Heartbroken and Filing for divorce

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NewWine

Guest
#21
There was a man in Kentucky. A coal miner with a loving wife, many children and many blessings. This man drank, cussed, hit his wife and children....just a nasty man. His wife stayed through many indiscretions, many times of abuse, many heart breaks. People in the area knew this man's ways. They knew the wife's disappointment and heartbreak. They knew their children's fear and pain. They kept telling the woman to take the kids, leave and never turned back. The woman prayed. This went on for years....at least 20.
One night the man came to God on his knees. I can't say what brought him there, but he did it. He made the choice to change, and change he did. The men in the mines knew of his past, and didn't believe he had changed. They knew what to say to anger him, and they tried. They taunted him until he did indeed snap. He let his anger fly and said some horrible things. He realized what he had done, and he instantly hit his knees in prayer asking forgiveness of God. The other men were almost in shock I hear. This man went on to study God, learning as much as possible. He changed. He became a loving husband who doted on his wife, and over time the wife began to trust his sincerity. His children began to slowly start coming around again (by this time most were grown and on their own now). He slowly started rebuilding his life and family.
That man went on to become a preacher, teaching others how to overcome any obstacle......He was my grandpa, and without that past, without that change and without that rebuilding.....I might not be here at all.
All things are possible......Praying for you no matter how you choose to continue here.
 
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kaylagrl

Guest
#22
There was a man in Kentucky. A coal miner with a loving wife, many children and many blessings. This man drank, cussed, hit his wife and children....just a nasty man. His wife stayed through many indiscretions, many times of abuse, many heart breaks. People in the area knew this man's ways. They knew the wife's disappointment and heartbreak. They knew their children's fear and pain. They kept telling the woman to take the kids, leave and never turned back. The woman prayed. This went on for years....at least 20.
One night the man came to God on his knees. I can't say what brought him there, but he did it. He made the choice to change, and change he did. The men in the mines knew of his past, and didn't believe he had changed. They knew what to say to anger him, and they tried. They taunted him until he did indeed snap. He let his anger fly and said some horrible things. He realized what he had done, and he instantly hit his knees in prayer asking forgiveness of God. The other men were almost in shock I hear. This man went on to study God, learning as much as possible. He changed. He became a loving husband who doted on his wife, and over time the wife began to trust his sincerity. His children began to slowly start coming around again (by this time most were grown and on their own now). He slowly started rebuilding his life and family.
That man went on to become a preacher, teaching others how to overcome any obstacle......He was my grandpa, and without that past, without that change and without that rebuilding.....I might not be here at all.
All things are possible......Praying for you no matter how you choose to continue here.
While your story turned out to be a wonderful story I know a woman who almost lost her life in the same type of abusive relationship.It is not a good idea to ever encourage a woman to stay in an abusive relationship. Women have bruises ,broken bones,acid thrown in their face and set on fire by enraged partners.God can move with her in a safe place as much as he can with her staying in the relationship.
 
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fadingheart

Guest
#23
I don't know if it's mental illness or not but when we are okay and he is not angry he is aware and very kind. However, when he is angry there's a dark presence that overtakes him, it is bone chilling. The anger has escalated throughout the years even though he's been working with a counselor it doesn't help him. I know it sounds crazy but there have been several times I felt it could be demon oppression or posession and I've read the bible a few times where it seemed God kept giving me scripture on demon posession. He gets angry and starts acting very scary and crazy and little things can tick him off. There was one time in the car where he was angry and I was very afraid he started talking to himself in 3rd person and putting himself down like someone was talking out of him. S you are stupid, S see I told you she wouldn't believe you. S is my husband's name. As long as he isn't angry he seems to be okay.
 

jogoldie

Senior Member
Mar 20, 2014
1,616
48
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#24
I would not ever tell anyone what to do in their marriage....but since I have my own experience with
what you are going through....... I am on the other side of this......I'm at peace.....I like myself and my
life......which is truly all anyone really wants.....God helped make my living nightmare into where I am now.....with Him ....My husband did finally become happy.......but he didn't start to get better until I left.....some of us can't come to God until there is no where else to go......anger and violence needs
an outlet.....a target.....what actually happened was we were both blocking our way to God......
Anything.....Anyone....who gets in your way to God must be removed.....Trust that God will put
the right person in his life to show him....but it can't be you.....take care of you.......and your
children......get to a safe place .....get peace.....meditate and follow Gods direction........
Hand this over to God and get out of His way........and in the future if Gods Plan for you is to get back together.....then that is what will be......my pm is open for you young sister.....I'm a pm away.......I will
answer any question you have......peace and love......jo
 
