Salvation Not Possible Without Works
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So you are saying one can be saved WITHOUT the work of believing, WITHOUT the work of repenting, WITHOUT the work of confession, WITHOUT the work of submitting to baptism for remission of sins....which is IMPOSSIBLE for the unbeliever, impenitent, denier of Christ in his unforgiven sins is lost, not saved as you have it.
Sir, what you are talking about is simply good works, not works of faith.
No one seems to understand what faith actually is or how it works.
Just because you give to the poor and help the helpless and do so in the name of Christ in love, does not mean nor does it make it a work of faith, as faith was not applied to the work. It is merely a good work or deed that was done.
No one seems to understand what faith actually is or how it works.
Just because you give to the poor and help the helpless and do so in the name of Christ in love, does not mean nor does it make it a work of faith, as faith was not applied to the work. It is merely a good work or deed that was done.
In order to come to Him you MUST have FAITH that HE exists. If you do not faith that God even exists (Which takes faith) how CAN you repent?
Hebrews 6
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.
Hebrews 6
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.
Believing is a work.
Repentance is a work.
Confession is a work.
Passively submitting to baptism for remission of sins is a work.
So if one is first saved THEN does works, then you are claiming one is saved in unbelief, while impenitent and a denier of Christ still in his unforgiven sins. So you have it backwards for one must FIRST do the works of believing, repenting, confessing, submitting to baptism for remission of sins THEN he can be saved.
Repentance is a work.
Confession is a work.
Passively submitting to baptism for remission of sins is a work.
So if one is first saved THEN does works, then you are claiming one is saved in unbelief, while impenitent and a denier of Christ still in his unforgiven sins. So you have it backwards for one must FIRST do the works of believing, repenting, confessing, submitting to baptism for remission of sins THEN he can be saved.
There are those here arguing that "do nothing" faith is what saves. Then after you have been saved by a "do nothing" faith, then you can do works. Problem is that "do nothing" faith is dead and cannot save. They try to get themselves save by a dead faith THEN do works.
If no work is not necessary BEFORE one is saved, then why would any work be necessary AFTER one is saved?
If no work is not necessary BEFORE one is saved, then why would any work be necessary AFTER one is saved?
Good works are not forced or legalistic for the GENUINE believer. One MUST place their faith in Jesus Christ for salvation (and not in works) in order to be saved, no choice in the matter (Ephesians 2:8,9). Believers are created in Christ Jesus UNTO/FOR good works that we should walk in them. It's not about we "must or else" produce good works in order to be saved but that we WILL produce good works IF we are truly saved. You still have it backwards.
A Christian that produces no good works at all = OXYMORON (James 2:14-24; 1 John 3:9,10). No good works by the Christian = demonstrative evidence that this person who "professes" to be a Christian is not a genuine Christian in the first place. Faith is the root and works are the fruit of salvation. No fruit demonstrates that there is no root. All genuine Christians are fruitful, but not all are equally fruitful.
You clearly teach salvation BY WORKS. No doubt about it. Faith is man's role in his salvation. The act of obedience that saves is choosing to believe the gospel (Romans 1:16; 10:16). From beginning "have been saved through faith" (Ephesians 2:8) to end "receiving the end of your faith--the salvation of your souls" (1 Peter 1:9) salvation is by grace through faith and is not by works. How do good works cause us to "remain" saved? So how many so called obedient works must you accomplish and "add as a supplement" to Christ's finished work of redemption in order to "help" Him save you?
A Christian that produces no good works at all = OXYMORON (James 2:14-24; 1 John 3:9,10). No good works by the Christian = demonstrative evidence that this person who "professes" to be a Christian is not a genuine Christian in the first place. Faith is the root and works are the fruit of salvation. No fruit demonstrates that there is no root. All genuine Christians are fruitful, but not all are equally fruitful.
You clearly teach salvation BY WORKS. No doubt about it. Faith is man's role in his salvation. The act of obedience that saves is choosing to believe the gospel (Romans 1:16; 10:16). From beginning "have been saved through faith" (Ephesians 2:8) to end "receiving the end of your faith--the salvation of your souls" (1 Peter 1:9) salvation is by grace through faith and is not by works. How do good works cause us to "remain" saved? So how many so called obedient works must you accomplish and "add as a supplement" to Christ's finished work of redemption in order to "help" Him save you?
One is either a servant of righteousness or unrighteousness.
The servants of unrighteousness will be lost.
The servants of righteousness will be saved.
So how does one go from being a servant of unrighteousness to a servant of righteousness?
