55 Year Old Man Impregnates His 11 Year Old Granddaughter

[DiscipleDave]

Oh my. I can see there isn't actually any reasoning with you.

nope, what i know comes from God, He told me these things either in conversation with Him, through visions, dreams, or the two Angels that He sent to correct my path that i was walking. what i teach is the Truth, and is from God. So your right, there is no reasoning with me. Now if you can show Scriptures that is an entirely different story. But your right opinions will never be able to reason with the Truth.

You seem to know how YOU feel about the situation.

You seem to not understand what i have been saying at all. i have not been talking about the Situation at all, and have not relaid how i feel one way or the other, if you think i have then show where i have done that. i have though been very adamant who creates life? Who decides who will get pregnant and who will not get pregnant. That has nothing to do with how i FEEL about the situation. i have been saying over and over again, that God decides who will get pregnant and who will not get pregnant. And anyone who disagrees with that, has yet to answer my question "What then Does God NOT decide who will get pregnant and who will not" Has it not always been known through out thousands of years. that a person who is Barron (unable to have children) was cursed by God, and those who could have children were Blessed by God. Somehow with this last days generation it is not longer a curse or a Blessing from God at all. Just luck i guess, or unlucky for that matter, huh?

More power to ya. I will have it known though that I certainly never said I believed abortion was acceptable.

How is saying that abortion may be a part of God's plan, not saying that abortion may be acceptable to God. You say Abortion may be a part of God's plan then say that you never said that you believed abortion was acceptable. Well if it is a part of God's plan like you claim, how is that not acceptable? If it is a part of God's plan? Do you even know what you are saying sister? i don't say that in a mean way, i am really concerned that you don't know what you think, and therefore what you are saying contradicts what you have said earlier.

I said the decision is hers to make.

The decision is hers to make, just as it was the decision of the grandpa to do what he did as well. Both not Godly.

And that no matter what she decides, God can turn it to good.

It is True if she decides to keep the child, that God can turn it into a very good situation and Bless her abundantly.
But if she decides to kill the child, i guess the question would be WHY she is deciding to kill the child, if it is for selfish reasons Then i can't see God blessing her for killing her child. Are we not instructed to love one another? Where is the love for the unborn child? Woe to anyone who destroys what God is trying to make. a human LIFE.

I can't even begin to address everything in your post because it would take me hours and there'd be no fruit.

And i seriously appreciate that, i really do. Because i already know that most everything you would reply, would not be backed up by Scriptures but will be your own opinion, what you believe is the Truth. Now if you had some Scriptural references that show that killing children is OK, Well that is a different story.

I will say that "woe to this generation" is certainly not constructive. I wish you the best of luck on your condemnation path. I'll be praying for you.

Yeah, i can see how you would think that, anyone who teaches again sin, teaches not to obey satan, to LOVE ONE ANOTHER, not kill one another, how to those of this last days generation would deem that to be a condemnation path. Woe to those who love to sin, yeah that is not trying to warn people to stop sinning, i am just saying that because i am on a condemnation path. God forbid.
i will tell you the Truth and will not lie. Billion upon billions of Christians who will be condemned, will wish that they heard the person who taught how not to be condemned.
This generation wants to hear things that tickles there ears. you know, Once Saved, Always Saved, or Sin all you want your still SAVED. or its OK to kill children if they are not considered by man to be alive yet, even though they destroy the seed that will grow into a living Human being. Yeah they like to listen to anything that DOES NOT CONDEMN them.

^i^

 

[Mitspa]

Sounds like? we are being ask if this baby should be killed because of the evil of this man? No! evil never justifies more evil.

 

[DiscipleDave]

DiscipleDave said

It is never God's will that a parent terminates a child that will be born in 9 months. a parents does this because it is there will and not God's will. You still are not getting what i am saying.

This is your opinion that is extra-biblical (not in the bible). You're not God; Your ways are not His ways nor your thoughts His thoughts. You could say, "I don't think He would ever..." and that's fair, but to use an absolute blanketed statement makes you sound like you're either God Himself, or He personally said this to you, verbatim.

He has. i have not hid the Truth, even though many say i am crazy, or say i listen to devils and the such. what i teach is from God, it is not from my thoughts, or from my own studies, nor from my own opinions. When i say that God decides who will get pregnant and who will not, this is not something that i believe, it is something that i KNOW, how do i know? Because He told me this, among hundreds of other things, mostly what is to come. If you do not believe what i teach, it is not i that you disagree with, but Him who told me these things. God.

