Gentiles

[Elin]

I've heard that us...... gentiles being grafted in are called spiritual Israel. Being that the 10 tribes were lost due to marrying out of the Jewish heritage and watered down not 100% Jewish anymore. I believe the Samaritans were like that and that is one reason the Jews hated them so much....

All the tribes are watered down. . .there are no official genealogical records.

 

[Elin]

HRM represents the "Hebrew Roots Movment."

The Gentiles were granted access to the Kingdom of God through Christ Jesus who was Jewish. In both the Old and New Covenants, Gentiles (strangers and sojourners) were accepted into the nation of Israel as citizens if they adhered to the law as Israel did. Israel (the Jews being part of that nation) were God's chosen in the Old Covenant. Now, the New Covenant ministry of both Paul and Jesus Christ, who were Jews, invited Gentiles into the church because of their belief in Jesus as the true Messiah.

Hopefully this will answer your question about "Therefore, the Jews are not grafted into the Gentile Church."

These scriptures should help with understanding that the Jews weren't added to the Gentiles, but the Gentiles were added to the Jews.

"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek." Romans 1:16

"Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: Romans 2:9-10

This was Gods process of events to make His chronology correct and perfect.

And now there is neither Jew nor Gentile, all are one in Christ--God's perfect chronology.

 

[Elin]

There is no Levitical priesthood.

false

Wrong. . .the NT reveals that it has been changed.

There's a new priesthood in town, of the order of Melchizedek, not Aaron, with Jesus Christ as its new eternal High Priest, who offered the once-for-all atoning sin sacrifice--himself.

 

[Elin]

"Future events" based on assumptions of uncertain private interpretation of prophetic riddles which others in the body of Christ interpret to mean things entirely different.

In other words....

Based on a thing that is accepted as true or as certain to happen, without proof of something belonging to, or for the use of one particular person, only explaining the meaning of something accurately, attempting to describe or predict what will happen in the future, making statements intentionally phrased so as to require ingenuity, which others in the body of Christ will explain this heard information to mean something that is generally believed or recognized to be valid, correct, or true, but not being completely the same as another or each other.

Please follow the thought process. LOL

The statement speaks for itself. . .

 

[Elin]

Continuing with John the Baptist

Now we can better understand Luke when he wrote “The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.” (Luke 16:16) Many people use this scripture to present the false narrative that the law ended with the ministry of John the Baptist, but in truth the Levite priesthood ended with John, for he was of the tribe of Levi, and this holy priesthood was carried into a New Testament through Christ Jesus.

Confirming the Levite heritage of John we read of “a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth. Annas and Caiaphas being the high priests, the word of God came unto John the son of Zacharias in the wilderness.” ( Luke 1:5 and 3:2) The relationship of “the course of Abia” can be found in Nehemiah 12:1-4.
In order for Jesus to fulfill the role of the Priesthood that would soon be transferred to His tribe of Judah at the mount of transfiguration,

Nope. . .there is no Biblical basis for this asslumption.

The words spoken by the Son in these last days (Heb 1:1-2) through the NT writers reveal that the Levitical priesthood was changed, Christ was made High Priest of a new order, the order of Melchizedek, of which he is the eternal High Priest who offered the once-for-all atoning sin sacrifice--himself.
There is no other priesthood.

And the Levitical priests were not "baptized" into office.
They were ordained, where washing was simply the first step, which also included pouring on of oil, and applying of blood.

It required the whole process to ordain them into the priesthood, not just the first step of washing.

There is no ordinance of baptism in the OT.

You are making that up. . .and it is contra-NT.

 

[Elin]

Continuing with Gentiles being added to the Kingdom of God through true spiritual baptizm.

Now those of us who believe in Christ, and trust the good news of the gospel of God through Christ are “baptized” into the Kingdom of God as a member of His “Royal Priesthood in Christ Jesus. “But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light; (1 Peter 2:9)

Baptism by the washing of water is also mentioned in Leviticus chapters 13 through 15 as a cleansing by water and the shedding of blood.

There is no baptism in the book of Leviticus.

There is no ordinance of baptism in the entire OT.

This is related to curing leprosy, (a metaphor of corruption) before the priest becomes involved, and purity after His work is fulfilled/completed.

