Gentiles

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Jan 19, 2013
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“But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.” Or, the law is not contrary to the fruit of the Spirit. (Galatians 5:22-23)

“For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death. But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.” (Romans 7:5-6)

As the Pharisees compromised God's Torah and made it repressive, a Gentile doctrine that compromises God's law to make it inert produces the same result as the Pharisaical doctrine.

It's God's complete revelation in the words spoken by the Son in these last days (Heb 1:1-2) through the NT writers which reveals that the Mosaic regulations (Eph 2:15) and the Mosaic covenant (Heb 8:13) are no longer operative.

Your contra-NT doctrine is that of the heretical JW cult.
 

BS

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May 13, 2015
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It's God's complete revelation in the words spoken by the Son in these last days (Heb 1:1-2) through the NT writers which reveals that the Mosaic regulations (Eph 2:15) and the Mosaic covenant (Heb 8:13) are no longer operative.

Your contra-NT doctrine is that of the heretical JW cult.
Mic 7:2 The good man is perished out of the earth: and there is none upright among men: they all lie in wait for blood; they hunt every man his brother with a net.
Mic 7:3 That they may do evil with both hands earnestly, the prince asketh, and the judge asketh for a reward; and the great man, he uttereth his mischievous desire: so they wrap it up.
Mic 7:4 The best of them is as a brier: the most upright is sharper than a thorn hedge: the day of thy watchmen and thy visitation cometh; now shall be their perplexity.
Mic 7:5 Trust ye not in a friend, put ye not confidence in a guide: keep the doors of thy mouth from her that lieth in thy bosom.
Mic 7:6 For the son dishonoureth the father, the daughter riseth up against her mother, the daughter in law against her mother in law; a man's enemies are the men of his own house.
Mic 7:7 Therefore I will look unto the LORD; I will wait for the God of my salvation: my God will hear me.

Rev 7:2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,
Rev 7:3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.
Rev 7:4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
 
Mar 4, 2013
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Daniel 7:13-14
13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.
14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.

Verse 14 obviously includes Gentiles.


Daniel saw Jesus, and was chagrined that God's law was forsaken. As Jesus said salvation is of the Jews to the Samaritan woman, so should we, as Gentiles be chagrined like Daniel, a Jew (Daniel 1:6) when the law of God is forsaken. Jesus Christ was a Jew.

Daniel 9:4-13
4 And I prayed unto the Lord my God, and made my confession, and said, O Lord, the great and dreadful God, keeping the covenant and mercy to them that love him, and to them that keep his commandments;
5 We have sinned, and have committed iniquity, and have done wickedly, and have rebelled, even by departing from thy precepts and from thy judgments:
6 Neither have we hearkened unto thy servants the prophets, which spake in thy name to our kings, our princes, and our fathers, and to all the people of the land.
7 O Lord, righteousness belongeth unto thee, but unto us confusion of faces, as at this day; to the men of Judah, and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and unto all Israel, that are near, and that are far off, through all the countries whither thou hast driven them, because of their trespass that they have trespassed against thee.
8 O Lord, to us belongeth confusion of face, to our kings, to our princes, and to our fathers, because we have sinned against thee.
9 To the Lord our God belong mercies and forgivenesses, though we have rebelled against him;
10 Neither have we obeyed the voice of the Lord our God, to walk in his laws, which he set before us by his servants the prophets.

11 Yea, all Israel have transgressed thy law, even by departing, that they might not obey thy voice; therefore the curse is poured upon us, and the oath that is written in the law of Moses the servant of God, because we have sinned against him.
12 And he hath confirmed his words, which he spake against us, and against our judges that judged us, by bringing upon us a great evil: for under the whole heaven hath not been done as hath been done upon Jerusalem.
13 As it is written in the law of Moses, all this evil is come upon us: yet made we not our prayer before the Lord our God, that we might turn from our iniquities, and understand thy truth.

Why does false doctrine demand to separate members of the body of Christ from the Old Testament truth instead of all Gentiles and Jews being joined together with the Father and the Son as was taught by the Apostle Paul? Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment. 1 Corinthians 1:10
 
Jan 19, 2013
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Daniel 7:13-14
13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.
14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.

Verse 14 obviously includes Gentiles.


Daniel saw Jesus, and was chagrined that God's law was forsaken. As Jesus said salvation is of the Jews to the Samaritan woman, so should we, as Gentiles be chagrined like Daniel, a Jew (Daniel 1:6) when the law of God is forsaken. Jesus Christ was a Jew.

However, God's law, which is the law of Christ (1Co 9:21) in Mt 22:37-39, is indeed fulfilled, and not forsaken, in obedience to the new covenant law of Christ (Mt 22:40; Ro 13: 8, 9, 10).








 
Mar 4, 2013
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There is no difference in Almighty God and His Son who created all things. If there was a difference, then the Father would not be "well pleased" in His "beloved Son."Jesus confirms the truth in that there is no difference between Him and His Father. Jesus says "When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things." (John 8:28)

There is not a different law that Christ didn't deliver to us other than His own Father's law that was given at Sinai. If a person believes and presents that there is a difference, they are also preaching a different Jesus, which is formed by a carnal mind that is void of the Holy Spirit's understanding.

