a solution. SoulWeaver is in Europe so I propose we meet in Scotland I'll figure a way to get you at least to Pittsburgh pa then go from there. I am sure we can talk soulweaver into it
Um I may need to win the lottery first but, since I don't play the lottery it might be a while lol
I'll figure a way to get you at least to Pittsburgh pa then go from there. I am sure we can talk soulweaver into it Um I may need to win the lottery first but, since I don't play the lottery it might be a while lol
Be careful to because some on here look at playing the lottery a sin, and call you out on it...lol
you are explaining your opinion...and do not understand scripture...we are sanctified by the spirit but is our responsibility to remain sanctified....
1 Thessalonians 4:3
For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication:
1 Thessalonians 4:4
That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour;
ask Ananias and Sapphira.....are you saying they were not saved?....if they were not saved then they were not guilty of lying to the Holy Ghost...
5 But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession,
[SUP]2 [/SUP]And kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles' feet.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things.
Grace is not a chance....grace is a perfect work ...man who has to be saved through faith is the weak link in the equation
Man is not justified by faith alone...scripture says so...
James 2:24
Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
1 Thessalonians 4:3
For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication:
1 Thessalonians 4:4
That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour;
ask Ananias and Sapphira.....are you saying they were not saved?....if they were not saved then they were not guilty of lying to the Holy Ghost...
5 But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession,
[SUP]2 [/SUP]And kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles' feet.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things.
Grace is not a chance....grace is a perfect work ...man who has to be saved through faith is the weak link in the equation
Man is not justified by faith alone...scripture says so...
James 2:24
Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
E
Aint that amazing. Just more proof positive.
Those who believe recieve eternal life. because they have come to the light. and their works will be plainly seen. Those that do not beleive (as he said later, are condemned already, because they have not believed) remain in darkness, and their deeds will be siin.
SOunds just like what is saying, If you believe works will follow, if you do not believe (even if you CLAIM TO BELIEVE) you will not show works, because your still in the darkness (have not believed) it is all prety simple. but the legalists want to make it something it is not.
Those who believe recieve eternal life. because they have come to the light. and their works will be plainly seen. Those that do not beleive (as he said later, are condemned already, because they have not believed) remain in darkness, and their deeds will be siin.
SOunds just like what is saying, If you believe works will follow, if you do not believe (even if you CLAIM TO BELIEVE) you will not show works, because your still in the darkness (have not believed) it is all prety simple. but the legalists want to make it something it is not.
E
Mind if I ask what baptise church you went to? I gew up in a baptist church, I continued in that church even after I joined th emilitary and went to many baptist churches all around the US. And i have never heard what you claim.
I heard you do not go to church unless your dressed right, women do not cut their hair, men do not let their hair grow period, must Always be clean shaven. Hellfire and brimestone was preached almost every week. They would walk people out of the church they did not think fit their "legalistic mold of what a person should look like in "gods house"" there was so much judgment and hate when I went on visitation with anyone, I do not know how anyone could come to God (they wanted you to stop sin first, THEN you might be able to get saved) I could name you lists and lists of stuff which sicked me to the core of my being, and made me leave God for 5 years, Until God took me to my knees, and I was contemplating suicide because there was no hope left in me for anything (of Course I know God did that for a reason)
it was getting out of that church and having come back as the prodigal son, and finding a loving, caring, giving church that disciples its people (I did not even think I needed that, I knew the word, and studied it for many many years) in all areas, including confronting them with sin issues in a loving manner as Christ did, Making sure you had the help you needed to overcome sin. Actually went out and brought people to Christ and showed them the love CHrist showed when he walked the earth (I did not fathom how loving he really was) and finally really understood what Faith in God in ALL areas is. Which I never got from the baptist church.
Again I would love to know what churches you are talking about? I learned the importance of obedience in my current church, Not in the baptist church where all I heard was hellfire and brimestone, and how God will strike you down if you even look the wrong way at someone. I learned that how when you love others as God loved you. That was God being a light through you, and that love drew people to him (I see it every day and every week) and it is not about following some code of laws. but is about LOVE, TRUE LOVE, even to those who you would not normally love.
