Which laws are and are not valid?

[BS]

Yes the whole bible is inspired by God, as the requirement of animal sacrifices for sin were under the old covenant for example that are written in the bible. I think you understand where I am going here. I did not personally feel offended by your quoted verse of scripture to me, more suprised at your decision to quote it concerning the conversation you responded to.

yes, thank you
hope you will excuse my misunderstanding

 

[JaumeJ]

How could I believe such a thing, but there are so many who teach from Paul's writing with no understanding,, sometimes even teaching from Paul on a given matter when Jesuis Christ has already been crystal cear on the same, especially about the law.

It is certain Paul, the 13th Apostle, would be the first to tell you, me, and all to listen to Jesus Christ on any given subject before taking his own words and misconstruing them.

Is it not Paul who teaches we do not belong to Paul, rathre we belong to Jesus Christ.

No, I would never say I am above Paul in any manner, I am above no believer, but I do know what Jesus Christ teaches us, and He does that directly from the gospels of the evangelists, especially on how the law stands today.

Jesus teaches all we need do to be save is to believe He is the Son of God. Now when we hav e this faith, the faith, itself will produce obedience and good works.

So many argue nor works, no obedience (law) just grace whic contains mercy. This simply is not so, even according to Paul. Faith without those works produces is a mirage. Disobedience is breking the law.

Now knowing how to follow the law under grace is taught directly to all by Jesus Christ, fulfilling, as it is written, we will be taught by God. If people preer to hear Paul before hearing the Master on a given Matter, this isfine, however, I can tell you they will have many problems with a Paul-only approach to the Word. The Word is Jesus Christ, and written, it begins with "In the Beginning," and it ends with "amen,."

Do you believe you have greater spiritual understanding than had the apostle Paul? He said obedience comes from faith rom 1:5 I do not believe ut wise to refuse to accept the message given by Christ to payl to preach for to do so is to reject christs message given for us

 

[michael56]

My post related to the fact you stated obedience is not achieved by faith after I had quoted Paul as saying it does. I find it worrying to say the least a christian would refuse to accept what Paul plainly wrote. Hence my question. Do you believe you gave greater spiritual understanding than Paul. If not, why refuse to accept what he wrote?

 

[JaumeJ]

All knnow that God willl complete the work He began in each one of us. l I say obedience is not achieved because we are counted righteous by our faith. No man can do what Jesuis Chrisst did for us. If yo believe you are perfectly obedient, I will not say you are not, but my understanding has always been from the Gospel, from the unveiled truths of the Old Testament, and yes, even from Paul.

I do ot believe anyone anywhere says we achieve obedience, except in the manner of being counted as perfect by grace. By the same token, nowehre does anyone, including Paul, say we should deliberatley disobey the law as taugth by Jesus christ. Is it not Paul who says, "Shall we sin more that grace may abound= God forbid!) Sin is, was and always will be breaking the law. We do not deliberately sin after coming to the grace of Jesus Christ, but I know there is no man who is perfect in this manner other than the One Who is perfect for us until His great and glorious Day.

UIntil then, we are children of obedience, who believe obedience is proper, and we do not deliberately disobey.

 

[michael56]

Your post has inconsistencies and discernment should show you when obedience is being spoken of in rom 1:5 it does not mean perfect obedience. If a person does not embrace the books following the gospels to the extent they do the gospels their christian knowledge will be sadly very limited.

 

[BS]

I just have read those:

“Torah is written on the table of stones and on papers “Beit Knesset ah” (in the synagogue), by glorious of God's mercy Torah has moved into the hearts of the people, so not just for the Torah, but to be Torah alive inside us and through us. And this is impossible without the Holy Spirit. In this is the essence of the New Covenant”

Sorry if the gramma is not correct- translation is by me...

God bless you all!

 

[JaumeJ]

Well written, well understood......God bless you always.....

