Does anyone else perceive something radical Occurring with the Writings of Paul

[GracethroughfaithinChrist]

Romans 7:21-25
21I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. 22For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: 23But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? 25I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Galatians 3:24
So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith.

Romans 3:27-31
27Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. 28Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. 29Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also: 30Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
31Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Friends and beloved brothers and sisters....... God's law is good and we delight in it; in our hearts and souls, but we have flesh and are sold under sin. Our bodies are sinful and evil by nature. There is not one good man or woman here, no not one.
But God is good and faith in His only begotten son for deliverance from our sinful nature saves us. Not law keeping or works done through the flesh. The law that is good could never save us. We will always have need of a Savior and Redeemer. It is only Christ Jesus who can deliver us from ourselves and only faith in Him justifies.

What man has achieved perfection from works of the flesh or law keeping? Bring them forward to testify if you know even one who achieved salvation through vain works or law keeping.

We can never save ourselves, beloved, it is by God's mercy and the blood of Christ that we receive forgiveness through faith. By trusting in God to save us and not by trusting in man including ourselves. No man can defeat his nature by attempting to keep laws that only God in the person of Christ Jesus could keep. Faith in the Resurrected Christ is our only hope. He paid for our sins with His flesh and blood. One perfect sacrifice and one final payment for the sins of all who would believe in Him. The just will live by faith.

Romans 5:18-21
18Therefore as by the offense of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. 19For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. 20Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound: 21That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.


Friends and beloved, God 's grace,peace,mercy and love be multiplied to all of you in Christ Jesus.

 

[Grandpa]

God is graceful, and so is everything He ever said. Do you disagree with that?

Yes, I disagree. God Himself gave the ministry of Death and Condemnation to Moses. The Ministry of Death and Condemnation is the Law.

Its purpose is to lead us to Himself so He can be Graceful and Merciful to us. But it condemns and kills us in the process.

No matter which way you look at it death and condemnation are not grace. But we need them because we are so stubborn.

Your last line is talking about the human who is a new creature free from the law of sin, not the unchanging word of God who didn't write a law of sin and death. God just described it, and its repercussions concerning His righteous judgments.

No, sir.

The old is passed away. The ministry of condemnation and death.

Behold, His Grace and Mercy are New for us every day. We are no longer under condemnation in Christ. We are under His Grace.

Do you know what the Revelation of Christ is? It is the FACT that we are not righteous before Him by His Law. But He accepts us anyway and Loves us anyway. He is our High Priest in Heaven making intercession for us by His Grace, by His Gift of Love and Mercy.

There would be no reason for Him to intercede for us if we could obey His Law. There would be no need for His Mercy and Grace if we were perfect before Him.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

Paul's writing are twisted to support a saved in sins message.

Paul's writing are twisted to support a completely different message than that which Jesus taught in the Sermon on the Mount.

Did you mean to put a question mark behind those statements?

 

[fredjames]

I see you are referring to Acts 15:10.

If professing Christians would focus their supposed spiritual thoughts concerning "change" or "done way with" toward the carnal human, (which propagates the law of sin and death), rather than the unchanging Word of God, (including the law of God), I truly believe that wisdom and understanding of the truth would follow. The "yoke" that this scripture is referring to is the "oral law" not the written law via Moses. Paul is referring to the "Talmud" that put many additional burdens on the Jews, and greatly limited the ability of Gentiles to join Israel. Paul is referring to "Judaizers" not the law of God originally recorded in the Pentateuch.

'(including the law of God)', a you have 'testified', which 'law' are you referring to?

There are people of GOD and 'unworthy' me also want to know, if you would 'kindly' explain?

Thank you and GOD bless you in the name of LORD JESUS CHRIST.

 

[fredjames]

Paul's writing are twisted to support a saved in sins message.

Paul's writing are twisted to support a completely different message than that which Jesus taught in the Sermon on the Mount.

