U.S. Supreme Court declines stay 4 clerk refusing to issue gay marriage certificates

[Mitspa]

A gay person is gay because they are attracted to individuals of the same sex. That means, they have a homosexual orientation...thus are gay. That's the difference between what you define as gay and what a gay person defines as gay. They define themselves as gay before they even submit to this sin, because of their ATTRACTION. The attraction is what makes them aware they are "gay" or "gay oriented".

So if a man is not attracted to adults but children ...thast because he has that orientation? I guess all other sexual deviants can say the same?

That "orientation" is called a desire to sin against God and it grows as one submits to that desire.

 

[Lis45]

Look you laughed at that lady..its clear you did ...and then you tried to curse me with saying you would pray I would have a gay child ...yes wicked is the correct word.

Whatever. Quit your crying. The way you just stated "It's clear you did"?...Is the same dumb way you tend to interpret scripture. Sorry. You are not very honest. Wicked would be the correct word for that.

 

[ThomistColin]

Dude ..this sin is like all other sin..it begins in the heart and mind...to even promote that the attraction is acceptable to God is to approve this sin. Just as the Lord clearly taught ... A homosexual attraction is a sin not just the sexual act.

I and Lis have not stated that the attraction is acceptable to God. The attraction is sinful. It is to be resisted.

What we disagree with you on is that we believe people are born with this sinful attraction as a manifestation of the fallen nature of man. Man is born inherently selfish and sinful in nature. We believe this sinful attraction is also inherent in those afflicted with it. It does not make it acceptable, for its not acceptable to be sinful in nature nor is it acceptable to be selfish, yet we all are. WHY? Because of Adam's sin in the garden.

You do not acknowledge this response because you are either ignoring us or simply unwilling to acknowledge that we are against the sinful attraction. Yes, even we who have the desire, recognize it is sinful.

I was never molested, raped, or sexualized at an early age. I didn't have an overbearing mother or an absent father. I don't fit into you nice little picture that makes it someone elses fault that I have this affliction. Why do I have this affliction? Because I am human. This is my sinful nature that I lay bear on the altar of Christ. No one did this to me. No one messed me up to be this way. I am a sinner, who falls at the feet of our Loving Saviour and asks for His forgiveness and His strength to overcome and beat down this sinful attraction.

You are the ones who wish to blame others for this, by explaining it away of "Oh you were raped...you need to get over it." (BY THE WAY, NOT SOMETHING TO SAY TO SOMEONE WHO WAS RAPED!) or you say, "You chose this." Yeah, I chose to get followed home and almost beaten, had it not been for a friend of mine who was sitting on his porch with a shotgun. Yeah, my ex-boyfriend chose to live a life that would get him kicked out, disowned, and beaten with a bat so that he has a permanent scar across his forehead.

We did not choose our sinful desires. But they are OUR SINFUL desires. They are OUR CROSS to bear, and to lay down at the feet of Christ as we cry out for mercy. They are not your sins. They are not Lady's sins. They are OUR SINS. We own them because we acknowledge that we are in need of a Saviour.

Now, I've been celibate and chaste for years, by the Lord's strength. Those desires are actually dwindling slowly, THANK GOD! However, I do not trust my desires, I do not trust my flesh, because I know what it wants, and what it is capable of.

In short, we are born gay because we are BORN IN SIN! Gay attractions are sinful desires. TO give into them is to COMMIT SIN. We should not fantasize, we should not lust, and we should not physically act on them. For to do that is SINFUL! What you fail to acknowledge is WE ALREADY KNOW THIS! Laying the blame on us as wanting to be hated and killed, or laying the blame on a (ficticious in my case, cause I've never been raped) rapist, is to pass the Buck. WE ALL HAVE PROBLEMS! How about you help by inviting us to dinner on a friday night, or to come watch a game, or go to a hymn sing, or go out for a cup of coffee for real conversations about God and the Universe instead of standing on the sidelines screaming, "SINNER SINNER SINNER" as if you were Satan himself before God. How about you actually get involved in ministries that help homosexuals live a life of chastity.