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NewWine

Guest
#25
lol I didn't encourage her to do anything....If you had read my other post (right above it) and not just overreacted to that one story of God's redemption, then you would know that NO ONE can tell her what to do here. I encouraged her to do what's right for her.....not what's right for me, or you or anyone else.
 
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kaylagrl

Guest
#26
I don't know if it's mental illness or not but when we are okay and he is not angry he is aware and very kind. However, when he is angry there's a dark presence that overtakes him, it is bone chilling. The anger has escalated throughout the years even though he's been working with a counselor it doesn't help him. I know it sounds crazy but there have been several times I felt it could be demon oppression or posession and I've read the bible a few times where it seemed God kept giving me scripture on demon posession. He gets angry and starts acting very scary and crazy and little things can tick him off. There was one time in the car where he was angry and I was very afraid he started talking to himself in 3rd person and putting himself down like someone was talking out of him. S you are stupid, S see I told you she wouldn't believe you. S is my husband's name. As long as he isn't angry he seems to be okay.

"As long as he isn't angry he seems to be ok". Lets explore that alright? What makes him angry or triggers him? He seems to get abusive quickly, you've said that before. Has he ever hit you? Does he blackout during these times? Does he break things when he's angry? You said he sped with children in the car? Does this sound like a reasonable person in any way? It sure doesn't to me. From what I hear you saying he sounds like a very controlling and difficult person to live with.It seems he changes quickly in his mood swings.Im not a professional but he sounds bipolar.Either way he needs help and you need to be safe.He may make the changes he needs if you leave the relationship,but he may get violent.I would be very careful what you decide to do.
 
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kaylagrl

Guest
#27
lol I didn't encourage her to do anything....If you had read my other post (right above it) and not just overreacted to that one story of God's redemption, then you would know that NO ONE can tell her what to do here. I encouraged her to do what's right for her.....not what's right for me, or you or anyone else.

I didnt overreact.The story was an example of an abusive relationship that turned out very well,and that is great.But its not a good example for women to follow.Thats all I was saying.That isn't overreacting.
 
Aug 10, 2013
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#28
Hello, Fadingheart

You mention the event below and say you left him but you do not mention any periods. How long did you leave him for? When he apparently improved in his conduct/ behaviour towards you, how long did this period last before he returned to his 'nasty' self?

The issue of taking condoms into the car seemingly points towards some type of affair. However, a smarter guy would buy condoms elsewhere if that were the case. You say he watched/ watches porn, so he may instead have taken the condoms to masturbate in the car. It seems more likely it was some type of relationship than anything else, on the limited facts you give.

There are several main issues as I see them. There are the issues of his suicide, violence and emotional abuse, and his thieving. Dealing with the suicide issue, there has been a suicide attempt or threat, which also has a history of attempted suicide in the family (ie his mom's attempt to take her life and his/ other siblings). This is a priority. Consider whether he is a threat to you and your children. Would he ever think of or actually attempt to take you and or your children's lives? It is possible that the suicide leanings opened him up to some trauma, or in spiritual terms, something was opened in the spiritual realm that night when his mom tried to attempt to take her life along with his family's. The alternative is that his mom and he share the same blood line of suicide leanings, of which is likely to have gone back many generations. No matter what there is a problem here and this needs to be sorted. Consider whether his threats of suicide are his way of controlling you, in kind a type of emotional blackmail. Remedy: He needs to be counselled - but you could be correct in that a dark spirit may be affecting his generational blood line. Therefore consider seriously demanding that he needs some spiritual ministry from a qualified person in the church.

The manipulation and violence aggression towards you indicates he could still pose a threat to you. This could be dealt with using counselling or he may have spiritual problems that need church input.

