PROPHETS: A BIBLICAL PERSPECTIVE

[ember]

Some days ago I posted a passage of scripture from the OT that denounced false prophets and advised the reader that even if someone calls themself a prophet, it does not mean they are a prophet. God plainly denounces false prophesy in fact, He denounces all things false.

My post was not at all well received even though I only meant to offer a balance as scripture indicates such and Paul's letter to the Corinthian church is evidence that balance and order is required and without it, people begin to operate in their flesh as the flesh exalts in being noticed and in having power.

I was not entirely surprised by the comments following my post as I already had an eye on what to expect...not because I am a prophet or claim to be one, but because I am very observant, have considerable experience and I rely on scripture, the words of God already given and the Holy Spirit...who still speaks today both through scripture and into our spirits...from God (not advocating adding to the Bible...I am an advocate for holding fast that which is good and using both God given discernment and my natural gift for being able to discern, as much as God allows or I avail myself of)

I do believe in the gifts of the Spirit but I am very conservative in my approach and it is not my understanding that anyone is above another because they call themself a prophet nor, for that matter, even if they actually are a prophet! I have been troubled over recent events in these forums with members referring to themselves as prophets and assuming some type of authority over others here.

Keep in mind this is a public forum. Anyone can say anything, but, what does the word of God say? why are some so eager to follow others who appear to have some sort of spiritual cloak ... as though they want to touch it...why are there lineups in some churches gathered at the front, waiting for one individual to 'give them a word from God?'

This is not a biblical model and amounts to fortune telling, not a word from God.

Here are some things to think about:

1. Someone who is quick to condemn and offers a critical spirit, is NOT a prophet. Certain people too often think or believe they know what is right or wrong and seem to get the idea they can condemn, curse, mock and create an atmosphere of fear wherein a person will be afraid to speak up because of the fallout from the so called prophet that will ensue.

2. The danger of self promotion. In any office, there is the danger of self promotion. That is one reason we have those lineups in church with gullible people hoping to hear a word from God from a person who is actually acting as a fortune teller rather than a true prophet.

One method such a person will use, is to tell others that they cannot and must not be questionned because, after all, they are a prophet and God is in charge and you are not.


Whatever the case, whenever a person claims to be speaking for God (the essence of prophecy) the key is to compare what is said with what the Bible says. If God were to speak through a person today, it would be in 100% complete agreement with what God has already said in the Bible. God does not contradict Himself. 1 John 4:1 instructs us, “Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.” 1 Thessalonians 5:20-21 declares, “Do not treat prophecies with contempt. Test everything. Hold on to the good.” So, whether is it a “word from the Lord” or a supposed prophecy, our response should be the same. Compare what is said to what the Word of God says. If it contradicts the Bible, throw it out. If it agrees with the Bible, pray for wisdom and discernment as to how to apply the message (2 Timothy 3:16-17; James 1:5).


When someone calling themself a prophet, or someone who is actually acknowledged as a prophet, speaks in a congregation, the words are to be JUDGED...that, would certainly be the right path to follow on a forum...although personally, I fail to see the import of someone calling themself a prophet here as this is a public forum and how are we supposed to know if they are or not?

We have no life to see...no fruit to see...only words and we are being told not to judge those words which goes against the instructions in scripture!

Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others pass judgment. I Corinthians 14:29

It seems, reading the entire passage and keeping the above in context (keeping also in mind that this follows instruction on how to operate in the gift of tongues) that this judgement is reserved for other prophets, those with discernment and those who are well versed in scripture.

Do not be bullied by those who threaten, curse or intimidate you...in ANY setting!

Now, if anyone calling themself a prophet objects to this thread, I would note that person and be careful of their words.

Notice I have not spoken against the gifts nor have I undermined scripture in any way but rather I have explained a little of what scripture states both for those who operate in such a way they believe they hear from God and for those who may be overwhelmed by the gift of prophecy and believe such a person has authority over them

A prophet does not have authority over anyone! Judge...be a Berean...let God's words stand and all others fall.


Understand that God is not mocked nor is He amused by people putting words in His mouth. It's serious business folks and the last thing that should happen, is that a 'prophet' would argue against caution when one of the things an actual prophet does is warn and caution.

 

[jb]

A BIBLICAL PERSPECTIVE

You can find an indepth study Here (section 3b) on the ministry of a prophet (and the other ministeries that Christ has set in the Church. Eph 4v7-16)...

Yahweh Shalom

 

[mpaper345]

A lot of times some people that would refer to them self as a prophet,usually come across that they are better than other saints,and look to them self as something special,which I even heard one man say,that he is the co-prophet of the end time,and the third angel of the apocalyse,and another say he is one of the two witnesses in Revelation,and another that he is one of the 144,000 people.

