Dear Valliant, this verses proof not, that Satan is bound now. But they say that Jesus has the power about evil spirits. Yes, the power of Satan is yet not full at work, but according 2. thess.2.7 ff will it full revealed. Again, the only mention when Satan will bound you can find in Revelation 20,1-3. If Satan wound bound yet, as you state we had not such a terrible world around us. I find it is present terrible enough. The Devil still fights against Gods word and against everything what belongs to Jesus Christ. This he could not do, if he would be bound.
Is the Devil bound right now...?
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Jesus said He had bound the strong man, I prefer to believe Him rather than you. As to the rest, Satan was released in rev 9.11. So he must have been bound. He has quite sufficient evil forces to wreak havoc in the world without being personally present!!! But if he were free to do what he wanted we would certainly know it.
A
No He was tempted as man is tempted by the lies of Satan. He promises thing that mock the reality found in God.
He asks for worship that belongs to God. He mimics miracles and false healing of a temporal body while condemning eternal souls.
Is it so hard for you to think the King of lies might have used a lie to tempt Jesus as he still does to most of humanity?
The lie of temporal wealth and happiness in exchange for rebellion to God's commands?
He asks for worship that belongs to God. He mimics miracles and false healing of a temporal body while condemning eternal souls.
Is it so hard for you to think the King of lies might have used a lie to tempt Jesus as he still does to most of humanity?
The lie of temporal wealth and happiness in exchange for rebellion to God's commands?
No one here is making Satan a top dog. It's your lack of understanding of what God is presently using Satan for that causes you to not understand why this present world can never serve as a replacement for God's Kingdom to come.
If you can receive it, in the OT prophets, God used the title of "the Assyrian" as a symbolic title for Satan in some Scriptures. Isaiah 10 was a historical reference to what role the flesh king of Assyria would serve that God would allow him to do upon the rebellious of His people, and that role is associated with Satan also as a punishing rod upon the wicked which God uses.
Isa 30:30-33
30 And the LORD shall cause his glorious voice to be heard, and shall shew the lighting down of his arm, with the indignation of his anger, and with the flame of a devouring fire, with scattering, and tempest, and hailstones.
31 For through the voice of the LORD shall the Assyrian be beaten down, which smote with a rod.
32 And in every place where the grounded staff shall pass, which the LORD shall lay upon him, it shall be with tabrets and harps: and in battles of shaking will he fight with it.
33 For Tophet is ordained of old; yea, for the king it is prepared; he hath made it deep and large: the pile thereof is fire and much wood; the breath of the LORD, like a stream of brimstone, doth kindle it.
KJV
Ezek 31:3-8
3 Behold, the Assyrian was a cedar in Lebanon with fair branches, and with a shadowing shroud, and of an high stature; and his top was among the thick boughs.
4 The waters made him great, the deep set him up on high with her rivers running round about his plants, and sent out her little rivers unto all the trees of the field.
5 Therefore his height was exalted above all the trees of the field, and his boughs were multiplied, and his branches became long because of the multitude of waters, when he shot forth.
6 All the fowls of heaven made their nests in his boughs, and under his branches did all the beasts of the field bring forth their young, and under his shadow dwelt all great nations.
7 Thus was he fair in his greatness, in the length of his branches: for his root was by great waters.
8 The cedars in the garden of God could not hide him: the fir trees were not like his boughs, and the chestnut trees were not like his branches; nor any tree in the garden of God was like unto him in his beauty.
KJV
The flesh king of Assyria never... was "in the garden of God", i.e, God's Garden of Eden, but Satan was. That is a type of parable like in Ezekiel 28 about Satan.
Isa 10:13-17
13 For he saith, By the strength of my hand I have done it, and by my wisdom; for I am prudent: and I have removed the bounds of the people, and have robbed their treasures, and I have put down the inhabitants like a valiant man:
14 And my hand hath found as a nest the riches of the people: and as one gathereth eggs that are left, have I gathered all the earth; and there was none that moved the wing, or opened the mouth, or peeped.
15 Shall the axe boast itself against him that heweth therewith? or shall the saw magnify itself against him that shaketh it? as if the rod should shake itself against them that lift it up, or as if the staff should lift up itself, as if it were no wood.
16 Therefore shall the Lord, the Lord of hosts, send among his fat ones leanness; and under his glory he shall kindle a burning like the burning of a fire.
17 And the light of Israel shall be for a fire, and his Holy One for a flame: and it shall burn and devour his thorns and his briers in one day;
KJV
While God's people are in this present world, we are not of this world, even as Jesus said He is not of this world.
Ezek 28:14-15
14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
KJV
Ezek 28:18
18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.
KJV
That is about Satan. His destruction is that God will bring a fire upon him to turn him to ashes "upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold" him. Until then, God is using him, showing that God is in complete control.
If you can receive it, in the OT prophets, God used the title of "the Assyrian" as a symbolic title for Satan in some Scriptures. Isaiah 10 was a historical reference to what role the flesh king of Assyria would serve that God would allow him to do upon the rebellious of His people, and that role is associated with Satan also as a punishing rod upon the wicked which God uses.
Isa 30:30-33
30 And the LORD shall cause his glorious voice to be heard, and shall shew the lighting down of his arm, with the indignation of his anger, and with the flame of a devouring fire, with scattering, and tempest, and hailstones.
31 For through the voice of the LORD shall the Assyrian be beaten down, which smote with a rod.
32 And in every place where the grounded staff shall pass, which the LORD shall lay upon him, it shall be with tabrets and harps: and in battles of shaking will he fight with it.
33 For Tophet is ordained of old; yea, for the king it is prepared; he hath made it deep and large: the pile thereof is fire and much wood; the breath of the LORD, like a stream of brimstone, doth kindle it.
KJV
Ezek 31:3-8
3 Behold, the Assyrian was a cedar in Lebanon with fair branches, and with a shadowing shroud, and of an high stature; and his top was among the thick boughs.
