THE GREAT DEBATE...LAW AND GRACE

john832 · Jan 12, 2015

First of all, I don't think you know what the doctrines of the SDAs are. If you did, you would recognize that I am pretty far from an SDA but that is OK. As long as you are just spewing what you read somewhere instead of sound doctrine, go ahead with your vitriol.

Frankly, the SDAs are much closer to the truth than you are with your antinomian philosophy.

newbirth · Jan 12, 2015

haz said:

where in scripture do you see ...

if one is justified and sanctified permanently as you are trying to imply...then what is the purpose of the the epistles ...what happens if you sin???....are you still justified before God when you commit a sin ????are you set apart for holy use when you commit a sin???
1 Peter 1:2
Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

1 Thessalonians 4:3-5King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication:
[SUP]4 [/SUP]That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour;
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Not in the lust of concupiscence, even as the Gentiles which know not God:

sanctification in the scripture means set apart for holy use...what makes you think you are permanently sanctified?? have you not read about Ananias and Sapphira??? or Simon the sorcerer ???

one continues to be sanctified by obedience to the word...
Acts 20:32
And now, brethren, I commend you to God, and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up, and to give you an inheritance among all them which are sanctified.

you are forming your own doctrine to support your belief....

newbirth · Jan 12, 2015

Mitspa said:

by your understanding ....sin have no power over you ....because you are not under the law....but if you sin you are become under the law...and need grace to remove you from the power of sin......that is what you are now saying ...which is what I have been saying to you all along...

newbirth · Jan 12, 2015

haz said:

you misunderstand scripture...Christian cannot sin in the context of being in Christ...as long as you are abiding in Christ there is no sin in you and you cannot sin while abiding in Christ....except you be drawn away from him...
James 1:13-15King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
[SUP]14 [/SUP]But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

and here you are misusing scripture to suit your doctrine...

1 Peter 4:1King James Version (KJV)
4 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;

this scripture means ..those who deny the flesh it's lust has actually stopped sinning...not that you have somehow magically stopped sinning...

Galatians 5:18-26King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]18 [/SUP]But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
[SUP]23 [/SUP]Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

[SUP]25 [/SUP]If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.

when you say those scriptures you give the impression that you have forgotten we also have a body in which the HS resides and we are responsible for every act committed in that bod

1 Corinthians 6:18-20King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
[SUP]20 [/SUP]For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

then you are contending when a Christian sins...he is abiding in Christ with sin...and therefore can attain eternal life in sin...

you continue to misuse scripture...I see that you might be partakers....having escaped...that means you must escape first so that you MIGHT be a partaker of the divine nature....and he goes down in the chapter telling all the thing one must add to their faith to actually be a partaker of that nature...

2 Peter 1:3-5King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP]According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;

Mitspa · Jan 12, 2015

newbirth said:

So because you are a slave to sin the bible is not true? Sounds like the reasoning if a person in bondage to sin. The bible is true rather you can live in its truth or not? The reason some of you cannot understand the power a believer has over sin is because you have no understanding of what it means to walk in the Spirit.

Mitspa · Jan 12, 2015

Some understand only what it means to be a slave to sin and have no understanding of what it means to be a slave to righteousness.... We can know such people are in the flesh and cannot inherit the Kingdom if God.

Mitspa · Jan 12, 2015

john832 said:

Yea I see the relationship between your errors and those of Ellen G White. I would say you guys are cut from the same piece of filthy cloth.

passinthru · Jan 12, 2015

For now I am going to cease from discussing this topic with self righteous people who think they have no sin or that they will go straight to hell if they step out of line a little. This is not saying at all that I am condoning sin in the least God forbid! Those blinded by self-righteousness and have ears that will not hear the truth of God's word and it is difficult for them to see all that Christ did when he went to the cross. God is much bigger than what has been depicted here by some. I will pray for you all and trust that at some point you will see the truth and ut will set you free. There are too many out there in a lost and dyoing world who need Jesus for me to sit her eare argue with a bunch of self righteous pharasees. So may the peace of God that passes YOUR understanding comed upon you. You will be in my prayers. Too much stony ground here .

newbirth · Jan 12, 2015

Mitspa said:

you overshot with your response....I don't see a connection.....

