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G
It is not that simple. Really isn't.
The Arby's sandwich and other food is amoral. Serving food to a customer does not give the appearance of support to the moral behavior or lack there of the guest. Additionally, the employee sign on to serve the general public.
The Kentucky clerk did not phantom that there would ever come a time that this country would ever, ever, ever take God's own plan and ordinance and pervert it. The State has been recognizing marriage as that between a male and a femal, a man and a woman since its founding.
But in came the funding of universities, the fortresses of liberal ideology. And too people started listening to false teachers. And false charges were splashed before us: You hate gays. Etc. Etc. Then to really top it off, an antichrist became pres. And he changed his mind. He had a conversation with his family at their dinner table and realized his daughters' friends had parents who were same sex couples. ....
Well Supreme Court of Sin rules, and now same sex is a right and protected.
The clerk did not sign onto that. Not one bit. Even if she took an oath.
There's another fact associated with the clerk that is not with the server. The clerk has to have her name appear as authorizing ??? the marriage. There's more to that than simply handing a same sex couple a bag of food. (Not same sex couple in the report, but just added that for emphasis, which is now gone by this clarification). I understand the clerk's position. I don't understand the server's.
Wish the courts would hear the complaint of the clerk.
Her job description changed and became a moral issue for her.
The Arby's sandwich and other food is amoral. Serving food to a customer does not give the appearance of support to the moral behavior or lack there of the guest. Additionally, the employee sign on to serve the general public.
The Kentucky clerk did not phantom that there would ever come a time that this country would ever, ever, ever take God's own plan and ordinance and pervert it. The State has been recognizing marriage as that between a male and a femal, a man and a woman since its founding.
But in came the funding of universities, the fortresses of liberal ideology. And too people started listening to false teachers. And false charges were splashed before us: You hate gays. Etc. Etc. Then to really top it off, an antichrist became pres. And he changed his mind. He had a conversation with his family at their dinner table and realized his daughters' friends had parents who were same sex couples. ....
Well Supreme Court of Sin rules, and now same sex is a right and protected.
The clerk did not sign onto that. Not one bit. Even if she took an oath.
There's another fact associated with the clerk that is not with the server. The clerk has to have her name appear as authorizing ??? the marriage. There's more to that than simply handing a same sex couple a bag of food. (Not same sex couple in the report, but just added that for emphasis, which is now gone by this clarification). I understand the clerk's position. I don't understand the server's.
Wish the courts would hear the complaint of the clerk.
Her job description changed and became a moral issue for her.
No because whether the issue is moral or amoral a person has a right to refuse to do that which goes against their beliefs.
I agree with most of your analyses though on how society has become debauched, though I'd say the Supreme Court by trying to force sexual abuse to be recognized as marriage has not made it lawful nor does it make it a right, but has rather made the Supreme Court illegitimate by violating Theory of Law, which is the basis for which the Supreme Court had legitimacy to act as a court of law.
I agree with most of your analyses though on how society has become debauched, though I'd say the Supreme Court by trying to force sexual abuse to be recognized as marriage has not made it lawful nor does it make it a right, but has rather made the Supreme Court illegitimate by violating Theory of Law, which is the basis for which the Supreme Court had legitimacy to act as a court of law.
G
If you see the point, then go back and change the statement. The statement is not valid. It is not precise or clear.
"He has the right to deny service to anyone he wants to." That's not correct. Perhaps not valid. Why? Because "right" is not the fitting word.
He has the power to deny service. But he does not have the right. Arby's doesn't give him the right. God doesn't give him the right.
If he has the right to deny service. Guess what. Arby's does not have the legal authority to fire him. None. That's what the statement means. He has the right the authorization from Arby's to deny service to the officer.
No. He doesn't. Arby's says No. He don't have our authority to deny service to that person. No sir.
You say, by his own standard he does. If you conclude that, it still doesn't hold up.
He's not on his own time when he's working. His own standard of right is null and void. It's Arby's time. It's Arby's power and rights that are the standard.
"He has the right to deny service to anyone he wants to." That's not correct. Perhaps not valid. Why? Because "right" is not the fitting word.
He has the power to deny service. But he does not have the right. Arby's doesn't give him the right. God doesn't give him the right.
If he has the right to deny service. Guess what. Arby's does not have the legal authority to fire him. None. That's what the statement means. He has the right the authorization from Arby's to deny service to the officer.
No. He doesn't. Arby's says No. He don't have our authority to deny service to that person. No sir.
You say, by his own standard he does. If you conclude that, it still doesn't hold up.
He's not on his own time when he's working. His own standard of right is null and void. It's Arby's time. It's Arby's power and rights that are the standard.
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N
This post below is off-topic, though I imagined that's where this thread was headed.
Here's the problem I see with this and I don't know how to solve it. Does God allow people to sin? Does He allow us to make our own choices and offer us a way to become more aligned with His will?