4 The waters made him great, the deep set him up on high with her rivers running round about his plants, and sent out her little rivers unto all the trees of the field.
5 Therefore his height was exalted above all the trees of the field, and his boughs were multiplied, and his branches became long because of the multitude of waters, when he shot forth.
6 All the fowls of heaven made their nests in his boughs, and under his branches did all the beasts of the field bring forth their young, and under his shadow dwelt all great nations.
7 Thus was he fair in his greatness, in the length of his branches: for his root was by great waters.
8 The cedars in the garden of God could not hide him: the fir trees were not like his boughs, and the chestnut trees were not like his branches; nor any tree in the garden of God was like unto him in his beauty.
KJV
The flesh king of Assyria never... was "in the garden of God", i.e, God's Garden of Eden, but Satan was. That is a type of parable like in Ezekiel 28 about Satan.
Isa 10:13-17
13 For he saith, By the strength of my hand I have done it, and by my wisdom; for I am prudent: and I have removed the bounds of the people, and have robbed their treasures, and I have put down the inhabitants like a valiant man:
14 And my hand hath found as a nest the riches of the people: and as one gathereth eggs that are left, have I gathered all the earth; and there was none that moved the wing, or opened the mouth, or peeped.
15 Shall the axe boast itself against him that heweth therewith? or shall the saw magnify itself against him that shaketh it? as if the rod should shake itself against them that lift it up, or as if the staff should lift up itself, as if it were no wood.
16 Therefore shall the Lord, the Lord of hosts, send among his fat ones leanness; and under his glory he shall kindle a burning like the burning of a fire.
17 And the light of Israel shall be for a fire, and his Holy One for a flame: and it shall burn and devour his thorns and his briers in one day;
KJV
While God's people are in this present world, we are not of this world, even as Jesus said He is not of this world.
Ezek 28:14-15
14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
KJV
Ezek 28:18
18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.
KJV
That is about Satan. His destruction is that God will bring a fire upon him to turn him to ashes "upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold" him. Until then, God is using him, showing that God is in complete control.
RUBBISH...........
You are simply bringing out your ignorance about Satan and distorting the word of God to fit in with your ideas
Some of you Americans do let you imaginations go wild. By your methods we can make Scripture mean anything. That was how people talked in those days. It had nothing to do with Satan. It had to do with idolatrous religion. Your ideas are based on idol worship.
You are simply bringing out your ignorance about Satan and distorting the word of God to fit in with your ideas
Some of you Americans do let you imaginations go wild. By your methods we can make Scripture mean anything. That was how people talked in those days. It had nothing to do with Satan. It had to do with idolatrous religion. Your ideas are based on idol worship.
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Dear Valliant, in my bible Rev. 9,11 mentioned Apollyon and nothing about Satan. If Satan would be mentioned there, we would find his name there. Well you must not believe me, but it would be good to believe in that what is written. Also you taken this vers from context, this can lead you to a wrong interpretation.
The Holy Spirit, i suppose he is the one who holds back the full evil which will reveal in the antichrist, but this is than when the body of christ has left the earth to meet the Lord ib heaven. Again, when Satan is bound during the 1000 years, then he and his angels are not able to fo what they are now doing.
The Holy Spirit, i suppose he is the one who holds back the full evil which will reveal in the antichrist, but this is than when the body of christ has left the earth to meet the Lord ib heaven. Again, when Satan is bound during the 1000 years, then he and his angels are not able to fo what they are now doing.
DiscipleDave said
This is a doctrine of man. If it is not, then show the Scripture that teaches when a person dies, they immediately go to Heaven to be with Christ, Show the Scripture that teaches that. if you can't show that Scripture, then it is indeed a doctrine of man, and is NOT what Scriptures teach. Look forward to you trying to answer this question, because i KNOW there is no verse that teaches that. Again, if you think there is, then show the verse.
Scriptures which teach that? There is NONE.
That makes no sense whatsoever, if you think about it. You say that when Christ comes back He brings the spirits of those that have died in the past, so they can be reunited with their OLD bodies. Yet those who are alive already in their bodies they are CHANGED into their Glorified bodies, why do they Change when they are already in their own bodies? You do error not understanding that flesh and blood will NOT enter into the Kingdom of Heaven. The spirits of those that you say are with Christ and comes back do not get their old bodies back, you do not understand the Truth, nor will you accept this Truth even though i tell you it is from God, why is that?
Yes at the time of the Resurrection, when Christ Returns to the Earth with the New City Jerusalem, all the dead (sleeping spirits) will rise and get their NEW Glorified Bodies, flesh from Heaven, NOT FROM THE EARTH. Then the living will discard their Earthly flesh and fall down dead immediately and their spirit will rise and immediately get their NEW Glorified Bodies as well, flesh from Heaven, NOT FROM THE EARTH. Both they and them will rise to be with Jesus to live in reign over the Earth out the New City Jerusalem (Father's House) This is the Truth which you reject.
DiscipleDave said Apparently you did not read what i have previously posted, i even asked you a question saying. Are you saying that those who sleep are not conscience? i have said that those who sleep ARE CONSCIENCE, they are sleeping. you say the dead body is what sleeps, that is like saying rocks sleep, or a stone can sleep. You do error in that thinking. Living sleep, the dead material does not sleep. you are not listening to me, nor answering the question that i present to you to answer.
And i asked you if it were possible if they were awaken out of sleep for this event, which you did not answer. Is it possible they could have been asleep, and then awoken for this event? Yes or No?
Its a Parable.
