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Its probably not a good idea to quote stats. In most rape clinics girls will be given the "Day after"pill. It will prevent or abort pregnancy and never appear on your stats.
In Australia and New Zealand, 1 in 6 women have been raped by a person other than their partner. If you think USA or another country you live in is better think again.
Australia’s sexual assault shame: One in six women a victim, putting Australia way above world average
So think about the woman who has been beaten within an inch of her life, raped and demeaned, & made pregnant. If she carries the child then you cant imagine the psychological torments in front of her. If she aborts you cant imagine the psychological torments in front of her. She bears the guilt of rape and abortion. The killer here is the rapist who has killed the soul of the raped girl and if she's pregnant has caused the death of another beautiful soul.
So condemn her if you will.
In Australia and New Zealand, 1 in 6 women have been raped by a person other than their partner. If you think USA or another country you live in is better think again.
Australia’s sexual assault shame: One in six women a victim, putting Australia way above world average
So think about the woman who has been beaten within an inch of her life, raped and demeaned, & made pregnant. If she carries the child then you cant imagine the psychological torments in front of her. If she aborts you cant imagine the psychological torments in front of her. She bears the guilt of rape and abortion. The killer here is the rapist who has killed the soul of the raped girl and if she's pregnant has caused the death of another beautiful soul.
So condemn her if you will.
Why would I condemn? I have been supportive of the victims of the horrible crime of rape. As for statistics, it is important to realize that so very many of the unborn babies being aborted here in the US are only being aborted because of lifestyle convenience, and not because of rape, incest. life of the mother pregnancies. We must be educated to what the truth is so that we are better able to speak against the Pro-Choice crowd.
The day after pill has only recently come into play...........and it may have a possible effect on future statistics. However, even then, the statistical data collected and reported on remains the same percentage wise and is not skewed by unreported instances, since those instances are not part of the total number of abortions. Hope you understand that.
We are discussing the instances where the victims of rape become pregnant and may or may not seek an abortion. Not the number of young women who are actually raped, sexually assaulted. There is a difference. Just saying. And, no, I do not believe the US has fewer instances of victims than any other Nation. This isn't a matter of National Pride.
I don't think you have read my comments here........especially in light of the last paragraph of your above comment. Maybe you should go to my very first comment and read it, and then get back to me?
Here, let me make it easier for you............my comment this thread........#12
My thoughts is such a decision should only concern the victim, her family (if it was not incest) her Spiritual Advisor (Pastor) and her Doctor.
As for judgment........yeah, that ain't our job.......
Loving support, prayer and acceptance of her and the decision reached is our job in my opinion.
If you consider this to be condemning..............well, I don't know
The day after pill has only recently come into play...........and it may have a possible effect on future statistics. However, even then, the statistical data collected and reported on remains the same percentage wise and is not skewed by unreported instances, since those instances are not part of the total number of abortions. Hope you understand that.
We are discussing the instances where the victims of rape become pregnant and may or may not seek an abortion. Not the number of young women who are actually raped, sexually assaulted. There is a difference. Just saying. And, no, I do not believe the US has fewer instances of victims than any other Nation. This isn't a matter of National Pride.
I don't think you have read my comments here........especially in light of the last paragraph of your above comment. Maybe you should go to my very first comment and read it, and then get back to me?
Here, let me make it easier for you............my comment this thread........#12
My thoughts is such a decision should only concern the victim, her family (if it was not incest) her Spiritual Advisor (Pastor) and her Doctor.
As for judgment........yeah, that ain't our job.......
Loving support, prayer and acceptance of her and the decision reached is our job in my opinion.
If you consider this to be condemning..............well, I don't know
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J
Problem is that folks are too young when they first engage in activities which may can lead to unwanted pregnancy. Young folks are being told that they are free to go sleep with whomever, but that aint a safe thing to be doing. In addition theres a lot of things you can catch if youre on the liberal side of this. So, youngins, think this over: Is it worth it? Rather wait untill you meet your future husband/wife.
I hope I'm not derailing this thread now.
I hope I'm not derailing this thread now.
@p_rehbein
yes I saw your comment My thoughts is such a decision should only concern the victim, her family (if it was not incest) her Spiritual Advisor (Pastor) and her Doctor.
As for judgment........yeah, that ain't our job.......
Loving support, prayer and acceptance of her and the decision reached is our job in my opinion
and no its not condemning and I realise it sounded like it was pointed at you. It wasn't...it was aimed at the whole thread to be gentle with girls in this situation. Its a horrible place to be at
yes I saw your comment My thoughts is such a decision should only concern the victim, her family (if it was not incest) her Spiritual Advisor (Pastor) and her Doctor.