"For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him." (2 Corinthians 11:4)

So did Paul worship without the truth that came from the Father of Jesus recorded in the Old Covenant? Is it really heresy to worship "believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets?" (Acts 24:14)

Jesus came to teach the correct concepts of the Torah, not to change it into a different law. If He changed it, He could not have completed or fulfilled it.

"For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:" (2 Thessalonians 2:7-11)

Paul, a minister to the Gentiles, didn't preach a different Jesus that came to change or make void His Father's words. If that were true (which it isn't) Jesus, being the Word of God would also be abolished and void. God gave us a brain and His Spirit to understand these things. Don't believe a lie.

 

Elin

Banned
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
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There is no difference in Almighty God and His Son who created all things. If there was a difference, then the Father would not be "well pleased" in His "beloved Son."Jesus confirms the truth in that there is no difference between Him and His Father. Jesus says "When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things." (John 8:28)

There is not a different law that Christ didn't deliver to us other than His own Father's law that was given at Sinai. If a person believes and presents that there is a difference, they are also preaching a different Jesus, which is formed by a carnal mind that is void of the Holy Spirit's understanding.

"For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him." (2 Corinthians 11:4)

So did Paul worship without the truth that came from the Father of Jesus recorded in the Old Covenant? Is it really heresy to worship "believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets?" (Acts 24:14)

Jesus came to teach the correct concepts of the Torah, not to change it into a different law. If He changed it, He could not have completed or fulfilled it.

"For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:" (2 Thessalonians 2:7-11)

Paul, a minister to the Gentiles, didn't preach a different Jesus that came to change or make void His Father's words. If that were true (which it isn't) Jesus, being the Word of God would also be abolished and void. God gave us a brain and His Spirit to understand these things. Don't believe a lie.
Don't believe the false doctrine of the hereitical JW cult.
 

Elin

Banned
Jan 19, 2013
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God spoke to us through Jesus Christ,
Yes he did, in these last days (Heb 1:1-2) through the NT writers.

and Christ Jesus is the Creator of all things who also spoke to "the fathers by the prophets."
Nope. . .that is not stated in Scripture.

Prophecy was received from the Holy Spirit, not the Son.

God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit are three different persons in the one true God (Mt 28:9), based on their differing divine functions.

More time in "the words spoken by the Son in these last days" (Heb 1:1-2) through the NT writers is much in order here.
 

Elin

Banned
Jan 19, 2013
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a Gentile doctrine that compromises God's law to make it inert
A JW false doctrine that contradicts the NT word of God is heretical.

Is the entire NT the holy word of God, to be believed by all Christians?







 

BS

Banned
May 13, 2015
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Yes he did, in these last days (Heb 1:1-2) through the NT writers.


Nope. . .that is not stated in Scripture.

Prophecy was received from the Holy Spirit, not the Son.

God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit are three different persons in the one true God (Mt 28:9), based on their differing divine functions.

More time in "the words spoken by the Son in these last days" (Heb 1:1-2) through the NT writers is much in order here.
Do you think God would contradict Himself?

Our opinion does not matter! When the Paul has turned from Saul there WAS NOT NT written!
And when we appear of front of Him He would not ask me about you, nor will ask you about me.


Rom 11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, were graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

Because my poor understanding is a part of the whole pictures and if I refuse the root I will die. Our root are Jewish and we are branches only. So if we are wild accepted, then why we are against our own root?

Rom 11:11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

So if we claim against Jewish we claim against Lord, because:

Jer 31:37 Thus saith the LORD; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the LORD.

Jeshua Mashiah is Jewish. He is Son of God.

We have to be glad that we are graffed. And if we are not grateful - that means we are cutting our own root. How long we will live after it? ... and in who can used such person meanwhile? ... without even that person understand... because Antichrist means INSTEAD of Christ.

The matter is not about better understanding. The matter is about our souls and only the enemy wants we to be separated - he wants us against one another because of envy of pride of our knowledge or whatever may it be.
I am only a human. My knowledge is not enough. I think we must be grateful of the GRACE and to keep our gift cherish - to be thankful and never been only consumers. And to care about the root and know them, because they are feeding us.
 
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Elin

Banned
Jan 19, 2013
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Do you think God would contradict Himself?

Our opinion does not matter! When the Paul has turned from Saul there WAS NOT NT written!
And when we appear of front of Him He would not ask me about you, nor will ask you about me.
Agreed. . .your point?

Rom 11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, were graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

Because my poor understanding is a part of the whole pictures and if I refuse the root I will die.
Our root are Jewish and we are branches only. So if we are wild accepted, then
why we are against our own root?
My root is Jesus Christ, who is the trunk of the tree, which sprang from the holy faith of the patriarchs, its roots.

Rom 11:11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

So if we claim against Jewish we claim against Lord
,
What claim. . .against believing Jews?

There are no claims against believing Jews, they are Christians.