^i^

 

[DiscipleDave]

DiscipleDave said

It is God that decides if a person gets pregnant or not get pregnant.

Maybe I'm wrong here, but I think sex has to take place in order for a woman to get pregnant (not counting the immaculate conception of the Savior Jesus Christ). So seeing as it takes two people to have sex, wouldn't it be safe to say they are the first ingredients added to the recipe of creating a baby?

of course, but that does not change the FACT that God decides who will get pregnant and who will not get pregnant, WHEN ALL THE INGREDIENTS ARE PRESENT. Just because all the ingredients are present doesn't automatically = pregnant.

A couple could have sex and NOT conceive (lets say God purposely refuses to let the sperm fertilize the egg), nevertheless, they still need to have sex for the possibility of procreating. I'm NOT saying God doesn't have any control... in fact, I've never disagreed with God's involvement.

?. You seem to adamantly disagree with the statement "That God decides who will get pregnant and who will not get pregnant" yet now you say that God does have control. Which is it, either He has control of who gets pregnant or He doesn't. Hot or Cold?

^i^

 

[DiscipleDave]

DiscipleDave said

Getting pregnant or not getting pregnant has nothing at all to do with sin or not sinning. If you can grasp this simple Truth, then you will understand.

Can you copy/paste any context where I said "sin" and/or "not sinning" is related to "getting pregnant" or "not getting pregnant", for me please? I don't recall ever saying that...

Then i apologize for thinking you implied it.

^i^

 

[DiscipleDave]

DiscipleDave said

God creates life. Humans do not, devil does not, demons do not. ONLY God creates life.

God does, absolutely. He gave man the ability to procreate. So now, life can be created by God in conjunction with humans via the power of procreation (motherhood and fatherhood). That isn't to say God doesn't have the ability to take away (or not give in the first place) this gift/power to His children.

The ability to precreate has nothing to do with God deciding who will get pregnant and who will not.

^i^

 

[DiscipleDave]

DiscipleDave said

Is it not written that God knows us even before we are in the womb?

Yes, Jeremiah 1:5... a commonly misused scripture that somehow articulates how "life begins at conception".

"Before I formed thee in the bowels of thy mother, I knew thee: and before thou camest forth out of the womb, I sanctified thee, and made thee a prophet unto the nations."

One who is a prophet, merely has the gift of prophesy from the Holy Ghost. Jeremiah was not a prophet at the age of one. Are you suggesting that God ONLY knows those who are going to be prophets? Or does God KNOW ALL? Are you saying that God does NOT KNOW who will be this or who will be that?

^i^

 

[DiscipleDave]

First of all, this scripture does not apply to all humanity... if it was, then God ordained ALL of humanity to be prophets to the nations as this passage was in reference to THE PROPHET JEREMIAH. I pray you reread it in context. Second of all, it says "Before I formed thee"... How is this any indication that "life begins at conception?" To me, this shows that God knows things past, present, and future.

a form has a solid mass. consider:

Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. 2 And the earth was without form,(solid matter) and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

So before the Earth had FORM, it was a ball of water. NO SOLID.
Jeremiah before he had FORM, (solid matter) He was known of God, that is - the moment conception took place, before any cells produced another cell creating solid matter, form.
Now the question is will you accept this Truth or continue to believe that in your opinion shows that God knows things past, present, and future.?

^i^

 

[DiscipleDave]

DiscipleDave said

If a person goes to a clinic and gets pregnated from a test tube, it is still God who decides if that person will have a child or not, ONLY God. For some reason you are not, or not willing to grasp that Truth.

I understand and grasp that you think the human requirements/prerequisites are irrelevant, I just don't agree with you. The human prerequisites are: 1.) Man sells sperm to bank. 2.) Woman must go to sperm bank. 3.) Woman must have sperm injected/implanted in her. 4.) THEN God comes into play here. How is God going to create the life if the man and woman do none of those above steps? I suppose He COULD if He wanted to (He's God), but we aren't discussing that point...