Did Apostle Peter the 'Rock', where CHRIST has 'built' HIS church upon, according to his 'second epistle' say that or you as 'babes in CHRIST'?

Are we to listen to you or the 'chosen' Apostles of CHRIST according to the New Covenant/Testament, who have been made chosen 'instruments' for CHRIST, to 'continue' and to 'establish' and 'built up' the church after HIM/JESUS, through their 'epistles'?

JESUS said in HIS Gospel, 'until the Law and the Prophets are fulfilled and accomplished'. Did HE/JESUS not 'do away with them' for Christians on the 'Cross'?

Isn't Apostle Paul was chosen 'after' the 'fulfillment and accomplishment' of the 'Law and the Prophets' on the 'Cross of Calvary' and Apostle Paul's Gospel through CHRIST, is a further 'spiritual revelation', according to of CHRIST initially, that 'born again' Christians 'spiritually understand in sound doctrine', they are not 'bound' to them again, to even start to 'practice' any of them, moreover even to the 'least' written in the 'Letter' given by Moses?

 

[fredjames]

Romans 7:21-25
21I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. 22For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: 23But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? 25I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Galatians 3:24
So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith.

Romans 3:27-31
27Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. 28Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. 29Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also: 30Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
31Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Friends and beloved brothers and sisters....... God's law is good and we delight in it; in our hearts and souls, but we have flesh and are sold under sin. Our bodies are sinful and evil by nature. There is not one good man or woman here, no not one.
But God is good and faith in His only begotten son for deliverance from our sinful nature saves us. Not law keeping or works done through the flesh. The law that is good could never save us. We will always have need of a Savior and Redeemer. It is only Christ Jesus who can deliver us from ourselves and only faith in Him justifies.

What man has achieved perfection from works of the flesh or law keeping? Bring them forward to testify if you know even one who achieved salvation through vain works or law keeping.

We can never save ourselves, beloved, it is by God's mercy and the blood of Christ that we receive forgiveness through faith. By trusting in God to save us and not by trusting in man including ourselves. No man can defeat his nature by attempting to keep laws that only God in the person of Christ Jesus could keep. Faith in the Resurrected Christ is our only hope. He paid for our sins with His flesh and blood. One perfect sacrifice and one final payment for the sins of all who would believe in Him. The just will live by faith.

Romans 5:18-21
18Therefore as by the offense of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. 19For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. 20Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound: 21That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.


Friends and beloved, God 's grace,peace,mercy and love be multiplied to all of you in Christ Jesus.

Form 'these' what our 'brethren' have 'prophesy' for 'building up' the 'church', therefore 'born again of not only water but the HOLY SPIRIT' faithful Christians, 'practice' and 'abide' and 'bear much fruit' according to the New Covenant/testament, the word/teaching of CHRIST and they are 'spirit' and 'life' came out of HIS mouth as HE 'proclaimed', moreover justifying came from the FATHER, for all of us to be 'the author and finisher of our faith', who is also 'the way' the 'the truth' and 'the life', the 'only way' to the FATHER, is by HIM/CHRIST JESUS only and 'none other ever'.

Thank you and may GOD the FATHER of our LORD JESUS CHRIST bless you all with HIS kindness and peace.

 

[just-me]

'(including the law of God)', a you have 'testified', which 'law' are you referring to?

There are people of GOD and 'unworthy' me also want to know, if you would 'kindly' explain?

Thank you and GOD bless you in the name of LORD JESUS CHRIST.

To focus on God's word being changed because of the new Covenant in Christ Jesus takes a person's thoughts away from the fact that Jesus came to change us instead, making us worthy to enter into the presence of God, as we are proclaimed as clean. We should always focus on God changing us instead of God's word changing for our benefit. The train of thought that causes us to focus on God's word changing instead of us changing, and being conformed into the image of Christ, is backwards/upside down from the real truth.

