The biblical canon...any books missing from the Bible that ought to be there?

Jason0047 · Mar 17, 2015

Oh, and I explain the point on Revelation 22:18 being a double fulfillment type verse in this thread here
(If your interested):

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/100040-biblical-defense-sola-scriptura.html

Jason0047 · Mar 17, 2015

RachelBibleStudent said:

I would agree with that.

The apocrypha clearly contradicts Scripture in many places. So I don't see it as deleted scenes (As if God intended it to be in the Bible but it just got cut out of it). Man had wrongfully inserted the Apocrypha into His Word. It was never actually God's Word whereby it was deleted. I would say that the books I listed in my previous post within this thread (Besides the Word of God) are the deleted scenes.

A blooper reel suggests that there was mistakes on the part of the actors in the original filming. This suggests that there is a book that records the mistakes in the authenticity within God's Word. No such book exists. For everyone had played their part as they would have intended to.

I agree with the first two, but the Book of Mormon would technically be an unofficial (and unrelated) low budget sequel.

kennethcadwell · Mar 17, 2015

Jason0047 said:

I usually agree with most of what you say here, but the adding and taking away is not necessarily meant that we can not use other sources or writings from the first Apostles, or early church leaders that are not in the bible.
That is not adding or taking away from the word by doing that, now from there we are lead by the Spirit to determine what lines up with His word and what does not. Some of the early church writings that are available that are not in the bible do align with His word, and others do not.
Those who deny the translation errors in all English versions we have are not lead in truth, as we have had this discussion before. I have shown also that in a study done with the English translations to the original Hebrew and Greek, the KJV came out to be the closest to the original, yet it had its issues to.

Man has and always will by the spirit of antichrist twist the scriptures, and to say there is no hint of this within the English versions would be in denial. I have looked at different English versions and seen how some of them blatantly reword scriptures to say something different then the original texts.
Adding or taking away from His word, which is not just mentioned in Revelation but also in Deuteronomy 4:2 means do not add or take away from what He said/commanded.
So for instance Jesus commanded baptism, those who say we don't have to be baptized are taking away from His word.
Jesus said you have to repent for your sins, those who say you don't are taking away from His word.
Jesus said you have to show love to others, those who say or show no love toward others are taking away from His word.
Jesus said those who believe in Him are those who come to Him, hear what He says, then does it, those who take away the doing part for belief is taking away from His word.

Then vise versa if somebody says to do things that are not in the bible, then they are adding to His word...Pharisees

crossnote · Mar 17, 2015

kennethcadwell said:

The thing is that even in God's word it says if you have a question seek out in prayer to Him, and He will reveal the truth to us by His Holy Spirit.
And one of the points I make as to why all sources must be looked at and then taken in context as to if it is God's word to or not, by asking Him in prayer and He will reveal the answer. We are not to lean on other men's understandings or teachings, as they may not be the truth. We are to lean on Him and let Him give us knowledge through the Holy Spirit.

But we are not Mormons looking for the burning in the bosom.

crossnote · Mar 17, 2015

kennethcadwell said:

Sure we can use other sources as aides but never do they contain the same authority as the established Word of God.
Being 'led by the Spirit' to determine what lines up with His word and what does not' is terribly subjective and dangerous.
People claim to be 'led of the Spirit' often end up doing and saying some wacky things.
We don't judge God's Word ...it judges us.

Sophia · Mar 17, 2015

RachelBibleStudent said:

This is hilarious.
Perhaps it can't stand up to the scrutiny of critics, but it is revealing and whitty none-the-less.

Jason0047 · Mar 17, 2015

kennethcadwell said:

I usually agree with most of what you say here, but the adding and taking away is not necessarily meant that we can not use other sources or writings from the first Apostles, or early church leaders that are not in the bible.
That is not adding or taking away from the word by doing that, now from there we are lead by the Spirit to determine what lines up with His word and what does not. Some of the early church writings that are available that are not in the bible do align with His word, and others do not.
Those who deny the translation errors in all English versions we have are not lead in truth, as we have had this discussion before. I have shown also that in a study done with the English translations to the original Hebrew and Greek, the KJV came out to be the closest to the original, yet it had its issues to.

Man has and always will by the spirit of antichrist twist the scriptures, and to say there is no hint of this within the English versions would be in denial. I have looked at different English versions and seen how some of them blatantly reword scriptures to say something different then the original texts.
Adding or taking away from His word, which is not just mentioned in Revelation but also in Deuteronomy 4:2 means do not add or take away from what He said/commanded.
So for instance Jesus commanded baptism, those who say we don't have to be baptized are taking away from His word.
Jesus said you have to repent for your sins, those who say you don't are taking away from His word.
Jesus said you have to show love to others, those who say or show no love toward others are taking away from His word.
Jesus said those who believe in Him are those who come to Him, hear what He says, then does it, those who take away the doing part for belief is taking away from His word.

