Is the Devil bound right now...?

[VCO]

The obvious...

The '1 K reign' cannot be a literal future event.

I showed you, IT BEGINS WHEN HIS FEET TOUCH THE MOUNT OF OLIVES on His return, literally splitting it in two, forming a deep Valley, thus it is a LITERAL 1000 Year Kingdom here on earth.

 

[prove-all]

Now the context of the verse about restraining, clearly is talking about not allowing Satan to come to full power as the Antichrist UNTIL the the Holy Spirit is taken out of the way.
.

nothing in that verse or the bible confirms who is doing the restraining,
saying it is the holy spirit is not correct , or proveable .

 

[Bowman]

BOWMAN, restraining IS NOT THE SAME a PHYSICALLY BINDING with a CHAIN and locking Him in an Abyss, not even close. Even a child can figure that one out.

How do you physically bind a spiritual being...?

Like I told you before, YOU CHANGE THE MEANING OF BINDING to make fit what you want to believe.

Binding: is defined as an action or something that ties together, attaches or holds down.
An example of binding is someone being tied to a chair and unable to move; a binding situation.

You don't google a Websters dictionary for a Biblical term, brother....come on, show some respect!

Now the context of the verse about restraining, clearly is talking about not allowing Satan to come to full power as the Antichrist UNTIL the the Holy Spirit is taken out of the way. THAT is NOT the SAME as BINDING HIM, but that chain that the angel brings down from heaven, CERTAINLY will do the job.

2 Thessalonians 2:7 (GW)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] The mystery of this sin is already at work. But it cannot work effectively until the person now holding it back gets out of the way.

That's not what the Greek states.

Study up....

 

[Bowman]

The translators of nearly every Bible Translation UNDERSTOOD this, and that is why they did not trust a single man translating the BIBLE by himself. INSTEAD, they assembled a team of translators, who checked and double checked each others work. THEY PRAYED DAILY TO BE FILLED WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT AS THEY TRANSLATED, and still they checked and double checked each other's work.

You mean that they actually looked to the original languages...something that you are afraid to do, yourself...?

AND here you sit doing your own translating with absolutely NO ONE checking your work, and no input from the Holy Spirit, SPOUTING that all of our Biblical Scholars and all the Translation Teams of the past got it all wrong.

I show my exegesis complete with verifiable references.

You, on the other hand, use someone else's renderings, of which, you CANNOT even begin to defend....nor do you even try...

See the difference...?

 

[popeye]

However I don't see any evidence by you that I am incorrect. What I stated are historical facts. You can check for yourself. You cannot accept them because they deny your whole theory on premillennialism. If it does not exist I don't need to explain it away.

Your assertions are quite empty.

I posted facts. Specific ones. You GENERALIZE and broad-brush every post to avoid the inevitable......and that would be your doctrine busted big time.

But you now know premillinialism doctrine was around when you say it was not.
That makes you a deceiver.

 

[popeye]

If that is so, then why are lions still preying on animals and not hay?

No doubt they have footage of some obscure lions in Africa eating grass.

But then again us deceived ones don't have access to the"special Greek magic texts" that make the 1k into 2k from thin air.

 

[ukok102nak]

2Thes.c2_6
w290ὅτι
w291ἐὰν
w292μὴ
w293ἔλθῃ
w295ἀποστασία
cn sp df ql rl
w294ἡ
w296πρῶτον
2Thes.c2_7
w297καὶ
w298ἀποκαλυφθῇ
w300ἄνθρωπος
cn sp df ql rl
w299ὁ
w302ἀνομίας
cn sp df ql rl
w301τῆς
w304υἱὸς
cn sp df ql rl
w303ὁ
w306ἀπωλείας
cn sp df ql rl
w305τῆς
w308ἀντικείμενος
cn sp df ql rl
w307ὁ
w309καὶ
w310ὑπεραιρόμενος
w312πάντα
cn sp df ql rl
w311ἐπὶ
2Thes.c2_10
w313λεγόμενον
2Thes.c2_9
w314θεὸν
w316σέβασμα
cn sp df ql rl
w315ἢ

LETRA POR LETRA :rofl:
AND WHERE IN THE ANCIENT MANUSCRIPT WE CAN READ THE WORD "YAHWEH"

 

[ukok102nak]

2Thes.c2_6
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that​

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NOT​

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elthῃ​

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Distance​

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or​

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first​

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[TD]w297

and​

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[TD]w298

apokalyfthῇ​

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[TD]w300

people​

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The​

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[TD]w302

lawlessness​

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of​

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[TD]w304

Son​

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The​

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[TD]w306

Loss​

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of​

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[TD]w308

Objects​

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The​

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and​

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[TD]w310

yperairomenos​

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always​

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on​

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words​

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God​

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respected​

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or​

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Again
where in the ancient manuscript of the holy scripture the word "YAHWEH" can be found?

