Christianity for Dummies

[Yet]

As a new believer, the forgiveness message was the first thing I had to grapple with. It was like walking into a corral full of kicking and biting donkeys. I'm talking Christendom. Not outright jabs. Mainly the rejection and despising deal of Isaiah 53 that Jesus endured. That's painful, especially when you grew up feeling like a worm in the first place.
I honestly thought that we were finally going to have some real friends...a family setting, all reading from the same page, in one accord with Jesus as our Leader! I was horrified to find out that that wasn't going to happen! There were a few others who caught that vision but because the way 'church' is done, no fruit would ever come to maturity.

When we first started going to church, I played a song called 'I Love You' from the movie 'A Time to Run', and was hoping the fire this song instilled in us would catch hold with the 'church'. Zip, nada, zero, belly up. This really threw us a left curve. Where was God, where was the Spirit. What a let down. There on forward we simply 'endured church', hoping that maybe it would change. The rejection continued by pastors concerning our ministry. I spent 27 years with this question 'what's wrong with me, what's wrong with me?' The worm syndrome.

After about 27 years of abuse, God brought it home to me in a powerful way.....'Forgive them all'! Then he did a twist with it.
He told me to call everyone I could that slam dunked me and cold shouldered me and ask them to forgive me for holding a grudge about it. How's that for a twist?
I even wrote a letter to my dad who had been dead since '74 and asked him to forgive me. Of course he couldn't read it but I got it out of my system. God did a miracle in me. That root of bitterness was pulled out of me.

Sad thing is that everyone I called didnt receive it very well. They didn't get it.

So forgiveness is something you better have on tap daily. If you 'dare to surrender all', you're gonna need it! Your're gonna get your caboose kicked. All part of His greater plan!

For those of you who have a sloppy 'christianity', you won't get hit as hard. In fact you'll probably be one of the 'kickers'!
'he who (really) departs from evil, makes himself a target.' Isaiah 59:15
Is that where you are at or are you going 'Huh?'

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Do words actually have meaning for you? The type of people who respond like you to simple words are avoiding something.

It is not worldly to acknowledge something hurts. That is human. It is worldly to retaliate and cause hurt back.
If you are hit on your left cheek, turn the right also.

yeah, words do have meaning.

you want to be hurt and lash out and not forgive. thats what the world does.

We are called to respond with love. Have you ever wondered where that love comes from? It is not from the world, it is not possible to love while being beaten up, unless you are in love with the person or a masochist.

what does this have to do with the love of God?

We respond in love because we know we are loved by Jesus, loved at such a deep level nothing could take it away from us. Now what you appear to be saying to me is, I do not love, but react to the pain with anger and violence.
Funny, but I do not, I respond with love and pray for the person hurting me.

do you forgive him before he asks? or demand he ask first?

Now you are unaware that most people deny they are hurt by most things. "Sticks and stones can break my bones but words can never hurt me."

This is a phrase commonly used in the UK by children. It is also a lie.

Paul considered being shipwrecked, stoned and left for dead. imprisoned, etc etc a momentary light affliction. you saying a person can infict on you more pain that than, that you have to respond in anger or something?

it is not getting hurt that is the issue, it is our response, or is this over your head?

So I wonder who are you? A troll who reflects back the opposite someone is saying to wind them up? May the Lord bless you, and I forgive you, from a heart filled with Jesus, because I know he has saved me. I had forgotten what this feels like because I have had muslims do this for years, it becomes a joke. I did not expect it from "christians" but hay ho, it is a strange world...

me a troll?

I see you say we should act like the world. (respond to pain and it took you a few more posts to say thats not what you were saying, when you could have said it in your first post and we did not have this discussion/ I guess people are supposed to read you rmind?) Judge others, puff yourself up with the sins you do not commit. Condemn a good brother of mine who you have absolutely no idea what he believes. And I call you out on it. and you call me a troll?

Your the troll my friend, you make statements then deny them. and try to turn it on someone else. When it is you who are not trying to understand what people actually believe.

 

[PeterJens]

yeah, words do have meaning.

you want to be hurt and lash out and not forgive. thats what the world does.

eternally - You cannot read properly. Or maybe there is a spiritual problem here. In your mind I am an enemy, and you must find a reason to hate me. Well to date you have not found one, so I suggest where ever your sixth sense is it is wrong.