Luk_7:41 There was a certain creditor which had two debtors: the one owed five hundred pence, and the other fifty. (Parable)
Luk_10:30 And Jesus answering said, A certain man went down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among thieves, (Parable)
Luk_12:16 And he spake a parable unto them, saying, The ground of a certain rich man brought forth plentifully: (Parable)
Luk_13:6 He spake also this parable; A certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard; and he came and sought fruit thereon, and found none. (Parable)
Luk_14:16 Then said he unto him, A certain man made a great supper, and bade many:
(Parable)
Luk_15:11 And he said, A certain man had two sons:
(Parable)
Luk_16:1 ..... ...There was a certain rich man, which had a steward; and the same was accused unto him that he had wasted his goods.
(Parable)
Luk_16:19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
(Parable)
Luk_19:12 He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return.
(Parable)
Luk_20:9 Then began he to speak to the people this parable; A certain man planted a vineyard, and let it forth to husbandmen, and went into a far country for a long time. (Parable)
Leave it to this generation to take a PARABLE and Change it to be TRUE, in order to support their own beliefs. All the above a indeed Parables, But the Parable of the rich man and Lazareth, now that one is a TRUE event and not a parable, and why does this generation say it is a True event and not a parable, because is supports the false doctrine that you immediately go to Heaven at the time of Death.
You still have not answered me all the questions concerning Judgment Day. Is there ONE Day that is Judgment Day, or is there many? You say when a person dies they immediately go to Heaven or to Hell, right? So then that spirit must be JUDGED right then and there according to you, because it is determined at the time of death if they are going to Heaven or going to Hell, right? Can you not see the error in thinking concerning this? There is only ONE JUDGEMENT DAY, and that Day is the Day the Lord Returns, it is ONLY on that Day that the Books are opened to see whose names are written therein. But according to you and all the false prophets behind the pulpits, when a person dies, it the day that it is determined if they go to Heaven or not go to Heaven, is that not what you believe? Is that not what you teach? Answer me if you will, Is at the time of Death of a person is when it is judged if they go to Heaven or to Hell?
Fifth Trumpet has not yet happened, and you did not again, answer my question concerning this, Are souls still under the alter crying for 2,000 years now? Is that what you believe?
Tell me, is Jesus a liar? Is it not written that Jesus was in the heart of the Earth for three days and three nights? Why would Jesus tell the man that TODAY you will be with me in Heaven, If Jesus plainly taught that He would be in the heart of the Earth. So then Jesus was not with the thief THAT day, Jesus After He was risen testified that He has not yet went to His Father in Heaven, Jesus Three Days after He was Crucified testifies that He has not yet gone to Heaven. So then How could He have possibly been in paradise with the thief the same day He was crucified, and was in the heart of the Earth for three days and three nights. You do error not knowing or understanding the Truth.
So let me understand, because Stephen said this, that makes it TRUE, let us go to Scriptures and see what it actually says, let us see if Stephen went up to be with Jesus, let us see if it teaches what you teach that he went immediately to Heaven. Let us look and see what Scriptures says.
Act 7:59 And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.
Act 7:60 And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell ASLEEP.
Tell me, what makes you, YOU? Your spirit or your body? You body is Nothing. What makes you, YOU, is not your body, not your physical makeup, NOT protons, and electrons, and atoms. What makes a person who they are, is the spirit that is in them. The Spirit is YOU. The Spirit is Conscience, the body is not conscience without the Spirit, the body is matter, lifeless, inanimate, dung. It is the spirit that makes you YOU. When it says Stephen feel asleep, that is the spirit of Stephen, what makes Him STEPHEN. You do error.
continued
Scriptures which teach that? There is NONE.
That makes no sense whatsoever, if you think about it. You say that when Christ comes back He brings the spirits of those that have died in the past, so they can be reunited with their OLD bodies. Yet those who are alive already in their bodies they are CHANGED into their Glorified bodies, why do they Change when they are already in their own bodies? You do error not understanding that flesh and blood will NOT enter into the Kingdom of Heaven. The spirits of those that you say are with Christ and comes back do not get their old bodies back, you do not understand the Truth, nor will you accept this Truth even though i tell you it is from God, why is that?
Yes at the time of the Resurrection, when Christ Returns to the Earth with the New City Jerusalem, all the dead (sleeping spirits) will rise and get their NEW Glorified Bodies, flesh from Heaven, NOT FROM THE EARTH. Then the living will discard their Earthly flesh and fall down dead immediately and their spirit will rise and immediately get their NEW Glorified Bodies as well, flesh from Heaven, NOT FROM THE EARTH. Both they and them will rise to be with Jesus to live in reign over the Earth out the New City Jerusalem (Father's House) This is the Truth which you reject.
DiscipleDave said Apparently you did not read what i have previously posted, i even asked you a question saying. Are you saying that those who sleep are not conscience? i have said that those who sleep ARE CONSCIENCE, they are sleeping. you say the dead body is what sleeps, that is like saying rocks sleep, or a stone can sleep. You do error in that thinking. Living sleep, the dead material does not sleep. you are not listening to me, nor answering the question that i present to you to answer.
And i asked you if it were possible if they were awaken out of sleep for this event, which you did not answer. Is it possible they could have been asleep, and then awoken for this event? Yes or No?
Its a Parable.
Luk_7:41 There was a certain creditor which had two debtors: the one owed five hundred pence, and the other fifty. (Parable)
Luk_10:30 And Jesus answering said, A certain man went down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among thieves, (Parable)
Luk_12:16 And he spake a parable unto them, saying, The ground of a certain rich man brought forth plentifully: (Parable)
Luk_13:6 He spake also this parable; A certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard; and he came and sought fruit thereon, and found none. (Parable)
Luk_14:16 Then said he unto him, A certain man made a great supper, and bade many:
(Parable)
Luk_15:11 And he said, A certain man had two sons:
(Parable)
Luk_16:1 ..... ...There was a certain rich man, which had a steward; and the same was accused unto him that he had wasted his goods.
(Parable)
Luk_16:19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
(Parable)
Luk_19:12 He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return.