The thieving is also a serious issue. Why does he need to thieve, is this some type of compulsive thing?
 

blue_ladybug

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2014
70,869
9,601
113
#29
To put it bluntly, your husband needs major psychiatric counseling and evaluation. He is physically abusive, he is a danger not only to himself, but to you and your children. And society in general. Whatever dark force is affecting him certainly has a good grip on him, if he is indeed demon-possessed. However, I think this is more a case of mental illness or split personalities. What if he flies into a rage, blacks out and happens to injure, or even worse, KILL one of your kids? That happens, you know. Or what if he kills YOU? Then your kids are motherless and left with an abusive father who flips out over minor things. You need to get yourself out of that house and take the kids with you. Before you ALL end up injured, or worse. Don't procrastinate on it, leave and get away from this insanity.
 
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fadingheart

Guest
#30
We've separated where I would stay at my parents trying to work on the marriage but it's been going on for almost two years now. As for the condoms it's hard to say because he's lied so much but the text message and one time I asked to see his phone and he said he had deleted all text messages. He said he never met another woman but when we argued he would go to the coffee shop or barnes and nobles. He says he did all this stuff because he was depressed from losing his father and moving here where he had no one. I wish I had concrete proof if he was unfaithful because that would make it much easier for me to leave with good conscience. I am separated and he doesn't show anger to my kids it's more me and the kids have been with me most of the time. He'll just come see them for a few hours. I have told him that if I feel it's the last resort I will file for divorce if I feel nothing has changed and he's even agreed it's for the best. I don't know if he's saying it but he can also be very prideful. He said that if I divorce he would just pack up his things and move back to Cali. His anger seems to be only at me. He can get frustrated with the kids sometimes and lose patience but thank goodness he doesn't abuse them. I think he thinks me leaving him is abandoning him but I am not. It's not what I want but sometimes what we want is not good for us. I have tried counseling, begging him to see my side, trying to get him to read the bible and pray but if he has no desire there's nothing I can do. Only God can change his heart if he truly wants to change. The threats of suicide seem to be more manipulation tactics but I do worry about that.
 

blue_ladybug

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2014
70,869
9,601
113
#31
We've separated where I would stay at my parents trying to work on the marriage but it's been going on for almost two years now. As for the condoms it's hard to say because he's lied so much but the text message and one time I asked to see his phone and he said he had deleted all text messages. He said he never met another woman but when we argued he would go to the coffee shop or barnes and nobles. He says he did all this stuff because he was depressed from losing his father and moving here where he had no one. I wish I had concrete proof if he was unfaithful because that would make it much easier for me to leave with good conscience. I am separated and he doesn't show anger to my kids it's more me and the kids have been with me most of the time. He'll just come see them for a few hours. I have told him that if I feel it's the last resort I will file for divorce if I feel nothing has changed and he's even agreed it's for the best. I don't know if he's saying it but he can also be very prideful. He said that if I divorce he would just pack up his things and move back to Cali. His anger seems to be only at me. He can get frustrated with the kids sometimes and lose patience but thank goodness he doesn't abuse them. I think he thinks me leaving him is abandoning him but I am not. It's not what I want but sometimes what we want is not good for us. I have tried counseling, begging him to see my side, trying to get him to read the bible and pray but if he has no desire there's nothing I can do. Only God can change his heart if he truly wants to change. The threats of suicide seem to be more manipulation tactics but I do worry about that.


Like I told mystikmind, if God closes a door for you, stop banging on it, because what's on the other side isn't meant for you anymore. This seems to be a one-sided marriage, and it seems like he doesn't care really whether you divorce him or not. One thing is crystal clear, he needs counseling. Whether it's grief counseling or psychiatric counseling, he needs it. The threats of suicide may indeed be a ploy for attention, but with his present state of mind, I would be very careful because he might just do it, especially if the voices in his head tell him to. It's obvious he isn't going to change, nor has any desire to do so. There comes a time when you need to stop beating the dead horse, and accept that maybe this is God's way of telling you he has something better in store for all of you.
 
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fadingheart

Guest
#32
Thank you. I have my family supporting me so that helps.
 
