Gay Marriage

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presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
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It would be much appreciated if you do not continue to parrot what I have said. Your references against same-sex marriage do not reflect that of many people in these United States to include Clergy and Evangelicals. You hold a minority opinion on this issue that cannot withstand scrutiny.
God isn't going to ask the United States electorate for their opinion on the day of judgment. I'm sure you could find a church that repeats a lot of religious concepts and clichés (like modern terms like 'unconditional love', while ignoring the parts about God judging sinners.)

God will judged wicked nations who sin against Him and abandon the truth. The United States has embraced quite a bit of sexual perversion before society became so accepting of homosexuality. Majority opinion does not determine what is righteous or acceptable before God.
 

presidente

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May 29, 2013
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"Do you also advocate polygamous, incestuous, or pedophile marriage?" that has absolutely no bearing in this conversation and it is sad that you would attempt to make that connection. What you bring up is hardly the same and of course I do not advocate for those things. Why not? Because, and again, those things are hardly equal to same-sex marriage between two responsible adults who love each other from the heart with unwavering commitment and there can be no love from the heart in your aforementioned relationships.
You are right that polygamy is different from homosexual marriage. God certainly tolerate polygamy, regulated it, and even made covenants with polygamists. But He does not have the same tolerance for homosexual behavior. Even Gentiles were kicked out of the land for such behavior.

Same-sex marriage makes no sense and violates basic biology. Marriage is more than just having feelings of being in-love. It's the situation God created in which mankind would be fruitful and multiply. For Christians, it is a relationship which mirrors the relationship between Christ and the church. There needs to be a man who mirrors the behavior of Christ toward the church, and the wife who mirrors the relationship of the church with Christ.

Also, the law forbids marriage for people who would practice those things, as it should.
And many places still have laws against homosexual behavior, so by your reasoning, it must be wrong. More importantly, it is against God's law.

You talk about 'unconditional love.' If a one loves another person, does that mean he ignores and overlooks sin?

Leviticus 19
[SUP]17 [/SUP]‘You shall not hate your brother in your heart. You shall surely rebuke your neighbor, and not bear sin because of him. [SUP]18 [/SUP]You shall not take vengeance, nor bear any grudge against the children of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself: I am the Lord. (NKJV)

If you love your neighbor and you see your neighbor in error, wouldn't you correct him? The theme of correcting another who sins runs throughout the New Testament as well. Jesus speaks of removing the log from one's eye to see clearly to remove the mote from the neighbor's eye. He commanded one whose brother sins against him to rebuke him. If he repents, forgive him, otherwise bring one or two witnesses. If he won't hear them, bring it to the church. Paul's letters contain many instructions regarding correcting, admonishing, and even exercising church discipline against those who sin. James has a section on restoring those who sin.

Telling Christians not to point out what is sin or to correct those who do it is not Christianity.
 

presidente

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May 29, 2013
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No. I'm afraid you are quite incorrect with your way of thinking. You see, for centuries there have been people who sought to overpower others and control them by various means. The easiest way for some controlling Christians to do that is to use INAPPROPRIATE Scripture to try to get their way and be able to condemn those they do not understand. Leviticus, Sodom and Gomorrah, and other Biblical verses have been used incessantly to try to condemn people who are born with a same-sex attraction sexual orientation.
I don't think it is a sin to struggle with same sex attraction. If someone is tempted in this area and they give in to it (which could including using porn to look with lust, etc.) then that is a sin.

Lots of us could be tempted to do something that God has forbidden. A single man could be tempted to look on a woman in order to lust after her. A married man could be tempted to covet his neighbor's wife. Being tempted is not a sin. Yielding the parts of one's body (even if it is the eyes) to the temptation is sinful, though.

I don't agree with a Christian who struggles with same-sex attraction calling himself 'gay' or 'homosexual.' He should reckon the old man to be dead with Christ. He should reckon himself to be dead indeed to sin, but alive unto God, like Romans 6 teachers. If a man or woman had a problem with fornicating in their past lives, I don't think they should call themselves 'fornicator Christians' or 'fornicator tempted Christians' as a matter of identity. That messes up their thinking and can hinder their faith.


