Share random advice about dating
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1. There is no such thing as "Mr. Right."
2. God is not obliged to be your matchmaker while you sit at home and...eat bonbons, give out free advice on the internet, imply that all people create relationships one way, etc.
3. The whole "courting" thing was basically invented by Christians in the late 90s/early 2000s. "Courting" (as these groups define it) never existed in the bible, nor did it exist in any significant way in Western culture.
2. God is not obliged to be your matchmaker while you sit at home and...eat bonbons, give out free advice on the internet, imply that all people create relationships one way, etc.
3. The whole "courting" thing was basically invented by Christians in the late 90s/early 2000s. "Courting" (as these groups define it) never existed in the bible, nor did it exist in any significant way in Western culture.
First of all, I challenge you (and anyone else) to find and post the bible verse that says that there is ONE PERSON that we are destined to marry. (Hint: It doesn't exist...but go for it anyway).
And I don't get why people insist that there is ONE WAY of meeting and marrying another person. Just do a survey of the Christians you know who are married. Here's what you'll find:
Some of them DATED and found their spouse.
Some of them COURTED and found their spouse.
Some of them had their marriages ARRANGED and now have a spouse.
Some of them were OVERTLY LOOKING for a spouse.
Some of them had STOPPED LOOKING for a spouse.
Some of them met in CHURCH.
Some of them met OUTSIDE of CHURCH.
Some of them met through FRIENDS.
Some of them met through WORK.
Some of them met through the INTERNET.
Some of them TOOK A LONG TIME to build a relationship before they married.
Some of them TOOK A SHORT TIME to build a relationship before they married.
Some of them were CHRISTIANS before they married.
Some of them were NOT CHRISTIANS before they married.
Get it? God created over 8 billion DIFFERENT PEOPLE on the planet. It's completely illogical that he would have one way for them all to find a mate/marry. There is ZERO BIBLICAL EVIDENCE for that viewpoint. Additionally, there is ZERO PRACTICAL EVIDENCE for that viewpoint. People adopt personal philosophies regarding love and marriage (i.e. "everyone has a soulmate") and then they blend it with their ideas of God and call it "biblical."
And I don't get why people insist that there is ONE WAY of meeting and marrying another person. Just do a survey of the Christians you know who are married. Here's what you'll find:
Some of them DATED and found their spouse.
Some of them COURTED and found their spouse.
Some of them had their marriages ARRANGED and now have a spouse.
Some of them were OVERTLY LOOKING for a spouse.
Some of them had STOPPED LOOKING for a spouse.
Some of them met in CHURCH.
Some of them met OUTSIDE of CHURCH.
Some of them met through FRIENDS.
Some of them met through WORK.
Some of them met through the INTERNET.
Some of them TOOK A LONG TIME to build a relationship before they married.
Some of them TOOK A SHORT TIME to build a relationship before they married.
Some of them were CHRISTIANS before they married.
Some of them were NOT CHRISTIANS before they married.
Get it? God created over 8 billion DIFFERENT PEOPLE on the planet. It's completely illogical that he would have one way for them all to find a mate/marry. There is ZERO BIBLICAL EVIDENCE for that viewpoint. Additionally, there is ZERO PRACTICAL EVIDENCE for that viewpoint. People adopt personal philosophies regarding love and marriage (i.e. "everyone has a soulmate") and then they blend it with their ideas of God and call it "biblical."
A
I hope you didn't over-analyze what I posted. Just because I said there is a Mr. Right - someone who's right for you - does not mean that, "there is ONE PERSON that we are destined to marry."
Also, if you think that asking God to give you the right person to marry, is only one way that works for some, and doesn't work for others, then, that's sad but I respect that and have nothing else to add.
Also, if you think that asking God to give you the right person to marry, is only one way that works for some, and doesn't work for others, then, that's sad but I respect that and have nothing else to add.
Is there a Mr./Mrs. Right?
Maybe this argument about "Mr. Right" is more about semantics than doctrine.
Maybe if we'd redefine some things, there wouldn't be any argument.
I think that when we say "Mr. Right" we're probably talking about 2 different things.
I think we're arguing about the issue of "compatibility" versus "God directing us".
This isn't a matter of Either/Or.
I think that we see both of these occurring.
Compatibility:
1. We probably CAN be compatible with many, many people.
There are probably LOTS of people who would seem like a really GOOD FIT for us.
There are probably lots of people we could really love, and appreciate, and enjoy spending our lives with.
Direction:
2. However, God certainly DOES lead and direct us... and although we may be compatible with MANY people, God does not direct us to ALL OF THOSE PEOPLE. God moves in our life to direct us to a PARTICULAR person. He directs us to a PARTICULAR person that HE believes is best for us.
Maybe this argument about "Mr. Right" is more about semantics than doctrine.