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mystikmind

Guest
#33
I don't think i need to add anymore to the side for divorcing than what has already been posted so far, but of course those are all very important things to consider, especially for safety's sake (including the safety of the heart and mind).

I will say this though, it is encouraging to hear he does not abuse the kids, but then on the other hand, there is a big difference between not abusing the kids and being a good father?

Also another thing to consider is the counseling itself. I have heard allot of stories about people who went to counseling for various reasons and it never helped, but then by chance they went to see a different counselor and that is when everything changed! Therapists are people too, and perhaps it is just a matter of finding one with the right personality and attitude to really help your husband?
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
9,090
1,751
113
#34
I have told him that if I feel it's the last resort I will file for divorce if I feel nothing has changed and he's even agreed it's for the best. I don't know if he's saying it but he can also be very prideful. He said that if I divorce he would just pack up his things and move back to Cali.
You'd mentioned in the OP something that indicated that you were upset at his going along with it when you suggested divorce. I know some women do that-- suggest divorce, but then get hurt when the other spouse says 'okay.' From a male perspective, that's kind of messed up-- why would a woman be upset or hurt at her spouse for saying 'okay' to a divorce that she suggested? If she doesn't want a divorce, why suggest it? Men sometimes operate under the foolish assumption that their wives know exactly what they want and don't have mixed emotions about these things.

His anger seems to be only at me. He can get frustrated with the kids sometimes and lose patience but thank goodness he doesn't abuse them. I think he thinks me leaving him is abandoning him but I am not. It's not what I want but sometimes what we want is not good for us. I have tried counseling, begging him to see my side, trying to get him to read the bible and pray but if he has no desire there's nothing I can do. Only God can change his heart if he truly wants to change. The threats of suicide seem to be more manipulation tactics but I do worry about that.
If you moved out of the house and told him you wanted a divorce, then you did leave him. He may be messed up in a lot of ways, but that doesn't mean that you didn't leave him. I don't think you need to be in a hurry to divorce, either. The US does have legal separation so you can file taxes separately and all that stuff.

The Bible says, "but if she departs, let her remain unmarried and be reconciled to her husband" and "he that marries her that is divorced commits adultery." If you live separately, you can leave the door open for reconciliation. If what you really want is for him to change, that makes a lot more sense. It might lessen the temptation for him to go out and find someone else. The emotional blow might be less to both of you if it's a separation for a while, and you could go to counseling together. If you don't plan to remarry (and after all, the Bible doesn't say you can if your husband lies, hits you with a towel, and wipes poop on you, as nasty as that is), then agreeing not to get a divorce could be a wise course of action. It could also alleviate his concern that you may go out and find someone else.

If he has anger management problems, if he'd admit it to himself, I hear that World Challenge has programs for men and women where people with substance abuse and anger management problems go and receive ministry. It's a long program and knocks them out of work for a while. I know that their sister organization, Teen Challenge has had really, really high success rates that put secular programs to shame. It's a very Christ-centered program, where people are taught to trust in Christ for deliverance from addictions and sins. I don't know that much about the inner workings. I just heard of it and had a conversation with a man who went there for anger management, but left early to get back to work and support his family.

If you did opt for separation and really talk it out and both be in agreement that you would be faithful, I'm thinking of I Corinthians 7 where it says to prevent fornication let every woman have her own husband and every man have his own wife. Separation doesn't do much for those needs, and neither one gets 'due benevolence.' Maybe 'conjugal visits' could be help with that. You could think and pray about that.

It takes two to do this, but I've also read that some unpublished surveys show that far less than 1% of marriages where husband and wife pray together regularly end in divorce. Couples who profess to be evangelical Christians divorce at about the same rate as the general society in the US according to Barna surveys. Those who go to church regularly divorce at 20% less than the average population. Those are some things to think about if you do want to work on the marriage.

In my own experience, a key to getting over conflict with my wife in the past was humbling ourselves, praying together, and confessing sins.

And also remember that I Peter 3's instructions to wives whose husbands don't obey the word is to submit to them that they might be one by their wives lifestyles. If you had married a secular atheist who lied, that is to be expected. And the Bible doesn't urge wives in that situation to leave their husbands. It doesn't say to divorce if you can't trust your husband.