(Parable)
Luk_20:9 Then began he to speak to the people this parable; A certain man planted a vineyard, and let it forth to husbandmen, and went into a far country for a long time. (Parable)
Leave it to this generation to take a PARABLE and Change it to be TRUE, in order to support their own beliefs. All the above a indeed Parables, But the Parable of the rich man and Lazareth, now that one is a TRUE event and not a parable, and why does this generation say it is a True event and not a parable, because is supports the false doctrine that you immediately go to Heaven at the time of Death.
You still have not answered me all the questions concerning Judgment Day. Is there ONE Day that is Judgment Day, or is there many? You say when a person dies they immediately go to Heaven or to Hell, right? So then that spirit must be JUDGED right then and there according to you, because it is determined at the time of death if they are going to Heaven or going to Hell, right? Can you not see the error in thinking concerning this? There is only ONE JUDGEMENT DAY, and that Day is the Day the Lord Returns, it is ONLY on that Day that the Books are opened to see whose names are written therein. But according to you and all the false prophets behind the pulpits, when a person dies, it the day that it is determined if they go to Heaven or not go to Heaven, is that not what you believe? Is that not what you teach? Answer me if you will, Is at the time of Death of a person is when it is judged if they go to Heaven or to Hell?
Fifth Trumpet has not yet happened, and you did not again, answer my question concerning this, Are souls still under the alter crying for 2,000 years now? Is that what you believe?
Tell me, is Jesus a liar? Is it not written that Jesus was in the heart of the Earth for three days and three nights? Why would Jesus tell the man that TODAY you will be with me in Heaven, If Jesus plainly taught that He would be in the heart of the Earth. So then Jesus was not with the thief THAT day, Jesus After He was risen testified that He has not yet went to His Father in Heaven, Jesus Three Days after He was Crucified testifies that He has not yet gone to Heaven. So then How could He have possibly been in paradise with the thief the same day He was crucified, and was in the heart of the Earth for three days and three nights. You do error not knowing or understanding the Truth.
So let me understand, because Stephen said this, that makes it TRUE, let us go to Scriptures and see what it actually says, let us see if Stephen went up to be with Jesus, let us see if it teaches what you teach that he went immediately to Heaven. Let us look and see what Scriptures says.
Act 7:59 And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.
Act 7:60 And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell ASLEEP.
Tell me, what makes you, YOU? Your spirit or your body? You body is Nothing. What makes you, YOU, is not your body, not your physical makeup, NOT protons, and electrons, and atoms. What makes a person who they are, is the spirit that is in them. The Spirit is YOU. The Spirit is Conscience, the body is not conscience without the Spirit, the body is matter, lifeless, inanimate, dung. It is the spirit that makes you YOU. When it says Stephen feel asleep, that is the spirit of Stephen, what makes Him STEPHEN. You do error.
continued
Continued
This is True, However that does not mean her spirit was in Heaven, like you are teaching. Think about that for a moment. If her spirit was in Heaven, and then Jesus took her out of Heaven to live on the miserable Earth again, how would she not be offended. What? Isn't Heaven a much better place to be? So then Jesus took her out of a better place to put her back on the Earth, which is not better at all. You do error not knowing the Truth, nor believing the Truth when it is presented to you.
Again, this does not teach that when a person dies, they immediately go to Heaven. This is what you have to see in that verse in order to hold on to the doctrine that you believe in. i too would prefer to be absent from this body, and be present with the Lord, Stephen thought also that the Lord would receive his spirit, but what happened, he fell asleep, NOT risen, not raised, but fell asleep. i prefer to die right now and be with Jesus Christ, this does not make it so. The Truth is, and is Scriptural, when i die, if i be in Christ, i (NOT MY BODY), i will sleep, and when Christ gets here to get me, i will rise and get my NEW Glorified Body, NOT the body i have now, NOT the body that is decayed, corrupted, NOT the same body that i have fornicated with, lusted with, the body is wicked and filthy, and my body will never enter into Heaven or into Hell for that matter, my body will return to dust. However if my name is not written in the Book of Life when He Returns, my body and spirit will rise together at the end of the thousand years, to fight in satans army, against the Holy City, because satan is going to try to take it over.
i too, desire to depart from this body and be with Christ, which is far better. This does not mean when a person dies they immediately go to Heaven or to Hell, that is a false doctrine, that is not taught in Scriptures.
No one in Heaven = Angels
or on earth = all human souls (spirits)
or under the earth = satan and all his demons.
That is All the living Everywhere.
DiscipleDave said
You agree, but then turn around and teach that flesh and blood will enter into Heaven. Do you not teach that when a person dies their spirit goes to be with Christ, then when Christ Returns, then their spirit is reunited with their bodies that were in the grave, then go to be with Jesus in Heaven AGAIN, how is that NOT flesh and blood in the Kingdom of Heaven? You teach the spirit and the dead rotting carcass are united whole again to be with Jesus, yes? How is that not flesh and blood inheriting the Kingdom of Heaven?
YOU teach this, not Scriptures, again, show the Scriptures which teach what you have just said here, one verse will be fine. But what do you show instead, verses that you INTERPRET to mean they are in Heaven.
Again, you do error and have not been taught the Truth in the Holy Ghost, Know you not that they did not even recognize Him. He was not in the same body as He was prior, Sure He can appear to them as a black man, He would appear to them as a woman, He could appear to them as an Angels of Light. He is the Son of God in His Glorified Body, The body He had before could feel pain, hunger, thirst, desire, AGED. The Body He had afterwards felt no pain, no hunger, no thirst, and is immortal. It was NOT the same body, How is a Glorified Body the same as a human body? You do error not understanding this Truth. Jesus when He had risen was in His Glorified Body, the same body He had when He walked in the Garden of Eden with Adam and Eve, the same body that of Melchizedek. Jesus was the burning bush that spoke with Moses. Jesus is the Son of God, is it any great thing that He can appear as whatever He wants to appear as. We too in a like manner will be able to do the same. You do error thinking that the spirit that is in you, looks like YOU. The spirit that is in you, has its own look, it existed before the Earth was ever created, why do you teach things that you know not?