Maybe if we'd redefine some things, there wouldn't be any argument.
I think that when we say "Mr. Right" we're probably talking about 2 different things.
I think we're arguing about the issue of "compatibility" versus "God directing us".
This isn't a matter of Either/Or.
I think that we see both of these occurring.
Compatibility:
1. We probably CAN be compatible with many, many people.
There are probably LOTS of people who would seem like a really GOOD FIT for us.
There are probably lots of people we could really love, and appreciate, and enjoy spending our lives with.
Direction:
2. However, God certainly DOES lead and direct us... and although we may be compatible with MANY people, God does not direct us to ALL OF THOSE PEOPLE. God moves in our life to direct us to a PARTICULAR person. He directs us to a PARTICULAR person that HE believes is best for us.
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I think even the idea that God directs us to a particular person is based on an underlying philosophy that isn't necessarily reflected in the bible. For example, God didn't "direct" Leah to Jacob, nor did he direct Jacob to Leah. Their marriage was a result of the trickery of his father-in-law. However, God clearly did direct Hosea to marry the prostitute Homer. So, it seems that in some cases a marriage happens that God does not direct, and in others a marriage results from a particular direction from God. I think it's likely that some people are specifically directed by God to marry a particular person. Other people use the free choice given to them by God and choose amongst all those with whom they are naturally compatible. In other words, THERE IS NO FORMULA. (Which was my initial argument).
U
This is the same thinking I relay often, but am typically met with a fervent disagreement. People Want to believe God makes one person for another (as opposed to making us for fellowship with Him), and will misuse scripture to 'prove' it. Bottom line, it's what people want to believe so that's what they choose to believe. Facts are not necessary to support it.
M
As much as I like Disney movies, I blame them for this kind of thinking. I used to think like this all the time but one day as I was reading the Word I thought to myself "I may never get married, even though I want to get married." Marriage is not a right and we are not entitled to a spouse. A spouse is a blessing and so is singleness. Either way we are to fellowship with Him, like Ugly says. Our duty as Christians is to glorify Him and have a relationship with Him.
Basically hope for a spouse, but don't expect to get one. Especially nowadays where there aren't that many Christians left. And I mean real Christians not lukewarm ones that sleep around and get wasted every weekend.
Basically hope for a spouse, but don't expect to get one. Especially nowadays where there aren't that many Christians left. And I mean real Christians not lukewarm ones that sleep around and get wasted every weekend.
EXACTLY! The idea that God has "one person planned for you" is both modern and media-driven. One hundred years ago, Christians did NOT believe this.
And this underlying (unexamined) idea creates all kinds of problems for Christians. They believe that God is some kind of cosmic Santa who is obliged to give them a spouse if they fulfill the right requirements. OR They are constantly striving and second-guessing because they think they don't have a spouse because they haven't yet met the right requirements. OR They think the spouse they have is a mistake because it wasn't "the one" God had chosen for them. ETC, ad nauseum.
Studies show that people get married when they decide it's time to get married...not when they meet "the one." In other words, people make a choice: "I'm ready for marriage." Their choice allows their eyes to be open to find a suitable person: "This one is compatible with me and my life." And they reframe it to create a romantic, culturally acceptable story: "I hadn't checked my Facebook in months. One day I got on and saw a message from Soandso on my newsfeed. I couldn't help but respond. We started talking, and decided to go out for coffee..."
If the poor only had a dollar for every person that someone claimed was "The One for them from God" we probably could end world hunger.
And this underlying (unexamined) idea creates all kinds of problems for Christians. They believe that God is some kind of cosmic Santa who is obliged to give them a spouse if they fulfill the right requirements. OR They are constantly striving and second-guessing because they think they don't have a spouse because they haven't yet met the right requirements. OR They think the spouse they have is a mistake because it wasn't "the one" God had chosen for them. ETC, ad nauseum.
Studies show that people get married when they decide it's time to get married...not when they meet "the one." In other words, people make a choice: "I'm ready for marriage." Their choice allows their eyes to be open to find a suitable person: "This one is compatible with me and my life." And they reframe it to create a romantic, culturally acceptable story: "I hadn't checked my Facebook in months. One day I got on and saw a message from Soandso on my newsfeed. I couldn't help but respond. We started talking, and decided to go out for coffee..."
If the poor only had a dollar for every person that someone claimed was "The One for them from God" we probably could end world hunger.
Mr. Right?
I think what we need at this point is an entire discussion about how God's sovereignty intersects with man's free will.
That seems to be the real issue.
I have to admit, I do find it odd that people believe God leads them in a career, or leads them as they change locations, or leads them as they buy a house, or leads them as they pray for a new job, or leads them in a million other things... but they can't imagine God is capable of leading them to a spouse.
How odd.