“A glorious high throne from the beginning is the place of our sanctuary. O Lord, the hope of Israel,” (Jeremiah 17:12-13a) *The word “hope” in verse 13 is “mikveh” which (in short) means abiding, gathering together in hope with a plentiful collection of water. “For we are saved by hope:” (Romans 8:24a)

“And on the sabbath we went out of the city by a river side, where prayer was wont to be made; and we sat down, and spake unto the women which resorted thither. And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, which worshipped God, heard us: whose heart the Lord opened, that she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul. And when she was baptized, and her household, she besought us, saying, If ye have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come into my house, and abide there. And she constrained us.” (Acts 16:13-15)

To Jewish onlookers, Lydia's immersion at the side of the river was a “*mikvah,” a gathering together by the water, based on the covenant of immersion for the Priesthood, first beginning with the tribe of Levi,

There is no Biblica basis for a "covenant of immersion" in the OT.

The priests were not immersed at the washing of ordination.

You are very confused. . .








This is related to curing leprosy, (a metaphor of corruption) before the priest becomes involved, and purity after His work is fulfilled/completed.

“A glorious high throne from the beginning is the place of our sanctuary. O Lord, the hope of Israel,” (Jeremiah 17:12-13a) *The word “hope” in verse 13 is “mikveh” which (in short) means abiding, gathering together in hope with a plentiful collection of water. “For we are saved by hope:” (Romans 8:24a)

“And on the sabbath we went out of the city by a river side, where prayer was wont to be made; and we sat down, and spake unto the women which resorted thither. And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, which worshipped God, heard us: whose heart the Lord opened, that she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul. And when she was baptized, and her household, she besought us, saying, If ye have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come into my house, and abide there. And she constrained us.” (Acts 16:13-15)

To Jewish onlookers, Lydia's immersion at the side of the river was a “*mikvah,” a gathering together by the water, based on the covenant of immersion for the Priesthood, first beginning with the tribe of Levi, and finalized (fulfilled) by Jesus Christ, our descendant from the tribe of Judah.
[/QUOTE]

 

[Elin]

“Yet the Lord testified against Israel, and against Judah, by all the prophets, and by all the seers, saying, Turn ye from your evil ways, and keep my commandments and my statutes, according to all the law which I commanded your fathers, and which I sent to you by my servants the prophets. Notwithstanding they would not hear, but hardened their necks, like to the neck of their fathers, that did not believe in the Lord their God.” (2 Kings 17:13)

“Hearken unto me, my people; and give ear unto me, O my nation: for a law shall proceed from me, and I will make my judgment to rest for a light of the people.” (Isa. 51:4)

“Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.” (Matthew 21:43)
Yes, it was given to the Gentiles.

God reacted toward Israel, either rejecting, or accepting their actions in light of His unchanging righteous judgments according to His instructions. God being unchanged, and Jesus being His Son who reacted solely according to His Father's will, why do those who say they have been added to the Kingdom of God (Gentiles)

They have been added to those OT believers who did not reject their Messiah, most of whom did.

declare that Jesus judges the New Testament church differently than His own Father did Israel?

Baloney. . .all who reject Jesus Christ are condemned, Jew and Gentile alike.

 

[prove-all]

There is no ordinance of baptism in the entire OT.


There is no Biblica basis for a "covenant of immersion" in the OT.

The priests were not immersed at the washing of ordination.

You are very confused. .

- so these verses in the n.t. do not count ? maybe you are confused about things

1Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant,
how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;

2And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;

3And did all eat the same spiritual meat;

4And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock
that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

 

[prove-all]

Wrong. . .the NT reveals that it has been changed.

There's a new priesthood in town, of the order of Melchizedek, not Aaron, with Jesus Christ as its new eternal High Priest, who offered the once-for-all atoning sin sacrifice--himself.

- I believe this verse was said after Christ arose.

4For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest,
[seeing that there are priests] that offer gifts according to the law:


If ye can break my covenant of the day, and my covenant of the night
Then may also my covenant be broken with David my servant,

that he should not have a son to reign upon his throne;
and with the Levites the priests, my ministers.