Unbelieving Jews of the last 2,000 years, as well as the same of the future, are condemned,
just as unbelieving Gentiles of the last 2,000 years, as well as the same of the future, are condemned.
Since Christ, all are on the same footing, salvation is only by faith in the Promise, Jesus Christ.
All others are condemned (Jn 3:36).
 
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BS

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May 13, 2015
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Agreed. . .your point?


....
There are no claims against believing Jews, they are Christians.

Unbelieving Jews of the last 2,000 years, as well as the same of the future, are condemned,
just as unbelieving Gentiles of the last 2,000 years, as well as the same of the future, are condemned.
Since Christ, all are on the same footing, salvation is only by faith in the Promise, Jesus Christ.
All others are condemned (Jn 3:36).
I was unbelieving. WAS I CONDEMNED?
 

Elin

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Jan 19, 2013
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I was unbelieving. WAS I CONDEMNED?
All are enemies of God (Ro 5:10) until they come to saving faith in Jesus Christ.

If they die in their unbelief, they are eternally condemned.
 

BS

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May 13, 2015
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All are enemies of God (Ro 5:10) until they come to saving faith in Jesus Christ.

If they die in their unbelief, they are eternally condemned.
Rom 2:9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
Rom 2:10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
Rom 2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
Rom 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
Rom 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
 
Mar 4, 2013
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Separating Jesus from God, the law from grace, works from faith, the Old Testament from the New Testament, and Jews from Gentiles is the core doctrine of the Nicolaitanes.

Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks;I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:And hast borne, and hast patience, and for my name's sake hast laboured, and hast not fainted.Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitanes, which I also hate. (Revelation 2:1-6)

Jolly ole Saint Nicolas.

the Nicolaitans, Their Doctrine and Deeds.
 

BS

Banned
May 13, 2015
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Separating Jesus from God, the law from grace, works from faith, the Old Testament from the New Testament, and Jews from Gentiles is the core doctrine of the Nicolaitanes.

Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks;I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:And hast borne, and hast patience, and for my name's sake hast laboured, and hast not fainted.Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitanes, which I also hate. (Revelation 2:1-6)

Jolly ole Saint Nicolas.

the Nicolaitans, Their Doctrine and Deeds.
I have not know who are Nicolaitans. Was searching but did not find. Now see that they are separating the Bible... interesting! Thanks
 

Elin

Banned
Jan 19, 2013
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Separating Jesus from God, the law from grace, works from faith, the Old Testament from the New Testament, and Jews from Gentiles is the core doctrine of the Nicolaitanes.
There is no basis for this false doctrine of the heretical JW cult regarding the specific teachings of the heretical Nicolatians.
 

Elin

Banned
Jan 19, 2013
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Rom 2:9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
Rom 2:10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
Rom 2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
Rom 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and
as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
Rom 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
Yes, in Ro 1-3 Paul is showing the unrighteousness of all mankind, and in chp 2 he shows the unrighteousness of the Jews based on their sin against the law, because they were not perfect doers of the law and justified.

All Jews prior to Christ were under the condemnation of the law (Gal 3:10) because of imperfect obedience, and after Christ, all Jews who rejected Jesus of Nazareth were under condemnation for unbelief.
 
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BS

Banned
May 13, 2015
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Yes, in Ro 1-3 Paul is showing the unrighteousness of all mankind, and in chp 2 he shows the unrighteousness of the Jews based on their sin against the law, because they were not perfect doers of the law and justified.

All Jews prior to Christ were under the condemnation of the law (Gal 3:10) because of imperfect obedience, and after Christ, all Jews who rejected Jesus of Nazareth were under condemnation for unbelief.
No :) And I am sorry you can not understand that. Only that one who was doing it because of spiritual envious was :) or spiritual proud. There is no Paul against Christ nor Paul against Father and never Christ against Father! Your understanding is similar to that one which caused Holocaust. Look inside you and try to find mercy and love to them.If you can't,then you have a problem.
 

Elin

Banned
Jan 19, 2013
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Elin said:
Yes, in Ro 1-3 Paul is showing the unrighteousness of all mankind, and in chp 2 he shows the unrighteousness of the Jews based on their sin against the law, because they were not perfect doers of the law and justified.

All Jews prior to Christ were under the condemnation of the law (Gal 3:10) because of imperfect obedience, and after Christ, all Jews who rejected Jesus of Nazareth were under condemnation for unbelief.
No :)

And I am sorry you can not understand that. Only that one who was doing it because of spiritual envious was :) or spiritual proud. There is no Paul against Christ nor Paul against Father and never Christ against Father! Your understanding is similar to that one which caused Holocaust. Look inside you and try to find mercy and love to them.If you can't,then you have a problem.
Is the entire NT the holy word of God, to be believed by all Christians?
 

BS

Banned
May 13, 2015
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Is the entire NT the holy word of God, to be believed by all Christians?
:) Now you just replace words NT -OT and Christians -Fariceies in your sentecse above and you will understand why they crussified Christ and what were feeling inside them. Sound similar? Can you see now what happens when one separates NT from OT?