I have sent also unto you all my servants the prophets,rising up early,and sending them, saying, Return ye now every man from his evil way, and amend your doings, and go not after other gods to serve them, and ye shall dwell in the land which I have given to you and to your fathers: but ye have not inclined your ear, nor hearkened unto me(Jeremiah 35:15).

It would seem like all the saints would be like an Old Testament prophet,because like the prophets back then,they warned Israel to turn from their evil ways,or trouble would come upon them,and the saints are telling the world turn from your evil ways,or trouble will come upon you,which God allows all saints to know the same thing concerning the Bible,prophesy.

The prophets in the New Testament might spend more time understanding the prophesy of the Bible,or they foretell events not covered in the Bible ,or what God wants the people to do,or work in such an area,which this latter part seems like it would be,for I look at all the saints as prophets,for we all tell of the coming beast kingdom,and warn the world to turn from their evil ways,and the Bible says that the testimony of Jesus is prophesy,and this is for all saints to understand and know,which God said blessed is he that reads,and understands prophesy,and keeps those things written therein.

I believe that prophets that God has given us might be that they foretell events not covered in the Bible,for the prophesy in the Bible is not hidden,and there for all the saints to understand just as equally.

 

[Blain]

Just as anyone can claim to be a Christian and not really be one anyone these days can easily claim to be a prophet. I wonder what ppl imagine a prophet to look like? I have seen some on t.v. who either are so called prophets or are big time pastors, many are dressed flashy and often times say what ppl want to hear. This is not always the case but it is a popular view of them because they are everywhere, honestly I prefer Jesus's method where you wouldn't even know he was a king by looking at him.

If anyone is a true prophet they will not glorify themselves in fact they will make it a point make themselves less and less and make God more and more

 

[ember]

well, you know, it seems rumors abound, which is why I thought it would be refreshing to actually look at the Bible and why we need to judge and why we need to exercise caution

not really asking what a prophet is...and there is no point to giving an opinion as it seems threads along those lines are flashing red in this section of the forum

I gave biblical support for what I wrote...the Bible is a cautionary manual and not just a go ahead at full speed in whatever gift it is you think you are operating in...balances and checks are set in place to confirm or deny what someone...anyone really, can claim and I would not hesitate to say that I believe the urgency of understanding deception is more than a little important

You can find an indepth study Here (section 3b) on the ministry of a prophet (and the other ministeries that Christ has set in the Church. Eph 4v7-16)...

Yahweh Shalom

Thanks for that...but I am not familar with that sight and so I would hesitate to state that I am in concurence with all it contains

I will note though, that the truth we seek and need to know is for ALL times and has not changed from the beginning until now

Please do not think that this is a dismissal of your link...it is not...but I think it would be nice to have discussion centered around the Bible and not necessairly what kind of looks like an all encompassing manual written from one person's perspective...

It seems the link actually indicates a particular support for two different men, so again, I think some Bible investigation of our own would be timely

 

[crossnote]

It's not what a prophet looks like. Period. They come in all sizes shapes and costumes...it's what he says. ..

Deuteronomy 18:20-22 (KJV)
20 But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die.
21 And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken?
22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.

 

[ember]

It's not what a prophet looks like. Period. They come in all sizes shapes and costumes...it's what he says. ..

well that's addressing one of the biggest problems regarding how to identify a false prophet and to know you are hearing from a real prophet

the diagnosis is not subjective but that is what we see most of the time

the primary purpose of a prophet in the OT was to call people to turn away from sin, so if we now have the Holy Spirit indwelling us as believers, what is the NT definition of a prophet?

*tongues, then, are a sign, not for believers but for unbelievers; prophecy, however, is not for unbelievers but for believers. 23So if the whole church comes together and everyone speaks in tongues, and inquirers or unbelievers come in, will they not say that you are out of your mind? 24But if an unbeliever or an inquirer comes in while everyone is prophesying, they are convicted of sin and are brought under judgment by all, 25as the secrets of their hearts are laid bare. So they will fall down and worship God, exclaiming, “God is really among you!”

so there really is nothing in there about self grandiosement or having a position above everyone else

it also becomes obvious that there is more than one way for this gift to be utilized

warnings against false prophets are numerous in the NT so you can also conclude there is nothing new there either...as with the old...false is rampant

So called prophets can actually prophesy, perform miracles and even cast out demons...Matthew 7

15“Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.True and False Disciples

21“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’
however, try and tell someone that the prophet they are listening to is false or the person they love to listen to is preaching a doctrine of demons....that will spoil all the fun

it seems more go by their emotions when it comes to discernment or judging and so we end up with prophets who spoil the flock, warn people not to listen to others...that only they have the truth, fleece the sheep and generally amaze people with itching ears with their big words and showtime performances

false prophets and teachers also do not care for authority...if they themself do not have a position of authority they can usually be found trying to discredit the legitimate Christian leaders. These are the ones who won't answer to anyone...they have an independent spirit and not a compatible spirit with those who desire to do God's will.