Take for instance, the child who is still in school who repeatedly hears how bad it is to be Gay or Lesbian. Then other prejudiced students take that stance and start teasing the child and then bullying him or her. That negative behavior goes on for not days or weeks or months but for years. It gets to the point where the child feels so inferior and unloved coupled by having parents who are not understanding of their sexual orientation that they turn to the only way they feel is the way out of this catastrophe -- Suicide.
It's not really my area of research, but I have read of psychological research that indicates that homosexuals are more likely to commit suicide and have certain forms of mental illness than the general population. I don't think we can blame all the suicide on bullying. Especially for those who engage in homosexual behavior, it's unreasonable to blame all these problems homosexuals face on society. Romans 1 speaks of men 'receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.' There are consequences to sin.

Yes, it happens and is happening now as we speak. And we just have to ask ourselves is it worth it to cause a young, impressionable child to take their own life as so many are doing worldwide due to scorn and hate for who they truly are and for whom they love? No, it is not and could never be.
I'm more concerned about some of the school curriculum, like one that teaches kids that the anus is genitalia and that presents all examples of homosexual relationships positively, and only chooses 'heterosexual' relationships as the bad examples. Children are taught that homosexual behavior is normal. The school system basically grooms the kids to be molested, if not by an adult homosexual, then by some other child.

Had being Gay or Lesbian been such a grave sin in His Divine eyes, there can be no doubt that He would have immediately instituted an Eleventh Commandment "Thou Shalt Not Be Gay or Lesbian."
Your concept of 'gay' and 'lesbian' didn't really exist back then-- as an identity the way you think of it now. It's not reality. It's an artificial construct. The book of Leviticus does list various sins, including sexual sins, for which God drove the Gentiles out of the land. When the apostles wrote a letter to point out certain sins Gentiles should not engage in, they chose certain things the Old Testament indicated were sinful for Gentiles. God told the ancestor of the Gentiles, Noah, not to eat meat with the blood still in it. The apostles wrote to the Gentiles to abstain from blood. The Old Testament indicates that God was displeased with the Gentiles for idolatry, and Acts 15 tells Gentiles to abstain from things strangled. There is a list of sexual sins, including lying with a man as one does with a woman, that were sinful for Gentiles. The apostles said to abstain from fornication. Jesus also spoke of 'fornications' as a sin in Matthew 19.

Btw, I've heard of 'raca' in the sermon on the mount being translated as 'homosexual.'

Keep in mind that to some baby boomers, Gen Y'ers and evangelical Christians, 'homosexual' doesn't mean so much an orientation, as it does someone who does homosexual acts.

But mankind does many times, again by using inappropriate Scripture to try to justify their prejudice, intolerance, discrimination, scorn, and hate. Jesus told us to "Love One Another Unconditionally." That means with no conditions! None whatsoever. If There Is Any Judging To Be Done Leave It To God.
Jesus said to remove the log out of your own eye so that you can see clearly to remove the speck out of your brother's eyes. He wanted believers to correct other believers who sinned. Matthew 18 gives further, more detailed instructions.

Behavior justified by using Biblical references to try to support their hatred for others whom they do not understand such as people who are homosexual. Their egregious methods to belittle others and ostracize them defies description. And in the meantime, more people, of all ages, will continue to die at the hands of these evil-does who purport to know the word of God when all they know is how to cause the death of others through their hatred. They are the true Anti-Christ.
Reading this sort of stuff from you, I just wonder if you think of the universe as revolving around being gay. Does your whole religion focus on homosexuality, being gay, the state of homosexuals, etc.? Are you more loyal to the whole LGBT thing or the Lord Jesus?