OR HOW ABOUT THIS? ASK US IF WE NEED PRAYER BECAUSE LAST NIGHT WE HAD A MOMENT OF WEAKNESS AND ARE AFRAID? HOW ABOUT THAT? HOW ABOUT ACTUALLY BEING CHRIST TO US?

How about being the one's we can confide in, when the struggle gets bad? How about being an accountability for us saying, "I'm not sure you should spend time with him, I've noticed that when you do, you have a heard time with your desires"? HOW ABOUT THAT?! BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT WE ARE LOOKING FOR! Someone to see us as human, as their brothers and sisters in Christ! HOW ABOUT THAT?!

 

[blue_ladybug]

Blue how do you explain those of parents that are addicts but yet their mother isn't? That logic is wrong. They can get their alcoholism from their father and father alone.

Ok, I don't usually repeat myself, but for the sake of clarity I will.. Like I said in my previous reply, babies CAN be born addicted IF the mother is an addict and drinks or drugs while pregnant. Speaking to later in life, they may watch the alcoholic behavior of their mother, and try it for themselves, decide they like that dopey feeling and become a full-blown alky or druggie.. But please don't try to argue the point that babies are born addicted because of something THEY did. That's like saying "God got me high before I was born." See how ludicrous that sounds?

On another point, IF God DOES make gay babies, then how do you explain away that sin? I mean, God says it's a sin, yet he made a baby that way? Wouldn't that contradict everything he says about sin? If he created me gay, (which btw I'm NOT) then what need would I have to repent of that sin, since he "made me this way"? If that's the case, none of us need to repent our sins, because God gave them to us when we were born, so it's okay.. lol

 

[Mitspa]

I and Lis have not stated that the attraction is acceptable to God. The attraction is sinful. It is to be resisted.

What we disagree with you on is that we believe people are born with this sinful attraction as a manifestation of the fallen nature of man. Man is born inherently selfish and sinful in nature. We believe this sinful attraction is also inherent in those afflicted with it. It does not make it acceptable, for its not acceptable to be sinful in nature nor is it acceptable to be selfish, yet we all are. WHY? Because of Adam's sin in the garden.

You do not acknowledge this response because you are either ignoring us or simply unwilling to acknowledge that we are against the sinful attraction. Yes, even we who have the desire, recognize it is sinful.

I was never molested, raped, or sexualized at an early age. I didn't have an overbearing mother or an absent father. I don't fit into you nice little picture that makes it someone elses fault that I have this affliction. Why do I have this affliction? Because I am human. This is my sinful nature that I lay bear on the altar of Christ. No one did this to me. No one messed me up to be this way. I am a sinner, who falls at the feet of our Loving Saviour and asks for His forgiveness and His strength to overcome and beat down this sinful attraction.

You are the ones who wish to blame others for this, by explaining it away of "Oh you were raped...you need to get over it." (BY THE WAY, NOT SOMETHING TO SAY TO SOMEONE WHO WAS RAPED!) or you say, "You chose this." Yeah, I chose to get followed home and almost beaten, had it not been for a friend of mine who was sitting on his porch with a shotgun. Yeah, my ex-boyfriend chose to live a life that would get him kicked out, disowned, and beaten with a bat so that he has a permanent scar across his forehead.

We did not choose our sinful desires. But they are OUR SINFUL desires. They are OUR CROSS to bear, and to lay down at the feet of Christ as we cry out for mercy. They are not your sins. They are not Lady's sins. They are OUR SINS. We own them because we acknowledge that we are in need of a Saviour.

Now, I've been celibate and chaste for years, by the Lord's strength. Those desires are actually dwindling slowly, THANK GOD! However, I do not trust my desires, I do not trust my flesh, because I know what it wants, and what it is capable of.

