New Testament Old Testament Prophecy Conundrum

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J

JUSTNE1

Guest
#41
Yes, there are some verses that have poor support from manuscript evidence and this may be one of them, although this text is a matter of some debate among scholars. Verses 3b and 4 are omitted from many major early manuscripts including the Sinaiticus, Ephraemi, Bezea, and the Alexandrinus. Some English translations such as the Revised and the NIV also omit this portion. It is however contained in a number of early Greek manuscripts. Whether or not this brief pericope actually belongs in the text of chapter five is uncertain but it seems that this narrative would be somewhat incomplete without some explanation as to why the infirmed man was seeking so earnestly to enter the pool and why he believed that this would cure his disease.

It is a definitive article. God did... No beliefs or superstition is implied.
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
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#42
Bible scripture is " God breathed and without error", you have testified to this vehemently at least 4 times in the last hour.

So what are you going to say next that all but this is God breathed...and then I would quote another verse and then another and another...

What would you say then I wonder??? "Well, its all God Breathed apart from those bits".
Scripture is God breathed in the text as originally given. We have to discern what is original and what is not. Fortunately we have thousands of manuscript, papyri and versions which enable us to do so. Our New Testament text is 98% accurate.

Look if you don't want answers why ask for them? Are you a troll? I suspect so.
 
J

JUSTNE1

Guest
#44
The last portion of Mark 16 9-20.
A big portion of scripture is another add on, missing from the earliest manuscripts.
People cannot Harmonize the resurrection narratives full stop. Scholars are sure that Jesus was raised but the events themselves are contorted within scripture.
So why bother writing anything. If it might be a lie why put in scripture.

I can keep these examples coming all day. And I Hate the fact that I know that the Bible is fallible.
 
J

JUSTNE1

Guest
#45
I am not sure what your point is. Can you elaborate?
My point is that people from times past have attributed characteristics of The Most High which are Blasphemy. These have been put into scripture and taught as God Breathed.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#46
The last portion of Mark 16 9-20.
A big portion of scripture is another add on, missing from the earliest manuscripts.
People cannot Harmonize the resurrection narratives full stop. Scholars are sure that Jesus was raised but the events themselves are contorted within scripture.
So why bother writing anything. If it might be a lie why put in scripture.

I can keep these examples coming all day. And I Hate the fact that I know that the Bible is fallible.
the bible is only as fallable as one makes it out to be. The bible does not contradict, thus if we see a contradiction, we must see why we see a contradiction.

1. My belief caused the contradiction, I must reinterpret my false belief
2. Possible mistranslation into english text (we have greek hebrew manuscripts to account for these errors
3. Possible additions to text. see number 2.

if we believe in a fallible bible, our whole foundation is in crumbles. for we cna not know what is from God and what is not.
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
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#47
Very informative,
New information from a fresh perspective, we like that. Thank you.
Jack's inventions collapse when we look at the facts. No human being could have invented the life and teaching of Jesus in such a way that centuries of readers acknowledged both the uniqueness of His teachings and the wonder of His life. Left in the hands of men, as Jack suggests, its uniqueness would have disappeared. It would have been on a level with all other literature.
 
J

JUSTNE1

Guest
#48
Scripture is God breathed in the text as originally given. We have to discern what is original and what is not. Fortunately we have thousands of manuscript, papyri and versions which enable us to do so. Our New Testament text is 98% accurate.

Look if you don't want answers why ask for them? Are you a troll? I suspect so.
98% accurate is another church recital.

We have exactly zero first century Original.
Zero big fat Nil.
The earliest copies are mostly 2nd century.

Please stop telling me church spin.

I used to teach it myself!!
 
J

JUSTNE1

Guest
#49
the bible is only as fallable as one makes it out to be. The bible does not contradict, thus if we see a contradiction, we must see why we see a contradiction.

1. My belief caused the contradiction, I must reinterpret my false belief
2. Possible mistranslation into english text (we have greek hebrew manuscripts to account for these errors
3. Possible additions to text. see number 2.

if we believe in a fallible bible, our whole foundation is in crumbles. for we cna not know what is from God and what is not.
Thus where the Spirit comes in!!
 

oldhermit

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2012
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#50
The last portion of Mark 16 9-20.
A big portion of scripture is another add on, missing from the earliest manuscripts.
People cannot Harmonize the resurrection narratives full stop. Scholars are sure that Jesus was raised but the events themselves are contorted within scripture.
So why bother writing anything. If it might be a lie why put in scripture.