As for judgment........yeah, that ain't our job.......
Loving support, prayer and acceptance of her and the decision reached is our job in my opinion
and no its not condemning and I realise it sounded like it was pointed at you. It wasn't...it was aimed at the whole thread to be gentle with girls in this situation. Its a horrible place to be at
R
I can't edit my post, but I'm going to add......For the OP question. No, I don't believe there is any basis for abortion ever. I think I've already voiced that many times here so I wont dwell on that opinion, but I the foundation of my opinion is that God creates all life and I don't think we have any position to destroy it in any way, for any reason. I believe we live in a horrible world of mean and nasty people, which results in a pregnancy. I don't think this is anyone's fault but the person who chose to take things that weren't theirs. This is not the woman's fault, nor baby's fault. I have worked for years with raped women of all situations. When I think i've heard it all and I don't think a situation can get any worse, they do. As I pray over these women and situations I claim God's promise of, I will never leave you nor forsake you. These situations aren't God's fault. It's the result of sin. A sinful world we live in.
Raped victims need love, support, understanding and counseling. Most of all they need God if they've never heard.
The result of a pregnancy from the most horrible thing possible that could happen to a woman is not to be shoved under the rug by another horrible thing.
Abortion is not a quick fix to any crisis, trauma, or oops, I shouldn't have done that.
Each and every situation is different. Each and every woman is different but the same. They are loved by the one and only Heavenly Father that created them and the baby.
Opinions everyone will have and I get the point of the thread. But just like everything else in life....I don't think God is a situational ethics God.
Raped victims need love, support, understanding and counseling. Most of all they need God if they've never heard.
The result of a pregnancy from the most horrible thing possible that could happen to a woman is not to be shoved under the rug by another horrible thing.
Abortion is not a quick fix to any crisis, trauma, or oops, I shouldn't have done that.
Each and every situation is different. Each and every woman is different but the same. They are loved by the one and only Heavenly Father that created them and the baby.
Opinions everyone will have and I get the point of the thread. But just like everything else in life....I don't think God is a situational ethics God.
J
First of all I would like to say how glad I am to be reading this. I have seen my fair share of raped and beaten women, kids so scared they dont know where to look jumpin on their feet whenever you're adressing them. Completely destroyed human beings left without no hope. It is so heart breaking hearing their stories and slowly getting to know what took place
.
All these women wants to take "it" out, as they put it, to them it aint no human being they're carrying, but an image of the rapist, and I can understand their feelings, I really can, but I'm always telling them to get counselling because sometimes a change is taking place, making them realize that the life inside them is an innocent human being.
Having this said, allmost every one of these girls are from the lower social classes in society, and this is clearly a poverty problem we somehow needs to solve. Is it possible? Maybe. Maybe not.
.All these women wants to take "it" out, as they put it, to them it aint no human being they're carrying, but an image of the rapist, and I can understand their feelings, I really can, but I'm always telling them to get counselling because sometimes a change is taking place, making them realize that the life inside them is an innocent human being.
Having this said, allmost every one of these girls are from the lower social classes in society, and this is clearly a poverty problem we somehow needs to solve. Is it possible? Maybe. Maybe not.
A
Actually, those statistics are from before the Day-After pill, and unconnected to that pill. Why would they change because of a pill? Would that increase the defects in deviant brains that would suddenly change their minds on when and who they will take by force?
And rape targets don't have their souls killed. It just feels that way at the time. Something is taken violently, but it's not the soul.
And rape targets don't have their souls killed. It just feels that way at the time. Something is taken violently, but it's not the soul.
R
First of all I would like to say how glad I am to be reading this. I have seen my fair share of raped and beaten women, kids so scared they dont know where to look jumpin on their feet whenever you're adressing them. Completely destroyed human beings left without no hope. It is so heart breaking hearing their stories and slowly getting to know what took place.
All these women wants to take "it" out, as they put it, to them it aint no human being they're carrying, but an image of the rapist, and I can understand their feelings, I really can, but I'm always telling them to get counselling because sometimes a change is taking place, making them realize that the life inside them is an innocent human being.
Having this said, allmost every one of these girls are from the lower social classes in society, and this is clearly a poverty problem we somehow needs to solve. Is it possible? Maybe. Maybe not.
.All these women wants to take "it" out, as they put it, to them it aint no human being they're carrying, but an image of the rapist, and I can understand their feelings, I really can, but I'm always telling them to get counselling because sometimes a change is taking place, making them realize that the life inside them is an innocent human being.
Having this said, allmost every one of these girls are from the lower social classes in society, and this is clearly a poverty problem we somehow needs to solve. Is it possible? Maybe. Maybe not.
