Is tithing our 10%of income part of being a Christian?

[john832]

No it's not part of being a christian, its part of being lied to by wolves/hirelings! Arrogance and avarice. The two hallmarks of the clerical/Nicolaitan con job!

Like Malachi...

Mal 3:8 "Will a man rob God? Yet you have robbed Me! But you say, 'In what way have we robbed You?' In tithes and offerings.
Mal 3:9 You are cursed with a curse, For you have robbed Me, Even this whole nation.
Mal 3:10 Bring all the tithes into the storehouse, That there may be food in My house, And try Me now in this," Says the LORD of hosts, "If I will not open for you the windows of heaven And pour out for you such blessing That there will not be room enough to receive it.
Mal 3:11 "And I will rebuke the devourer for your sakes, So that he will not destroy the fruit of your ground, Nor shall the vine fail to bear fruit for you in the field," Says the LORD of hosts;
Mal 3:12 And all nations will call you blessed, For you will be a delightful land," Says the LORD of hosts.
Mal 3:13 "Your words have been harsh against Me," Says the LORD, Yet you say, 'What have we spoken against You?'
Mal 3:14 You have said, 'It is useless to serve God; What profit is it that we have kept His ordinance, And that we have walked as mourners Before the LORD of hosts?
Mal 3:15 So now we call the proud blessed, For those who do wickedness are raised up; They even tempt God and go free.' "
Mal 3:16 Then those who feared the LORD spoke to one another, And the LORD listened and heard them; So a book of remembrance was written before Him For those who fear the LORD And who meditate on His name.
Mal 3:17 "They shall be Mine," says the LORD of hosts, "On the day that I make them My jewels. And I will spare them As a man spares his own son who serves him."
Mal 3:18 Then you shall again discern Between the righteous and the wicked, Between one who serves God And one who does not serve Him. - NKJV

 

[JimmieD]

Like Malachi...

Mal 3:8 "Will a man rob God? Yet you have robbed Me! But you say, 'In what way have we robbed You?' In tithes and offerings.
Mal 3:9 You are cursed with a curse, For you have robbed Me, Even this whole nation.
Mal 3:10 Bring all the tithes into the storehouse, That there may be food in My house, And try Me now in this," Says the LORD of hosts, "If I will not open for you the windows of heaven And pour out for you such blessing That there will not be room enough to receive it.

What if you don't grow any food or own any livestock?

 

[john832]

What if you don't grow any food or own any livestock?

Uh, do you have any increase?

 

[JimmieD]

Uh, do you have any increase?

Define "increase." I'm see where a tithe is connected with giving food or livestock, but not digital currency (like the digits in my bank account).

 

[JimmieD]

Here's another issue I've noticed - people are taught to give a portion of their income to their local church, but how many actually know what the church does with their money once they give it? Good stewardship isn't simply giving a portion of your income to the church - that would only be half of the process. Good stewardship also involves making sure the money you give is spent appropriately.

How many people honestly know how their church budgets funds? From my experience, most members give money and don't follow up with doing their part to make sure it's spent wisely.

 

[just-me]

Here's another issue I've noticed - people are taught to give a portion of their income to their local church, but how many actually know what the church does with their money once they give it? Good stewardship isn't simply giving a portion of your income to the church - that would only be half of the process. Good stewardship also involves making sure the money you give is spent appropriately.

How many people honestly know how their church budgets funds? From my experience, most members give money and don't follow up with doing their part to make sure it's spent wisely.

Seems that the Bible indicates quite plainly to accompany the tithes and offerings in whatever style or portion a person might give.

 

[JimmieD]

..........nvm

 

[Word_Swordsman]

There is no direct commandment for Chritains to tithe, but Jesus is in heaven receiving tithes. I like knowing he collects mine.
Hebrews 7:7-10 (KJV)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] And without all contradiction the less is blessed of the better.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] And here men that die receive tithes; but there he receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth.
[SUP]9 [/SUP] And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For he was yet in the loins of his father, when Melchisedec met him.

 

[Jon4TheCross]

If a person has access to the holiest of all...they recieve tithes...
If a person does not have such access...they give tithes.