If you just suddenly knew that God did not want anyone engaging in homosexual behavior and that He was very displeased with the LGBT movement for promoting wickedness, would you side with God, or would you decide you could not follow such a God? Does your loyalty lie with Christ, or are you loyal to the LGBT movement?
As for Gay Marriage, we must remember that America is not a Theocracy. Those who are opposed to it of course have their opinion. But the fact remains that America is governed by the laws of this land and when a majority of people set themselves up such as to try to pass a law by petition or proposition in their state against the civil and human rights of a minority of citizens such as those in the LGBT community, they are not affording them their Constitutional protections under the Fourteenth Amendment and the Equal Protection Clause as the courts have ruled.
Activist judges have read some crazy ideas into certain amendments that any literate person can clearly see aren't there. In the recent past, the majority of the electorate has not sided with those who seek to redefine marriage, so the LGBT has found success through activist judges who push it through. The victims are the children up for adoption, as judges decide they should give equal opportunity to homosexual couples. So kids will grow up with the stress of having to defend their adopted parents lifestyle choices and face the higher chance of growing up around domestic violence in lesbian homes. They may also have a higher chance of turning out to live a homosexual lifestyle according to some research, especially the girls raised by lesbians.
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
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Heartlove,
notsofast's has been banned or I'd ask him, too. But I'd like to ask you. Do type in searches on Google all the time looking for discussion forums about homosexuality so you can promote the LGBT agenda?

Both of you guys got usernames after this topic started and started posting on here. Is this just the sort of thing you do all over the Internet? Is promoting freedom and tolerance in society to be arsenokoite and malakos a high priority for you?
 
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kaylagrl

Guest
The parity is correct. You need to educate yourself better and not be so one-sided about this issue. Of course, introducing links from far-right sources is going to produce the type of information you hope to use in order to continue keeping innocent Gay and Lesbian people as second-class citizens. That is as sad as it is outrageous. Again, the bottom line is that we are saved by the blood of Jesus Christ who did not condemn Gay and Lesbian individuals. All other personal beliefs are fallacious. End of story.

Quote " Jesus Christ who did not condemn Gay and Lesbian individuals." Ummm excuse me but I think you missed some Bible verses there.The Bible definitely condemns homosexuality,Jesus certainly does.Both OT and NT do.
 
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Quote " Jesus Christ who did not condemn Gay and Lesbian individuals." Ummm excuse me but I think you missed some Bible verses there.The Bible definitely condemns homosexuality,Jesus certainly does.Both OT and NT do.
That is incorrect. Jesus never condemned homosexuality ever in His ministry. The Scriptures many people feel condemn homosexuality, in effect, are not talking about homosexuality or condemning it but are speaking about something entirely different. However, people in their continued scorn, intolerance, and bigotry use inappropriate Scripture to marginalize those whom they don't understand but whom God created and nevertheless loves unconditionally that is whether they are Gay or Lesbian and whom they love because He does understand them and why they were created the way they were.

A favorite Scripture of many is the Sodom and Gomorrah one that they present as God condemning homosexuality. He did not condemn homosexuality. This was about something entirely different that people should get clear. God does not condemn people who are born Gay or Lesbian because He created them too and knows them better than you or I and of their struggles and challenges they will inevitably face when confronted with bigoted people and their extremely narrow-minded way of thinking. What God very much dislikes is Promiscuity, not homosexuality. But that, of course, goes for both Gay and Straight individuals not just Gay.

Please see the following:

The Sin Of Sodom That Jesus Mentioned Was Inhospitality, Not Homosexuality

"The sin of Sodom was homosexuality, according to many Christians but not according to Jesus and the Bible. Modern preachers allege that God destroyed ancient Sodom because He hates homosexuality. The problem with this viewpoint is that it goes against the testimony of history, the testimony of scripture and the testimony of Jesus."
 