:ty:

 

[valiant]

But then again us deceived ones don't have access to the"special Greek magic texts" that make the 1k into 2k from thin air.

No what you fail to have access to is information concerning the use of numbers in the ancient world where the majority of people could not count beyond twenty, and where large numbers were 'descriptive' rather than literal..

 

[valiant]

WE HOWEVER ACCEPT WHAT THE SCRIPTURES SAY, BELIEVE THEM, AND VALIDATE THEM BY LETTING SCRIPTURE, INTERPRET SCRIPTURE, INSTEAD OF THE HUMAN CARNAL MIND. YOU HOWEVER FIND THES TRUTHS IT TO BE PURE FOOLISHNESS, BECAUSE PROPER INTERPRETATION OF THE SPIRITUAL TRUTHS IN SCRIPTURE, CAN ONLY BE ACCOMPLISHED IN THE SPIRITUAL MIND OF A GENUINELY BORN AGAIN HUMAN SPIRIT; WITH THE HELP OF THE HOLY SPIRIT WHO INDWELLS US.

QUOTE]


WE ARE THE GREATEST. WE ALL SAY SO, SO IT MUST BE TRUE.

VCO YOU ARE JUST SELF-DECEIVED. YOU LIKE TO THINK THAT YOU 'ACCEPT SCRIPTURE LITERALLY'. WHAT YOU ACTUALLY DO IS FIT IT INTO YOUR MOLD!!!

 

[valiant]

I showed you, IT BEGINS WHEN HIS FEET TOUCH THE MOUNT OF OLIVES on His return, literally splitting it in two, forming a deep Valley, thus it is a LITERAL 1000 Year Kingdom here on earth.

Jesus' feet touched the mount of olives on His first coming. Why do you think Zechariah chose the mount of olives?. No one had ever heard of it in Scripture before. He chose it to represent the olive trees, the witnesses for Christ (Zech 4.3, 11, 14) who would go north and south with the Gospel. It will not literally be divided. It is a typical Zechariah word picture.

Incidentally there is no mention of either Christ, or His return in Zech14. The One Who stands on the Mount of Olives is YHWH.

I thought you said you interpreted Scripture LITERALLY? LOL So why introduce Christ at all?

 

[Cassian]

I posted facts. Specific ones. You GENERALIZE and broad-brush every post to avoid the inevitable......and that would be your doctrine busted big time.

But you now know premillinialism doctrine was around when you say it was not.
That makes you a deceiver.

Typical misunderstandings. Find the quote that I made that states it did not exist in the third century? In fact I posted the information you did many pages ago.
I'll help with your inaccurate reading. The ONLY thing that I have ever stated is that it NEVER existed as a belief of the Church.

It never existed as a doctrine of the Church and the historical fact is the Church considered it a false teaching and condemned it. Those are facts you cannot refute.

I might also reiterate that the millennial view in that time period is not remotely similar to modern versions. There was no dispensational view attached to it, there was no earthly reign of Christ attached to either. It is just a very simple historical fact that the premillennial views espoused today are all false and unscriptural.

 

[valiant]

SURPRISE, your teachers OBVIOUSLY know EXTREMELY LITTLE about the Teachings of Jewish Rabbi's. At least what I have learned, comes mostly from people who were born and raised as JEWS. Those who I have learned from include:

Dr. Zola Levitt
Jews for Jesus
Jewish Voice
Beth Sar Shalom Fellowship
Eliezer Urbach
Jewish Wedding Customs and the Bride of Messiah
Portrait of a Messianic Jewish Wedding - Jews for Jesus
Ancient Jewish Wedding Customs and Yeshua's Second Coming | Messianic Bible
etc., etc.

Yes people who are knowledgeable about MODERN Judaism. And any who claim that festivals and celebrations have never changed are simply making clear their own ignorance..

I believe OUR NEW DWELLING PLACE, that will be our Bridal Chamber is the New City Jerusalem in heaven that will eventually be lowered onto the New Earth.[/FONT][/COLOR]

You can believe what you like. But you do not obtain it from Scripture. The NEW JERUSALEM IS THE BRIDE (Rev 21.2).

BELIEVE ME, I do not trust your teachers to KNOW WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT.

Believe me they are the world's leading scholars of Judaism. Not like your amateur mob.