You say above that you don't agree with me, what exactly is it that you do not agree with ? Have i said it does not require sperm? have i said that it does not require an egg cell? i have never said that it does not need these ingredients as you called it. i am, and have always been talking about the very moment a woman becomes pregnant, (Because the sperm cell entered into the egg cell) strange that i felt compelled to include what is obvious, but so you are not confused in thinking that there is some other way for a person to get pregnant. What i have been talking about is the moment a woman gets pregnant, is because God decides for that person to become pregnant. As i have said before, i am not talking about the situations that one might become pregnant, i have been, and still am talking about the conception, not how the ingredients got there, or by what means the ingredients were there. i am talking about what happens when the ingredients ARE there and Who decides if that woman will become pregnant or not, that a life, or a seed of that which will be a life, STARTS. i say God decides who will get pregnant and who will not get pregnant, do you agree with that or not agree with that. Because Truthfully i don't know what you are disagreeing with if you agree with that statement. enlighten me.

^i^

 

[DiscipleDave]

DiscipleDave said

Getting pregnant is an act of God. NOT how a person procreates to get there. It is God that decides if that persons egg cell will conceive. IF God does not want that person to have a child, that person will not have a child.

I agree, it is an act of God Thank God for his gift of procreation . The only difference is, I think "how a person procreates" goes hand-in-hand with a woman getting pregnant...

And how does what you think relate to the grandpa and eleven year old girl?

^i^

 

[DiscipleDave]

DiscipleDave said

i think you are stuck on the HOW that person became pregnant, as evil and sick as that is. While i am on the life that was created by God in that girl.

The life was created against the plan He designed in reference to the gift of procreation....

Again we are brought back to you think life is created by mere humans and NOT BY GOD. Your statement above indicates that God had nothing to do with the girl getting pregnant, that it was merely two humans having sexual relations to which the outcome was the girl became pregnant because of the act of copulation. You see, nothing to do with God at all, remove God out of the equation.
Here is my point. The girl could just as easily NOT became pregnant as to becoming pregnant. WHO decides? You seem to be teaching, LUCK or Bad LUCK, it just happens or it just don't happen.
So i see the big difference between what you believe and what i believe.
i know that all things happens because God allows it, or approves it. So the girl getting pregnant, God either allowed it, or approved it. Either way, it was God's choice to make.

Tell me, what happens that God does not allow, or approve? Anyone?

^i^

 

[DiscipleDave]

DiscipleDave said

That's like someone robbing a bank, stealing millions of dollars, and gives it to your daughter. Then the authorities catch the guy who robbed the bank and want to take the money back from your daughter. Are you going to argue and say, "Officer, you're stuck on HOW my daughter got the money, as evil and wrong as that is. I'm just focused on all the good I could do with the money given to her." Pretty convenient to not think about the HOW and focus only on the money... wouldn't you say?

Sure, unless the entire conversation is talking about the money, and NOT how it was obtained.

^i^

 

[hannahbeth1124]

nope, what i know comes from God, He told me these things either in conversation with Him, through visions, dreams, or the two Angels that He sent to correct my path that i was walking. what i teach is the Truth, and is from God. So your right, there is no reasoning with me. Now if you can show Scriptures that is an entirely different story. But your right opinions will never be able to reason with the Truth.



You seem to not understand what i have been saying at all. i have not been talking about the Situation at all, and have not relaid how i feel one way or the other, if you think i have then show where i have done that. i have though been very adamant who creates life? Who decides who will get pregnant and who will not get pregnant. That has nothing to do with how i FEEL about the situation. i have been saying over and over again, that God decides who will get pregnant and who will not get pregnant. And anyone who disagrees with that, has yet to answer my question "What then Does God NOT decide who will get pregnant and who will not" Has it not always been known through out thousands of years. that a person who is Barron (unable to have children) was cursed by God, and those who could have children were Blessed by God. Somehow with this last days generation it is not longer a curse or a Blessing from God at all. Just luck i guess, or unlucky for that matter, huh?



How is saying that abortion may be a part of God's plan, not saying that abortion may be acceptable to God. You say Abortion may be a part of God's plan then say that you never said that you believed abortion was acceptable. Well if it is a part of God's plan like you claim, how is that not acceptable? If it is a part of God's plan? Do you even know what you are saying sister? i don't say that in a mean way, i am really concerned that you don't know what you think, and therefore what you are saying contradicts what you have said earlier.



The decision is hers to make, just as it was the decision of the grandpa to do what he did as well. Both not Godly.



It is True if she decides to keep the child, that God can turn it into a very good situation and Bless her abundantly.
But if she decides to kill the child, i guess the question would be WHY she is deciding to kill the child, if it is for selfish reasons Then i can't see God blessing her for killing her child. Are we not instructed to love one another? Where is the love for the unborn child? Woe to anyone who destroys what God is trying to make. a human LIFE.