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kaylagrl

Guest
That is incorrect. Jesus never condemned homosexuality ever in His ministry. The Scriptures many people feel condemn homosexuality, in effect, are not talking about homosexuality or condemning it but are speaking about something entirely different. However, people in their continued scorn, intolerance, and bigotry use inappropriate Scripture to marginalize those whom they don't understand but whom God created and nevertheless loves unconditionally that is whether they are Gay or Lesbian and whom they love because He does understand them and why they were created the way they were.

A favorite Scripture of many is the Sodom and Gomorrah one that they present as God condemning homosexuality. He did not condemn homosexuality. This was about something entirely different that people should get clear. God does not condemn people who are born Gay or Lesbian because He created them too and knows them better than you or I and of their struggles and challenges they will inevitably face when confronted with bigoted people and their extremely narrow-minded way of thinking. What God very much dislikes is Promiscuity, not homosexuality. But that, of course, goes for both Gay and Straight individuals not just Gay.

Please see the following:

The Sin Of Sodom That Jesus Mentioned Was Inhospitality, Not Homosexuality

First of all I believe Gods love gay people as much as any other person.And I dont think we will anyone to Christ using disparaging names which I cannot list here.We ought to pray before we try to reach anyone so its no our words being spoken but the Holy Spirits.That being said God/Jesus are one in the same.What God says in the OT stands in the NT.Here is what the Bible says about homosexuality.


Leviticus 18:22 -
22'You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination.

Leviticus 20:13-13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.


[h=1]Romans 1:26-26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.[/h]
[h=1]1 Timothy 1:8-10-8 We know that the law is good if one uses it properly. 9 We also know that the law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, 10 for the sexually immoral, for those practicing homosexuality[/h]
Both old and new say the same thing about homosexuality,that it is wrong.It is not talking about something different nor does it have anything to do with intolerance and bigotry.God did not create homosexuality.If you are preaching that you are damning souls to hell.If you truly cared for homosexual people you would tell them about the freedom they can have in Christ. That they dont have to be bound by homosexuality.

Now as to your link,which I gave a brief view,quite amusing.The definition of sodomy definitely is not inhospitable people.Here are the verses...

[h=1]Genesis 19:4-13-4 Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom—both young and old—surrounded the house. 5 They called to Lot, “Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them.”[/h]
6 Lot went outside to meet them and shut the door behind him 7 and said, “No, my friends. Don’t do this wicked thing.8 Look, I have two daughters who have never slept with a man. Let me bring them out to you, and you can do what you like with them. But don’t do anything to these men, for they have come under the protection of my roof.”
9 “Get out of our way,” they replied. “This fellow came here as a foreigner, and now he wants to play the judge! We’ll treat you worse than them.” They kept bringing pressure on Lot and moved forward to break down the door.

The issue was definitely not inhospitality here. Lot offered his two virgin daughters,I'd say thats pretty dang hospitable wouldn't you? Why did Lot offer his daughters? Because they were wanting to have sex with the angels which was sin. It really,really annoys me when people twist the Bible and rewrite it to make their sin acceptable.But besides annoying me,it is far worse because you are lying to people and telling them it is ok to stay in their sin.And that to me is reprehensible.


[h=1][/h]
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
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That is incorrect. Jesus never condemned homosexuality ever in His ministry. The Scriptures many people feel condemn homosexuality, in effect, are not talking about homosexuality or condemning it but are speaking about something entirely different. However, people in their continued scorn, intolerance, and bigotry use inappropriate Scripture to marginalize those whom they don't understand but whom God created and nevertheless loves unconditionally that is whether they are Gay or Lesbian and whom they love because He does understand them and why they were created the way they were.

A favorite Scripture of many is the Sodom and Gomorrah one that they present as God condemning homosexuality. He did not condemn homosexuality. This was about something entirely different that people should get clear. God does not condemn people who are born Gay or Lesbian because He created them too and knows them better than you or I and of their struggles and challenges they will inevitably face when confronted with bigoted people and their extremely narrow-minded way of thinking. What God very much dislikes is Promiscuity, not homosexuality. But that, of course, goes for both Gay and Straight individuals not just Gay.