Then vise versa if somebody says to do things that are not in the bible, then they are adding to His word...Pharisees

If you didn't see it before, check out my link in post #21. I explain my position on Sola Scriptura (using Scripture) there in more detail.

kennethcadwell · Mar 17, 2015

crossnote said:

Yes I know some claim to be lead by the Spirit and are not lead by the Spirit, they maybe lead by a spirit but it may not be the Holy Spirit. That is why the Lord says we will know those who are lead by the Holy Spirit by their fruits. If they speak to others in a unedifying manner, using words that are not proper and their actions are improper to then the bible shows they are not lead by the Holy Spirit. For it clearly states in the bible that the Holy Spirit will not lead one to walk in uncleanness, but in the fruits of the Spirit.
We do have His Holy Word that was written in Hebrew and Greek, and we have the KJV that was proven in a study to be closest to the original texts even though it has minor translation errors itself. That is why the bible says to seek out the answers in prayer to God, and He will give all knowledge through His Holy Spirit. So that we can see beyond the errors of mistranslation and twisting of the word by the versions we have or the individuals who give it.
For we are told to test all spirits, and then means even those we listen to that preach from the pulpit because they may not be from God. If the person preaching denies Jesus as Christ and/or His teachings to keeping them then they are not of the Holy Spirit. Apostle John clearly shows those who abide in Christ and Christ abiding in them keeps His commandments.

kennethcadwell · Mar 17, 2015

Jason0047 said:

Yeah I saw the link, and I am not against Sola Scriptura as I do believe His word has final authority over all.
The thing I do realize though is that the KJV is not without its minor translation errors, but some other English versions have major translation errors. I do believe His scriptures were original done in Hebrew and Greek because they were, but the bible itself warns about men twisting and corrupting His word and this is done in the many English versions we have.

This is why even in His word God says that if we have a question seek out in prayer to Him, and He will reveal that knowledge to us by His Holy Spirit. And I have done this a number of times, and the Holy Spirit has directed me to other sources and writings from the early church leaders that are not in the bible some of the time. Most of the time He gave me the answers directly from the bible, but He has guided me to other people and sources as well.

Jason0047 · Mar 17, 2015

kennethcadwell said:

Well, as you know (And not to get into a KJV debate), I believe the KJV is the preserved perfect Word of God for our day. I have many observable evidences that proves this to be true for me. So I don't believe the KJV has any errors within it. I had people try and point errors out in it to me (many times), and I have refuted all of them by comparing Scripture with Scripture every time. For example: Atheists see erros in God's Word where none exist. They just make assumptions that there are errors in the Bible. In other words, sometimes the answer is not always so obvious, but when a person just trusts God's Word is perfect, the Lord will give them that answer in His timing. For the Word of God should correct us and not the other way around. Also, if the Word was only perfectly preserved in the past in some dead language, how could the Lord say He is the God of the living and not the God of the dead? In other words, God abides with His Word in a language that is preserved for His people today and not in some dead language (That nobody really knows what it says unless they compare it with the English and by comparing Scripture with Scripture).

As for other sources: I believe that we can learn from other believers and life situations. But God's Word should always be glorified in these moments and it should be the ultimate authority or the final word of authority when it comes to spiritual matters.

Jason0047 · Mar 17, 2015

Remember, God had the power to allow his people to speak and listen to each other in their own language just fine at Pentecost; And He is that same powerful God that we worship today.

kennethcadwell · Mar 17, 2015

Jason0047 said:

Well we will have to disagree on this because the NKJV was written to fix some of those errors.
Like I said before they are small errors that do not change the salvation message, but they are errors none the less. Like the very minor ones that really make no difference like for example as the KJV says Holy Ghost and the actual translation is Holy Spirit.
It is nothing that affects the message but is still an error in translation none the less......

kennethcadwell · Mar 17, 2015

kennethcadwell said:

And I wanted to add that the usage of dead language just means it is not a language used as the main speech in that area any more, not that nobody can translate it. If nobody can translate it then we would not even have the KJV that we use, so the dead language usage is misapplied.
There are people still to this day that can translate the original Hebrew and Greek texts, and we even know the definitions of those Hebrew and Greek words as well. This though does lead into other issues as I have seen some misuse the Greek and Hebrew definitions as well. They take continuation of one thing leading to another, to twist it to say a finished action with continuing results...........

Tintin · Mar 17, 2015

RachelBibleStudent said:

*Snort-laugh*
That was simply brilliant, Rachel!

yaright · Mar 17, 2015

kennethcadwell said:

I cannot argue against the premise of trusting the Holy Spirit to teach. To that end, each person will come to understand that there is no end to the books that have been or are yet to be written. If we agree that God's thoughts are not our thought, then it is a certain things that there is no end to learning. Some of the things I've written about on this site were given to me as an answer to some of my questions in prayer. That does not mean this is someone else's failure to search. Every person of faith in Christ contributes in ways that are clearly a blessing. That is why I see this site as a blessing. One of the things I am learning is how not to be so caustic if I do not understand what a person is saying. Everyone continues to learn more, making change an inevitable process. In a manner of speaking, change is a jealous creature. I have found what you are saying about errors in our bibles are not only in the original versions, but I have found some study guides fall short in their interpretation. I don't throw the book out. I use it as an example for a need to trust the Holy Spirit to teach. Thank you for this contribution.

fredjames · Mar 17, 2015

tribesman said:

The 'doctrine of men' may 'debate' we do not have the 'full written records of GOD's Word', also 'muslims', for they claim the disciples of JESUS 'distorted' them and claiming their 'quran' is the 'completion'.