Many, have turned aside to follow after those who profess to be a prophet. There is no accountability and the end result is a falling away from the truth and worshipping what you see in front of you and not God

Not a very popular topic....so much more fun to just throw it all in the air and feel good.

It's not about feelings...it's about truth. You get to choose...but do your homework first.


* Paul is correcting the misuse of tongues in the church...there is more than one biblical useage of tongues
in this instance, he is speaking of what is done publicly in church

 

[Angela53510]

I used to be in a church that claimed the lead pastors and their associates in other countries were prophets. They were very godly men, I can't deny. They had awesome ministries. But were they prophets? I guess when they were preaching the Word they were. But as far as starting new movements, which is what was claimed as the definition of a prophet, I don't think so.

I was in a Baptist church about 10 years ago, where the pastor was a petty dictator. He micro-managed everything, dumped stuff on people he didn't want to do, and got totally away from the Bible in his preaching. He would not accept correction, and no elders.

One day I was talking to him about the gifts of the Spirit, and he said, "I am a prophet of God." I was a bit taken aback. He didn't mean it in the sense of speaking forth the Word, he meant it in the Old Testament sense of being specially called by God, and above the rest of us. (OK, that is NOT Biblical) His preaching was so off, I don't know how he couldn't see it. He just was not preaching a single thing from the Bible!

He tore the church apart with his arrogance. I don't know if the word "humble" was even in his vocabulary. So this concept of modern day prophets seems to be rampant everywhere.

In fact, I decided just to stick to the Bible prophets, as far as being "called." Twice bitten three times shy!

 

[dcontroversal]

Jesus said it best.....a warning on those who would add to or take away from the words of His prophecy.....We have all that we need in the bible and more than enough revealed to keep the most avid student of the bible busy for their entire lifetime to only stand before God and learn about all that they missed in the bible....

 

[dcontroversal]

I used to be in a church that claimed the lead pastors and their associates in other countries were prophets. They were very godly men, I can't deny. They had awesome ministries. But were they prophets? I guess when they were preaching the Word they were. But as far as starting new movements, which is what was claimed as the definition of a prophet, I don't think so.

I was in a Baptist church about 10 years ago, where the pastor was a petty dictator. He micro-managed everything, dumped stuff on people he didn't want to do, and got totally away from the Bible in his preaching. He would not accept correction, and no elders.

One day I was talking to him about the gifts of the Spirit, and he said, "I am a prophet of God." I was a bit taken aback. He didn't mean it in the sense of speaking forth the Word, he meant it in the Old Testament sense of being specially called by God, and above the rest of us. (OK, that is NOT Biblical) His preaching was so off, I don't know how he couldn't see it. He just was not preaching a single thing from the Bible!

He tore the church apart with his arrogance. I don't know if the word "humble" was even in his vocabulary. So this concept of modern day prophets seems to be rampant everywhere.

In fact, I decided just to stick to the Bible prophets, as far as being "called." Twice bitten three times shy!

Sounds like an Independent Baptist preacher and a legalistic church to me.........can you imagine the boldness and audacity to make such a claim!

 

[GodIsSalvation]

It would seem to me from 1 Corinthians 14 that anyone can prophesy, and Paul even seems to encourage us to endeavor towards this gift. Whether that makes one a prophet proper though I suppose is the real question.

I was wondering this question in the other prophet topic when I asked; if the spirit of prophecy is the testimony of Jesus; then simply isn't anyone that testifies to the verity of Jesus and the Gospel a prophet?

 

[ember]

Angela53510;2274779]I used to be in a church that claimed the lead pastors and their associates in other countries were prophets. They were very godly men, I can't deny. They had awesome ministries. But were they prophets? I guess when they were preaching the Word they were. But as far as starting new movements, which is what was claimed as the definition of a prophet, I don't think so.

yeah I don't either (of course not)....but I would be leery....I don't know why so many are keen to be prophets...guess they don't think God will ask them to marry a whore who keeps returning to other men haha with God telling them they still have to love her and be faithful to her irregardless of her faithlessness, plus you get to have 2 sons with her too! now there's a calling! ...picture of God a feckless Israel of course but still valid as thousands of modern day Christians are attracted to darkness masquerading as light

as far as new movements go, I would have to say no...I think we have all we need already revealed...as dc says in his post, we have more than enough...but you see (and I guess you know this) it is plow work and not exciting and thrilling to study...well for some it's exciting...as you discover the truth and God lights it up in your spirit! Personally, I love that! I think you do too!