Deuteronomy 12:19 (KJV)
19Take heed to thyself that thou forsake not the Levite as long as thou livest upon the earth.

24Considerest thou not what this people have spoken, saying,
The (two) families which the Lord hath chosen, he hath even cast them off?

25Thus saith the Lord; [If ]my covenant be not with day and night,
and if I have not appointed the ordinances of heaven and earth;

26[Then] will I cast away (the seed) (of Jacob), and David my servant, so that I will
not take any of his seed to be [rulers over the seed] of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob:
for I will cause their captivity to return, and have mercy on them.

 

[prove-all]

They have been added to those OT believers who did not reject their Messiah, most of whom did.

you might want to go back and reread the old test.

the faith that Israel did not have was in Gods Sabbath day,

they where overthrown in the wilderness for profaning his sabbaths,

and the new testement gives a warning to us about this

 

[just-me]

God reacted toward Israel, either rejecting, or accepting their actions in light of His unchanging righteous judgments according to His instructions. *God being unchanged, and Jesus being His Son who reacted solely according to His Father's will, why do those who say they have been added to the Kingdom of God (Gentiles) declare that Jesus judges the New Testament church differently than His own Father did Israel?

Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever” and He, “The same was in the beginning with God” taking into consideration that “there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.” (Hebrews 13:8, John 1:2 and Romans 10:12)

“Yet the Lord testified against Israel, and against Judah, by all the prophets, and by all the seers, saying, Turn ye from your evil ways, and keep my commandments and my statutes, according to all the law which I commanded your fathers, and which I sent to you by my servants the prophets. Notwithstanding they would not hear, but hardened their necks, like to the neck of their fathers, that did not believe in the Lord their God.” (2 Kings 17:13)

“Hearken unto me, my people; and give ear unto me, O my nation: for a law shall proceed from me, and I will make my judgment to rest for a light of the people.” (Isa. 51:4)

“Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.” (Matthew 21:43)

God reacted toward Israel, either rejecting, or accepting their actions in light of His unchanging righteous judgments according to His instructions. God being unchanged, and Jesus being His Son who reacted solely according to His Father's will, why do those who say they have been added to the Kingdom of God (Gentiles) declare that Jesus judges the New Testament church differently than His own Father did Israel?

Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever” and He, “The same was in the beginning with God” taking into consideration that “there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.” (Hebrews 13:8, John 1:2 and Romans 10:12)

God reacted toward Israel, either rejecting, or accepting their actions in light of His unchanging righteous judgments according to His instructions. God being unchanged, and Jesus being His Son who reacted solely according to His Father's will, why do those who say they have been added to the Kingdom of God (Gentiles)

They have been added to those OT believers who did not reject their Messiah, most of whom did.

declare that Jesus judges the New Testament church differently than His own Father did Israel?

Baloney. . .all who reject Jesus Christ are condemned, Jew and Gentile alike.

Please quote me and others to keep presented explanations in context. Other people will think that you are disagreeing with me rather than agreeing. Here is my complete explanation quoted above and quoted below.

*God being unchanged, and Jesus being His Son who reacted solely according to His Father's will, why do those who say they have been added to the Kingdom of God (Gentiles) declare that Jesus judges the New Testament church differently than His own Father did Israel?

 

[oldthennew]

this is the Covenant of Phinehas.

NUM.25:12-13.
Therefore say, behold, I give to him My Covenant of Peace;
And it shall be to him and his descendants after him a Covenant of an Everlasting Priesthood,
because he was zealous for his God, and made atonement for the Children of Israel.'

God made a Covenant with Phinehas, and IF THIS COVENANT CAN BE BROKEN, so ALL OF THE OTHERS.

MALACHI 2:4.
Then you shall know that I have sent this Commandment to you, that My Covenant with Levi may continue,
says The Lord of Hosts.
this is at the least, 'doubly-enforced', and it is true that the Levitical Priesthood is not active right now,
that we know of, but the scriptures are clear that 'it will be active in the future'.

ISAIAH 56, the time setting is, where the Lord's House shall be called a House of Prayer for all nations.
7.
Even them I will bring to My Holy Mountain, and make them joyful in My House of Prayer.
Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices will be accepted on My altar; for My house shall be called
a House of Prayer for all nations.