In respect to the Talmud, these are additions to the original law that God gave to Moses. They are regulations concerning one judgment for numerous circumstances that don't necessarily apply to every given scenario. The Talmud was written as a law to explain the original law of God, making many more laws according to human understanding which created a burden that no one could bear. It's like any legislative branch of government. A law is made to cover many different cases, but then something pops up that causes the legislation to make another law to cover the first law, and it goes on and on without a real cure for all things such as the original law did that God gave to Israel via Moses. I do not endorse the Talmud. I have read some things concerning the documented records, and it is very confusing in many cases.

"Surely your turning of things upside down shall be esteemed as the potter's clay: for shall the work say of him that made it, He made me not? or shall the thing framed say of him that framed it, He had no understanding?" Isaiah 29:16

 

[Danel]

Romans 8:7- The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God's law, nor can it do so.

Romans 3:31- Do we nullify the law by this faith? By no means! Rather we uphold the law.

Mathew 5:18- For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Mathew 23:2- The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.

 

[Danel]

^ 4 scriptures that you have to ignore when you're makeing up excuses not to obey God's holy commandments that were given for our benefit.

 

[Elin]

^ 4 scriptures that you have to ignore when you're makeing up excuses not to obey God's holy commandments that were given for our benefit.

Obeying the two new covenant (Lk 22:20) laws of Christ (Mt 22:37-39) is obeying God's holy commandments (Ro 13: 8-10)

 

[Elin]

To focus on God's word being changed because of the new Covenant in Christ Jesus takes a person's thoughts away from the fact that Jesus came to change us instead,

Baloney. . .red herring.

No "instead."

 

[Danel]

Obeying the two new covenant (Lk 22:20) laws of Christ (Mt 22:37-39) is obeying God's holy commandments (Ro 13: 8-10)

No offence, but you're just straight up lying. Jesus said that the whole law hangs on those 2 commandments. Not that those 2 commandments replace the law. Every commandment in the torah has something to do with loving God or our neighbor. But that doesn't mean that you get to make up your own version of how to love God and your neighbor. You follow God's guidlines.

Jeremiah 17:9- The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

Don't make the mistake of thinking that you can define love anyway you want.

 

[phil112]

Does anyone else perceive something radical Occurring with the Writings of Paul=

I assume you are referring to the radical teaching he received from Christ about ushering in grace to all, including the gentile, so that we don't have to attempt to live by the law.

 

[Danel]

Did Jesus say that God's law has been done away with, and these 2 commandments replaced it? Or did he say that the whole law hangs on these 2 commandments?

35 One of them, an expert in the law, tested him with this question: 36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”
37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’[c] 38 This is the first and greatest commandment.39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[d] 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments

 

[just-me]

Yes, I disagree. God Himself gave the ministry of Death and Condemnation to Moses. The Ministry of Death and Condemnation is the Law.

If God is love why would He instigate Death and Condemnation by any of His own words? This statement of yours makes no sense at all. The law shines the light on the carnal mind of the flesh, it doesn't create a carnal mind that propagates fleshly desires. Death and Condemnation are the result of transgressions. Sinful man makes death and condemnation by the flesh. The law entered because of transgression to show the human race their absolute need for salvation. I do not believe that God ever desired Death and Condemnation toward anyone when there is no willful transgression.

Transgression came first, then death and condemnation was the result. Then the law entered to elucidate (shine a light on) the transgression. God didn't cause transgression leading to the consequence of the law condemnation, sin, and death. The law of sin and death is not God's creation, it's ours. Don't blame God's words for our own iniquity!

"Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good." Romans 7:12

Nothing holy, and just, and good can be a ministry of Death and Condemnation.

 

[damombomb]

Does anyone else perceive something radical Occurring with the Writings of Paul=

I think he was radically saved and called and fulfilled his ministry.

 

[Elin]

Obeying the two new covenant (Lk 22:20) laws of Christ (Mt 22:37-39) is obeying God's holy commandments (Ro 13: 8-10).

No offence, but you're just straight up lying. Jesus said that the whole law hangs on those 2 commandments.
Not that those 2 commandments replace the law.