In short, we are born gay because we are BORN IN SIN! Gay attractions are sinful desires. TO give into them is to COMMIT SIN. We should not fantasize, we should not lust, and we should not physically act on them. For to do that is SINFUL! What you fail to acknowledge is WE ALREADY KNOW THIS! Laying the blame on us as wanting to be hated and killed, or laying the blame on a (ficticious in my case, cause I've never been raped) rapist, is to pass the Buck. WE ALL HAVE PROBLEMS! How about you help by inviting us to dinner on a friday night, or to come watch a game, or go to a hymn sing, or go out for a cup of coffee for real conversations about God and the Universe instead of standing on the sidelines screaming, "SINNER SINNER SINNER" as if you were Satan himself before God. How about you actually get involved in ministries that help homosexuals live a life of chastity.

OR HOW ABOUT THIS? ASK US IF WE NEED PRAYER BECAUSE LAST NIGHT WE HAD A MOMENT OF WEAKNESS AND ARE AFRAID? HOW ABOUT THAT? HOW ABOUT ACTUALLY BEING CHRIST TO US?

How about being the one's we can confide in, when the struggle gets bad? How about being an accountability for us saying, "I'm not sure you should spend time with him, I've noticed that when you do, you have a heard time with your desires"? HOW ABOUT THAT?! BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT WE ARE LOOKING FOR! Someone to see us as human, as their brothers and sisters in Christ! HOW ABOUT THAT?!

No one is born gay... yes we are all born sinners...but as we yield to certain sins, that sin begins to control and own us. This is how a homosexual is made by the god of this world. Sure does he often start when one is very young to put these sort of thoughts into the mind of a child... Im sure he does and im also sure we learn as a child when we cross lines into sin. No gay person was ever born, they where made. As far as your personal struggle ... I pray you always have Gods strength...but understand as long as you have excuses for these desires with dishonest worldly logic? You hinder the truth of God to bring complete deliverance.

 

[justpassinthrough]

But clerks have been affixing their names to marriage certificates in violation of God's word regarding adultery FOR YEARS!!! Why is this a "sudden" moral conviction... that homosexuality is MORE sinful than adultery... please show me the scriptures that support that? Anyone???

To her, it's about marriage and God's Word...

I never imagined a day like this would come, where I would be asked to violate a central teaching of Scripture and of Jesus Himself regarding marriage. To issue a marriage license which conflicts with God's definition of marriage, with my name affixed to the certificate, would violate my conscience. It is not a light issue for me. It is a Heaven or Hell decision. For me it is a decision of obedience.


... To me this has never been a gay or lesbian issue. It is about marriage and God's Word.


How many people who apply for a marriage license state that they intend to willfully commit adultery later on.


You statement makes no sense.



JPT

 

[Yeraza_Bats]

Speaking as one who was born this way, that doesn't make it okay. Jesus did not say to the sinner, its okay, you were born with a sin nature. Homosexuality is a manifestation of that sin nature, that original sin which damned the world and all of the offspring of Adam and Eve. So, being born gay, does not make it acceptable or okay to act upon. I don't believe we will ever find a "gay gene" because I don't think sexuality is solely based on a single gene, but an entire make up of a human being. (Case in point, it has been shown that the brain of homosexuals do differ from the brain of heterosexuals.) This does not make it acceptable or good or righteous, just human, and therefore, fallen and unrighteous.

Being someone who deals with this issue, and has for a long time, I can say that no one is really "born this way", and that its only acting out on what youre "attracted to", which is not something that you cant control.

And Id like to see that proof of the brain of those who live life as a homosexual being different than those who dont. I have seen the proof as well, and its all based on random statistics. Things like twins often being gay, and the fact that many gay men have this certain chromozone that many straight men dont have. But that would merely be random chance, as we clearly have men who are gay and would tell you they cant help it and cant be straight have this as well, as well as men who are straight and have no desire to be with another men who do have this. It is not definitive proof, and even the two men who made these discoveries have admitted that it is not actual proof, but only something that could led to it being true.

(btw they were both gay, and yet NO ONE questions their findings with this fact)


And if you are a believer in Christ, is it really so hard to believe you have spiritual beings tempting you in order to lead you against God? Whats so impossible about this, that we must claim that all our temptations are actually just genes in our brains that we cant say no to?

