Don't Mix law & Grace

[ladylynn]

Well at least you see by scripture there is a law involved in the New Covenant. And love fulfills the law as written, which includes loving the Lord our God with all our heart. So God shows mercy=grace to those who love Him and keep His commandments.

Exodus 20:6
And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

Deuteronomy 5:10
And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me and keep my commandments.

John 14:15
If ye love me, keep my commandments.

John 14:21
He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

Again, please listen to the link. Under the new covenant - we love God because HE FIRST loved us. Not vs/vs He loves us not because we follow the law but because Jesus followed the law perfectly and God sees US in Christ. Again, Jesus does the work, we rest by faith
IN the finished work of Christ. Major difference between old covenant of law vs grace.

You will see these verses differently when you apply grace (unmerited favor) to them.
The commandment has been fulfilled IN Christ not us. Showing our faith IN Christ is pleasing to God , not faith in ourselves to obey the commandments ...to please God. He is honored when WE honor HIS Son. not when we boast in our works of following the law.
If we boast, it has to be IN Christ., not self. Again, major difference that the new covenant provides. But it's clear many Christians are in the new covenant yet living under the old covenant of doing first than believing they are getting their due.. that is no longer grace... that is obligation.. God is not obliged to us.
"When I see the blood I will pass over you" NOT when I see the blood.,and your good works and your right heart attitude and good intentions I will pass over you.
Saved by grace., live by grace. So many believers don't know about how to live by faith through grace.

 

[crossnote]

Law and Grace are mixed at Calvary where God poured out His wrath for our sins but pours forth His grace through faith in JESUS.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Well, I watched 3 minutes of the video and that's all it took for me to know this Joseph Prince dude has no idea what he is talking about. LOL

 

[ladylynn]

Well, I watched 3 minutes of the video and that's all it took for me to know this Joseph Prince dude has no idea what he is talking about. LOL

Ahhh yes., the OL 3 minutes and you know all there is to know about a person. (knee-jerk malady) Your not alone though InSpiritInTruth., another person came here and read my post and said she knew about 'me' by the few words at the bottom of my signature..,then left after first criticizing about that and the link she never listened to then adding nothing else but words that had nothing to do with the thread. ???

The only folks who don't know what is being talked about are those with "knee-jerk-malady" who don't know how to listen before commenting and judging the OP and her link.

 

[Willie-T]

Ahhh yes., the OL 3 minutes and you know all there is to know about a person. (knee-jerk malady) Your not alone though InSpiritInTruth., another person came here and read my post and said she knew about 'me' by the few words at the bottom of my signature..,then left after first criticizing about that and the link she never listened to then adding nothing else but words that had nothing to do with the thread. ???

The only folks who don't know what is being talked about are those with "knee-jerk-malady" who don't know how to listen before commenting and judging the OP and her link.

Hey.... It seems to be the way a lot of people learned the Bible, so why should they change now?

(I think it is the fear of the red pill.)

 

[seed_time_harvest]

I don't mix it - I live by grace, sleep grace, eat grace, preach grace, love grace, walk with grace, sing about grace, depend on grace, and if I could change my name, it would be Grace.

Thats the thing ...how do we know what you just said was not legalism.Nothing against you my friend
what i am trying to say is only GOD can see the heart so what you said is true but how do we know its truth from you?

even a prayer can be legalistic.

i hope you can understand what i am saying.

 

[p_rehbein]

Man, it's about time someone decided to discuss this issue of Law vs. Grace...........

 

[Willie-T]

Thats the thing ...how do we know what you just said was not legalism.Nothing against you my friend
what i am trying to say is only GOD can see the heart so what you said is true but how do we know its truth from you?

even a prayer can be legalistic.

i hope you can understand what i am saying.

Well, she would probably be the only one. I don't know how even YOU have any idea what you just said.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

Man, it's about time someone decided to discuss this issue of Law vs. Grace...........

yea it is showing up a lot.
lol

 

[dcontroversal]

Clearly you do not understand the verses I posted, and what place the law has even in the New Covenant.