Christians have an obligation to uphold the laws of God. Does anyone else? What is the correct way to handle these changes in laws?
Seriously, I don't know how to handle these things. I know they are sinning, but what do I have the right to do about it? Rebuking or walking away seems to be what Jesus did, but I'm not the most knowledgeable Christian. I won't say I am absolutely correct in my knowledge and I know it isn't complete. Seems there are better ways to handle this, but I absolutely see your point. It's the question for the age. How to handle abortions, same-sex marriage and so forth, when having to decide based on Christian values and beliefs.
I don't have the answers, but I will follow this thread. There are many knowledgeable Christians here and I learn many things. Thank you.
Here's the problem I see with this and I don't know how to solve it. Does God allow people to sin? Does He allow us to make our own choices and offer us a way to become more aligned with His will?
Christians have an obligation to uphold the laws of God. Does anyone else? What is the correct way to handle these changes in laws?
Seriously, I don't know how to handle these things. I know they are sinning, but what do I have the right to do about it? Rebuking or walking away seems to be what Jesus did, but I'm not the most knowledgeable Christian. I won't say I am absolutely correct in my knowledge and I know it isn't complete. Seems there are better ways to handle this, but I absolutely see your point. It's the question for the age. How to handle abortions, same-sex marriage and so forth, when having to decide based on Christian values and beliefs.
I don't have the answers, but I will follow this thread. There are many knowledgeable Christians here and I learn many things. Thank you.
If one would contest his right to refuse service they would go to his manager. The manager reaffirmed his right to deny service. To contest the manager one goes to the corporate higher-ups. The corporate higher-ups deny his right, but I would hold he still has the right and therefore as you have said, Arby's should not punish him for he has the right and his highest superior present at the time reaffirmed his right.
Bingo! That's all this is for GIS, rebellion, pure and simple. A cop got dissed and he loves it. The 19 year old Arby's punk does not have a right to deny service to anyone without provocation. What is more accurate is to say the punk has the opportunity to deny service, which he did, but he does not have the right. If he had the right, Arby's brass would not have apologized to the Po-Po like they did. And you know darn well cops will be eating at very discounted prices at Arby's for the unforeseeable future.
G
Okay. But I've not read where you define what you mean by "right". What does that actually mean to you?
The person exercised "his right," but then he was fired.
I have the right to drive a car. But if I don't have insurance or a license, I no longer have the right.
I have the power to drive the car, but not the right to.
The person exercised "his right," but then he was fired.
I have the right to drive a car. But if I don't have insurance or a license, I no longer have the right.
I have the power to drive the car, but not the right to.
Romans 13:1-14
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God.
[SUP]2 [/SUP] Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] For he is God's minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God's minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] Therefore you must be subject, not only because of wrath but also for conscience' sake.
[SUP]6 [/SUP] For because of this you also pay taxes, for they are God's ministers attending continually to this very thing.
[SUP]7 [/SUP] Render therefore to all their due: taxes to whom taxes are due, customs to whom customs, fear to whom fear, honor to whom honor.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law.
[SUP]9 [/SUP] For the commandments, "You shall not commit adultery," "You shall not murder," "You shall not steal," "You shall not bear false witness," "You shall not covet," and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself."
[SUP]10 [/SUP] Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] And do this, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep; for now our salvation is nearer than when we first believed.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] The night is far spent, the day is at hand. Therefore let us cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armor of light.
[SUP]13 [/SUP] Let us walk properly, as in the day, not in revelry and drunkenness, not in lewdness and lust, not in strife and envy.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to fulfill its lusts.
Read Romans chapter 13. This should help clear up any confusion as to what we are to do. And if you still are confused, reread Romans Chapter 13 again.
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God.
[SUP]2 [/SUP] Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] For he is God's minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God's minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] Therefore you must be subject, not only because of wrath but also for conscience' sake.
[SUP]6 [/SUP] For because of this you also pay taxes, for they are God's ministers attending continually to this very thing.
[SUP]7 [/SUP] Render therefore to all their due: taxes to whom taxes are due, customs to whom customs, fear to whom fear, honor to whom honor.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law.
[SUP]9 [/SUP] For the commandments, "You shall not commit adultery," "You shall not murder," "You shall not steal," "You shall not bear false witness," "You shall not covet," and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself."
[SUP]10 [/SUP] Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] And do this, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep; for now our salvation is nearer than when we first believed.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] The night is far spent, the day is at hand. Therefore let us cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armor of light.
[SUP]13 [/SUP] Let us walk properly, as in the day, not in revelry and drunkenness, not in lewdness and lust, not in strife and envy.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to fulfill its lusts.
Read Romans chapter 13. This should help clear up any confusion as to what we are to do. And if you still are confused, reread Romans Chapter 13 again.