As a professing believer though, church discipline is a relevant issue if he's a liar. Unfortunately, church discipline seems to be a largely forgotten doctrine in churches today, but you could talk to leaders in your church.

If what you really want is for your husband to repent and for you to have a strong happy marriage together, then believe God for that. Don't set the bar low and believe God to do nothing.

Look what Jesus told His disciples in Mark 11:24
Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.

I've got two questions:

What do you want?
What should you want?

If you want something that is in line with God's revealed will, pray for that. If you want your husband to repent, then believe God for that.

If you want something that is not in line with God's will, then pray for your desires to line up with it.

Some people say when you pray, you can't violate someone else's free will. The Bible doesn't actually teach a doctrine of free will. There are passages that seem to fit with a free perspective, but also passages about people being predestined. But the Bible doesn't teach us to limit our faith when we pray by the doctrine of free will. It teaches us to believe God.

So when you intercede for your husband pray like a Calvinist who is somehow convinced that the person he is praying for is one of the elect.
 
Nov 30, 2013
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#35
Sorry that this post is going to be long and I appreciate those that take the time to read it. My husband and I have been married for 8 years with two kids. It started as a long distance relationship and he eventually left everyone to move closer to me. He lost his father a couple months after and our marriage went downhill. We moved in together before marriage and I think it was because my father was so emotionally abusive and dumb me thought moving together would solve problems. I found out he lied about losing his job but still married him. On our wedding day I cried because his mom and parents fought and the day before I had a feeling I shouldn't have gotten married to him like it would be a bad idea. He gave me this very scary look which I feel he's demon possessed and you will see why later. After we got married things were okay and he was saying how he wanted a closer relationship with God but then I found out he was looking at porn, had a secret bank account, deleting text messages. Everytime we argued he abandoned me he says he never cheated but one time he left the house and slept in the car and when I went in the car it smelled fishy. Condoms went missing but he still insists he never cheated and one time there was a text message that said love and miss you. We argued and I would go to my parents and he would act as if I didn't exist and wasn't his wife. We had a daughter together. When I came back it seemed he had different moves when we were intimate. I still never had concrete proof of him cheating. Fast forward we were staying at my aunts place and electricity got shut off, bills weren't being paid. I found out my husband had lied about paying the bills. The cycle continued we would argue and he would leave the house.

My husband was a youth leader and knows ALOT about the bible however he doesn't live it. Anyways we got into arguments and he would start calling me the bword. There was tax refund money we were supposed to get and he said the bank was holding it. He went as far as to forge documents like he was talking to these people even pretending to call them. I found out he was lying and had tried to take the money. Now arguments were still going on because he gave me even more reason not to trust him. He would take a knife into the bathroom and said he was going to hurt himself, I always tried to reassure him but was scared, he said he was going to commit suicide by jumping into the water. We were homeless twice and the second time I was able to contact social services when he was about to give up. He would often talk about how he heard the devil and one time he hit himself in the face a couple times. When we were homeless we had to stay in a hotel and I found out he had been stealing from his boss. His boss found out and wanted to take him to jail but we prayed hard that night. He was crying like I've never seen before and God spared him. Eventually we moved into another place and the lies continued. He would take money from our account out whenever he got mad and went and gambled it, he stole from my purse. He was very verbally and emotionally abusive and one time he took a wrench to smash my work phone so I separated. We talked during our separation and there was a period of time where it seemed things were getting better that he wanted a real relationship and our marriage to work. Eventually I came back but the lies continued and emotional abuse got worse we were doing so bad financially that we had to sell our car and was carless for a year. I was able to get us into a ways2work program which allowed us to get a car and I also got him started on working from home. I stood by this man through so much. Anyways after him lying I lost complete trust in him. He lied about anything and everything. He lied about buying me something from Amazon and it never came and he made up a fake email about it. When we argued he got worse and angrier calling me the bword, cword, etc. We eventually started going to church and things seemed to be getting better, finances, etc but whenever he got mad he was like someone else. One time he took a cup of ice water from a fast food place (big one) and threw it at me, another time he took a towell and hit me repeatedly in the face with it and the last time I tried to leave him he stepped in dog poop in the back yard and wiped it on me forcing me back in the house. When he's angry it's like the devil, he speaks in 3rd person and does dumb stuff. I have said I was going to divorce a couple times but never went through with it. I am now serious, this last time while I thought he was "waiting for me to come back home" I found out he was out drinking and partying and doing things that he knows would hurt and break my trust. When we separated I was always a stranger to him. I took measures and moved some of my stuff out hoping it would wake him up but nope so now it's divorce. I feel that I have tried all I could and my hope is that he will come to know God and whatever demon is in him will leave. I have hope because just a few days before things got really bad he was talking about marriage retreat and how he didn't want to lose me. His words seem to be all talk. I have been emotionally damaged and all I want is for my husband to work on fixing it but he doesn't. Instead he makes it worse. My question is how do guys normally act when confronted with divorce? My husband seems like he's fine with it and just waiting for me to serve him. It hurts because I remember the things he said but it seems like I'm a complete stranger, could it be he never loved me at all? I found out a few days ago that my husband's mom had attempted to commit suicide with him and all the kids when they were younger. She had them tied and was wanting to jump. I thank you for listening and any advice, prayers, etc would be appreciated.