Please see the following:

The Sin Of Sodom That Jesus Mentioned Was Inhospitality, Not Homosexuality
Look, you really have this issue messed up. The Bible is crystal clear on the sin of homosexuality. The New Testament is even clearer than the Old on this issue. There are several verses, in several NT Books that explicitly say homosexuality is sin. How can you twist this Scripture to fit your narrative?


Romans 1:24-2724Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: 25Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.26For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:27And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

You are actually hating people by not telling them that they need to stop, and pray for the power to repent from these sins.
 
A

AgeofKnowledge

Guest
You're revealing your ignorance again and making false assertions, as usual.

Jesus was a rabbi who adhered to the Mosaic Law as a religious Jew which, by default, condemned homosexuality in the strongest terms.

The Old Testament and Mosaic Law are clear that homosexuality was wrong for the Jews, it was wrong for gentiles who visited the Jews ("aliens"), it was an abomination that defiled the land when practiced by pagans who inhabited Canaan long before the Jews came, and Jesus Christ taught against it along with all other sexual immorality.

As Kyle Butts (M.A. in New Testament studies) explains at apologetics press:

"Jesus did, in fact, speak against homosexuality. On numerous occasions, Jesus condemned the sins of adultery (Matthew 19:18), sexual immorality (Matthew 19:9) and fornication (Matthew 15:19). These terms describe any type of sexual intercourse that is not within the confines of a marriage ordained by God. Jesus then proceeded to define exactly what God views as a morally permissible marriage. He stated:

'Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning made them male and female, and said, “For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh”? So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate' (Matthew 19:4-6).

By defining marriage as between one male and one female, Jesus effectively condemned all other arrangements, including but not limited to one man and two women, one woman and two men, three men and one woman, three men and three women, one man and one man, one woman and one animal, etc. You can see the overwhelming logic of such. For Jesus to have to explicitly condemn every assortment of genders and numbers would be absurd. When He defined marriage between one man and one woman, He clearly showed that such an arrangement is the only one authorized by God."

Meaning, of course, "HeartLove" that you're simply propagating more falsehood.

The scriptures that condemn the sexual immorality of homosexuality are, in fact, condemning the sexual immorality of homosexuality. Your continuing and completely unsupported false assertion to the contrary is untrue and will always be untrue.

Loving God but rejecting His Holiness is not really loving God for God's holiness is an extension of His very character. Genuine Christians love God first and foremost as Jesus commanded in Matthew 22 as His greatest commandment to all who would be His disciples stating:

"And He [Jesus Christ] said to him, 'You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ This is the great and foremost commandment."

For the genuine Christian, we love God first and foremost... enough to die to ourselves and take on His holiness for our lives per His expressed will and commandment (Galatians 5:24, Romans 6:1-23, etc...).

Refusal to do so is, in fact, a witness that one does not truly love Holy God first and foremost but rather loves the world and is demonstrating they are also unloving and disobedient to Christ Himself who stated in John 14:15, "If you love me, keep my commandments."

It's the unrepentant sinner who mocks and scorns God's holiness and genuine Christians whom God Himself is presently sanctifying in preparation for glorification in eternity. It's the unrepentant sinner who is intolerant and full of bigotry against God's holy people (see 1 Peter 2:9). Read 'The New Tolerance' by Josh McDowell in which he clearly demonstrates this.

Continually parroting the heresy of antinomianism only shows that you yourself are unrepentant and in rebellion to God and His holiness "HeartLove."

Continually parroting that God loves sinners unconditionally while refusing to acknowledge that this love is for the purpose of transforming them into "new creatures in Christ" (see 2 Corinthians 5) spiritually regenerated by the Holy Spirit to live a holy life is to continually misrepresent the Gospel.

Read Galatians 5 and pay attention to versus 19-21:

"The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God."

When you exhort people to reject God's holiness and immerse themselves in "acts of the flesh," you literally act as an agent of the devil turning people away from the kingdom of God and its love AND holiness.