ZECH.14:21. a Kingdom Prophecy.
Yes, every pot in Jerusalem and Judah shall be Holiness to the Lord of Hosts. Every one who sacrifices shall come
and take them and cook in them.

ISAIAH 66:21. another Kingdom Prophecy.
And I will also take some of them for priests and Levites, says the Lord.

people will ask WHY is The Lord going to re-instate the animal-sacrifice, well, as the 'first animal sacrifices' pointed
towards the FUTURE sacrifice of Christ, the latter will point BACK to the 'sacrifice of Jesus Christ', for the whole purpose
of the Law, including the Levitical Priesthood sacrificial system is to show us our 'sin' and 'point' us to the
Sacrifice of Jesus Christ..nothing new, just done in a different way...
yes, it is very distasteful to some's sensitivity, but it IS the way of God, and there are numerous
Kingdom scriptures/prophecies to bare this out....

 

[just-me]

this is the Covenant of Phinehas.

NUM.25:12-13.
Therefore say, behold, I give to him My Covenant of Peace;
And it shall be to him and his descendants after him a Covenant of an Everlasting Priesthood,
because he was zealous for his God, and made atonement for the Children of Israel.'

God made a Covenant with Phinehas, and IF THIS COVENANT CAN BE BROKEN, so ALL OF THE OTHERS.

MALACHI 2:4.
Then you shall know that I have sent this Commandment to you, that My Covenant with Levi may continue,
says The Lord of Hosts.
this is at the least, 'doubly-enforced', and it is true that the Levitical Priesthood is not active right now,
that we know of, but the scriptures are clear that 'it will be active in the future'.

ISAIAH 56, the time setting is, where the Lord's House shall be called a House of Prayer for all nations.
7.
Even them I will bring to My Holy Mountain, and make them joyful in My House of Prayer.
Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices will be accepted on My altar; for My house shall be called
a House of Prayer for all nations.

ZECH.14:21. a Kingdom Prophecy.
Yes, every pot in Jerusalem and Judah shall be Holiness to the Lord of Hosts. Every one who sacrifices shall come
and take them and cook in them.

ISAIAH 66:21. another Kingdom Prophecy.
And I will also take some of them for priests and Levites, says the Lord.

people will ask WHY is The Lord going to re-instate the animal-sacrifice, well, as the 'first animal sacrifices' pointed
towards the FUTURE sacrifice of Christ, the latter will point BACK to the 'sacrifice of Jesus Christ', for the whole purpose
of the Law, including the Levitical Priesthood sacrificial system is to show us our 'sin' and 'point' us to the
Sacrifice of Jesus Christ..nothing new, just done in a different way...
yes, it is very distasteful to some's sensitivity, but it IS the way of God, and there are numerous
Kingdom scriptures/prophecies to bare this out....

I question this, but don't necessarily disagree. Now there will be sacrifices in the future, but I have always thought that they will be sacrifices and offerings that will represent dedication and communication with YHWH, but not for trespasses or sins to be atoned for. The New Covenant puts sins into remission, and the Old just covers them (atonement). The burned offerings represent devotion, and the peace offerings represent connection and acceptance with God. They were also eaten to sustain the priesthood. There will be 12,000 virgins from the tribe of Levi. ("from the tribe of Levi 12,000," Revelation 7:7)
I'm being picky LOL
God bless you my friends

 

[Elin]

- so these verses in the n.t. do not count ? maybe you are confused about things

1Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant,
how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;

2And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;

3And did all eat the same spiritual meat;

4And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock
that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

Yes, Paul has spiritualized the OT texts.

The cloud was not a "washing" with water, nor an immersion in water.

 

[prove-all]

24For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries,
and will bring you into your own land.

25Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean:
from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

26A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you:
and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.


27And I will put my spirit within you, [and cause you to walk in [my statutes],
and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them].

28And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers;
and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.

31Then shall ye remember your own evil ways, and your doings that were not good,
and shall lothe yourselves in your own sight for your iniquities and for your abominations.

32Not for your sakes do I this, saith the Lord God, be it known unto you:
be ashamed and confounded for your own ways, O house of Israel.