Fadingheart,



Truly this is a heart wrenching story. The truth be told, most marriages are mates but not matches. Many people are together whom God never sanctioned to marry. We most times we believe God has placed us with certain people in our lives to marry but find out most times its not true and that we were listening to the voice of Satan and not God. God is not nor ever has been divided against Himself. He tells us what love is and to wait on Him and that He would give us the desires of our hearts when we abide in Him. When we abide in Him, our desires will become the desires he desires for us and only then will we have a clear understanding of what love is and that He will guide us to our matches that are made in heaven. God says, "The heart is desperately wicked and deceitful above all things, who can know the heart but God." Jeremiah 17:9

Bail out before you end up going further down the tubes or end up in prison for a immature judgment he made that could cost you your life.

From what I have read of your post, he does not have an honest bone in his body. Until he takes responsibility for his actions, he won't be any good to himself or anyone else. Some people aren't marriage material no matter how you slice it.


That voice that made you uncomfortable the day before your marriage, was the voice of God warning you because He knows the end from the beginning. What is the harm in bailing out now..God was already waring you from the beginning.
 
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mystikmind

Guest
#36
Fadingheart,



Truly this is a heart wrenching story. The truth be told, most marriages are mates but not matches. Many people are together whom God never sanctioned to marry. We most times we believe God has placed us with certain people in our lives to marry but find out most times its not true and that we were listening to the voice of Satan and not God. God is not nor ever has been divided against Himself. He tells us what love is and to wait on Him and that He would give us the desires of our hearts when we abide in Him. When we abide in Him, our desires will become the desires he desires for us and only then will we have a clear understanding of what love is and that He will guide us to our matches that are made in heaven. God says, "The heart is desperately wicked and deceitful above all things, who can know the heart but God." Jeremiah 17:9

Bail out before you end up going further down the tubes or end up in prison for a immature judgment he made that could cost you your life.

From what I have read of your post, he does not have an honest bone in his body. Until he takes responsibility for his actions, he won't be any good to himself or anyone else. Some people aren't marriage material no matter how you slice it.


That voice that made you uncomfortable the day before your marriage, was the voice of God warning you because He knows the end from the beginning. What is the harm in bailing out now..God was already waring you from the beginning.
I don't think that really helps all that much,,,, sometimes what seems like a perfect match blessed by God can turn sower, and sometimes what seems like a bad match can grow to something sweet. What makes the difference is choice, the choice from both sides to work on the marriage or not.

Personally i believe all marriages are blessed by God if there is genuine love and honesty between the couple. But in this case, there seems to be doubt in that regard, this is an important thing to consider, and it could well be legitimate grounds for divorce?
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
9,090
1,751
113
#37
Fadingheart,

Truly this is a heart wrenching story. The truth be told, most marriages are mates but not matches. Many people are together whom God never sanctioned to marry. [/
QUOTE]

I'm not sure how far you take this line of reasoning, but I have encountered people who think their marriages aren't legitimate unless God told them to marry beforehand. Their beliefs lead people to divorce and adulterously remarry.