Now read verse 24, "Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires."

Sin is rebellion against God and His Word which God sent Christ to remedy. But, as was previously explained to you in Hebrews 10, but which you immediately disregarded, "If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left."

What's happening all through scripture from Genesis to Revelations is that people's response to God's "unconditional love" conditions whether or not they receive it. Rejecting God's "unconditional love" by rejecting the Gospel, for example, will result in condemnation and hell. Universalism is a fallacy. And so rejecting God's holiness is to reject His "unconditional love" resulting in the same thing.

John puts it this way in 1 John 3:

"Everyone who practices sin also practices lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness. You know that He appeared in order to take away sins; and in Him there is no sin. No one who abides in Him sins; no one who sins has seen Him or knows Him. Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous; the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil. No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God..."

In context with the rest of scripture and the nuance of the original language, it's clear that John does not say this of every one who commits a sin, but of the habitual sinner (present participle).

Although the believer sometimes sins, sin is opposition to their spiritually regenerated new nature. Sin is no longer the ruling principle of their life. When they sin, they feel guilty and are naturally inclined to seek out deliverance, confession, forgiveness, and the ability to continue on with a life of sanctification.

But for the habitual sinner, sin is their ruling principle. Just as apostates discard sound doctrine proving that they never really belonged (1 John 2:19), so the unholy continue in a life immersed in sin proving that they have not been spiritually regenerated by God with a new nature as a new creature in Christ.

Seeing and knowing are not two names for the same fact: to see Christ is to be spiritually conscious of His presence; to know Him is to recognize His character and His relation to ourselves.

God extended unconditional love to Adolph Hitler and then cast him into hell for eternity because of how Adolph responded to it.

Furthermore, God did not create sin. Rather, He created freewill creatures that chose to sin. Likewise, God did not create homosexuality or homosexuals. "He created them male and female..." and in Genesis 2:24 gave them the institution of marriage as absolutely monogamous. But, "men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire [orexis] toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error," (Romans 1:27).

The sin of Sodom was homosexuality not mere inhospitability.

Please see the following:
http://www.str.org/articles/what-was-the-sin-of-sodom-and-gomorrah#.VQCSL8t0xpg
What was the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah?
Apologetics Press - Sodom--Inhospitality or Homosexuality?

You're simply repeating your false assertions and heresy while promoting sexual immorality at CC and misrepresenting scripture and God's love and holiness in what really is a bizarre attempt to distort God's Word and design for humanity to justify a particular sexual immorality.

Read 'Homosexuality: Contemporary Claims Examined in Light of the Bible and Other Ancient Literature and Law' by Dr. James D. Young.



That is incorrect. Jesus never condemned homosexuality ever in His ministry. The Scriptures many people feel condemn homosexuality, in effect, are not talking about homosexuality or condemning it but are speaking about something entirely different. However, people in their continued scorn, intolerance, and bigotry use inappropriate Scripture to marginalize those whom they don't understand but whom God created and nevertheless loves unconditionally that is whether they are Gay or Lesbian and whom they love because He does understand them and why they were created the way they were. A favorite Scripture of many is the Sodom and Gomorrah one that they present as God condemning homosexuality. He did not condemn homosexuality. This was about something entirely different that people should get clear. God does not condemn people who are born Gay or Lesbian because He created them too and knows them better than you or I and of their struggles and challenges they will inevitably face when confronted with bigoted people and their extremely narrow-minded way of thinking. What God very much dislikes is Promiscuity, not homosexuality. But that, of course, goes for both Gay and Straight individuals not just Gay. Please see the following: The Sin Of Sodom That Jesus Mentioned Was Inhospitality, Not Homosexuality
 
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presidente

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May 29, 2013
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God does not condemn people who are born Gay or Lesbian because He created them too and knows them better than you or I and of their struggles and challenges they will inevitably face when confronted with bigoted people and their extremely narrow-minded way of thinking.
How would anyone know if they were 'gay' from birth? Anyone having sex from birth has been molested. If someone has been having homosexual sex from birth, it doesn't make sense to say that he was born homosexual. Molestation could certainly effect someone's sexual preferences and outlook.