Some here will say by "doing nothing", doing no works. But how in the world can one ever become a servant of righteousness when he has not done any righteousness at all? How can you be a slave to some thing you have not ever done? How can you be a slave to cigarette smoking if you never smoked?
Paul sows in Rom 6:16-18 that one;
1)servant of unrighteousness
2) obeys from the heart that form of doctrine
3) THEN freed from sin, a servant of righteousness
Note how Paul has one FIRST DOING RIGHTEOUSNESS (obeying from the heart) BEFORE they are servants of righteousness.
The servants of unrighteousness will be lost.
The servants of righteousness will be saved.
So how does one go from being a servant of unrighteousness to a servant of righteousness?
Some here will say by "doing nothing", doing no works. But how in the world can one ever become a servant of righteousness when he has not done any righteousness at all? How can you be a slave to some thing you have not ever done? How can you be a slave to cigarette smoking if you never smoked?
Paul sows in Rom 6:16-18 that one;
1)servant of unrighteousness
2) obeys from the heart that form of doctrine
3) THEN freed from sin, a servant of righteousness
Note how Paul has one FIRST DOING RIGHTEOUSNESS (obeying from the heart) BEFORE they are servants of righteousness.
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---You admit believing is a work, it is a work a work that must be done BEFORE one can be saved.
---the work of believing INCLUDES the works or repentance, confession and baptism for Christ does not contradict Himself. He did NOT say, "this is the work of God, that you believe only" for He would be contradicting Himself if He had said such for having said repentance saves confession saves baptism saves and NEVER said belief only saves.
---the work of believing INCLUDES the works or repentance, confession and baptism for Christ does not contradict Himself. He did NOT say, "this is the work of God, that you believe only" for He would be contradicting Himself if He had said such for having said repentance saves confession saves baptism saves and NEVER said belief only saves.
" ....for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him."
Diligently seeking is a work. Abel and Enoch of Heb 11:4,5 are examples of what v6 is talking about, they were both obedient men obeying what God said. Thenthe context speaks of Noah, Abraham and many others that diligently sought God by an obedient faith......BY FAITH Noah moved with fear (obeyed)....BY FAITH Abraham...OBEYED
I thought I'd post this on this thread also. It pertains.
So many today say that Jesus does it all, and works is only from oneself and not of faith. I say it depends on how a person is taking that. First off, our every breath is given to us, and our heart beats with involuntary muscles. We have no say so about our life's end unless we invoke something else in order to stop living. It's God's call only, or at least it should be. Faith without works is dead, and works without faith proves nothing except a self image of righteousness. On the same token, if one says that they have faith without works, their faith is in vain. It's ones perspective under even given truthful circumstance.
So what are we supposed to do in order to receive the gift of salvation from God through His only begotten Son, Yeshuah Messiah, (Jesus the true Christ)? John the baptist tells it how it's done.
"For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight." Matthew 3:3
Jesus doesn't build our road for him to ride in on. We do, and it better be straight so He can come to us without delay. This compares with not taking the time to let the dough rise with leaven when you are to be separated from the slavery of sin in haste, represented by Egypt as the world and the Passover by the blood.
So many today say that Jesus does it all, and works is only from oneself and not of faith. I say it depends on how a person is taking that. First off, our every breath is given to us, and our heart beats with involuntary muscles. We have no say so about our life's end unless we invoke something else in order to stop living. It's God's call only, or at least it should be. Faith without works is dead, and works without faith proves nothing except a self image of righteousness. On the same token, if one says that they have faith without works, their faith is in vain. It's ones perspective under even given truthful circumstance.
So what are we supposed to do in order to receive the gift of salvation from God through His only begotten Son, Yeshuah Messiah, (Jesus the true Christ)? John the baptist tells it how it's done.
"For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight." Matthew 3:3
Jesus doesn't build our road for him to ride in on. We do, and it better be straight so He can come to us without delay. This compares with not taking the time to let the dough rise with leaven when you are to be separated from the slavery of sin in haste, represented by Egypt as the world and the Passover by the blood.
A Christian must do good works or be lost, Eph 2:10; Matt 25.
Doing good works alone will not make one a Christian, bu one who is already a Christian must do good works or be lost.
God before ordained Christians walk in good works Eph 2:10 and who here can undo, change or void what God has before ordained Christians to do?
Doing good works alone will not make one a Christian, bu one who is already a Christian must do good works or be lost.
God before ordained Christians walk in good works Eph 2:10 and who here can undo, change or void what God has before ordained Christians to do?