If you aren't marrying your mother, sisters, or other close relative by blood or marriage, who is eligible to marry (not wrongly divorced, etc.), and you go about it in a right way, then you are married.

When Israel made covenant with the Gibeonites without asking God, God still required them to keep covenant and judged them when they didn't (e.g. the time of David in response to the sin of Saul killing the Gibeonites.)
 
Nov 30, 2013
682
10
0
#38
Fadingheart,

Truly this is a heart wrenching story. The truth be told, most marriages are mates but not matches. Many people are together whom God never sanctioned to marry. [/
QUOTE]

I'm not sure how far you take this line of reasoning, but I have encountered people who think their marriages aren't legitimate unless God told them to marry beforehand. Their beliefs lead people to divorce and adulterously remarry.

If you aren't marrying your mother, sisters, or other close relative by blood or marriage, who is eligible to marry (not wrongly divorced, etc.), and you go about it in a right way, then you are married.

When Israel made covenant with the Gibeonites without asking God, God still required them to keep covenant and judged them when they didn't (e.g. the time of David in response to the sin of Saul killing the Gibeonites.)


I understand what u are saying here, there are cases where its most absolutely a must to bail out. From what I have read here, this guy seems to be more of a burden than a help meet. What we also have to understand is that relationships of any kind affect our salvation. God does say, "Be careful who we connect ourselves to. Unless the Lord build the house, they labor in vain that build it. Psalm 127:1. She knew something wasn't right with this union before she married him. Of course God can heal wounded relationships. Sometimes the healing comes through division. Does God not say that He comes to bring a sword even in families? What is this sword? He's not willing that any should perish. Many of the children of men will have divorced God before He comes. If God has to reach us through divorce, death, loss of job, or sickness, He feels its better to go into the kingdom without an eye (figure of speech or maybe not) than to lose heaven.
 
M

mystikmind

Guest
#39
I understand what u are saying here, there are cases where its most absolutely a must to bail out. From what I have read here, this guy seems to be more of a burden than a help meet. What we also have to understand is that relationships of any kind affect our salvation. God does say, "Be careful who we connect ourselves to. Unless the Lord build the house, they labor in vain that build it. Psalm 127:1. She knew something wasn't right with this union before she married him. Of course God can heal wounded relationships. Sometimes the healing comes through division. Does God not say that He comes to bring a sword even in families? What is this sword? He's not willing that any should perish. Many of the children of men will have divorced God before He comes. If God has to reach us through divorce, death, loss of job, or sickness, He feels its better to go into the kingdom without an eye (figure of speech or maybe not) than to lose heaven.
Is what you mean here a bit like this; you would never break the arm of your child as punishment, but if you had to, you would break their arm to stop them falling off a cliff or running out on the road?
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
9,090
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#40


I understand what u are saying here, there are cases where its most absolutely a must to bail out.


It is pretty clear from comparing the New Testament to the morals and decisions of many people who profess faith in Christ in certain western countries that their beliefs and practices when it comes to divorce and remarriage do not line up with what Jesus and the apostles teach.

I don't see where Jesus said if marriage is difficult, get out. One teacher of God's word made the point that the reason Jesus taught against divorce is because marriage is hard. If marriage were easy, everyone would stay married and Jesus would not have had to teach against divorce.

From what I have read here, this guy seems to be more of a burden than a help meet.
Be that as it may, she is supposed to be his helpmeet.

What we also have to understand is that relationships of any kind affect our salvation. God does say, "Be careful who we connect ourselves to. Unless the Lord build the house, they labor in vain that build it. Psalm 127:1.
The first part of that is not from the Psalm. It sounds like a 'Message' or 'Living Bible' paraphrase of some other verse.

What about the verses that really directly apply to this situation, the ones against separating and divorce? Why not quote those?

Does God not say that He comes to bring a sword even in families? What is this sword?
This passage is about Christians being persecuted, not Christians causing division and persecuting other people. Paul told the one married to another believer if the unbeliever were willing to live with him or her, not to depart. But if the unbeliever departs, Paul's opinion which he says was not a commandment from the Lord, is to let the unbelieving depart. Even here, the believer doesn't leave the house or kick the other spouse out.