 

[fredjames]

Deuteronomy 14:22-29 (The Message)



22-26 Make an offering of ten percent, a tithe, of all the produce which grows in your fields year after year. Bring this into the Presence of God, your God, at the place he designates for worship and there eat the tithe from your grain, wine, and oil and the firstborn from your herds and flocks. In this way you will learn to live in deep reverence before God, your God, as long as you live. But if the place God, your God, designates for worship is too far away and you can't carry your tithe that far, God, your God, will still bless you: exchange your tithe for money and take the money to the place God, your God, has chosen to be worshiped. Use the money to buy anything you want: cattle, sheep, wine, or beer—anything that looks good to you. You and your family can then feast in the Presence of God, your God, and have a good time.
27 Meanwhile, don't forget to take good care of the Levites who live in your towns; they won't get any property or inheritance of their own as you will. 28-29 At the end of every third year, gather the tithe from all your produce of that year and put it aside in storage. Keep it in reserve for the Levite who won't get any property or inheritance as you will, and for the foreigner, the orphan, and the widow who live in your neighborhood. That way they'll have plenty to eat and God, your God, will bless you in all your work.

Is 'tithing' rewritten in the New Covenant? For this is given in the 'law' of the 'Old' and we are of Grace and no longer under the 'Law of the Letter'.

JESUS raised the standards of 'righteousness' through HIS teachings that 'exceeds' the righteousness of the 'Old' practitioners. In this case, from 'tithing' to 'generous offerings' from the church, that every time a collection is required by in their meetings, believers must be ready with theirs, which has been put aside, for when they are needed.

In the Gospel, JESUS said to HIS disciples, while they were watching the 'offerings' being offered by the people of Israel in the Temple, that the rich gave their 'silvers' and they gave out of their 'abundance', but the widow what she had for that day, she gave them all away and have nothing for later or tomorrow.

If Christians think they are wise in 'tithing', let me remind whether you first of all understand the truth knowledge of 'tithing'?

For example, even if you own a brand new car, 10 percent of the price of that new car goes to GOD as an offering of 'thanksgiving'. How about the others you own as well, because of the 'kindness' of GOD.

In similarity in this world where the Government impose tax on it's citizens that tax is required on every purchases and all incomes.

Thank you and may GOD the FATHER of our LORD JESUS CHRIST bless you with HIS kindness and peace.

 

[Bookends]

The 10% tithe was instituted in Levitical Law to provide support the tribe of Israel who weren't given a land inheritance to grow crops or livestock. They had no other means of support, but only by the other 11 tribes who give 10% to them, the Levitical Priest.

No where in the NT is it commanded to give 10%, However, the Idea is to give as much as you can with a cheerful heart. Paul tells us to support the teacher of word with our goods. Jesus tells us to take care of the poor, widows and the fatherless (orphans). Peter tells us we are all holy priest before the Lord, therefore we are to give for the needs of the Church, this includes all Christians not just the preacher, thus if you see a brother in need you should help them if you are able or in a position to help. No where in the bible are we to charge for the Gospel, it is supposed to be freely given, however, it cost money to spread or transport the Word of God. IMO, Ministers of God should not sign an agreement to a particular salary. The ministers of God should never have the mindset IMO, that ministry is like an ordinary career path like most occupations. But should depend on freewill offerings from the Church. The way we pass the offering plate around I feel can be very intimidating to others who can't give for whatever reason. Also, It must be said that the church members also fail in sharing their goods with the teachers and full time laborers of the church. So perhaps God allows salaries to be agreed upon only be His permissive will.

IMO, we should be giving more then 10%, if we are able and cheerful about it, this requires faith. Not everyone's faith is mature enough to trust in the strong hand of the Lord to provide. If you feel you can't give 10% because of financial situation, then you can give more of time, many churches are in need of local volunteers/workers to help with evangelistic services, which could include just cleaning bathrooms etc. etc.

Having said that, I must admit my wife and I aren't totally there yet. I would love to give more money to further the Kingdom of God, but I try to meet other needs of the church when called to do so, without payment. May God help my wife and I in building up our faith and to trust God for all of our provisions and help us not want the things we don't need. Please lay upon our hearts to help and give in whatever way we can for the furtherance of your Kingdom (I pray this prayer for all Christians as well, Lord).

 

[john832]

Define "increase." I'm see where a tithe is connected with giving food or livestock, but not digital currency (like the digits in my bank account).

Do you think that land or crops had any monetary value?

Lev 25:15 According to the number of years after the Jubilee you shall buy from your neighbor, and according to the number of years of crops he shall sell to you.
Lev 25:16 According to the multitude of years you shall increase its price, and according to the fewer number of years you shall diminish its price; for he sells to you according to the number of the years of the crops.

Land, houses, produce etc all had monetary value then, just as is does today. The idea of money being then means of exchange is not new, it goes back a loooong time.

 

[john832]

Here's another issue I've noticed - people are taught to give a portion of their income to their local church, but how many actually know what the church does with their money once they give it? Good stewardship isn't simply giving a portion of your income to the church - that would only be half of the process. Good stewardship also involves making sure the money you give is spent appropriately.

How many people honestly know how their church budgets funds? From my experience, most members give money and don't follow up with doing their part to make sure it's spent wisely.