I was struck when a friend of mine I met in churhc told me what brought him to Christ is when he went to a home church and saw a Goth, A nerd, A valley Girl, A jock, and a western guy hanging out laughing and having a good time, Praising God, and you could tell they loved each other. You will never find that in the world, because in the world, they mock each other, they hate each other, they war with each other. But in Gods house, all people become one in Love and unity. There is no jew or greek (he finally understood what that meant) but all people are one in the eyes of God.
I do not live and relate with sinners, I live and relate with people who love God, Want to do all they can to better themselves and make themselves more like God so God can use them, because they have seen th epower of God in their own and others people lives (the reason for obedience)
I never saw that in a baptist church, A catholic church (yes I went to a few of them also) or other "denominational" churhc I have visited or had the time to attend.
legalism is not the answer, Love is. This is what I have experienced, And why I HATE LEGLALISM with a passion. I have witness countless number of people destroyed with legalism, and many not even give God a second look because of the legalistic approach many want to take when giving the gospel of God.
I heard you do not go to church unless your dressed right, women do not cut their hair, men do not let their hair grow period, must Always be clean shaven. Hellfire and brimestone was preached almost every week. They would walk people out of the church they did not think fit their "legalistic mold of what a person should look like in "gods house"" there was so much judgment and hate when I went on visitation with anyone, I do not know how anyone could come to God (they wanted you to stop sin first, THEN you might be able to get saved) I could name you lists and lists of stuff which sicked me to the core of my being, and made me leave God for 5 years, Until God took me to my knees, and I was contemplating suicide because there was no hope left in me for anything (of Course I know God did that for a reason)
it was getting out of that church and having come back as the prodigal son, and finding a loving, caring, giving church that disciples its people (I did not even think I needed that, I knew the word, and studied it for many many years) in all areas, including confronting them with sin issues in a loving manner as Christ did, Making sure you had the help you needed to overcome sin. Actually went out and brought people to Christ and showed them the love CHrist showed when he walked the earth (I did not fathom how loving he really was) and finally really understood what Faith in God in ALL areas is. Which I never got from the baptist church.
Again I would love to know what churches you are talking about? I learned the importance of obedience in my current church, Not in the baptist church where all I heard was hellfire and brimestone, and how God will strike you down if you even look the wrong way at someone. I learned that how when you love others as God loved you. That was God being a light through you, and that love drew people to him (I see it every day and every week) and it is not about following some code of laws. but is about LOVE, TRUE LOVE, even to those who you would not normally love.
I was struck when a friend of mine I met in churhc told me what brought him to Christ is when he went to a home church and saw a Goth, A nerd, A valley Girl, A jock, and a western guy hanging out laughing and having a good time, Praising God, and you could tell they loved each other. You will never find that in the world, because in the world, they mock each other, they hate each other, they war with each other. But in Gods house, all people become one in Love and unity. There is no jew or greek (he finally understood what that meant) but all people are one in the eyes of God.
I do not live and relate with sinners, I live and relate with people who love God, Want to do all they can to better themselves and make themselves more like God so God can use them, because they have seen th epower of God in their own and others people lives (the reason for obedience)
I never saw that in a baptist church, A catholic church (yes I went to a few of them also) or other "denominational" churhc I have visited or had the time to attend.
legalism is not the answer, Love is. This is what I have experienced, And why I HATE LEGLALISM with a passion. I have witness countless number of people destroyed with legalism, and many not even give God a second look because of the legalistic approach many want to take when giving the gospel of God.
well..the Gospel certainly has been watered down...
Hebrews 11:6
But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
E
well..the Gospel certainly has been watered down...
E
well..the Gospel certainly has been watered down...
We must now not say anything that could offend anyone. Well sorry but I don't play that game. Yes some Biblical truth is offensive because we want to be in control. Sorry but God is in control and nothing we do can save ourselves from damnation.
Galatians 5:4 (NKJV)
4 You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.
If salvation is by grace (nobody denies this), how can you say you cannot fall from this grace when the bible says you can?
Your man made doctrine hits a wall right here, you cannot claim they never had grace because you cannot fall away from something you were never in.
4 You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.
If salvation is by grace (nobody denies this), how can you say you cannot fall from this grace when the bible says you can?
Your man made doctrine hits a wall right here, you cannot claim they never had grace because you cannot fall away from something you were never in.