 

[valiant]

You do know YOUR DEMAND FOR PROOF, is exactly identical to the DEMANDS for proof of the existence of Christ as a real person THAT COMES DAILY FROM ATHEISTS. So you are an unbeliever, it is no skin off my nose if you remain so.

what you mean is that you have NO PROOF. I have plenty of proof that Jesus was a real person, so why should I demand it. You are simply revealing how silly you are!!!!.

'Mazel Tov' exhibit celebrates Jewish wedding traditions
Museum educator Ellie Gettinger describes the features of a special chuppah, or wedding canopy, on display as part of a new exhibit on Jewish wedding traditions at the Jewish Museum Milwaukee.

So he presents modern Jewish customs. What of it?

That chuppah, a contemporary adaptation of an ancient ritual item, is the centerpiece of a new exhibit - "Mazel Tov: A Celebration of Jewish Weddings" - at the Jewish Museum Milwaukee.

Like I said, you know extremely little about the dedication of Jews to keeping rituals identical.

LOL Like I said, neither do you, nor do the people you mentioned. They can only go back a couple of centuries. All else is speculation.

LEARN, if you want to:

I prefer to get my information from REAL SCHOLARS and genuine experts on Judaism who have studied it all their lives among experts. You clearly live in cloud cuckoo land.

 

[ukok102nak]

we hope to learn to them also :happy:
That is if the "NEW JERUSALEM" SHALL BE BROGHT
FROM WHERE IT WAS BEFORE
:smoke: AS THE WORD "JERUSALEM" ITSELF WAS BEEN COINED.

:ty:

 

[ukok102nak]

AND NEVER FORGET OUR
QUESTION :think:
where in the ancient manuscript of holy scriptures does the
word "YAHWEH" CAN BE FOUND?

:ty:

 

[popeye]

You have an entirely different understanding regarding scripture. Scripture was not given in isolation or a vacuum, nor was it even given in written form. There is no logical reason that the Holy Spirit is going to give either more revelation based on scripture, nor interpretations in this modern age different than He originally give in the beginning.

The Holy Spirit works to lead men to the ONE Truth He gave a very long time ago, ONCE.

As I stated before, many men make your claim, but they always end up being false teachers. The real test of false teachers/spirits is has it always been believed from the beginning. Is it something the Holy Spirit gave and has preserved from the beginning. Not from some man who claims God spoke to him and gave him new or more revelation. I can give you names of some of those men who make the same claim as you.

........The Holy Spirit works to lead men to the ONE Truth He gave a very long time ago, ONCE. .......
.......Is it something the Holy Spirit gave and has preserved from the beginning........

What early church?
Rome?
Clement?
Ignatious?

No dodging.,tell is what the early church is,and who were it's officers/leaders/contributors?

 

[popeye]

Originally Posted by Cassian

You have an entirely different understanding regarding scripture. Scripture was not given in isolation or a vacuum, nor was it even given in written form. There is no logical reason that the Holy Spirit is going to give either more revelation based on scripture, nor interpretations in this modern age different than He originally give in the beginning.

The Holy Spirit works to lead men to the ONE Truth He gave a very long time ago, ONCE.

As I stated before, many men make your claim, but they always end up being false teachers. The real test of false teachers/spirits is has it always been believed from the beginning. Is it something the Holy Spirit gave and has preserved from the beginning. Not from some man who claims God spoke to him and gave him new or more revelation. I can give you names of some of those men who make the same claim as you.

There is no logical reason that the Holy Spirit is going to give either more revelation based on scripture, nor interpretations in this modern age different than He originally give in the beginning.

The Holy Spirit works to lead men to the ONE Truth He gave a very long time ago, ONCE.

What beginning?
Who?
Where?

What one truth? To who?

 

[valiant]

What early church?
Rome?
Clement?
Ignatious?

No dodging.,tell is what the early church is,and who were it's officers/leaders/contributors?

The early church was the church under the Apostles. Clement and Ignatius were the post-Apostolic church as is obvious from their writings. Neither had real understanding of what the Apostles taught.

 

[dalconn]

Here are a few scriptures that was written AFTER Jesus resurrection....beware! the Devil is on the prowl


Romans 16:20 The God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet. The grace of our Lord Jesus be with you.

2 Tim 2:24-26 × [h=3]References for 2 Timothy 2:23[/h]

• Cross References

• 38 2:23 - S ver 14

24 And the Lord's servant must not quarrel; instead, he must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful. × [h=3]References for 2 Timothy 2:24[/h]

• Cross References

• 39 2:24 - 1Ti 3:2,3

25 Those who oppose him he must gently instruct, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth, × [h=3]References for 2 Timothy 2:25[/h]

• Cross References

• 40 2:25 - S 1Ti 2:4

26 and that they will come to their senses and escape from the trap of the devil, who has taken them captive to do his will.