I can keep these examples coming all day. And I Hate the fact that I know that the Bible is fallible.
Actually, this pericope is very well supported from no less than 620 ancient manuscripts including the Byzantine Text (450-1450 A.D.), the A 02 Alexandrinus Fifth century, the C 04 Ephraemi Rescriptus Fifth century, the D 05 Bezae Cantabrigiensis Fifth century, and the W 032 Fourth/fifth century. This is VERY good support for this text.
As for the resurrection account and even the last supper narratives these need to be read as composite accounts by the four gospel writer. There are no discrepancies between these accounts.
 

oldhermit

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2012
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Alabama
#51
My point is that people from times past have attributed characteristics of The Most High which are Blasphemy. These have been put into scripture and taught as God Breathed.
Such as????
 
J

JUSTNE1

Guest
#52
Actually, this pericope is very well supported from no less than 620 ancient manuscripts including the Byzantine Text (450-1450 A.D.), the A 02 Alexandrinus Fifth century, the C 04 Ephraemi Rescriptus Fifth century, the D 05 Bezae Cantabrigiensis Fifth century, and the W 032 Fourth/fifth century. This is VERY good support for this text.
As for the resurrection account and even the last supper narratives these need to be read as composite accounts by the four gospel writer. There are no discrepancies between these accounts.
Really??

No discrepancies in the resurrection narratives eh... This I can dissect but there are so many it may take a few minutes.
I predict you already know this anyway but if you insist I will go over it again..
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
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#53
The last portion of Mark 16 9-20.
A big portion of scripture is another add on, missing from the earliest manuscripts.
true. but it is hardly a big portion of Scripture.

People cannot Harmonize the resurrection narratives full stop.
Now you are talking a load of rubbish. They harmonise quite satisfactorily.

Scholars are sure that Jesus was raised but the events themselves are contorted within scripture.
There is nothing contorted about them. It is all in your imagination arising from ignorance.

So why bother writing anything. If it might be a lie why put in scripture.
Its for honest people seeking truth.

I can keep these examples coming all day. And I Hate the fact that I know that the Bible is fallible.
well if you want to live with your folly it is up to you. Quite frankly I don't believe you. You are simply seeking to stir up controversy.
 
J

JUSTNE1

Guest
#55
true. but it is hardly a big portion of Scripture.



Now you are talking a load of rubbish. They harmonise quite satisfactorily.



There is nothing contorted about them. It is all in your imagination arising from ignorance.



Its for honest people seeking truth.



well if you want to live with your folly it is up to you. Quite frankly I don't believe you. You are simply seeking to stir up controversy.
Thank you for your input
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
8,025
124
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#56
98% accurate is another church recital.

We have exactly zero first century Original.
Zero big fat Nil.
The earliest copies are mostly 2nd century.

Please stop telling me church spin.

I used to teach it myself!!
The Scriptures are better attested than any other ancient literature. You are simply trying to stir up strife. Yes I will stop, I have no intention of communicating with you further. You are not worth it. You have no real desire to know.
 
J

JUSTNE1

Guest
#57
Actually, this pericope is very well supported from no less than 620 ancient manuscripts including the Byzantine Text (450-1450 A.D.), the A 02 Alexandrinus Fifth century, the C 04 Ephraemi Rescriptus Fifth century, the D 05 Bezae Cantabrigiensis Fifth century, and the W 032 Fourth/fifth century. This is VERY good support for this text.
As for the resurrection account and even the last supper narratives these need to be read as composite accounts by the four gospel writer. There are no discrepancies between these accounts.
So 400 years after the resurrection (minimum), post emporer Constantine...interesting.
 
J

JUSTNE1

Guest
#58
So 400 years after the resurrection (minimum), post emporer Constantine...interesting.
It is impossible to composite these narratives. I've tried. Scholars agree that they are unable to produce any timeline which could incorporate all narrative's.

You seem like a nice man and I Bless you, but I think maybe we should agree to disagree.
 
J

JUSTNE1

Guest
#59
The Scriptures are better attested than any other ancient literature. You are simply trying to stir up strife. Yes I will stop, I have no intention of communicating with you further. You are not worth it. You have no real desire to know.
Thank you.
 

oldhermit

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2012
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#60
I've already stated.

Favoritism, promoting superstition and being cruel by not healing everyone etc
The problem does not lie with God here but with your attempt to hold God accountable to a humanly derived standard of ethics and fairness. If there is one thing that scripture teaches us it is the fact that God is VERY selective but never unfair. His choosing of one above another is seen many times in scripture. "Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use?" Rom 9:21. You are also assuming that the healing itself is somehow of significance, It is not. He is also at times vengeful but this does not make him cruel.