Sodomites were inhospitable and did not want to share, but that wasn't their only sin. But one of their sins was sexual sin. They wanted to force homosexual sex on those who appeared to be human.
 

presidente

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May 29, 2013
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27And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

Thanks for posting that. I'd like to point out that one bit of LGBT sophistry that is applied to this passage is to argue that Paul is not talking about the modern type of 'loving homosexual relationship.' They'll point out that relationships where a more powerful man had some young boy as an object for sexual pleasure, forced slave prostitution, and such things. But this passage is clear. Paul describes what is happening today. Men burn in their lusts for one another. He's not just talking about where one man has lust and forces himself on another man.

One of the most bizarre arguments that LGBT apologists make is that 'malakos'-- translated effeminate in the KJV-- refers to young boys who were molested as temple prostitutes or something along those lines. That passage says they will not inherit the kingdom of God. So they would have us believe that two grown men who choose to indulge their lusts for one another can inherit the kingdom of God, but some poor kid who gets sold into slavery and is molested won't. That's some pretty sick reasoning, right there? But what do we expect from those who would twist the word of God?


Homosexual sex is not loving, because love does not delight in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth. Adulterous sex is not loving in the I Corinthians 13 sense either. Those who engage in these behaviors may experience some of the same emotions that those who engage in sex righteously in marriage do, but that doesn't mean they are acting in God's love.
 

presidente

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May 29, 2013
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The issue was definitely not inhospitality here. Lot offered his two virgin daughters,I'd say thats pretty dang hospitable wouldn't you? Why did Lot offer his daughters? Because they were wanting to have sex with the angels which was sin.


Sodom was being inhospitable to the strangers (angels in this case) by wanting to gay-rape them. That doesn't mean that gay-raping people or angels is only a sin if it's in a hospitality situation. It's wrong to perform homosexual rape on someone who lives in your house or on someone who isn't a stranger. This is the problem with the sophistry of LGBT apologists. They want to make the sin only being inhospitable. But if that were the case, acts of violence or sexually immoral acts are only immoral if they are done to guests.

And if HeartLove were consistent about thinking it a horrific evil to point out that sin is sin, he should stop trying to argue that Christians pointing out what is sin are indirectly causing teens to commit suicide, and then calling that a sin. Teens kill themselves from drug overdoses after buying bad street drugs. Does that mean that everyone who is for keeping heroine or crack illegal is guilty for every drug overdose? One can try to pass blame around for an individuals bad or sinful choice, but it doesn't always make sense.
 
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Galahad

Guest
Greetings Galahad. Please take a look at the following fine website from a denomination that traditionally has not supported same-sex marriage for answers that may surprise you in relation to the subject matter. It is from a Theology scholar in the Word of God. (The link goes directly to the page with regard to same-sex marriage.)

A Catholic Defense of Same Sex Marriage

By Professor Daniel C. Maguire
a Catholic Theologian teaching at Marquette University, Milwaukee, Wisconsin

After 2 more deaths Planned Parenthood alters method for abortion pill (printer friendly)
HeartLove,
Banned!
Visited the site. The About Us page at that site says it all:
(You must be one of them, as you are right in line with their thinking and tactics. And in one post of yours, I saw that you used "There is neither male nor female in Christ" to try to support same sex unions. If you really believed that, you wouldn't align and join yourself with a feminist group, would you? Well, thinking about it, scripture doesn't actually matter. Bah!) Now here's the About Us . . .

The Religious Consultation on Population, Reproductive Health & Ethics

Welcome

Who are we and what do we do?