 

[prove-all]

Yes, Paul has spiritualized the OT texts.

The cloud was not a "washing" with water, nor an immersion in water.

- it says all where baptized in the clouds and sea

And the children of Israel went into the midst of the sea upon the dry ground:
and the waters were a wall unto them on their right hand, and on their left.​

 

[Elin]

- I believe this verse was said after Christ arose.

Yes, this was.

The old (Mosiac) covenant has been made ancient, obsolete (Heb 8:13).

Your setting the Scriptures against themselves is ipso facto proof you do not understand them correctly,
for the word of God does not contradict itself.

4For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest,
[seeing that there are priests] that offer gifts according to the law:

Yes, he would not be a priest in the order of Aaron because he was not of the tribe of Levi.

However, he is a priest in the order of Melchizedek, and its eternal High Priest.
There are not two orders of priests, and the order of Melchizedek is unending, eternal.
There is no other priesthood.

The change in the priesthood (Heb 7:12) required a change in the law (Heb 7:12) given to the people (Heb 7:11),
which was set aside because it was weak and useless to make perfect, and
God's people are no longer under the law (1Co 9:20-21),
the old (Mosaic) covenant has been made ancient/obsolete (Heb 8:13),
and God's one people are under the new covenant (Lk 22:20)
whose laws are two (Mt 22:37-39) and
obedience to which accomplishes, fulfills all God's law (Mt 22:40; Ro 13:8, 9, 10; Jas 2:8).

The old (Mosaic) covenant, the Levitical priesthood, and Mosaic regulations have all been set aside
and replaced with the new covenant (Lk 22:20), the eternal priesthood in the order of Melchizedek and
the new covenant laws of Mt 22:37-39, obedience to which is obedience to all of God's laws (Mt 22:40;
Ro 13:8, 9, 10).

 

[Elin]

you might want to go back and reread the old test.

the faith that Israel did not have was in Gods Sabbath day,

they where overthrown in the wilderness for profaning his sabbaths,

and the new testement gives a warning to us about this

The faith Israel did not have in the NT was in Jesus of Nazareth, their Messiah, whom they rejected.

 

[just-me]

- it says all where baptized in the clouds and sea

And the children of Israel went into the midst of the sea upon the dry ground:
and the waters were a wall unto them on their right hand, and on their left.
​

I agree with you both in spiritual reality. Baptism is being immersed into a circumstance or happening as being fully involved i.e. submersed fully. This is commemorated by the water baptism of John, beginning before John with the washing of the Levitial priesthood of the OT in respect to cleansing. It fits fully together in a spiral sense even though Israel walked across the floor of the Red Sea on dry land. They were led by a cloud during the day, and a pillar of fire by night fully immersed in the circumstances at hand. Baptism with water is an outward statement that confirms a total inward desire to consume God's will. Totally involved!

And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 1 Corinthians 10:2

 

[Elin]

I agree with you both in spiritual reality. Baptism is being immersed into a circumstance or happening as being fully involved i.e. submersed fully. This is commemorated by the water baptism of John, beginning before John with the washing of the Levitial priesthood of the OT in respect to cleansing. It fits fully together in a spiral sense even though Israel walked across the floor of the Red Sea on dry land. They were led by a cloud during the day, and a pillar of fire by night fully immersed in the circumstances at hand. Baptism with water is an outward statement that confirms a total inward desire to consume God's will. Totally involved!

And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 1 Corinthians 10:2

Yes, and they were not washed in the cloud or the sea.
There was no ordinance of baptism in the OT.

Nor was washing of lepers in the OT a baptism.
Likewise, Scripture shows the priests were ordained into the priesthood (Lev 8:22), it does not say they were baptized into the priesthood.

Washing in the OT was a symbol of cleansing by the blood of Jesus through faith (Ro 3:25), which blood cleanses of all sin (1Jn 1:7).

Nor was the Levitical priesthood transferred to the tribe of Judah.
There is one, and only one priesthood, in the order of Melchizedek, of which Christ Jesus is the eternal High Priest, which necessarily bars any other priesthood.

All this is simply trimming the sail of NT doctrine to fit the jib of your uncertain private interpretations of prophetic riddles.