Hebrews 8:7-10 "For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.[SUP]8 [/SUP]For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:"

And of course you do.........!

 

[seed_time_harvest]

Well, she would probably be the only one. I don't know how even YOU have any idea what you just said.

if you prayed 15 minutes today and said i am going to pray 30 minutes tomorrow but your prayer was more about how long you prayed instead of a sincere talk with GOD thats what i mean by legalistic.

 

[Willie-T]

if you prayed 15 minutes today and said i am going to pray 30 minutes tomorrow but your prayer was more about how long you prayed instead of a sincere talk with GOD thats what i mean by legalistic.

And, I think what she meant was that she lives in the grace of not having to be concerned about how much time she prays on any particular day...... some days it might be just a fleeting few moments, and other days, it could run into hours, without her even realizing it.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

And, I think what she meant was that she lives in the grace of not having to be concerned about how much time she prays on any particular day...... some days it might be just a fleeting few moments, and other days, it could run into hours, without her even realizing it.

ok i see my bad.forgive me.i should have read better instead of a quick response.

 

[Willie-T]

ok i see my bad.forgive me.i should have read better instead of a quick response.

What I mean is if we are even keeping track of our praying, making sure to cover certain times and lengths, then THAT is something we might want to think on.

 

[ladylynn]

oic, can't play the link atm.

i do think there's a place for law in the life of all believers, though.
it pleases God for us to obey Him, it enhances our witness to the Gospel,
and it keeps folks from hollering 'antinomian' at us.

exactly how all this is accomplished is prolly a whole nuther talk.

Sorry you can't access the link. It's a really good message and touches on many aspects of the new covenant of grace and how vastly it differs from the old covenant of law. If you were able to listen to the video, you would have heard that God finds lukewarmness something He spews out of His mouth. He would that we were one or the other because either one taken as a whole would deliver us. But taken only in part misses the mark because it depends on flesh and not God. Rev.3:16
So because you are lukewarm and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of MY mouth.
This is written to the church in Laodicea who were proud in their self efforts before God. They didn't even know how self righteous they were.

If they saw how utterly unable they were they would be in good shape because then they would depend on Jesus. If they relied on His grace, they would be in good shape because He would be pleased with their faith. But instead they were neither just like the churches are today., depending on works of righteousness, they began in grace but tried to live by works.

 

[ladylynn]

John 14:23,

Jesus answered him, “If anyone loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.

Joseph Prince seems to be very confused about the law. He's not the only one,but I would expect that from a word of faith preacher.
What doe's Jesus mean by obeying him and what does Paul mean by 'works of the law'? What are good works, fruit of the Spirit.. we are not under the law but we are not lawless. Are not the moral laws good, and shouldn't we as christians aspire to be like that in our daily lives being prompted and or convicted by the Holy Spirit to do so?

If you looked at what is being said you would see he is not confused at all. Neither am I.
I've noticed most people here do not understand what a word of faith preacher preaches about grace. If you listened to the link, you would know what one of the word of faith preachers preach. I'm finding not all Baptists believe the same nor do all Methodists or any of the main stream religions. Each one is different. Same with word of faith believers like me.
I do not hold to the outrageous things many here have accused word of faith believers to be believing. Many have misjudged and are missing the point based on their prejudices of what they think all word of faith believers and preachers and teachers believe. Below is a short little summery of differences of what the old covenant was for and how the new covenant has replaced it and how.

Consider the differences. The saints of old longed to have what we have today. Yet many of us live as old covenant believers when we are IN the new covenant of grace.