Straw man. . ."no offense" when you all me a liar?

These two commandments fulfill (accomplish) the law (Ro 13:8-10).

The Holy Spirit gives us to know what is loving and what is not.

Worshipping false gods and taking God's name in vain is not loving God.
Dishonoring one's parents, killing, committing adultery, stealing, lying, lusting after the possessions of others is not loving others.

It's not rocket science.

 

[phil112]

Does anyone else perceive something radical Occurring with the Writings of Paul=

You very clearly asked if we notice something radical with Paul's writings.

I post a question, and now you have me on trial. I will ask again. Do you notice a radical interpretation occurring in the posting in this bible discussio? Please do not make it personal attacking my integrety. My integrety is not an issue. Post to the OP, or start a thread on whatever it is you are trying to convey. God bless you with understanding always.

Where did you ask this the first time? Want to post a link to the thread, because it certainly wasn't on this one.

The OP did not intend to gear down to disputing, so please forgive my posting it. God bless all who are in Jesus Christ, Yeshua. I am unsubscribing.

Hypocrisy at it's finest. You absolutely posted this to discuss people you disagree with, but you aren't man enough to simply name the people and the topic.
You are hoping it will swerve to your way of thinking and everyone that answers you will agree with you.
You have a lot of hubris.............

 

[just-me]

Did Jesus say that God's law has been done away with, and these 2 commandments replaced it? Or did he say that the whole law hangs on these 2 commandments?

35 One of them, an expert in the law, tested him with this question: 36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”
37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’[c] 38 This is the first and greatest commandment.39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[d] 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments

Seems as if todays religion for some has nothing left to hang on the two greatest laws of love. LOL Those 2 laws are just there without any descriptive instructions. Make it up as you go philosophy, leaving the door wide open for the carnal mind to dominate and determined what it is.

 

[fredjames]

To focus on God's word being changed because of the new Covenant in Christ Jesus takes a person's thoughts away from the fact that Jesus came to change us instead, making us worthy to enter into the presence of God, as we are proclaimed as clean. We should always focus on God changing us instead of God's word changing for our benefit. The train of thought that causes us to focus on God's word changing instead of us changing, and being conformed into the image of Christ, is backwards/upside down from the real truth.

In respect to the Talmud, these are additions to the original law that God gave to Moses. They are regulations concerning one judgment for numerous circumstances that don't necessarily apply to every given scenario. The Talmud was written as a law to explain the original law of God, making many more laws according to human understanding which created a burden that no one could bear. It's like any legislative branch of government. A law is made to cover many different cases, but then something pops up that causes the legislation to make another law to cover the first law, and it goes on and on without a real cure for all things such as the original law did that God gave to Israel via Moses. I do not endorse the Talmud. I have read some things concerning the documented records, and it is very confusing in many cases.

"Surely your turning of things upside down shall be esteemed as the potter's clay: for shall the work say of him that made it, He made me not? or shall the thing framed say of him that framed it, He had no understanding?" Isaiah 29:16

Yes indeed very much thank you for your 'clarification' for 'everyone', your Grace and Truth 'testimony'. But 'please' be careful of the word 'change' and that is not 'truth'. Your correction from the 'LORD' is also our 'lesson', came 'through' you.

They were 'truthfully' not 'changed', but were made by GOD through CHRIST 'better', in order for 'believers' of CHRIST of the New Covenant/Testament to 'excel in righteousness than the Pharisees'. That is why JESUS said to HIS disciples, 'to learn from them, butdo not do what they do'.

Everyone please 'note' that the underlined word 'signify', as 'one' from 'many' written for Christian to 'keep/continue/abide' to CHRIST 'commandments', 'testifies truthfully' according to the 'written' and 'given' and 'made' New Covenant/Testament by GOD to us, even through HIS 'Apostles' in their 'epistles' to the Church.

GOD the FATHER of our LORD JESUS CHRIST bless you all with HIS kindness and peace.