The Number Three

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oldhermit

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2012
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#41
I do not accept man will spend eternity in hell. I accept man will be destroyed in hell as the second death for eternity.
The idea of eternal torture for a mortal who knew nothing of his lostness, and could not save himself, sounds wrong.
I was suprised to learn the main support for eternal torture is the parable of Lazarus, but this is Hades, which will be destroyed in the lake of fire. Now christians often talk about justice so much, balancing out what you stole with how much you repay. So if the only known sin in your life is stealing, and you are in hell, is the torture less than if you murdered?
And what is the point of torture? If a mortal indulgence worth an eternity of suffering? Where is the love and justice in that?
Jesus and the apostles talked about eternal life, because another temporary life seemed so insignificant. The word eternal only makes sense if death is the end. And as soon as you make man an eternal spirit, it then becomes, did he exist before he was created, and can repeat life until he gets it right? Why not bounce from life to life, gaining spirituality until you reach perfection? So you get purgatory, torture for a time, until you learnt your lesson.

So I think this idea of success, earning your way to heaven or earning punishment of different levels leads to error.
The seed on the threshing floor, the husks are just burnt up, the weeds pulled up and burnt up. What is the point of making a mortal eternal to just torture them?
This is a separate issue that we can discuss on another thread.
 
Feb 24, 2015
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#42
I will tell you what convinced me most about hell. Islam. Muhammed has this idea of flesh is grown you your body, to be burnt off and regrown, and burnt off forever. It is just absured, and a very sick mind thought this up.

Now look around the church. The second death is worth avoiding, but better yet to have love and life in your heart. How much condemnation and terror has been preached, when in reality it was care, love, compassion people needed. Ofcourse it is easy to be violent and agressive, look at the inquisition or burning people at the stake. I mean if you are doomed to torture forever, why not have a bit of torture today, you might even repent. So this idea has led to unbelievably bad behaviour.
 
Feb 24, 2015
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#43
On the theme of number 3 there are 3 in Islam as well.
The attributes of God, God himself and the Koran.
In their thinking all 3 are eternal and God.
You will notice in fits with the trinity, the attibutes of God is the Holy Spirit, the Father is God the creator and his message or word, is Jesus the living man.
 
Mar 12, 2015
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#44
I answered this in post #26. I know it is rather long but for five minutes of you time you may gain something worth your investment of time.
Since you posted to Dan I didn't read it and I was answering Dan not you. What the hey, are you the leader of the pack now?

I had to groom my Toy Poodle and was popping in and out of the thread and I was giving my attention to the posts directed at me.
 

oldhermit

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2012
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#45
Since you posted to Dan I didn't read it and I was answering Dan not you. What the hey, are you the leader of the pack now?

I had to groom my Toy Poodle and was popping in and out of the thread and I was giving my attention to the posts directed at me.
LOL. No I am no one's leader. I apologize if that was offensive in any way.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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#46
My study bible says:

No man hath seen God: That is, no one has ever seen God in all His essence, since God is Spirit (4:24).

Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honor and power evelasting. Amen 1Tim.6:16


God is a spirit and no man can see Him, it has nothing to do with understand Him, God is spirit and not able to be seen with our eyes.
a facinating topic!

from Isaiah, " In the year that king Uzziah died, I saw the Lord..." Isaiah says he's seen the Lord, the 'YHWH'

does your study bible affirm that Jesus is God? (and maybe it doesn't... I'm new on this thread...) how does it handle the idea that people could see Jesus?
 
T

Tintin

Guest
#48
Jacob, not Abraham, wrestled with God. King Belshazzer, not Moses, saw God's hand writing on the wall. Please read your Bible!
 
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oldhermit

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2012
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#49
Jacob, not Abraham, wrestled with God. King Darius, not Moses, saw God's hand writing on the wall. Please read your Bible!
LOL. I corrected him on Jacob. I completely missed the comment about Moses.
 
M

microscoped

Guest
#51
If Jacob wrestled with God and Adam walked with him Belshazzar witnessed the hand of God Moses did see Gods hand in front of his face unless of course you think he closed his eyes. Isaiah seen the Lord. I myself had a vision of God while in the middle of casting out demons. The Godhead is three manifestations of one God and Jesus no doubt was seen. how can all this be if no man can see God other than the full manifestation of Hus glory in which Moses had asked for and seen his back and hand. Old hermit one must not super analyze the simplicity of the scriptures. God has made salvation simple and the reading of the Word simple as well. Although theology is fun to debate theology will not get you into heaven. I believe many who have answered here are right and when we get to heaven we can all see that I am more right. lol.
 
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Tintin

Guest
#52
I believe the instances where people saw God, they saw/wrestled with Jesus, who later came to earth veiled in flesh. Not God, the Father, but God the Son. Christ, pre-incarnate.
 

oldhermit

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2012
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#53
I believe the instances where people saw God, they saw/wrestled with Jesus, who later came to earth veiled in flesh. Not God, the Father, but God the Son. Christ, pre-incarnate.
It is interesting that they ask this question so I go through the trouble to post an exegesis to answer the question and no one bothered to read it but continue to ask the same question over and over. All I can do is post the answer. I can't make them read it.
 
M

microscoped

Guest
#54
Tintin if Jesus be the body and the Holy Spirit be spirit is it not possible that God the Father be the soul of the Godhead and they together be body soul and spirit of the full glory of God?
 

oldhermit

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Jul 28, 2012
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#55
Tintin if Jesus be the body and the Holy Spirit be spirit is it not possible that God the Father be the soul of the Godhead and they together be body soul and spirit of the full glory of God?
Why would you come to this conclusion?
 
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Tintin

Guest
#56
Tintin if Jesus be the body and the Holy Spirit be spirit is it not possible that God the Father be the soul of the Godhead and they together be body soul and spirit of the full glory of God?
Jesus is God/man now and when He walked this earth. But before then, He was just God. Not man. So your theory is interesting, but doesn't hold up. I would say that God is Spirit. Three persons united in One purpose.
 
M

microscoped

Guest
#57
My conclusion was made because it is what makes sense I have dealt with the spiritual side of the business with many exorcisms and meeting with and talking with many in cults. We are body soul and spirit. Some cult practices are the traveling of the soul along lay lines the same practices as outlined in Ezekial 13 done by false prophets and prophetesses. This is done by the power of demons. Satan mimics good. If he is mimicking something with the leaving of the soul out of the body it would only point to God since we are made in Gods image the word of God says " made in our likeness" not our likenesses.
 

oldhermit

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2012
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#58
My conclusion was made because it is what makes sense I have dealt with the spiritual side of the business with many exorcisms and meeting with and talking with many in cults. We are body soul and spirit. Some cult practices are the traveling of the soul along lay lines the same practices as outlined in Ezekial 13 done by false prophets and prophetesses. This is done by the power of demons. Satan mimics good. If he is mimicking something with the leaving of the soul out of the body it would only point to God since we are made in Gods image the word of God says " made in our likeness" not our likenesses.
What on earth does this have to do with the theory that God is or possesses a soul? Scripture is the ONLY revealed source of information we have that offers us a picture of the nature of God and nowhere is it ever suggested that God possesses a soul.
 
M

microscoped

Guest
#59
On the contrary God breathed into Adam and Adam became a soul. For God to breathe into him a soul it must have originated inside God. Or how else could He breathe out what us not inside Him?
 

oldhermit

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2012
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#60
On the contrary God breathed into Adam and Adam became a soul. For God to breathe into him a soul it must have originated inside God. Or how else could He breathe out what us not inside Him?
The fact that God created a soul for man in no way suggests that God himself IS a soul.