And i seriously appreciate that, i really do. Because i already know that most everything you would reply, would not be backed up by Scriptures but will be your own opinion, what you believe is the Truth. Now if you had some Scriptural references that show that killing children is OK, Well that is a different story.



Yeah, i can see how you would think that, anyone who teaches again sin, teaches not to obey satan, to LOVE ONE ANOTHER, not kill one another, how to those of this last days generation would deem that to be a condemnation path. Woe to those who love to sin, yeah that is not trying to warn people to stop sinning, i am just saying that because i am on a condemnation path. God forbid.
i will tell you the Truth and will not lie. Billion upon billions of Christians who will be condemned, will wish that they heard the person who taught how not to be condemned.
This generation wants to hear things that tickles there ears. you know, Once Saved, Always Saved, or Sin all you want your still SAVED. or its OK to kill children if they are not considered by man to be alive yet, even though they destroy the seed that will grow into a living Human being. Yeah they like to listen to anything that DOES NOT CONDEMN them.

^i^

I'm gonna be totally honest and tell you I've just stopped reading your comments, brother. Flat out, you don't come in love and you twist words. The way you capitalize Truth with everything you believe God has told you, and the tone in which you interact with your brothers and sisters suggests, and correct me if I'm wrong here, that no one else could possibly hear from God and hear something different from what you've heard? I applaud your conviction, but your delivery and compassion are lacking.

I definitely know what I say. You just have a real nack for picking words to twist. I didn't say God liked abortion. He certainly doesn't like murder or theft but he ALLOWS them and finds ways to bring those situations to good. Just as he could with an abortion. Had you bothered to talk to, rather than AT your brothers and sisters, you may have understood that a bit better. I'm sad for you. You're really missing out on the fellowship that can come from a two sided conversation. Not one word I've said says it's alright to kill children. It wasn't alright when Saul killed Christians. Didn't God use that in His plan in the end? Scripture is a wonderful resource for the children of God, but his Word is written in our hearts and His creation that surrounds us. Even Satan quoted scripture, dear. And given the way you actually said the mothers motives would be the deciding factor on whether or not this girl could ever be blessed by God shows me how little you've been shown a full picture. I'm sure Saul had only the purest motives for torturing and killing Christians, right? That's why God blessed him? Hardly...


Let me guess... Self-taught bible scholar?

And I just can't help but giggle at the staggering irony I'm faced with when reading your signature, and comparing it to your actual interactions with your fellow Christians. I will avidly pray for your eyes to be opened and for your heart to be filled with compassion.

 

[hannahbeth1124]

Oh and another thing that may be useful to you:

Copulate - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary


Procreate - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

 

[DiscipleDave]

DiscipleDave said

What do you think grandpa can create a life. All grandpa can do is give of his seed. What do you think that girl can create life? All she can do is provide the egg. Know you not it is GOD that creates life. That is what i am talking about.

Nope. The Grandpa and granddaughter could only procreate in conjunction with God.

Are you serious? if that was the case, the girl would never have gotten pregnant. And how is a grandpa and a granddaughter procreating could ever be in conjunction with God? A grandpa and a granddaughter procreating is in conjunction with satan, NOT God.

You say nope, above , could you please tell me which part of what i said that you are saying nope too.

What do you think grandpa can create a life. Is this what you said NOPE too?
All grandpa can do is give of his seed. Is this what you said NOPE too?
What do you think that girl can create life? Is this what you said NOPE too?
All she can do is provide the egg. Is this what you said NOPE too?
Know you not it is GOD that creates life. Is this what you said NOPE too?
Or are you saying NOPE to ALL of them?

^i^

 

[hannahbeth1124]

DiscipleDave said



Are you serious? if that was the case, the girl would never have gotten pregnant. And how is a grandpa and a granddaughter procreating could ever be in conjunction with God? A grandpa and a granddaughter procreating is in conjunction with satan, NOT God.

You say nope, above , could you please tell me which part of what i said that you are saying nope too.

What do you think grandpa can create a life. Is this what you said NOPE too?
All grandpa can do is give of his seed. Is this what you said NOPE too?
What do you think that girl can create life? Is this what you said NOPE too?
All she can do is provide the egg. Is this what you said NOPE too?
Know you not it is GOD that creates life. Is this what you said NOPE too?
Or are you saying NOPE to ALL of them?