Have you not been listening to what i have been saying? The Glorified Flesh, IS FLESH, it is NOT flesh from the EARTH, but is flesh made up of materials from Heaven. The flesh humans have is Earthly, made of the Earth and will return to the Earth, as it is written, from dust we came, to dust we shall return. What is made from the Earth is Earthly. Jesus was in His Glorified body, YES IT IS MOST CERTAINLY FLESH, just like when Jesus and the two Angels went to destroy Sodom and Gomorrah, Jesus and the Angels likewise were in their Glorified FLESH, Abraham called them men, why? because they looked like men, but Abraham knew that one of those MEN, was the Lord Jesus. Of coarse we rise to be with Jesus, but NOT as you say, you say we get our own flesh back, do you not, you say that the spirit and our flesh get back together and rise, you do error, and that is not the Truth. We do rise with a NEW FLESH, a NEW BODY, a GLORIFIED BODY, a body made from Heaven, not a body made from the earth. How many times can i repeat the same thing over and over again, and you still will not see.
So you teach the bodies will rise, and when do they receive the Glorified Bodies? And another thing, Hades nor that place that you say is across from Hades, is in Heaven, or even near Heaven, but is of the Earth.
There is only one way to enter into Heaven, and that is through Jesus Christ, this also applied to all those who lived prior to Him being crucified and rising from the dead. So all souls that died prior to Jesus did not go to Heaven or to Hell, but they went to Hades (Sheol) And were held there until Jesus was crucified, and went there to take the keys of Hades, So now, after Jesus when a person dies they are not held in Hades, they now sleep until once again Jesus Returns and awakes them from their sleep, but to them it will only feel like a second from the time they died till Christ is Here.
DiscipleDave said
False Doctrine.
You said to correct you if you are wrong, you are wrong. i never said they sleep in the dust of the earth, i teach what they Scriptures teach that they sleep, i never once said they sleep in the dust, nor even implied that they did. And also i have made it very clear that they are conscience and aware. Even as a person who sleeps is conscience, not so much aware, because sleep knows no time, but they are most assuredly conscious, you keep saying that i say they are not, but that is not what i say or teach.
That depends if a person dies in Christ or not in Christ. If a person dies NOT in Christ, their original body will rise again, because satan will use them as soldiers in his army for the final battle against the Holy City. But why on Earth would a Saint rise to get their original bodies back, for which is better to rise with a NEW Glorified body from Heaven, or to rise with your original body from Earth? The soul that sleeps in Christ, even as Stephen fell asleep, will rise when Christ Returns, and Stephen will rise with A NEW Body, a Glorified Flesh Body, He will NOT rise with his old human body made of the Earth. Scriptures are True.
Gen_3:19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
We are DUST, we are made of Earthly material, God created us humans from the EARTH, Human flesh is from the Earth. Glorified Flesh is NOT from the Earth, it is made up of nothing from the Earth, no earth flesh, no earth bones, no earth blood. NEW FLESH, NEW BODY is risen with our sleeping spirits that will rise to meet Jesus in the air, and we will be with Him forevermore, NOT in Human flesh like you teach, but in a NEW BODY, a Body made from Heaven, not from Earth.
KNow you not that flesh is corruption, you teach our spirits is reunited with corruption, flesh of the earth is corrupt, as filthy rags, dung, the flesh is evil and wicked, but you say we are reunited with that wicked corrupt flesh. you do error and know not the Truth concerning this matter. That which is not corrupt, does not reunite with that which is corrupted. you do error. Is it not written that the flesh and spirit are at enmity with each other, but you teach they will be reunited.
The human flesh does not rise, and there is not one verse that supports your doctrine.
And if i told you again, would you hear it this time? i am repeating myself to you over and over again. Paul never says what you say above, you convienently leave out the words "willing rather"
i feel in spirit that i have said all that i am going to say on this matter, when i repeat myself over and over again, and it is not being heard, then it is not wise to continue to repeat the same things over and over expecting a different result.
i have told you the Truth, it is not my calling to convince you of the Truth, i have told you what God has told me, what is it to me, if you do not believe God. If what i teach is contrary to Scriptures then show what i have said and that verse that contradicts it, Pray that the Lord Jesus opens up your understanding of the Truth.
Love you brother, but i don't think i can say any more on this subject than i have already said, and it seems to me, that you are not even listening to what i am saying, so there you have it.
Love you, and i will keep you in my prayers.
^i^
This is True, However that does not mean her spirit was in Heaven, like you are teaching. Think about that for a moment. If her spirit was in Heaven, and then Jesus took her out of Heaven to live on the miserable Earth again, how would she not be offended. What? Isn't Heaven a much better place to be? So then Jesus took her out of a better place to put her back on the Earth, which is not better at all. You do error not knowing the Truth, nor believing the Truth when it is presented to you.
Again, this does not teach that when a person dies, they immediately go to Heaven. This is what you have to see in that verse in order to hold on to the doctrine that you believe in. i too would prefer to be absent from this body, and be present with the Lord, Stephen thought also that the Lord would receive his spirit, but what happened, he fell asleep, NOT risen, not raised, but fell asleep. i prefer to die right now and be with Jesus Christ, this does not make it so. The Truth is, and is Scriptural, when i die, if i be in Christ, i (NOT MY BODY), i will sleep, and when Christ gets here to get me, i will rise and get my NEW Glorified Body, NOT the body i have now, NOT the body that is decayed, corrupted, NOT the same body that i have fornicated with, lusted with, the body is wicked and filthy, and my body will never enter into Heaven or into Hell for that matter, my body will return to dust. However if my name is not written in the Book of Life when He Returns, my body and spirit will rise together at the end of the thousand years, to fight in satans army, against the Holy City, because satan is going to try to take it over.
i too, desire to depart from this body and be with Christ, which is far better. This does not mean when a person dies they immediately go to Heaven or to Hell, that is a false doctrine, that is not taught in Scriptures.