I don't believe that it is up to me to control what someone else does once I fulfill my responsibility. I believe that God requires me to tithe. I believe that whomever receives that tithe is responsible to God to use it properly and I think He can take care of that task. I don't have to answer for it once it has left my hands.

 

[john832]

There is no direct commandment for Chritains to tithe, but Jesus is in heaven receiving tithes. I like knowing he collects mine.
Hebrews 7:7-10 (KJV)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] And without all contradiction the less is blessed of the better.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] And here men that die receive tithes; but there he receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth.
[SUP]9 [/SUP] And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For he was yet in the loins of his father, when Melchisedec met him.

Very keen insight. The instruments that God uses to receive His tithe are only that. If they mishandle it, it is on their head and God will judge righteous judgment.

 

[john832]

The 10% tithe was instituted in Levitical Law to provide support the tribe of Israel who weren't given a land inheritance to grow crops or livestock. They had no other means of support, but only by the other 11 tribes who give 10% to them, the Levitical Priest.

No where in the NT is it commanded to give 10%, However, the Idea is to give as much as you can with a cheerful heart. Paul tells us to support the teacher of word with our goods. Jesus tells us to take care of the poor, widows and the fatherless (orphans). Peter tells us we are all holy priest before the Lord, therefore we are to give for the needs of the Church, this includes all Christians not just the preacher, thus if you see a brother in need you should help them if you are able or in a position to help. No where in the bible are we to charge for the Gospel, it is supposed to be freely given, however, it cost money to spread or transport the Word of God. IMO, Ministers of God should not sign an agreement to a particular salary. The ministers of God should never have the mindset IMO, that ministry is like an ordinary career path like most occupations. But should depend on freewill offerings from the Church. The way we pass the offering plate around I feel can be very intimidating to others who can't give for whatever reason. Also, It must be said that the church members also fail in sharing their goods with the teachers and full time laborers of the church. So perhaps God allows salaries to be agreed upon only be His permissive will.

IMO, we should be giving more then 10%, if we are able and cheerful about it, this requires faith. Not everyone's faith is mature enough to trust in the strong hand of the Lord to provide. If you feel you can't give 10% because of financial situation, then you can give more of time, many churches are in need of local volunteers/workers to help with evangelistic services, which could include just cleaning bathrooms etc. etc.

Having said that, I must admit my wife and I aren't totally there yet. I would love to give more money to further the Kingdom of God, but I try to meet other needs of the church when called to do so, without payment. May God help my wife and I in building up our faith and to trust God for all of our provisions and help us not want the things we don't need. Please lay upon our hearts to help and give in whatever way we can for the furtherance of your Kingdom (I pray this prayer for all Christians as well, Lord).

Paul says, in so many words, that he had the right to gather tithes...

1Co 9:1 Am I not an apostle? am I not free? have I not seen Jesus Christ our Lord? are not ye my work in the Lord?
1Co 9:2 If I be not an apostle unto others, yet doubtless I am to you: for the seal of mine apostleship are ye in the Lord.
1Co 9:3 Mine answer to them that do examine me is this,
1Co 9:4 Have we not power to eat and to drink?
1Co 9:5 Have we not power to lead about a sister, a wife, as well as other apostles, and as the brethren of the Lord, and Cephas?
1Co 9:6 Or I only and Barnabas, have not we power to forbear working?
1Co 9:7 Who goeth a warfare any time at his own charges? who planteth a vineyard, and eateth not of the fruit thereof? or who feedeth a flock, and eateth not of the milk of the flock?
1Co 9:8 Say I these things as a man? or saith not the law the same also?
1Co 9:9 For it is written in the law of Moses, Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen?
1Co 9:10 Or saith he it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written: that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope.
1Co 9:11 If we have sown unto you spiritual things, is it a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things?

 

[Bookends]

Paul says, in so many words, that he had the right to gather tithes...

1Co 9:1 Am I not an apostle? am I not free? have I not seen Jesus Christ our Lord? are not ye my work in the Lord?
1Co 9:2 If I be not an apostle unto others, yet doubtless I am to you: for the seal of mine apostleship are ye in the Lord.
1Co 9:3 Mine answer to them that do examine me is this,
1Co 9:4 Have we not power to eat and to drink?
1Co 9:5 Have we not power to lead about a sister, a wife, as well as other apostles, and as the brethren of the Lord, and Cephas?
1Co 9:6 Or I only and Barnabas, have not we power to forbear working?
1Co 9:7 Who goeth a warfare any time at his own charges? who planteth a vineyard, and eateth not of the fruit thereof? or who feedeth a flock, and eateth not of the milk of the flock?
1Co 9:8 Say I these things as a man? or saith not the law the same also?
1Co 9:9 For it is written in the law of Moses, Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen?
1Co 9:10 Or saith he it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written: that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope.
1Co 9:11 If we have sown unto you spiritual things, is it a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things?