The Religious Consultation (TRC) is an international, multi-faith network of progressive feminist religious scholars and leaders. We seek out the positive, renewable moral energies of our faith traditions, directing them to the issues of population, consumption, ecology, reproductive health and the empowerment of women. The Religious Consultation recognizes that religion is a powerful motivator. So we seek to influence scholarship, policymaking and popular opinion in appropriate and effective ways: we
participate in international and governmental forums

convene symposia of theologians and religious ethicists

publish scholarly and popular materials

disseminate the results of our work through print and broadcast media worldwide.
The Religious Consultation invites the distinctive insights of all world religions to join in our common quest for wisdom to heal the world.

 
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Galahad

Guest
God isn't going to ask the United States electorate for their opinion on the day of judgment. I'm sure you could find a church that repeats a lot of religious concepts and clichés (like modern terms like 'unconditional love', while ignoring the parts about God judging sinners.)

God will judged wicked nations who sin against Him and abandon the truth. The United States has embraced quite a bit of sexual perversion before society became so accepting of homosexuality. Majority opinion does not determine what is righteous or acceptable before God.
And that's Mr. presidente speaking! So now we know it ain't the PRESIDENT.

The tract record of the multitude. . .
Majority voted twice for Obama.
Only 8 souls saved in the ark. All others, the majority, perished.
10 of 12 spies cried "Giants, giants are in the land. We can't conquer it."
10 of 12 tribes abandon the Lord and house of David.
The majority bowed to the image of Nebuchadnezzar, there stood boldly 3 young men, however, who did not.
Majority enter gate that leads to destruction, few enter straight and narrow that leads to life.
 
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AgeofKnowledge

Guest
I tried to warn him. It's fine to bring up topics to discuss and discuss them but there comes a point, after one's been competently and carefully refuted, that one needs to stop propagating heresy and sexual immorality on these Christian forums which violate genuine orthodox exegesis of scripture, the early historical Christian creeds and confessions, and the essentials of the Christian faith solely to continue pushing an agenda of heresy and sexual immorality.

This is a genuine Christian forum. It's a place for godly interaction and Christian education. It's not a place to propagate heresy and sexual immorality after a sound refutation followed by numerous warnings.

EOM.
 
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AgeofKnowledge

Guest
It's also fallacious to assert that genuine Christians don't love sinners (including people who choose to engage in homosexual behavior) simply because genuine Christians align with God's holiness as well as His love.

We love them enough to tell them the truth instead of distort God's Word into heresy and attempt to deceive them and ourselves just to "conform to the world" as HeartLove was doing.

God loves sinners so much that He sent His only son to pay the ultimate sacrifice to redeem them from a life of habitual sin and regenerate them with His Holy Spirit for good works and a godly life.

The Gospel isn't a license to live a life immersed in sexual immorality and unholiness but still get a "free pass" but rather it's an opportunity to partner with our Creator toward becoming more like Christ.
 
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AnnaBou

Guest
You'll change your mind if they start doing successful uterus transplants in men. But they'd still have to get the egg from somewhere.
It gets worse. In England if you say I was born a woman in a man's body the NHS will pay to 'change' you to seem like a woman. Next we'll have people saying I was born a dog in a man's body and the NHS will give them four legs and a tail.
 
Dec 1, 2014
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people can be born gay? Do you realize what a slap in the face it is to GOD HIMSELF, our Creator? GOD made male and female..one completing the other. To rationalize that some are BORN gay leaves it up to 'fate' and ultimately assuming GOD made them that way. What a crock! I want to be standing near GOD one day when someone says to HIM, "BUT GOD, YOU, uh, well, I was born this way! It's YOUR fault!
 

blue_ladybug

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2014
70,869
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People are not born gay..that's ridiculous and whoever believes that is obviously not in tune with God and how he made people.. God HATES homosexuality, he ain't gonna create gay babies. What absolute and utter nonsense..
 
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Sirk

Guest
People are not born gay..that's ridiculous and whoever believes that is obviously not in tune with God and how he made people.. God HATES homosexuality, he ain't gonna create gay babies. What absolute and utter nonsense..
If people can be born gay then I was born being a cheese lover.