by your understanding ....sin have no power over you ....because you are not under the law....but if you sin you are become under the law...and need grace to remove you from the power of sin......that is what you are now saying ...which is what I have been saying to you all along...

passinthru · Jan 12, 2015

passinthru said:

For now I am going to cease from discussing this topic with self righteous people who think they have no sin or that they will go straight to hell if they step out of line a little. This is not saying at all that I am condoning sin in the least God forbid! Those blinded by self-righteousness and have ears that will not hear the truth of God's word and it is difficult for them to see all that Christ did when he went to the cross. God is much bigger than what has been depicted here by some. I will pray for you all and trust that at some point you will see the truth and ut will set you free. There are too many out there in a lost and dyoing world who need Jesus for me to sit her eare argue with a bunch of self righteous pharasees. So may the peace of God that passes YOUR understanding comed upon you. You will be in my prayers. Too much stony ground here .

BTW I do confess that I was very tempted to jump into the flesh with the post above but the Holy Spirit checked me on it. No response needed to my post ... The truth needs no defense. My feet are dusted off.

Mitspa · Jan 12, 2015

Peter tells us about these kind if false believers who are cursed under the law and cannot cease from sin.. full of covetousness and eyes full if adultery... Just as Paul taught that the commandment not to covet produces all manner if evil lust and desires...these so-called law keepers are slaves of sin.

Mitspa · Jan 12, 2015

Mitspa said:

Peter also goes on to say these have forsaken the way of righteousness by faith and like a dog to its vomit have returned to the strength of sin (law) to wallow in their sins like a pig.

newbirth · Jan 12, 2015

Mitspa said:

did you ever sin after you were born again?

notuptome · Jan 12, 2015

john832 said:

Lost is lost. One false gospel is as good as any.

We are not saved by philosophy but by grace. We are saved the moment we receive Jesus Christ as our personal Savior. God deals with each soul on an individual basis. There are no group discounts.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Mitspa · Jan 12, 2015

Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.. How wonderful it is to know that you are forever saved by Gods mighty Grace ..and by this grace become a slave to righteousness! Oh that some of you would turn from your sin and become children of God.

john832 · Jan 12, 2015

notuptome said:

Actually we are begotten at this time. When one is truly saved at the resurrection then he CANNOT lose salvation.

john832 · Jan 12, 2015

Mitspa said:

Explain to me what sin is again?

passinthru · Jan 12, 2015

[SUP]1[/SUP] What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
[SUP]2[/SUP] For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
[SUP]3[/SUP] For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
[SUP]4[/SUP] Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
[SUP]5[/SUP] But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
[SUP]6[/SUP] Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
[SUP]7[/SUP] Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
[SUP]8[/SUP] Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
[SUP]9[/SUP] Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.
[SUP]10[/SUP] How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision.
[SUP]11[/SUP] And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:
[SUP]12[/SUP] And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.
[SUP]13[/SUP] For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.
[SUP]14[/SUP] For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:
[SUP]15[/SUP] Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.
[SUP]16[/SUP] Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

passinthru · Jan 12, 2015

Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.[SUP]2[/SUP] For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.
[SUP]3[/SUP] Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.
[SUP]4[/SUP] Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
[SUP]5[/SUP] One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
[SUP]6[/SUP] He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.
[SUP]7[/SUP] For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.
[SUP]8[/SUP] For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.
[SUP]9[/SUP] For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.
[SUP]10[/SUP] But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
[SUP]11[/SUP] For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
[SUP]12[/SUP] So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.
[SUP]13[/SUP] Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.
[SUP]14[/SUP] I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.
[SUP]15[/SUP] But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.
[SUP]16[/SUP] Let not then your good be evil spoken of:
[SUP]17[/SUP] For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
[SUP]18[/SUP] For he that in these things serveth Christ is acceptable to God, and approved of men.
[SUP]19[/SUP] Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.
[SUP]20[/SUP] For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence.
[SUP]21[/SUP] It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.
[SUP]22[/SUP] Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.
[SUP]23[/SUP] And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

Mitspa · Jan 12, 2015

john832 said:

Whatsoever is not of faith is sin....

THE GREAT DEBATE...LAW AND GRACE

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