Now I know words very well, and know what I mean in minute detail. Let me go through what I said.
A person hurts me. Says I am stupid. I feel the hurt, I know it hurts because it is a lie, I did the right thing, for good reason and it implies I do not know what I am doing. I forgive them, not because they ask, but because they are doing it for their own reasons, and I am not at fault.

Now you suggest because I recognise the hurt, work through why I am hurt, understand what my position and intentions are I am somehow wrong. Now to confirm I am just responding out of pride, you make the suggestion I will only forgive if asked.

Now ofcourse I have not spelt out all these steps before and allow the reader to add their understanding as well, but the point I am making is it is essential to recognise you are hurt. Without this step, many things go wrong, and hurt builds up until it explodes out and spoils a good situation. This is what people called emotional intelligence.

But maybe I give you too much credit to be so self aware or even know of emotional intelligence or that Jesus calls us to understand our emotions, like mourning, weeping, sorrow, repentance, forgiveness, love, hope, patience, peace etc.

Unfortunately the more you dig into this issue the more the gospels will answer my calling.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

eternally - You cannot read properly. Or maybe there is a spiritual problem here. In your mind I am an enemy, and you must find a reason to hate me. Well to date you have not found one, so I suggest where ever your sixth sense is it is wrong.

I hate you, yet your the one cutting and pasting my responses up and not getting the whole picture.

I am just telling you what I heard you say, your original post was ALL about being hurt, and nothing about how we are supposed to respond to that hurt.

if you did not mean it, say I am sorry, I meant to say this also. otherwise, how are we supposed to respond?

Now I know words very well, and know what I mean in minute detail. Let me go through what I said.
A person hurts me. Says I am stupid. I feel the hurt, I know it hurts because it is a lie, I did the right thing, for good reason and it implies I do not know what I am doing. I forgive them, not because they ask, but because they are doing it for their own reasons, and I am not at fault.

see how insincere you are.

this is what you said.

"I want to be able to forgive my brother for an insult before it happens so I do not even get upset."
This is fanciful nonsense. It comes from people living in a world where everyone is so very nice, and nothing "bad" has happened for years. It is also a lie, and the real hurts and lack of forgiveness and bitterness at disappointments, lack of recognition, unrequited love, sexual desires, lie below the surface. The first question one needs to ask, how do you feel about your parents and your upbringing, your siblings? Too many times people who talk the way I have read here have not begun this walk

So some christians here are living in a very nice social bubble which simply does not relate to real life. No wonder the churches in some areas are declining if this is the level of understanding. And these people think they have reached spiritual maturity? There is a big shock coming...

.

see. now as I said you do. you twist that around, and claim you said somethign else.

again, how else would one respond to this kind of post. You said in plain words. christians who do not react to pain in a loving manor live in a bubble. and not the real world.

now are you going to be honest, or keep up this false front?

Now you suggest because I recognise the hurt, work through why I am hurt, understand what my position and intentions are I am somehow wrong. Now to confirm I am just responding out of pride, you make the suggestion I will only forgive if asked.

I am just going off what you said to begin with, I just posted what you said. and it does not say what you are claiming now. if you made a mistake live up to it, and stop trying to hide being strawmen.

Now ofcourse I have not spelt out all these steps before and allow the reader to add their understanding as well, but the point I am making is it is essential to recognise you are hurt. Without this step, many things go wrong, and hurt builds up until it explodes out and spoils a good situation. This is what people called emotional intelligence.

a child of God does not need to recognize they are hurt, Maybe in the beginning they do. But as a child matures, they do not react to things as much, because they do not sting as much. When they get to this point, they just need to trust God and react to pain the right way.

You live in a world of self. And you can't even admit it.

But maybe I give you too much credit to be so self aware or even know of emotional intelligence or that Jesus calls us to understand our emotions, like mourning, weeping, sorrow, repentance, forgiveness, love, hope, patience, peace etc.

Unfortunately the more you dig into this issue the more the gospels will answer my calling.

The gospels do not answer your calling. You said we who look at hurt like a momentary light affliction live in a social bubble, and are preaching fanciful nonsense.

Paul would not agree with you one iota

what did Jesus say? When someone slaps you, turn the other cheek and give that one to slap also. Does it hurt? Yeah, Is it going to destroy us when we are trusting in christ? Not a chance.