I think what we need at this point is an entire discussion about how God's sovereignty intersects with man's free will.
That seems to be the real issue.
I have to admit, I do find it odd that people believe God leads them in a career, or leads them as they change locations, or leads them as they buy a house, or leads them as they pray for a new job, or leads them in a million other things... but they can't imagine God is capable of leading them to a spouse.
How odd.
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Does he do ANYTHING?
When we need his direction, his help, his leading in other areas... do we pray?
Don't we ask him to direct us, and lead us, for OTHER THINGS?
Well... does he?
Does he direct us and lead us when we pray?
Does he direct us when we seek his will, and submit to his will?
Does he?
I think that IN ALL THINGS, it's a matter of seeking his will, the SUBMITTING to his will.
If you pray once for a Godly man, then run off with the first drunk you meet instead of waiting... well... that isn't really submitting to God's direction is it?
Biblically, IN ALL THINGS, God seems to direct us TO WHATEVER DEGREE WE SEEK HIM & SUBMIT TO HIS WILL.
Will God allow you to run off with an idiot?
Yes, if that's what you're determined to do.
But if we submit to his will, then he directs us... in all areas.
A spouse is just one area in which he will direct us if we seek his will... it's no different than any other area.
When we need his direction, his help, his leading in other areas... do we pray?
Don't we ask him to direct us, and lead us, for OTHER THINGS?
Well... does he?
Does he direct us and lead us when we pray?
Does he direct us when we seek his will, and submit to his will?
Does he?
I think that IN ALL THINGS, it's a matter of seeking his will, the SUBMITTING to his will.
If you pray once for a Godly man, then run off with the first drunk you meet instead of waiting... well... that isn't really submitting to God's direction is it?
Biblically, IN ALL THINGS, God seems to direct us TO WHATEVER DEGREE WE SEEK HIM & SUBMIT TO HIS WILL.
Will God allow you to run off with an idiot?
Yes, if that's what you're determined to do.
But if we submit to his will, then he directs us... in all areas.
A spouse is just one area in which he will direct us if we seek his will... it's no different than any other area.
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M
Right, but what I'm saying is that we shouldn't focus so much on expecting a good person to just drop onto our laps and marry us. Yes, we do pray and ask for his will to be done but we live in a sinful world where unfortunately people don't listen to God 24/7. I'm not going to run off with a drunk man. I've been praying for a good man for a long time and it just hasn't happened yet. What if the one God had for me ran off the the drunk woman?
I don't think it does me any good to get my hopes up because I know how men are, how women are and how the world is. I have been praying for a good guy for over 10 years and it's slowly making me realize how hard that is to find. I think I've already accepted that I may never get married. But that's fine. I don't want to pray to God, expecting a spouse. That's like using God for what I want and I wouldn't feel right with that. I am submitting to his will by waiting and not giving in to desire for companionship with just anyone.
Now just because I have submitted to his will, doesn't mean I am entitled to a spouse. It may never happen and I've come to terms with that.
I don't think it does me any good to get my hopes up because I know how men are, how women are and how the world is. I have been praying for a good guy for over 10 years and it's slowly making me realize how hard that is to find. I think I've already accepted that I may never get married. But that's fine. I don't want to pray to God, expecting a spouse. That's like using God for what I want and I wouldn't feel right with that. I am submitting to his will by waiting and not giving in to desire for companionship with just anyone.
Now just because I have submitted to his will, doesn't mean I am entitled to a spouse. It may never happen and I've come to terms with that.
S
Molly-
You're on the right track with your thinking. As a word of caution, you can go TOO far being very conservative. Marriage is a commitment to work HARD on yourself and for your spouse to do the same. You will both have a lot of changes to make even after you get married. But take it from someone who's walked that road - you do not want to rush that decision. If you see any "red flags" like I did with my ex wife (not wanting Christian friends, avoiding accountability), RUN the other way. Don't ignore them and expect they'll change, because they will only get worse. Ultimately, I lost my wife when she decided to begin a lifestyle of adultery and run off with another man. A painful experience, yes, but one that can be learned from. I was your age when I got married and I wish I would have waited. God expects us to use our judgement (based on His Word) in choosing a spouse. Choose wisely.
You're on the right track with your thinking. As a word of caution, you can go TOO far being very conservative. Marriage is a commitment to work HARD on yourself and for your spouse to do the same. You will both have a lot of changes to make even after you get married. But take it from someone who's walked that road - you do not want to rush that decision. If you see any "red flags" like I did with my ex wife (not wanting Christian friends, avoiding accountability), RUN the other way. Don't ignore them and expect they'll change, because they will only get worse. Ultimately, I lost my wife when she decided to begin a lifestyle of adultery and run off with another man. A painful experience, yes, but one that can be learned from. I was your age when I got married and I wish I would have waited. God expects us to use our judgement (based on His Word) in choosing a spouse. Choose wisely.