 

[Yeraza_Bats]

A gay person is gay because they are attracted to individuals of the same sex. That means, they have a homosexual orientation...thus are gay. That's the difference between what you define as gay and what a gay person defines as gay. They define themselves as gay before they even submit to this sin, because of their ATTRACTION. The attraction is what makes them aware they are "gay" or "gay oriented".

I deal with the temptation, but I am not okay with being called "gay", as I have made the decision to ignore my urges, which become easier to ignore the more you make the choice to ignore.

Would this not make it a choice? I deal with temptation, same as you, same as everyone else here. What forces me to act out on them besides my own personal choice?


This is why its a behavior, and not an actual "group" of people, like with race and gender. No one can chose to not be black or be female.

 

[Yeraza_Bats]

Blue how do you explain those of parents that are addicts but yet their mother isn't? That logic is wrong. They can get their alcoholism from their father and father alone.

Because they decided to try drugs or alcohol, and formed an addiction.


Why must everything be about "genes" now? Is it really so hard to take some personal responsibility?


Its insane how the secular world holds claim over the word logic, when they truly feel we must bring an end to personal responsibility and say that every thing that we do is all based on genetic makeup.



Sometimes I really dont want to go to work, I just want to sit around and do nothing.
Damn you genes! How dare you make me lazy!

 

[Lis45]

Funny, Jesus spent His time with "the perverted". And the Pharisees couldn't understand why. I believe He'd be spending time with " these perverts" today. And you'd be the Pharisee questioning why.

AMEN! I'm so thankful for the love of the Lord. He is good and turns NO ONE away. People like Mitspa cannot understand why SINNERS were so attracted to Jesus.....it certainly wasn't because of an attitude like his own towards homosexuals. And yes, this is EXACTLY why the pharisees were so angry with Jesus...they could not and refused to understand His Love towards sinners.

 

[Lis45]

Just like someone is tempted to steal or lie and submit themselves to that sin..that sin begins to control them and define them. No baby is born a pervert but learn that sinful life by not resisting those sinful and perverted desires. A child molester learns to be attracted to children because they allow those perverted desires to have place in their heart and mind..same with a homosexual... This is the issue with those of you who promote the gay agenda and approve and defend this perversion, instead of telling these people to resist these perverted desires and warn them of Gods Judgment, you encourage them to hold these lust and lead them further into bondage to this sinful perversion.

So your saying a gay person is only gay because they've "allowed" these perverted desires to have place in their hearts? OMG, you are clueless.

 

[Lis45]

I know you know the difference between a deformed baby and a sexual deviant? So are all perverts and deviants born that way or just the PC ones? Im sure some rapist and child molesters would love to claim its not really their fault.

You consider a gay person a "sexual deviant" automatically because they're gay? You compare them to rapist and child molestors based on what? The fact that they have this attraction? Really? Your sick.

 

[Lis45]

So if a man is not attracted to adults but children ...thast because he has that orientation? I guess all other sexual deviants can say the same?

That "orientation" is called a desire to sin against God and it grows as one submits to that desire.

ok, so now it's no longer a "temptation" or an inclination. It'll tell you what it is. It is part of our sinful nature. Each of us manifests that sinful nature in different ways....with some it manifests itself with homosexuality. It's no different than the little temper tantrums that manifest through you. So get off your high horse.

 

[Lis45]

I and Lis have not stated that the attraction is acceptable to God. The attraction is sinful. It is to be resisted.

What we disagree with you on is that we believe people are born with this sinful attraction as a manifestation of the fallen nature of man. Man is born inherently selfish and sinful in nature. We believe this sinful attraction is also inherent in those afflicted with it. It does not make it acceptable, for its not acceptable to be sinful in nature nor is it acceptable to be selfish, yet we all are. WHY? Because of Adam's sin in the garden.

You do not acknowledge this response because you are either ignoring us or simply unwilling to acknowledge that we are against the sinful attraction. Yes, even we who have the desire, recognize it is sinful.