Consider the differences:

Under the old covenant of law vs the new covenant of grace.
OLD-God demanded righteousness from man. NEW-God imparts righteousness to man through the finished work of Jesus. Rom.4:5-7 OLD-God will visit your sins to the 3rd 4th generations. Ex.20:5 NEW-God will by no means remember your sins. Heb. 8:12;10:17

OLD- The children of Israel were blessed only if they obeyed God's commandments perfectly inwardly and outwardly Duet.28:13-14 NEW-Beleivers don't have to depend on their self-efforts to receive God's blessings, because Jesus fullfilled every one of the requirements of the law on their behalf. Col. 2:14
OLD-
They were cursed of they did not obey God's commandments perfectly Duet.28:15-16,18,20
NEW- Believers can enjoy God's blessings and undeserved favor because Christ became a curse for them on the cross. Gal.3:13

OLD- Depending on self-effort produces behavior modification without heart transformation. NEW- Beholding the loveliness of Jesus and His finished work brings about inner transformation, which produces good works that are motivated by God's love. 2 Cor.3:18

OLD-The blood sacrifices of animals covered the sins of the children of Israel for only one year, and the process had to be repeated every year Heb.10:3
NEW- The blood of Jesus has removed the sins--past,present and future of believers completely and perfectly, once and for all. Heb.10:11-12

OLD-Obeying the law could not and did not give the children of Israel the power to stop sin in their lives. The law has no power to make anyone holy, just and good. NEW-Sin has no dominion over believers Rom.6:14 as the power of Jesus to overcome temptation kicks in when they are conscience that they are righteous in Christ apart from their works Rom. 4:6

OLD- The children of Israel were robbed of their confidence in the goodness of God because they were always looking at themselves to see how well or poorly they performed (i.e. self-conscience) NEW-Believers can have a tremendous sense of confidence and security in Christ because they are now looking to Jesus and not themselves (i.e. Christ-conscience)

OLD-The Children of Israel could not have an intimate relationship with God because their unrighteousness put distance between them and God. NEW-Beleivers can enjoy close,intimate relationship with God as their Father because they are made righteous by faith in Jesus.
2 Cor.5:17; Rom.5:7-9 Heb.10:10

OLD-The Children of Israel could not enter the holy of holies (where the presence of God was) Only the high priest could, ant that only once a year, on the Day of Atonement. Lev.16:2, 14 NEW-Not only can believers enter God's holy presence, they can also come boldly to His throne of grace in their time of need because Jesus perfect atonement. Heb.4:16

OLD-The children of Israel were under the ministry of death. 2 Cor. 3:17
NEW- Believers are under the ministry of Jesus' abundant life. 2 Cor.3:6; John 10:10

 

[blondieindahouse]

Yes you are right! I've had it for many months but keep coming back to it for reference when I find myself getting grace and law mixed. We live in such freedom in Christ yet we so often bind ourselves up with the law and it's incessant demands apart from faith. Who shall deliver me from the body of this death!!! HE WILL, Jesus Christ.
Romans 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you for you are NOT under law but under Grace.
Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Romans 7:24-25 Wretched man that I am!! Who will set me free from the body of this death? Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, on the one hand I myself with my mind am serving the law of God, but on the other, with my flesh the law of sin.

The question arises..what is the "law of God" Romans 3:27 the law of faith
The just shall live by faith., Without faith it is impossible to please God. Under the new covenant we do things by faith., our life is done in and by faith. We work to REST and we do that by Faith.

I wish I could type as fast as the speaker in the link posted preached but alas, I can't.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMqJ6Zg4C7U

Joseph Prince? Sorry. no can do. I prefer my preaching biblical

 

[Willie-T]

Joseph Prince? Sorry. no can do. I prefer my preaching biblical

I wish I was even one tenth the Bible scholar he is. The only thing I have found un Biblical he teaches is the same thing your preacher probably preaches.... Penal Atonement. (God punishing Jesus)

 

[ladylynn]

I wish I was even one tenth the Bible scholar he is.

Me too Brother, meeeee tooooooooooo!!!!!!!!

 

[crossnote]

I wish I was even one tenth the Bible scholar he is. The only thing I have found un Biblical he teaches is the same thing your preacher probably preaches.... Penal Atonement. (God punishing Jesus)

Me too Brother, meeeee tooooooooooo!!!!!!!!

Do I detect a bit of teacher idols?