Molly,
This might be a shock, but I think I agree with everything you said.
"I don't want to pray to God, expecting a spouse."
I agree completely. We should pray EXPECTING God to do his PERFECT WILL in our lives... whatever that happens to mean.
"I am submitting to his will by waiting and not giving in to desire for companionship with just anyone."
You have my complete respect for that. And I believe that God will honor that. We don't know exactly "how" God will choose to honor that, but we know God ALWAYS blesses us when we're obedient. Always.
"just because I have submitted to his will, doesn't mean I am entitled to a spouse"
I agree.
But the fact that you've submitted to His will means that YOU ARE ALLOWING HIM TO LEAD YOU. So whatever HE thinks is best for you, that's what you're going to get. God is going to lead you to whatever is his best for you.
My whole point about the "Mr. Right" thing wasn't that we should all say our prayers at bedtime, like good little boys and girls, and then God, like Santa, will automatically drop a Prince or Princess onto our doorstep the next morning via UPS.
: )
I only meant that we should deal with THIS ISSUE just like any other issue in life.
We should pray, submit to God's will, and EXPECT that he will lead us to whatever is best for us.
We don't need to despair and feel abandoned, nor do we need to race ahead of God and ignore his direction.
We can submit to his leading, and his direction, and trust him, just like in any other area of life.
This might be a shock, but I think I agree with everything you said.
"I don't want to pray to God, expecting a spouse."
I agree completely. We should pray EXPECTING God to do his PERFECT WILL in our lives... whatever that happens to mean.
"I am submitting to his will by waiting and not giving in to desire for companionship with just anyone."
You have my complete respect for that. And I believe that God will honor that. We don't know exactly "how" God will choose to honor that, but we know God ALWAYS blesses us when we're obedient. Always.
"just because I have submitted to his will, doesn't mean I am entitled to a spouse"
I agree.
But the fact that you've submitted to His will means that YOU ARE ALLOWING HIM TO LEAD YOU. So whatever HE thinks is best for you, that's what you're going to get. God is going to lead you to whatever is his best for you.
My whole point about the "Mr. Right" thing wasn't that we should all say our prayers at bedtime, like good little boys and girls, and then God, like Santa, will automatically drop a Prince or Princess onto our doorstep the next morning via UPS.
: )
I only meant that we should deal with THIS ISSUE just like any other issue in life.
We should pray, submit to God's will, and EXPECT that he will lead us to whatever is best for us.
We don't need to despair and feel abandoned, nor do we need to race ahead of God and ignore his direction.
We can submit to his leading, and his direction, and trust him, just like in any other area of life.
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A
Well I'm starting to get an idea where the underlying issue is coming from. It seems to me that it all comes down to this:
God may or may not have a plan for every person on earth.
I am, and it seems to me that you are too, Mr. Maxwel, are believers that God has a plan for every person. I personally take Jer. 29:11 as one of God's promises. I strongly believe that God has a plan for everyone (Romans 8:28), in every area of our life. And that if we ask Him, He would be willing to show it to us and make it happen. And it would be the perfect path.
I can write so many biblical truths that tell us that God does have a plan for our lives, every one of us. I've always thought this was a fundamental truth.
I would share Charles Stanley's book on this that's really helpful for those who think God left them out in this world to figure life on their own: God has a plan for your life: The discovery that makes all the difference
Anyway, going back to my point.
Now, this does not necessarily mean, God's plan for our individual lives will always happen, because we have free will. And this is where we come. We have a choice to choose what God has prepared for us, or we can live lives our way. We are free people. And here, is where I say dating is a choice.
This was the very reason I advised against dating. Again, dating it's a choice. And if it is, and if the other option is God's perfect will, I find it odd to even choose to date.
God may or may not have a plan for every person on earth.
I am, and it seems to me that you are too, Mr. Maxwel, are believers that God has a plan for every person. I personally take Jer. 29:11 as one of God's promises. I strongly believe that God has a plan for everyone (Romans 8:28), in every area of our life. And that if we ask Him, He would be willing to show it to us and make it happen. And it would be the perfect path.
I can write so many biblical truths that tell us that God does have a plan for our lives, every one of us. I've always thought this was a fundamental truth.
I would share Charles Stanley's book on this that's really helpful for those who think God left them out in this world to figure life on their own: God has a plan for your life: The discovery that makes all the difference
Anyway, going back to my point.
Now, this does not necessarily mean, God's plan for our individual lives will always happen, because we have free will. And this is where we come. We have a choice to choose what God has prepared for us, or we can live lives our way. We are free people. And here, is where I say dating is a choice.
This was the very reason I advised against dating. Again, dating it's a choice. And if it is, and if the other option is God's perfect will, I find it odd to even choose to date.