I just have read those:

“Torah is written on the table of stones and on papers “Beit Knesset ah” (in the synagogue), by glorious of God's mercy Torah has moved into the hearts of the people, so not just for the Torah, but to be Torah alive inside us and through us. And this is impossible without the Holy Spirit. In this is the essence of the New Covenant”

Sorry if the gramma is not correct- translation is by me...

God bless you all!

 

[Elin]

You are correct. Jesus did say that all the law and the prophets hang on the first two commandments, love the Lord with all of your heart, mind, and soul and love your neighbor as yourself (Matthew 22:40). If you love God then you will obey His 1st 4 commandments and if you love your neighbor you will obey the last 6 of His commandments.

Precisely. . .without having to consult a code because love is the "code."

 

[Elin]

It is good you know these words, but rote alone is not sufficient.

Now think about this. If all of the law and the prophets hang on the two great laws of love, they are there with the two great laws of love.

Nope. . .not "with". . . but "in,". . .fulfilled by observance of the two.

A reminder, those two great
laws of love are counted within the teachings of the law from Moses.

New Covenant reminder: The Old Covenant Decalogue is counted as within the two commandments of the royal law of Christ (Jas 2:8; Mt 22:37-40; Ro 13: 8, 9, 10).

 

[Elin]

Well, if 100 christians gave the perfect answer, none of them would be the same. Jesus said He came to fulfill the laws and words of the prophets; and not one jot or tittle of the law would pass before they are fulfilled. However, the way we interpret law and the way Jesus teaches it from within, can look so different that to even find the law Jesus is fulfilling at any given moment on the path to the cross He walked is counter-intuitive. So, the best witness I have today is read the New Testament and pay close attention to the things Jesus said and did; because with every step He took and every word He spoke is the fulfillment of law. One more thing, examine all of it as if you are the one who is wearing the shoes to whom He is speaking. If you want to know who you are and why you are that way in God's sight, keep those questions on your mind as you follow Jesus; and you will find, Jesus does teach those who follow Him.

And we follow Jesus by his words spoken in these last days (Heb 1:1-2) through the NT writers.

 

[Elin]

Jesus said,

Mat 5:17
Think not that I came to destroy the law or the prophets: I came not to destroy, but to fulfil.

Mat 5:18
For verily I say unto you, Till heavenandearth pass away, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass away from the law, till all things be accomplished.

Mat 5:19
Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Mat 5:20
For I say unto you, that except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no wise enter into the kingdom of heaven.

The grammar says the law remains.

And the grammar repeatedly says that all is observed in obeying the Law of Christ
(Mt 22:37-40; 1Co 9:21; Gal 6:2; Jas 2:8; Ro 13: 8, 9, 10).

 

[Elin]

The reason jesus said your righteousness must exceed the Pharisees is because

They were unrighteous hypocrites. . .

 

[Elin]

Mt 5:18. . .one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass away from the law, till all things be accomplished.

You have used the law and the prophets as being fulfilled in Jesus Christ's first advent, but you discard the prophets words of His second advent on th eclouds, when all who pierced Him shall look upone Him.

There is much more of teh prophets yet to be fulfilled..

The law is fulfilled, accomplished, completed, finished in the life and death of Christ.

 

[Elin]

When have I alluded to th eletter of the law. Read my sharing of the word. You look to the letter of the law. We exceed the righteousnous of the Pharisees because the law is written on our hearst.

We exceed the righteousness of the hypocritical unrighteous Pharisees because we have righteousness (justification/salvation) from God by faith (Ro 1:17) as his gift (Ro 5:17).

 

[Elin]

As per alluding to the law, it was a ball handed over to me. A natural reaction is to pick it up. What I post is never engraved in stone, but I do believe whatver our Lord has taught is something more than a suggestion, therefor, I try to pass it on accurately with sstudy and prayer in the background. However, having said all this, what counts for you and for all is sthe teaching of Jesus Christ,

Which teaching is presented in the words spoken by the Son in these last days (Heb 1:1-2) through the NT writers.

 

[Elin]

only to add the first part of the scriptures: "For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass..."

not one jot or tittle of the law would pass before they are fulfilled.