 

[eyesonly]

As a new believer, the forgiveness message was the first thing I had to grapple with. It was like walking into a corral full of kicking and biting donkeys. I'm talking Christendom. Not outright jabs. Mainly the rejection and despising deal of Isaiah 53 that Jesus endured. That's painful, especially when you grew up feeling like a worm in the first place.
I honestly thought that we were finally going to have some real friends...a family setting, all reading from the same page, in one accord with Jesus as our Leader! I was horrified to find out that that wasn't going to happen! There were a few others who caught that vision but because the way 'church' is done, no fruit would ever come to maturity.

When we first started going to church, I played a song called 'I Love You' from the movie 'A Time to Run', and was hoping the fire this song instilled in us would catch hold with the 'church'. Zip, nada, zero, belly up. This really threw us a left curve. Where was God, where was the Spirit. What a let down. There on forward we simply 'endured church', hoping that maybe it would change. The rejection continued by pastors concerning our ministry. I spent 27 years with this question 'what's wrong with me, what's wrong with me?' The worm syndrome.

After about 27 years of abuse, God brought it home to me in a powerful way.....'Forgive them all'! Then he did a twist with it.
He told me to call everyone I could that slam dunked me and cold shouldered me and ask them to forgive me for holding a grudge about it. How's that for a twist?
I even wrote a letter to my dad who had been dead since '74 and asked him to forgive me. Of course he couldn't read it but I got it out of my system. God did a miracle in me. That root of bitterness was pulled out of me.

Sad thing is that everyone I called didnt receive it very well. They didn't get it.

So forgiveness is something you better have on tap daily. If you 'dare to surrender all', you're gonna need it! Your're gonna get your caboose kicked. All part of His greater plan!

For those of you who have a sloppy 'christianity', you won't get hit as hard. In fact you'll probably be one of the 'kickers'!
'he who (really) departs from evil, makes himself a target.' Isaiah 59:15
Is that where you are at or are you going 'Huh?'

If we could only bottle this up and inject into all the religious Christians, and into the non believers so they can see what true Christianity is all about and not what they are witness to.

Christ in not only in you brother but you are in Christ. I can see the smile on God thinking to himself, "yes, another one of my
children GET IT "

 

[eyesonly]

ETERNALLY-GRATEFULL and PETERJENS, please, the word is not to be argued about. You two are examples of what Christians are not supposed to be doing. Arguing and trying to best each other.

I respectfully ask you two to cease your confrontation of each other, and offer opinions on the thread topic or take your fight
elsewhere please.
Continue your fight with private messages please if you wish, please don't pollute this thread with such trivial fighting.

thank you kindly

God bless

 

[PeterJens]

......

Boy I understand why you have so much of a problem. A chain of thought is just that. It contains linked ideas, which need to be strung together to get the meaning. Maybe you do too much reading in to everything.

Hyper sensitivity is where people become so refined the smallest issue is the end of the world.
Now a real issue is someone commiting adultery, or theft, or abuse of their wife or children, or alcoholism, or depression, or abuse at work. Or young people who have no-one to call a loving adult, or addiction to drugs, or people holding hurts from childhood, or phobias, or PTSD, or panic attacks, or anxiety disorders.

You want to say I am insincere. Well that is your judgement. I do not know where you see that.

There is a problem in language, and it is reading in what you want to what someone says, when they intended something else. Now I am sorry if you now understand what I intended but read it a different way. That is why communication is important and discussion so we avoid these problems.

Unfortunately I am not into your battle of ideas, or saying I am hiding anything. I express my point of view and that is it.
I thank you for the effort you put in, but I am not sure what you get out of it.

As I said before you want to make opponents before they exist and start up based on what you think they are saying.
I unfortunately do not have the energy or time to work out what your problem is, but it is very real, and as I said before you need professional help.

 

[PeterJens]

Sorry, I did not mean to pollute your discussion. I have no fight with eternally, he just wants to pick points for some unknown reason, I will try not to encourage him.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

ETERNALLY-GRATEFULL and PETERJENS, please, the word is not to be argued about. You two are examples of what Christians are not supposed to be doing. Arguing and trying to best each other.

I respectfully ask you two to cease your confrontation of each other, and offer opinions on the thread topic or take your fight
elsewhere please.
Continue your fight with private messages please if you wish, please don't pollute this thread with such trivial fighting.

thank you kindly

God bless

lol.I am not trying to best him. That is not the intention. the intention is to expose someone who is making false claims about others. And is blind to it.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Boy I understand why you have so much of a problem. A chain of thought is just that. It contains linked ideas, which need to be strung together to get the meaning. Maybe you do too much reading in to everything.