I was in a Baptist church about 10 years ago, where the pastor was a petty dictator. He micro-managed everything, dumped stuff on people he didn't want to do, and got totally away from the Bible in his preaching. He would not accept correction, and no elders.

One day I was talking to him about the gifts of the Spirit, and he said, "I am a prophet of God." I was a bit taken aback. He didn't mean it in the sense of speaking forth the Word, he meant it in the Old Testament sense of being specially called by God, and above the rest of us. (OK, that is NOT Biblical) His preaching was so off, I don't know how he couldn't see it. He just was not preaching a single thing from the Bible!

I think quite a few of these types of people start out on the right foot, become big headed and veer off on another path...the devil comes as an angel of light...he has 3 basic weapons against Christians...he tempts, he accuses and the most effective and hardest tool to discern, is deception

we are warned to be aware of deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons...yet many Christians seem to think the devil is out of the scene once you become a Christian

I'm not trying to major in the negative here...far from it...but how dumb are those who refuse instruction and run all over the place to 'hear' the latest word, or get plugged into the latest book which promises to make everything clear. or get hung up on all this end of the world prophecy or personal prophecy which is my particular axe to grind...Christian fortune telling

He tore the church apart with his arrogance. I don't know if the word "humble" was even in his vocabulary. So this concept of modern day prophets seems to be rampant everywhere.

In fact, I decided just to stick to the Bible prophets, as far as being "called." Twice bitten three times shy!

And who can blame you! it is arrogance to overlook what scripture states and believe anyone who appears and states 'I am a prophet'...the emphasis should never be on a gift...I am glad I have a very conservative background...I came by what I know and believe honestly and not at the persuasion of those who thought I was missing out or laid hands on me or told me how to receive...I might be rejecting everything if it had happened that way...on the other hand, I might be accepting everything and blindly following into the net and into the pit

This free for all atmosphere and gifts galore to be had and just go ahead and practice until you know which is yours is putting aside all counter measures for deception that the Bible goes to great lengths to give us

It's never changed...you still have to dig for the gold...you still have to seek for God with your whole heart!

the other very sad and dangerous fact is that ignorance isn't protection against the devils wiles and neither is motive...you can mean well and you can hope well and still be deceived and lead others into deception as well

 

[ember]

It would seem to me from 1 Corinthians 14 that anyone can prophesy, and Paul even seems to encourage us to endeavor towards this gift. Whether that makes one a prophet proper though I suppose is the real question.

I was wondering this question in the other prophet topic when I asked; if the spirit of prophecy is the testimony of Jesus; then simply isn't anyone that testifies to the verity of Jesus and the Gospel a prophet?

good question!!

the gifts are basically what God gives through His Spirit...in other words, He CALLS someone to do what they do in His name!

they are not hirleings or pastor for hire (I'm not saying a pastor should not be paid...the workman is worthy of his hire) and they are not false telling people what makes them popular...

so if God gives the gift of teacher through His Spirit, then that person will be called of God to be that teacher of the word and the impact will be through God's spirt...we cannot take credit for what God does in or through us...we can only say yes and make ourselves available

prophet in the NT is one who declares the word through the power of the Holy Spirit...people confuse this with OT prophets ...I don't believe the emphasis is on future events at all...I believe the word of knowledge (which is also a gift) functions many times to fill in the gaps in a person's understanding...where someone will have knowledge or understanding that God makes clear by His Spirit....supposed prophets misuse the gift when they try to prophesy over people ...supposedly telling them what God has for them or what their future will be

it's just simply NOT God!...

then simply isn't anyone that testifies to the verity of Jesus and the Gospel a prophet?

I am not sure that qualification would fit as it would seem to me that the calling of prophet would be ongoing...of that makes sense?

again, prophet here meaning to expound on the word by the Holy Spirit...in other words, not just head knowledge, but with the unction of the Holy Spirit that goes right into a person and convicts them of the truth of the words...as Paul states to the Corinthian church as I posted above:

*tongues, then, are a sign, not for believers but for unbelievers; prophecy, however, is not for unbelievers but for believers. 23So if the whole church comes together and everyone speaks in tongues, and inquirers or unbelievers come in, will they not say that you are out of your mind?