The grammar allows that it may, and the NT reveals that it does, pass when the law is fulfilled, as it was in the life and death of Christ.

 

[JaumeJ]

It is teh Blood of Christ That keeps me worthy of Him. He is my Salvation. Jesus Christ is my Lord. Again Christ's Blood has saved me. Do you confess Jesus Christ? He is Lord and Savior.

You ae acting in an obsessed manner with me in coming in after my day on line and fieing off a battery of accusations and word splitting opinions without giving thought to what has been posted.

Perhaps were you to read what is posted and pray. What I post is based on belief of all of teh Word. Again, Jesus Christ never said the law and the prophets were finished or passed. How can the prophets be passed concering Jesus Christ when there are so many yet to be fulfilled? Please read and study more and then pray before thinking you have the anwers. The only answers are in the Holy Spirit. Again, please confess the Blood of Jesus Christ as your Salvation. I like to hear this from family in Christ from time to time.................thanks.

The law is fulfilled, accomplished, completed, finished in the life and death of Christ.

We exceed the righteousness of the hypocritical unrighteous Pharisees because we have righteousness (justification/salvation) from God by faith (Ro 1:17) as his gift (Ro 5:17).

Which teaching is presented in the words spoken by the Son in these last days (Heb 1:1-2) through the NT writers.

 

[Elin]

I have given examples of Jesus fulfilling Old Testament laws and words of the prophets. The first indication of my response came under a different thread, which spoke of commandments. My reference was to the 10 commandments which Jesus addressed directly concerning the first two commandments being kept also fulfilled all 10 of the commandments.I have no reason to believe my response was out of line. But now that my response is being used in the text of laws, many speak of laws and words of the prophets as a mystery. I would like to caution that the reason for the mystery has everything to do with not knowing creation language which these laws were and are originally written in. If everything Jesus said and did is the fulfillment of law and words of the prophets, than where is the interpreter of creation language among these religions that intentionally make the things Jesus did into no purpose or value. Many do not understand that with each passing generation where law and words of the prophets have been fulfilled, does not mean with the next generation are automatically fulfilled; because with each generation are new disciples being taught by the Spirit of Christ; even as we are today being taught. Do not be fooled by those religions that teach some laws and words of the prophets without creation language. For the lack of ability to interpret creation language, they turn everything into a mystery as if these cannot yet be known. The stance I take on this is to seek Christ. He is our teacher.

And his teaching is spoken by him in these last days (Heb 1:1-2) through the NT writers,
for Jesus wrote nothing, only speaking to them his revelation of God's word.

Just as important, do not allow yourself to be convinced that
any one of the christian religions know more than Jesus Christ. That is a lie. . .
trust in Jesus 'more than these.'

There is more than one Christian "religion"? . . .who are the "these"?

. . .seek Jesus for the greater understanding of all things. To repeat His words are one thing, but to say them with personal understanding of how these living words have made you stronger, there is no greater healer than Jesus Christ.

And all these things are understood from the words spoken by the Son in these last days (Heb 1:1-2) through the NT writers.

 

[Elin]

I have heard this interpretation of the wine and the skins many times. My original understanding of the wine was life previous to Jesus Christ. AFter we accept Jesus Christ, we ae served the better wine, that is the life of Christ in us.

We are made new because of Christ. His Holy Spirit leads us to all truth.

As for obeying God; no one may say in truth that disobedience is of the Holy Spirit. Now, Jesus Christ has demonsstrated and taugth us just how to be obedient, but we cannot be obedient withouut the Holy Spirit conveyingthis truth to us. It is one of those mysteries that everyone seems to explain, that is, being obedient yet living in grace.

The complete understanding of this is learning from the Master, believing Him and doing as He teaches. God bless all who do His word, amen..-.

And we learn from his words spoken in these last days (Heb 1:1-2) through the NT writers.

 

[Elin]

John 14
6. Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
7. If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
8. Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
9. Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou [then], Shew us the Father?
10. Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

Keeping in mind that we know him through the words spoken by the Son in these last days (Heb 1:1-2) through the NT writers.