Hyper sensitivity is where people become so refined the smallest issue is the end of the world.
Now a real issue is someone commiting adultery, or theft, or abuse of their wife or children, or alcoholism, or depression, or abuse at work. Or young people who have no-one to call a loving adult, or addiction to drugs, or people holding hurts from childhood, or phobias, or PTSD, or panic attacks, or anxiety disorders.

You want to say I am insincere. Well that is your judgement. I do not know where you see that.

There is a problem in language, and it is reading in what you want to what someone says, when they intended something else. Now I am sorry if you now understand what I intended but read it a different way. That is why communication is important and discussion so we avoid these problems.

Unfortunately I am not into your battle of ideas, or saying I am hiding anything. I express my point of view and that is it.
I thank you for the effort you put in, but I am not sure what you get out of it.

As I said before you want to make opponents before they exist and start up based on what you think they are saying.
I unfortunately do not have the energy or time to work out what your problem is, but it is very real, and as I said before you need professional help.

Utter nonsence. You can not even respond to my posts. And I am sick of you turning things around and saying I say something I never said, or someone else said something they never said.

So please do us a favor and go find your fantasy world. Crawl up in it. And learn some humility.

Until then, no one can discuss anything with you. for all we can assume is you just want to fight. Good luck with that.

 

[eyesonly]

As a new believer, the forgiveness message was the first thing I had to grapple with. It was like walking into a corral full of kicking and biting donkeys. I'm talking Christendom. Not outright jabs. Mainly the rejection and despising deal of Isaiah 53 that Jesus endured. That's painful, especially when you grew up feeling like a worm in the first place.
I honestly thought that we were finally going to have some real friends...a family setting, all reading from the same page, in one accord with Jesus as our Leader! I was horrified to find out that that wasn't going to happen! There were a few others who caught that vision but because the way 'church' is done, no fruit would ever come to maturity.

When we first started going to church, I played a song called 'I Love You' from the movie 'A Time to Run', and was hoping the fire this song instilled in us would catch hold with the 'church'. Zip, nada, zero, belly up. This really threw us a left curve. Where was God, where was the Spirit. What a let down. There on forward we simply 'endured church', hoping that maybe it would change. The rejection continued by pastors concerning our ministry. I spent 27 years with this question 'what's wrong with me, what's wrong with me?' The worm syndrome.

After about 27 years of abuse, God brought it home to me in a powerful way.....'Forgive them all'! Then he did a twist with it.
He told me to call everyone I could that slam dunked me and cold shouldered me and ask them to forgive me for holding a grudge about it. How's that for a twist?
I even wrote a letter to my dad who had been dead since '74 and asked him to forgive me. Of course he couldn't read it but I got it out of my system. God did a miracle in me. That root of bitterness was pulled out of me.

Sad thing is that everyone I called didnt receive it very well. They didn't get it.

So forgiveness is something you better have on tap daily. If you 'dare to surrender all', you're gonna need it! Your're gonna get your caboose kicked. All part of His greater plan!

For those of you who have a sloppy 'christianity', you won't get hit as hard. In fact you'll probably be one of the 'kickers'!
'he who (really) departs from evil, makes himself a target.' Isaiah 59:15
Is that where you are at or are you going 'Huh?'

You see, this kind of forgiveness is not only for the trespassers, it is to free the trespassee from their own imprisonment. Once you are free at this stage, forgiveness is a perpetual state of existence. You have heaped coals of fire on their heads Yet.
They may not reveal their real feelings to what you have done by asking forgiveness for holding their trespass against them but you can be assured they are wondering what the heck is going on. "how is this guy asking for forgiveness for something i did to him".
This is showing what true Christianity is all about. This how we may change just one unbeliever who may say," wow, i want to be able to act like that, how do i do it."

Thank you Yet for sharing this and God bless you for listening to the lord and following his directions with faith.
The lord also showed me this place of perpetual forgiveness and the spiritual freedom that awaits. I am not fully there but
the path has been shown to me.

God bless

 

[PeterJens]

Love your neighbour as yourself

This is often the most miss-understood commandment. It is about treating someone how you would want to be treated yourself by others. Some take this idea to mean ignoring sin, or evil behaviour, or inappropriate actions, but rather it is about being a responsible member of society. The principle is to love the sinner but not the sin, meaning justice needs to be done, but meeting the needs of your neighbour where you can is an important requirement.