24But if an unbeliever or an inquirer comes inwhile everyone is prophesying, they are convicted of sin and are brought under judgment by all, 25as the secrets of their hearts are laid bare. So they will fall down and worship God, exclaiming, “God is really among you!”

I might be wrong, but it seems to me that everyone prophesying does not necessairly mean that everyone is a prophet?

certainly open for discussion here...with scripture...again, good question!!

 

[convallaria]

You can find an indepth study Here (section 3b) on the ministry of a prophet (and the other ministeries that Christ has set in the Church. Eph 4v7-16)...

Yahweh Shalom

Very good piece of writing, especially what is said on the prophetic: thank you.

 

[GodIsSalvation]

*tongues, then, are a sign, not for believers but for unbelievers; prophecy, however, is not for unbelievers but for believers. 23So if the whole church comes together and everyone speaks in tongues, and inquirers or unbelievers come in, will they not say that you are out of your mind?

24But if an unbeliever or an inquirer comes inwhile everyone is prophesying, they are convicted of sin and are brought under judgment by all, 25as the secrets of their hearts are laid bare. So they will fall down and worship God, exclaiming, “God is really among you!”

I might be wrong, but it seems to me that everyone prophesying does not necessairly mean that everyone is a prophet?

certainly open for discussion here...with scripture...again, good question!!

That's pretty much where I am wondering with my question. To put it another way, is prophet like a stratified and distinct office, or is it more like a gift that any Christian can utilize? I am not too sure on the answer, though I kind of lean more towards what you conclude here that there may be distinct prophets that go about specific prophetic tasks (such as the OT prophets), and at the same time everyone can prophesy, as it is the spirit of prophesy is the testimony of Jesus.

I'm not settled though on the conclusion, but it is worth studying I believe. I like your answers.

 

[crossnote]

Jesus said it best.....a warning on those who would add to or take away from the words of His prophecy.....We have all that we need in the bible and more than enough revealed to keep the most avid student of the bible busy for their entire lifetime to only stand before God and learn about all that they missed in the bible....

Good point. Half the so called prophets running around the landscape hardly know the prophecies our Lord Himself spoke.

 

[dcontroversal]

Good point. Half the so called prophets running around the landscape hardly know the prophecies our Lord Himself spoke.

I agree for sure.....like the bible states...we have the mind of Christ (the bible)....not the partial mind of Christ.....we have all we need in the bible...there is no need for new revelations........

 

[crossnote]

It would seem to me from 1 Corinthians 14 that anyone can prophesy, and Paul even seems to encourage us to endeavor towards this gift. Whether that makes one a prophet proper though I suppose is the real question.

I was wondering this question in the other prophet topic when I asked; if the spirit of prophecy is the testimohny of Jesus; then simply isn't anyone that testifies to the verity of Jesus and the Gospel a prophet?

True definitions are critical. My idea of a prophet is more in the OT Jewish sense, that whenever they utter "Thus saith the Lord", it had better come true or they are false prophets, and their words are as good as Scripture.

 

[Angela53510]

Sounds like an Independent Baptist preacher and a legalistic church to me.........can you imagine the boldness and audacity to make such a claim!

Actually, it was a Southern Baptist pastor. The convention had lots of resources to help pastors in trouble, but he was in complete denial there was a problem. When half the church left, he said it was "our" problem, not his. And he kept preaching from books, instead of the Bible. It was an obsession.

The sad thing is that he was actually an awesome preacher in the first few years I was there. He had a bad accident when he got thrown from a horse and snapped his ankle - badly! He was never quite the same after that. I have to wonder if maybe he hit his head, but with the broken leg, the head was never looked at??

Admitting the problem is the first step. If you can't do that, there is no hope!

 

[GodIsSalvation]

True definitions are critical. My idea of a prophet is more in the OT Jewish sense, that whenever they utter "Thus saith the Lord", it had better come true or they are false prophets, and their words are as good as Scripture.

Aye that's a good point, but not all the prophesies in the OT or NT start that way, but are viewed as foreshadows of the coming of Jesus. Like for instance the Bible clearly says Abel is a prophet, yet it is not recorded anywhere that Abel says any thing. It would seem to me just by Abel being a shepherd and being innocent yet slain by Cain, that seems to me a prophecy of Jesus.

Also to note on what dcon has said. I agree, I don't think there are any new revelations, but there still are prophets. One doesn't need a new revelation to be a prophet. Wouldn't they merely have to testify to that which is all ready revealed, namely the testimony of Jesus? In fact most the prophets in the OT and NT are pretty much saying and testifying to the same things which were revealed to them, supporting one another's words as veritable.