It's more of obligation of the Church to support the minister of God then for minister to demand a wage. Did Elisha except a payment from the commander of the army of the king of Syria, Naaman for the physical healing rendered unto him which represents spiritual healing/Salvation? But it was Elisha's servant, Gehazi, who went after payment, it didn't work out well for him in then end. However, Elisha did except gifts from the people on some occasions.

My point is that Pastors should be concerned with ministering to people then how much his paycheck is or where his next position will be up the hierarchical system of clergymen.

 

[JimmieD]

Do you think that land or crops had any monetary value?

So for the tithe, the commands in the Torah are pretty explicit. The tithe is explicitly produce one has grown from the ground or one's own livestock. You can read into it anything you feel like, but it won't change what the text actually says.


Deut14:22 You must be certain to tithe[SUP] [/SUP]all the produce of your seed that comes from the field year after year. ...... 14:28 At the end of every three years you must bring all the tithe of your produce, in that very year, and you must store it up in your villages.

Lev 27:30 “‘Any tithe[SUP] [/SUP]of the land, from the grain of the land or from the fruit of the trees, belongs to the Lord; it is holy to the Lord. 27:31 If a man redeems[SUP] [/SUP]part of his tithe, however, he must add one fifth to it. 27:32 All the tithe of herd or flock, everything which passes under the rod, the tenth one will be holy to the Lord.27:33 The owner must not examine the animals to distinguish between good and bad, and he must not exchange it. If, however, he does exchange it,[SUP] [/SUP]both the original animal[SUP] [/SUP]and its substitute will be holy. It must not be redeemed.’”

More fundamentally, the tithe in ancient Israel was their state's system of taxation. But we're still at the point of simply reading the document for what it says. If you were an Israelite, the tithe is bringing the food you grew or the livestock you owned to the temple priests.

I don't believe that it is up to me to control what someone else does once I fulfill my responsibility.

That just seems irresponsible. It seems to me a duty of a church member is to make sure that the church is using their funds wisely.

I believe that whomever receives that tithe is responsible to God to use it properly and I think He can take care of that task. I don't have to answer for it once it has left my hands.

I think you do have an obligation to make sure the people to who you give the money use it responsibly. This seems pretty basic. Would it be ok if they use it to throw wild bachelor parties? Or spend it all shopping at the mall?

 

[kennethcadwell]

We are told to give from our hearts, and the NT does not hold us to the 10% in tithing as we are told to give what we can from the heart. If those who want to continue to give 10% that is fine as there is nothing wrong with that, just know it has to be from the heart and not out of obligation.


Lord Jesus clearly showed doing it out of obligation is wrong !!!

 

[john832]

So for the tithe, the commands in the Torah are pretty explicit. The tithe is explicitly produce one has grown from the ground or one's own livestock. You can read into it anything you feel like, but it won't change what the text actually says.


Deut14:22 You must be certain to titheall the produce of your seed that comes from the field year after year. ...... 14:28 At the end of every three years you must bring all the tithe of your produce, in that very year, and you must store it up in your villages.

Lev 27:30 “‘Any titheof the land, from the grain of the land or from the fruit of the trees, belongs to the Lord; it is holy to the Lord. 27:31 If a man redeemspart of his tithe, however, he must add one fifth to it. 27:32 All the tithe of herd or flock, everything which passes under the rod, the tenth one will be holy to the Lord.27:33 The owner must not examine the animals to distinguish between good and bad, and he must not exchange it. If, however, he does exchange it,both the original animaland its substitute will be holy. It must not be redeemed.’”

More fundamentally, the tithe in ancient Israel was their state's system of taxation. But we're still at the point of simply reading the document for what it says. If you were an Israelite, the tithe is bringing the food you grew or the livestock you owned to the temple priests.



That just seems irresponsible. It seems to me a duty of a church member is to make sure that the church is using their funds wisely.



I think you do have an obligation to make sure the people to who you give the money use it responsibly. This seems pretty basic. Would it be ok if they use it to throw wild bachelor parties? Or spend it all shopping at the mall?

And I am the one called a Pharisee here.

 

[JimmieD]

And I am the one called a Pharisee here.

Sure, I'm a Pharisee (minus all that stuff that actually made one a Pharisee).


You're the one saying the law ought to be followed, but you refuse to even acknowledge what it says about the tithe. BTW, that doesn't make you a Pharisee - Pharisees would have recognized that you don't follow the law.