 

[PeterJens]

Utter nonsence.

I say nothing :-I

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Love your neighbour as yourself

This is often the most miss-understood commandment. It is about treating someone how you would want to be treated yourself by others. Some take this idea to mean ignoring sin, or evil behaviour, or inappropriate actions, but rather it is about being a responsible member of society. The principle is to love the sinner but not the sin, meaning justice needs to be done, but meeting the needs of your neighbour where you can is an important requirement.

Love your neighbor as yourself means to put his needs and his desires above that of your own. The way Christ did his entire life up to and beyond the cross.

You can't just say love as you would yourself. People do not love themselves that much, so loving others as themselves would not mean very much now would it?

Meeting needs of neighbor is JUST an important requirement? seems God placed our needs above his own, and would say it is far more than just an important requirement.

Do you even know who your neighbor is? Your enemy is your neighbor. or did you not know that?

 

[PeterJens]

Loving your neighbour.

If you are to love your neighbour above yourself that is what the commandment would say. It is love your neighbour as you love yourself. If you put his needs and priorities above yours, you are making him your master and you his slave, which is heretical.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Loving your neighbour.

If you are to love your neighbour above yourself that is what the commandment would say. It is love your neighbour as you love yourself. If you put his needs and priorities above yours, you are making him your master and you his slave, which is heretical.

Jesus said, I did not come to be served, I cam to serve. and we are to do the same.

what is heretical is to say we are to deny self (not love self). and love others in that same way.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Jesus said, I did not come to be served, I cam to serve. and we are to do the same.

what is heretical is to say we are to deny self (not love self). and love others in that same way.

to add. Jesus used the term agape love, which is the greatest form of love there is. It is not love as a brother, it is love far greater than that, it is unconditional love.

 

[eyesonly]

to add. Jesus used the term agape love, which is the greatest form of love there is. It is not love as a brother, it is love far greater than that, it is unconditional love.

Can you share the bible passage where jesus uses the term agape love. i would like to read up on that.
thanks and much appreciated.

God bless

 

[ember]

so, I've been reading the thread and I agree in principal...I might quibble abit here and there...but maybe I am just asking myself questions....

I think you have put some thought into this and I appreciate that....

Maybe we could discuss this:

21“You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, ‘You shall not murder,[SUP]a[/SUP] and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.’ 22But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister[SUP]b[/SUP] [SUP]c[/SUP] will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to a brother or sister, ‘Raca,’[SUP]d[/SUP] is answerable to the court. And anyone who says, ‘You fool!’ will be in danger of the fire of hell.23“Therefore, if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother or sister has something against you, 24leave your gift there in front of the altar. First go and be reconciled to them; then come and offer your gift.25“Settle matters quickly with your adversary who is taking you to court. Do it while you are still together on the way, or your adversary may hand you over to the judge, and the judge may hand you over to the officer, and you may be thrown into prison. 26Truly I tell you, you will not get out until you have paid the last penny. Matthew 5

with respect in particular to what is in green above, but the whole thing generally...

when I look at verses 23 & 24 (green) seems God puts getting things right with other believers before we approach Him...with our 'gifts'...

1. What do we 'see' as gifts

2. Has anyone ever actually 'left their gift' and gone and reconciled

and I'm thinking about something else too, but that's prob enough to chew on for now

Thanks! (ps...this is for honest discussion...I'm not going in with preconceived answers here even though I have looked into this for my own benefit)

 

[PeterJens]

Love your neighbour as you love yourself

This is the commandment, making your neighbour equal to yourself.
Now you can choose to show your neighbour sacrifical love, but you are not commanded to. You are commanded to love your christian brothers as Jesus loved you. This is laying down your life to save another. The problem here is simple, christians often add to a commandment rather than understand its true meaning in context.
It is not loving to say to a thief come and take all my belonging, or to a rapest, come and rape me and my wife, or a arsonist, come and burn down my home. These ideas are about levels of authority and distance drawn between family, friends, neighbours, enemies, and making them different.
For instance turning the other cheek is about insult and not taking offence, but loving the individual and not rising to provocation. But it does not mean avoiding justice or defence of law and order. That is why every concept needs to be addressed carefully, and balanced else you justify chaos, because boundaries are their for a simple practical purpose, but Jesus is often asking us to change them because of the love he has planted within us.