But the HOLY SPIRIT have inspired 'sufficient written records of GOD 's word' in order for us to 'practice them' and also 'abide in them' and 'bear much fruit and our fruit should 'abide'.

eternally-gratefull · Mar 17, 2015

crossnote said:

I am also curious about all the contradictions caused in the books. Adding them into the canon, makes a canon which contradicts itself

crossnote · Mar 17, 2015

kennethcadwell said:

Yes I know some claim to be lead by the Spirit and are not lead by the Spirit, they maybe lead by a spirit but it may not be the Holy Spirit. That is why the Lord says we will know those who are lead by the Holy Spirit by their fruits. If they speak to others in a unedifying manner, using words that are not proper and their actions are improper to then the bible shows they are not lead by the Holy Spirit. For it clearly states in the bible that the Holy Spirit will not lead one to walk in uncleanness, but in the fruits of the Spirit.
We do have His Holy Word that was written in Hebrew and Greek, and we have the KJV that was proven in a study to be closest to the original texts even though it has minor translation errors itself. That is why the bible says to seek out the answers in prayer to God, and He will give all knowledge through His Holy Spirit. So that we can see beyond the errors of mistranslation and twisting of the word by the versions we have or the individuals who give it.
For we are told to test all spirits, and then means even those we listen to that preach from the pulpit because they may not be from God. If the person preaching denies Jesus as Christ and/or His teachings to keeping them then they are not of the Holy Spirit. Apostle John clearly shows those who abide in Christ and Christ abiding in them keeps His commandments.

We were talking about the testing for canonization of extra-biblical sources weren't we?

Jason0047 · Mar 17, 2015

kennethcadwell said:

Granted, while I do use Modern Translations to update the "Early Modern English" (1600's English) to "Late Modern English" (Today's English), the NKJV makes huge corruptions to God's Word (i.e. the KJV).

It changes:

"soul" (KJV) to....... "living being" (NKJV) (Genesis 2:7)
"sodomites (KJV) to "perverted persons" (NKJV) (1 Kings 14:24, 15:12, etc.)
"which are saved (KJV) to "who are being saved (NKJV) (1 Corinthians 1:18)
"bewitched the people (KJV) to "astonished the people (NKJV) (Acts 8:9)
"They were amazed" (KJV) to "They are dismayed" (NKJV) (Job 32:15)
"repented" (KJV) to "relent" (NKJV) (Matthew 21:32)
"wounds" (KJV) to "tasty triffles" (NKJV) (Proverbs 18:8) Tasty triffles? Really?
"dishonesty" (KJV) to "shame" (NKJV) (2 Corinthians 4:2)
"and let not thy soul spare for his crying." (KJV) to "and do not set your on his destruction." (NKJV) (Proverbs 19:18)

In Isaiah 11:3, the entire phrase "And shall make Him of quick understanding" in the KJV is eliminated in the NKJV, NWT, NASV, NIV, and RSV.

In the footnoes on Daniel 3:25, the NKJV casts doubt on the words, "Son of God" by placing in the footnote: "Or: a son of the gods."

In 2 Timothy 2:15, the KJV says, "Study to shew thyself approved unto God." The NKJV and NASV change "study" to "be diligent." The NIV and RSV change the word "study" to "DO YOUR BEST." There is a big difference in me "studying" versus "being diligent" and or "doing your best."

"to take on" (KJV) to "give aid" (NKJV) (Hebrews 2:16).
Jesus did not take on the nature of angels. Big difference to what the NKJV says.

(KJV) "For verily he took not on [him the nature of] angels; but he took on [him] the seed of Abraham."

(NKJV) "For indeed He does not give aid to angels, but He does give aid to the seed of Abraham."

"God" (KJV) to "divine" (NKJV) (1 Peter 3:20)
I know God was longsuffering as He waited in the days of Noah.
But in the world does "divine longsuffering supposed to mean?

(KJV) "Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water."

(NKJV) "who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while [the] ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water."

"Corrupt" (KJV) to "Peddle" (NKJV) (2 Corinthians 2:17)
The NKJV hides that which it does.
The NKJV corrupts the Word of God elimating the word "corrupt" to some kind of selling of the Word.

(KJV) "For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ."

(NKJV) "For we are not, as so many, peddling the word of God; but as of sincerity, but as from God, we speak in the sight of God in Christ."

Jason0047 · Mar 17, 2015

Side Note:

As for the word "ghost" in the words "Holy Ghost", if you were to do a search on the origin of the word "ghost" you would see that it means,

"Breath: In reference to a spirit."

Online Etymology Dictionary

The biblical canon...any books missing from the Bible that ought to be there?

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