^i^

Ha! Are YOU serious? This contradicts literally everything you've said so far....

 

[DiscipleDave]

DiscipleDave said

Brother, i understand what exercising free will means, But if one gets pregnant has nothing to do with free will at all, that is what you are not understanding, nor hearing what i am saying.

How does it have nothing to do with free will at all? The grandpa was FORCED to have sex with his granddaughter? I'm pretty sure he abused his free will...

Seriously, how old are you, i can't help but feel, i am speaking to someone very young. You are still not hearing me, nor understanding.

Did the girl choose (free will) to become pregnant? Yes or No?
Do you see how there was not free will on the girls part at all about her becoming pregnant? Do you see that? yes or no?
Did the grandpa freely choose that the girl get pregnant? Yes or No? Sure the 1% chance was there, or maybe he didn't think she could get pregnant at all at age 11. my point is you keep talking about free will, free will, free will. Yet the grandpa given the free will choice, would never have chosen for the girl to get pregnant. The girl at age 11 would not have freely chose to become pregnant either. Are you not yet understanding my statement that it had nothing to do with free will concerning her getting pregnant. Sure he had free will to choose to have sexual relations with her, but her becoming pregnant has nothing to do with free will. If you are too young to grasp what i am talking about, i feel i may be wasting my time on this subject with you. how many times can i say the same Truths over again. moving on, love you brother.

^i^

 

[Colorful]

i have been saying over and over again, that God decides who will get pregnant and who will not get pregnant. And anyone who disagrees with that, has yet to answer my question "What then Does God NOT decide who will get pregnant and who will not"

I deeply apologize. I don't understand what you're asking. Can you rephrase it so I can understand what it is you're asking please?

Has it not always been known through out thousands of years. that a person who is Barron (unable to have children) was cursed by God, and those who could have children were Blessed by God. Somehow with this last days generation it is not longer a curse or a Blessing from God at all. Just luck i guess, or unlucky for that matter, huh?

You know who else people in history have thought were "cursed"? Anyone who uses a "curse word". It's sad that back then, they culturally viewed barren women as "cursed". I ask that you separate man's views from God's views. There are a multitude of reasons why being barren should/should never have been considered a "curse".

1.) One does not have to have a "biological child" to be a mother or father. If being "barren" was truly a curse, do adoptive parents not receive the same blessings that biological parents receive? If anything, one could argue it's more pragmatic... A couple unable to have biological children could be adopting the 11 year old girl's child!!! lol

2.) Barren is almost always associated with the female sex. Back then, they just assumed it was something wrong with the woman. How are you so certain the woman is "cursed" and the man is not "sterile"?

How is saying that abortion may be a part of God's plan, not saying that abortion may be acceptable to God. You say Abortion may be a part of God's plan then say that you never said that you believed abortion was acceptable. Well if it is a part of God's plan like you claim, how is that not acceptable? If it is a part of God's plan? Do you even know what you are saying sister? i don't say that in a mean way, i am really concerned that you don't know what you think, and therefore what you are saying contradicts what you have said earlier.

I find it ironic you blast her for "not knowing what she is saying" when Shakespeare is easier to read than some of your sentences (just kidding, kind of).

One could say, "I think abortion may or may not be apart of God's plan" without ever actually saying, "I believe abortion is acceptable". Obviously, the abortion being acceptable is DEPENDENT on if it is in God's plan... No?

 

[DiscipleDave]

Sounds like? we are being ask if this baby should be killed because of the evil of this man? No! evil never justifies more evil.

If people in this generation would know this one simple Truth, they would not be so quick to kill unborn children. And that Truth is. God creates LIFE. NOT humans. True God gave humans the ability to procreate, but it is God who decides who will get pregnant and who will not get pregnant. If people would believe that Truth, abortions would cease. But as long as they think humans can create life, the killing will continue, because an unborn child does not have LIFE.

^i^

 

[Colorful]

Sounds like? we are being ask if this baby should be killed because of the evil of this man? No! evil never justifies more evil.

That is the poll question. However, there was another, equally (if not more important) question I wanted clarity on seeing as this is a bible discussion thread (that being Exodus 21:22-25). If you didn't see/read it, I'll ask again on here.

Understanding Exodus 21:22-25 would actually put into question whether aborting the fetus (in a hypothetical scenario) is actually "evil". How can you "kill" something that isn't "living"?