I don't believe it's a poverty problem in general, I think it's a sin problem all the way around.
I do believe there are more unwanted pregnancies among lower class but not by rape. Rape doesn't discriminate
J
I am just saying what I was observing. We rarely ever got in anybody from other parts of society, but of course, I'm not saying that this is not taking place there. But these are the girls I saw. These are the girls I was talking to. These are the girls I was comforting while they were making their statements. And yeah, I believe sin played a big role.
A
I was a believer when I was raped. (Backslidden, but a believer.) It was my wake up call. It was hell going through it -- and not just the rape but the dealing with it afterward. The only people I said anything to in those first two weeks were my roommates. I told them not to let any guys who came to the door for me in that they didn't know and to be more careful as they traveled around campus. (I look back and wonder what I was thinking, since it wasn't like I told the rapists my name, even though they were the ones who dropped me off at our apartment. Yes, I did some really stupid things, and yet I still didn't deserve that.) They demanded I leave their apartment. (Can't blame them for that. lol)
It was back in the days before the early-pregnancy tests were available, so I had three weeks to wait to find out if I was pregnant. Much prayer (along with the rest of what I did) seeking guidance on the best choice. It was very much a struggle. God did guide me through it though. I know which answer he gave me. MY answer (and mine alone) was, if I were pregnant, to have the baby. It wasn't the baby's fault who her father was. I wouldn't ever know who her father was. (Five guys raped me, and it wasn't like they gave their names to me either.) I trusted God to take care of her for me. I feared I would blame the baby for the sins of the father, so it was my decision (and mine alone) to put the baby up for adoption to give her a chance at a good life. (I spent enough time on this baby that never existed that I even imagined her as a daughter.)
God was gracious. It wasn't a miracle that there was no baby, given there is only a small likelihood of getting pregnant every time we have sex, and given rapists tend to be impotent to begin with. It is an assault, not sex.
I had to go through another struggle after that too. I knew having sex outside of marriage was a sin. At that time, that was the only commandment I never broke. Do I repent for having sex when it was never my choice?
You may think this is a simple and stupid question. Who in their right minds would think rape is breaking that commandment? Apparently I wasn't the only one, since a year and a half later I asked my pastor and he told me it was sin, but something I didn't mean to do. I gave up church for a while over that stupid one. I mean, I sin even when I try not to? What's the point in trying?
I hold that against the Christian Church too. That was no answer. That was straight up a LIE. I lived with that guilt for three years, before I knew the difference. I can run down the entire list of sins I did that night -- that wasn't one of them. It is, however, another problem I see with Christians thinking it's their responsibility to tell what they think, when a rape target is hurting. Why do people give opinion instead of something from God's word? Big gobs of text in there not blaming the one raped on the rape.
And that's another problem with Christians giving personal opinions in public without any concept of what we say matters. "Victim." How dare we use the word "victim" as if the poor, weak, lower-than-thou person is reduced to that? I was targeted! I was stupid. I was hitchhiking on a dark deserted road late at night. It was stupid. True, it was the only way to get home, but the solution wasn't to go out that far with no other way home, any time of day, and especially at night. So, I was targeted, not a victim.
And my actions during the ordeal tell me I'm no victim. I know what I did to stop the assault. "Victim" doesn't do that. I know what I did to deal with it afterward. "Victim" doesn't do that. I know what I did wrong. I know what I did right. I know God has taken care of me even at my stupidest moments. One scumbag had an ax over my head yelling at me to shut up or he'd chop my head off. I had a hood on my coat. I couldn't move my body, but I could move my one hand. I lifted the hood off my neck and taunted him to swing the ax and chop my head off. I'd rather that then being raped. It was stupid. It was also something that changed the rapists. They let me go after that. I didn't care which way it ended, but God was there taking care of me anyway, even in that. That's not the only moment when I can look back and see God with me that night.
And I did get help. I got help for that and the cause of my overall stupidity at the time. I was so deep into drugs that it felt like I was stoned only when I wasn't anymore. Realtiy was too bizarre for me to handle, and God got me to the point of realizing that right smack in the middle of not wanting reality. No victim there either.
So, I did get help. And those that helped me were kind enough to let me see the difference between stupidity and deserved. They also let me see braver, something I never expected was there. God gave me that.
And what for? To stop others who think they get a voice in the decisions of targets from thinking that very thing.
You don't get a choice in how God is working out the life of another. Your choice is simple. It is also the same choice of anyone who has gone through a violent crime or any other dark places in life. Do you trust God to work things out or not?