No one in Heaven = Angels
or on earth = all human souls (spirits)
or under the earth = satan and all his demons.
That is All the living Everywhere.
DiscipleDave said
You agree, but then turn around and teach that flesh and blood will enter into Heaven. Do you not teach that when a person dies their spirit goes to be with Christ, then when Christ Returns, then their spirit is reunited with their bodies that were in the grave, then go to be with Jesus in Heaven AGAIN, how is that NOT flesh and blood in the Kingdom of Heaven? You teach the spirit and the dead rotting carcass are united whole again to be with Jesus, yes? How is that not flesh and blood inheriting the Kingdom of Heaven?
YOU teach this, not Scriptures, again, show the Scriptures which teach what you have just said here, one verse will be fine. But what do you show instead, verses that you INTERPRET to mean they are in Heaven.
Again, you do error and have not been taught the Truth in the Holy Ghost, Know you not that they did not even recognize Him. He was not in the same body as He was prior, Sure He can appear to them as a black man, He would appear to them as a woman, He could appear to them as an Angels of Light. He is the Son of God in His Glorified Body, The body He had before could feel pain, hunger, thirst, desire, AGED. The Body He had afterwards felt no pain, no hunger, no thirst, and is immortal. It was NOT the same body, How is a Glorified Body the same as a human body? You do error not understanding this Truth. Jesus when He had risen was in His Glorified Body, the same body He had when He walked in the Garden of Eden with Adam and Eve, the same body that of Melchizedek. Jesus was the burning bush that spoke with Moses. Jesus is the Son of God, is it any great thing that He can appear as whatever He wants to appear as. We too in a like manner will be able to do the same. You do error thinking that the spirit that is in you, looks like YOU. The spirit that is in you, has its own look, it existed before the Earth was ever created, why do you teach things that you know not?
Have you not been listening to what i have been saying? The Glorified Flesh, IS FLESH, it is NOT flesh from the EARTH, but is flesh made up of materials from Heaven. The flesh humans have is Earthly, made of the Earth and will return to the Earth, as it is written, from dust we came, to dust we shall return. What is made from the Earth is Earthly. Jesus was in His Glorified body, YES IT IS MOST CERTAINLY FLESH, just like when Jesus and the two Angels went to destroy Sodom and Gomorrah, Jesus and the Angels likewise were in their Glorified FLESH, Abraham called them men, why? because they looked like men, but Abraham knew that one of those MEN, was the Lord Jesus. Of coarse we rise to be with Jesus, but NOT as you say, you say we get our own flesh back, do you not, you say that the spirit and our flesh get back together and rise, you do error, and that is not the Truth. We do rise with a NEW FLESH, a NEW BODY, a GLORIFIED BODY, a body made from Heaven, not a body made from the earth. How many times can i repeat the same thing over and over again, and you still will not see.
So you teach the bodies will rise, and when do they receive the Glorified Bodies? And another thing, Hades nor that place that you say is across from Hades, is in Heaven, or even near Heaven, but is of the Earth.
There is only one way to enter into Heaven, and that is through Jesus Christ, this also applied to all those who lived prior to Him being crucified and rising from the dead. So all souls that died prior to Jesus did not go to Heaven or to Hell, but they went to Hades (Sheol) And were held there until Jesus was crucified, and went there to take the keys of Hades, So now, after Jesus when a person dies they are not held in Hades, they now sleep until once again Jesus Returns and awakes them from their sleep, but to them it will only feel like a second from the time they died till Christ is Here.
DiscipleDave said
False Doctrine.
You said to correct you if you are wrong, you are wrong. i never said they sleep in the dust of the earth, i teach what they Scriptures teach that they sleep, i never once said they sleep in the dust, nor even implied that they did. And also i have made it very clear that they are conscience and aware. Even as a person who sleeps is conscience, not so much aware, because sleep knows no time, but they are most assuredly conscious, you keep saying that i say they are not, but that is not what i say or teach.
That depends if a person dies in Christ or not in Christ. If a person dies NOT in Christ, their original body will rise again, because satan will use them as soldiers in his army for the final battle against the Holy City. But why on Earth would a Saint rise to get their original bodies back, for which is better to rise with a NEW Glorified body from Heaven, or to rise with your original body from Earth? The soul that sleeps in Christ, even as Stephen fell asleep, will rise when Christ Returns, and Stephen will rise with A NEW Body, a Glorified Flesh Body, He will NOT rise with his old human body made of the Earth. Scriptures are True.
Gen_3:19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
We are DUST, we are made of Earthly material, God created us humans from the EARTH, Human flesh is from the Earth. Glorified Flesh is NOT from the Earth, it is made up of nothing from the Earth, no earth flesh, no earth bones, no earth blood. NEW FLESH, NEW BODY is risen with our sleeping spirits that will rise to meet Jesus in the air, and we will be with Him forevermore, NOT in Human flesh like you teach, but in a NEW BODY, a Body made from Heaven, not from Earth.
KNow you not that flesh is corruption, you teach our spirits is reunited with corruption, flesh of the earth is corrupt, as filthy rags, dung, the flesh is evil and wicked, but you say we are reunited with that wicked corrupt flesh. you do error and know not the Truth concerning this matter. That which is not corrupt, does not reunite with that which is corrupted. you do error. Is it not written that the flesh and spirit are at enmity with each other, but you teach they will be reunited.
The human flesh does not rise, and there is not one verse that supports your doctrine.