I was never molested, raped, or sexualized at an early age. I didn't have an overbearing mother or an absent father. I don't fit into you nice little picture that makes it someone elses fault that I have this affliction. Why do I have this affliction? Because I am human. This is my sinful nature that I lay bear on the altar of Christ. No one did this to me. No one messed me up to be this way. I am a sinner, who falls at the feet of our Loving Saviour and asks for His forgiveness and His strength to overcome and beat down this sinful attraction.

You are the ones who wish to blame others for this, by explaining it away of "Oh you were raped...you need to get over it." (BY THE WAY, NOT SOMETHING TO SAY TO SOMEONE WHO WAS RAPED!) or you say, "You chose this." Yeah, I chose to get followed home and almost beaten, had it not been for a friend of mine who was sitting on his porch with a shotgun. Yeah, my ex-boyfriend chose to live a life that would get him kicked out, disowned, and beaten with a bat so that he has a permanent scar across his forehead.

We did not choose our sinful desires. But they are OUR SINFUL desires. They are OUR CROSS to bear, and to lay down at the feet of Christ as we cry out for mercy. They are not your sins. They are not Lady's sins. They are OUR SINS. We own them because we acknowledge that we are in need of a Saviour.

Now, I've been celibate and chaste for years, by the Lord's strength. Those desires are actually dwindling slowly, THANK GOD! However, I do not trust my desires, I do not trust my flesh, because I know what it wants, and what it is capable of.

In short, we are born gay because we are BORN IN SIN! Gay attractions are sinful desires. TO give into them is to COMMIT SIN. We should not fantasize, we should not lust, and we should not physically act on them. For to do that is SINFUL! What you fail to acknowledge is WE ALREADY KNOW THIS! Laying the blame on us as wanting to be hated and killed, or laying the blame on a (ficticious in my case, cause I've never been raped) rapist, is to pass the Buck. WE ALL HAVE PROBLEMS! How about you help by inviting us to dinner on a friday night, or to come watch a game, or go to a hymn sing, or go out for a cup of coffee for real conversations about God and the Universe instead of standing on the sidelines screaming, "SINNER SINNER SINNER" as if you were Satan himself before God. How about you actually get involved in ministries that help homosexuals live a life of chastity.

OR HOW ABOUT THIS? ASK US IF WE NEED PRAYER BECAUSE LAST NIGHT WE HAD A MOMENT OF WEAKNESS AND ARE AFRAID? HOW ABOUT THAT? HOW ABOUT ACTUALLY BEING CHRIST TO US?

How about being the one's we can confide in, when the struggle gets bad? How about being an accountability for us saying, "I'm not sure you should spend time with him, I've noticed that when you do, you have a heard time with your desires"? HOW ABOUT THAT?! BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT WE ARE LOOKING FOR! Someone to see us as human, as their brothers and sisters in Christ! HOW ABOUT THAT?!

Your words are oh, so powerful, and true. It's obvious that Mitspa should NEVER involve himself in any ministry involving homosexuals at this time, because without the love and wisdom of Christ, he is unable to minister to them effectively. That might night be his calling, which is fine...but he needs to stop judging others who are called according to His purpose. I just want you to know, that you are cherished and loved by both the Lord and myself....and I would be more than happy to pray for your continued strength in the Lord in dealing with these issues. I would rather have a living room full of homosexuals struggling with this sin, than to have one Mitspa ruin a good game and some good fellowship, lol. I am so happy to have you in the family of God, and I just want you to know that YOU ARE LOVED.

 

[Lis45]

No one is born gay... yes we are all born sinners...but as we yield to certain sins, that sin begins to control and own us. This is how a homosexual is made by the god of this world. Sure does he often start when one is very young to put these sort of thoughts into the mind of a child... Im sure he does and im also sure we learn as a child when we cross lines into sin. No gay person was ever born, they where made. As far as your personal struggle ... I pray you always have Gods strength...but understand as long as you have excuses for these desires with dishonest worldly logic? You hinder the truth of God to bring complete deliverance.