Trust God more. I was never a rape victim. I was once targeted. I am free now in God. I'm not the only one. We don't need the added weight of your convictions -- especially ill-conceived convictions -- to make our walk even harder. Sooner or later our walk gets easier, but by God's love and grace. The only thing we want out of our brothers and sisters is a bit more God-righteousness, not self-righteousness. Trust God more, since, in the end, everything he wills to happen happens, even if it doesn't look like God's answers are easy. His answers usually aren't easy.
It was back in the days before the early-pregnancy tests were available, so I had three weeks to wait to find out if I was pregnant. Much prayer (along with the rest of what I did) seeking guidance on the best choice. It was very much a struggle. God did guide me through it though. I know which answer he gave me. MY answer (and mine alone) was, if I were pregnant, to have the baby. It wasn't the baby's fault who her father was. I wouldn't ever know who her father was. (Five guys raped me, and it wasn't like they gave their names to me either.) I trusted God to take care of her for me. I feared I would blame the baby for the sins of the father, so it was my decision (and mine alone) to put the baby up for adoption to give her a chance at a good life. (I spent enough time on this baby that never existed that I even imagined her as a daughter.)
God was gracious. It wasn't a miracle that there was no baby, given there is only a small likelihood of getting pregnant every time we have sex, and given rapists tend to be impotent to begin with. It is an assault, not sex.
I had to go through another struggle after that too. I knew having sex outside of marriage was a sin. At that time, that was the only commandment I never broke. Do I repent for having sex when it was never my choice?
You may think this is a simple and stupid question. Who in their right minds would think rape is breaking that commandment? Apparently I wasn't the only one, since a year and a half later I asked my pastor and he told me it was sin, but something I didn't mean to do. I gave up church for a while over that stupid one. I mean, I sin even when I try not to? What's the point in trying?
I hold that against the Christian Church too. That was no answer. That was straight up a LIE. I lived with that guilt for three years, before I knew the difference. I can run down the entire list of sins I did that night -- that wasn't one of them. It is, however, another problem I see with Christians thinking it's their responsibility to tell what they think, when a rape target is hurting. Why do people give opinion instead of something from God's word? Big gobs of text in there not blaming the one raped on the rape.
And that's another problem with Christians giving personal opinions in public without any concept of what we say matters. "Victim." How dare we use the word "victim" as if the poor, weak, lower-than-thou person is reduced to that? I was targeted! I was stupid. I was hitchhiking on a dark deserted road late at night. It was stupid. True, it was the only way to get home, but the solution wasn't to go out that far with no other way home, any time of day, and especially at night. So, I was targeted, not a victim.
And my actions during the ordeal tell me I'm no victim. I know what I did to stop the assault. "Victim" doesn't do that. I know what I did to deal with it afterward. "Victim" doesn't do that. I know what I did wrong. I know what I did right. I know God has taken care of me even at my stupidest moments. One scumbag had an ax over my head yelling at me to shut up or he'd chop my head off. I had a hood on my coat. I couldn't move my body, but I could move my one hand. I lifted the hood off my neck and taunted him to swing the ax and chop my head off. I'd rather that then being raped. It was stupid. It was also something that changed the rapists. They let me go after that. I didn't care which way it ended, but God was there taking care of me anyway, even in that. That's not the only moment when I can look back and see God with me that night.
And I did get help. I got help for that and the cause of my overall stupidity at the time. I was so deep into drugs that it felt like I was stoned only when I wasn't anymore. Realtiy was too bizarre for me to handle, and God got me to the point of realizing that right smack in the middle of not wanting reality. No victim there either.
So, I did get help. And those that helped me were kind enough to let me see the difference between stupidity and deserved. They also let me see braver, something I never expected was there. God gave me that.
And what for? To stop others who think they get a voice in the decisions of targets from thinking that very thing.
You don't get a choice in how God is working out the life of another. Your choice is simple. It is also the same choice of anyone who has gone through a violent crime or any other dark places in life. Do you trust God to work things out or not?
Trust God more. I was never a rape victim. I was once targeted. I am free now in God. I'm not the only one. We don't need the added weight of your convictions -- especially ill-conceived convictions -- to make our walk even harder. Sooner or later our walk gets easier, but by God's love and grace. The only thing we want out of our brothers and sisters is a bit more God-righteousness, not self-righteousness. Trust God more, since, in the end, everything he wills to happen happens, even if it doesn't look like God's answers are easy. His answers usually aren't easy.
K
Exactly! Rape is used by pro choice people as the whole reason for abortion.The stats are that there are very few abortions performed because of rape or for health issues of the mother.Like 3%. Abortion is always wrong,God creates life only he has the right to take it away except in the case of justice when a criminal commits murder.Churches need to have more counseling for women in this situation. But it is never right to abort a child.