And if i told you again, would you hear it this time? i am repeating myself to you over and over again. Paul never says what you say above, you convienently leave out the words "willing rather"
i feel in spirit that i have said all that i am going to say on this matter, when i repeat myself over and over again, and it is not being heard, then it is not wise to continue to repeat the same things over and over expecting a different result.
i have told you the Truth, it is not my calling to convince you of the Truth, i have told you what God has told me, what is it to me, if you do not believe God. If what i teach is contrary to Scriptures then show what i have said and that verse that contradicts it, Pray that the Lord Jesus opens up your understanding of the Truth.
Love you brother, but i don't think i can say any more on this subject than i have already said, and it seems to me, that you are not even listening to what i am saying, so there you have it.
Love you, and i will keep you in my prayers.
^i^
The king of the angels can be no other than Satan. He is the king of the evil angels and of no one else. The name Destruction is but one of his names. Do you really think that God has spirits popping in and out of the Abyss all the time? I guess it fits your love for the spectacular.
2 Thess 2 does not have the Holy Spirit in mind. One of Darby's fancies lol. It is speaking of the restraining angel.
Jesus said that He had bound Satan. All the devious arguments that are put up simply declare that Jesus was wrong. Get with it.
2 Thess 2 does not have the Holy Spirit in mind. One of Darby's fancies lol. It is speaking of the restraining angel.
Jesus said that He had bound Satan. All the devious arguments that are put up simply declare that Jesus was wrong. Get with it.
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Dear Valliant, this is your version. It makes no sense that Holy Spirit named this angel Apollyon when he would be Satan. Always Satan is doubtless called by his name. Also again you have no scripture which proof that Satan is bound except Rev. 20,1-3 and this will be in future. your view bases on your ore anybodys theories.
But we must be no worry about that. thank God he is not depend of our theories and thoughts.But i must tell you So long you could me give no clear proof from the scripture i cant agree with your theorie.
But we must be no worry about that. thank God he is not depend of our theories and thoughts.But i must tell you So long you could me give no clear proof from the scripture i cant agree with your theorie.
Many call the Truth, PURE MALARKEY, Sorry to hear about your wife. Tell me, was it Judgement Day for her yesterday? What i mean is, ONLY JUDGEMENT DAY will determine if a person is going to Heaven or to Hell. Only when Jesus comes back to the Earth is the Book of life opened up to see if your wife's name is written therein. But are you saying when she passed that she was judged YESTERDAY? That it was JUDGMENT DAY for her when she passed? Where is that written anywhere in SCriptures? There is ONLY one Day that determines where a spirit will go, and that is called JUDGMENT DAY, and that day does not happen according to the Word of God until Jesus Returns.
Now i understand, how it is comforting to you to think that she is in Heaven, But that does not change the Truth. If your wife was a servant of Jesus, she is sleeping right now, Resting, Hence the reason it has been said for eons, REST IN PEACE. If Jesus tarries for another 100 years from now, Well to your wife it would only have been seconds, because she is asleep, and sleep knows no time. She is resting, sleeping in Christ.
There is not one single solitary verse that teaches when a person dies they immediately go to Heaven, NOT ONE VERSE. Yet there are plenty of verses that plainly teach they sleep. Not to mention it is what God plainly told me as well.
Pay attention to what Mary, Lazarus sister said, she heard Jesus speak and teach, she LOVED JESUS. Now pay attention to what she said to Jesus.
Joh 11:21 Then said Martha unto Jesus, Lord, if thou hadst been here, my brother had not died.
Joh 11:22 But I know, that even now, whatsoever thou wilt ask of God, God will give it thee.
Joh 11:23 Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again.
Joh 11:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
That is what Jesus had taught them. But as long as Jesus was alive, and present with them, He can make alive whomsoever He so desired, and therefore made Lazarus alive from the dead.
But this generation teaches things contrary to Scriptures, they teach when a person dies, it is then when they RISE, only to come back with Jesus, to RISE YET AGAIN, they do error, and do not know the Truth of God. You wife according to the Word of God is sleeping, and according to the Word of God she will rise first to meet Jesus in the air if her name is found in the Book of Life when Jesus Returns on JUDGMENT DAY, and she will not have her own body, but a Glorified Body. This is what Scriptures plainly teaches, and it is TRUE.
Joh_11:11 These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep. 12 Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well. 13 Howbeit Jesus spake of his death:(Which He called SLEEP) but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep.
Act_13:36 For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell on sleep, and was laid unto his fathers, and saw corruption:
1Co_11:30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.
1Co_15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Th_4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
So am i then evil because i tell you the Truth that your wife is sleeping?
Act_7:60 And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.
1Co_15:6 After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.
1Co_15:18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.
1Th_4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
1Th_4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
2Pe_3:4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
And if i say also that your wife is asleep, why am i evil spoken of? Scriptures plainly teach they sleep. Where is one verse that teaches they are in Heaven and DO NOT SLEEP. If they are in Heaven, how are they considered ASLEEP?
If Scriptures teach they are sleeping, yet this generation teach they are immediately in Heaven or in Hell, How then are they sleeping?
If your wife is sleeping in the Lord, how is she sleeping in the Lord and Also with Him in Heaven? She is either sleeping in the Lord, or either with Him, SHE can't be doing both. Scriptures teach that she is sleeping, But this generation teaches she is NOT sleeping but is in Heaven, awake and NOT SLEEPING. Where are the Scriptures? Read all these Scriptures that you show in your post, Does any one of them, teach that when a person dies they immediately go to Heaven to be with Jesus? NO, not one of them teaches that, Sure you can interpret some of the verses to mean that they do. But my point is plain. Many Scriptures plainly teach when a person dies, they SLEEP. There is not one verse that teaches otherwise.
Does not say that spirit goes to Heaven. And i have never once said Where the spirit goes when a person dies, because the Bible does not teach that, what i teach is what the Bible teaches, when a person dies in Christ, they sleep, Whether it is in the Grave, or in the body, or in the Earth, or in some other place, i know not. But what i do know, is they are not in Heaven, but sleeping, HERE ON EARTH.