"Sure does he often start when one is very young to put these sort of thoughts into the mind of a child... Im sure he does and im also sure we learn as a child when we cross lines into sin. No gay person was ever born, they where made."....

why do you think these "thoughts" are put into the mind of a child? It's because their "sin nature", which they are born with..begins to manifest itself. That's just what it does. It doesn't mean he's saying that they are not sinful, they are, and he is in no way making "excuses" for that. He's simply saying that he is not the one who asked for these thoughts or attractions, it's just what his own sinful nature dealt him...and he has gone through a life-long process in dealing with them. It has nothing to do with "worldly logic", but everything to do with his sinful nature and how he is responding to it. Your accusations are false, presumptuous, and quite disgusting. You say you're going to "pray" as if you truly love or care for this brother, then turn around and add a condition based on a false presumption. How sad.

 

[crossnote]

Being gay, whether by genes or cultural conditioning has absolutely no connection with the justification to grant legality to same sex marriage in the light of God's definition from Genesis 2.
Kim did right in taking a stand upholding God's definition over man's, even if it meant breaking man's law.
Shame on the Christians that shame her.

 

[Mitspa]

So your saying a gay person is only gay because they've "allowed" these perverted desires to have place in their hearts? OMG, you are clueless.

Yes that people become a slave to sin when they submit themselves to sin... Have you read the bible?

 

[Mitspa]

You consider a gay person a "sexual deviant" automatically because they're gay? You compare them to rapist and child molestors based on what? The fact that they have this attraction? Really? Your sick.

Yes the bible explains that very clearly ...

 

[Mitspa]

"Sure does he often start when one is very young to put these sort of thoughts into the mind of a child... Im sure he does and im also sure we learn as a child when we cross lines into sin. No gay person was ever born, they where made."....

why do you think these "thoughts" are put into the mind of a child? It's because their "sin nature", which they are born with..begins to manifest itself. That's just what it does. It doesn't mean he's saying that they are not sinful, they are, and he is in no way making "excuses" for that. He's simply saying that he is not the one who asked for these thoughts or attractions, it's just what his own sinful nature dealt him...and he has gone through a life-long process in dealing with them. It has nothing to do with "worldly logic", but everything to do with his sinful nature and how he is responding to it. Your accusations are false, presumptuous, and quite disgusting. You say you're going to "pray" as if you truly love or care for this brother, then turn around and add a condition based on a false presumption. How sad.

Wow your a little cranky today? Yes I said what I mean and mean what I said... Why does someone who has a thought or desire to steal, eventually become a thief if they continue to entertain and act upon that ungodly desire? Why this seems so strange to you ? Im not sure?

 

[jsr1221]

Ok, I don't usually repeat myself, but for the sake of clarity I will.. Like I said in my previous reply, babies CAN be born addicted IF the mother is an addict and drinks or drugs while pregnant. Speaking to later in life, they may watch the alcoholic behavior of their mother, and try it for themselves, decide they like that dopey feeling and become a full-blown alky or druggie.. But please don't try to argue the point that babies are born addicted because of something THEY did. That's like saying "God got me high before I was born." See how ludicrous that sounds?

On another point, IF God DOES make gay babies, then how do you explain away that sin? I mean, God says it's a sin, yet he made a baby that way? Wouldn't that contradict everything he says about sin? If he created me gay, (which btw I'm NOT) then what need would I have to repent of that sin, since he "made me this way"? If that's the case, none of us need to repent our sins, because God gave them to us when we were born, so it's okay.. lol

I was just trying to point out a person can become an addict to alcohol despite the mom never taking a sip while being pregnant. Again.. You can get that gene from the father. And well, just like I can explain how I don't struggle with alcoholism, despite having a father that did. And a mother that did. And a sister that does. And a grandfather that did. In this situation, yeah, my mother was an addict. But not every single addict in this world became an addict because their mom drank through pregnancy. Guess what? My mom didn't drink while pregnant with me or my sister. Yet, my sister is lost in her addiction, and I know better than to dive into alcoholism because I know that same thing can happen to me. So, how would you explain that comment you made?