This does not teach that when a person dies they immediately go to Heaven or to Hell, This verse is referring to a future event that has not yet happened.
This does not teach that when a person dies they immediately go to Heaven or to Hell. This verse is referring to those who come out of the Great Tribulation, which is a future event and has not yet happened.
fhgfhg When Jesus said "I will destroy this Temple, and raise it in three days" He did not correct them when they assumed He was talking about the Temple in Jerusalem. Did not change the Truth of it though, despite what it sounded like. This verse is similar. At first reading it, you assume that the HOLY ONES come out of Heaven with Jesus, the Truth is, the verse does not say the Saints, the Holy One's come out of Heaven, it say they will be with Jesus when He comes. When Jesus comes what is the first thing He does? He gathers the Saints around the world that are sleeping, then Jesus and the Saints with Him, will gather the living around the world, this is what that verse is referring too. Many and i say many ASSUME that those Saints come out of Heaven, which is NOT what the verse says at all.
Does not teach that when a person dies they immediately go to Heaven or go to Hell. Is it not written that we are in His hands right now, that no man can pluck us out?
The Assembly of the Holy Ones is a future event. It is when Jesus Returns in the New City Jerusalem gathers up all the Saints, and then all the Saints are Assembled in the HOLY CITY. The entire City will be Called "The Lord is There"
i 100% agree, the difference is, this generation teaches they come from Heaven. But the Truth is this is a reference to the Saints that Jesus will gather with Him, going around the World Rapturing more Saints with the Saints that He has already risen from those sleeping in Christ.
What is it to me, if you think Scriptures is PURE MALARKEY?
1Th_4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
If then i say the same exact thing that Jesus Himself taught, how is that PURE MALARKEY? i will tell you why it is PURE MALARKEY to this generation, because the Truth has no place in them, they would much rather believe a doctrine that is not Scriptural, then to believe the Scriptures themselves. They would much rather interpret Scriptures themselves, not realizing that interpretations belong ONLY to GOD, as does the Scriptures teach. But no not this generation, instead of merely believing the Word of God and what it plainly teaches, they have to interpret it, as if it were in men to do so. This generation would much rather keep a hold of false doctrines, then to have to Change what they have believed and were taught, their whole entire lives. Do not believe what men teach and their doctrines, BELIEVE the Word of God and what it says and teaches, leave your own interpretations out of it.
What is it to me if you think Scriptures, which plainly teach they are asleep, are stupid? And of course i would not council a person who is grieving the death of a Loved One, unless they address it specifically to me, even as you have done with your post, to me.
Here is the Truth, and there is no Scriptures that is contrary to this Truth.
If i die, i will sleep, When Judgment Day happens, that is the Day Christ appears to gather His Saints, the Books will be opened. And if my name is found in the Book of Life, i will then rise and receive my Glorified Body (Flesh from Heaven) and will meet Jesus in the air, and i being a Saint will travel around the World with other Saints, gathering up all the others from the four corners of the Earth. This is True, and there is no Scriptures at all that is contrary to what i have just said, NOT ONE VERSE. Why? Because it is of the TRUTH and is what Scriptures teach, and is also what God has told me Himself.
Here is another Truth. There is NO SCRIPTURES that teach when a person dies they immediately are judged and sent to Heaven or to Hell at the time of death. NOT ONE SCRIPTURE teaches that doctrine. MEN teach that, mostly to comfort those who have lost Loved ones during their grieving stage.
This generation is quick to say and teach that when a person dies they immediately go to Heaven. This is a common statement that they say. But what you do not hear from these same people is this statement "When a person dies they immediately go to Hell" Why is that? Because it is comforting to believe they go to Heaven. But if you googled "Is there people in Hell right now?" you will find tons of websites that show Scriptures that teach NO ONE is in Hell right now, but only After the Great White Throne Judgment are people cast into Hell. So tell me, all of you that believe the false doctrine that when a person dies they immediately are judged and go to Heaven, how can they immediately be judged and go to Hell, which they are not going to be cast into until After the Great White Throne Judgment? How are they cast there immediately at the time of death? If the wicked die, and are not thrown into Hell at the time of death, where are they? They too are asleep, they are NOT sleeping in Christ though.
Now, VCO, if you want sugar coated truth, (milk) then continue to believe your wife is in Heaven, awake and well, and NOT SLEEPING, NOT resting, but enjoying the Kingdom of Heaven, laughing, playing, eating, singing, and dancing, but NOT SLEEPING, then do so if it helps your grieving process. But if you want meat of the Word, then the Truth is your wife if she is in Christ, is resting, sleeping, asleep, waiting for the moment Jesus Christ appears in the sky, to get her. If Jesus comes tomorrow, or a thousand years from now, to your wife, it will have only been a minute since the time she passed till His Return, because sleep knows no time. To her it will only be seconds before Christ is here to get her.
Again, sorry about your loss.
^i^ responding to post # 1600
Now i understand, how it is comforting to you to think that she is in Heaven, But that does not change the Truth. If your wife was a servant of Jesus, she is sleeping right now, Resting, Hence the reason it has been said for eons, REST IN PEACE. If Jesus tarries for another 100 years from now, Well to your wife it would only have been seconds, because she is asleep, and sleep knows no time. She is resting, sleeping in Christ.
There is not one single solitary verse that teaches when a person dies they immediately go to Heaven, NOT ONE VERSE. Yet there are plenty of verses that plainly teach they sleep. Not to mention it is what God plainly told me as well.
Pay attention to what Mary, Lazarus sister said, she heard Jesus speak and teach, she LOVED JESUS. Now pay attention to what she said to Jesus.
Joh 11:21 Then said Martha unto Jesus, Lord, if thou hadst been here, my brother had not died.
Joh 11:22 But I know, that even now, whatsoever thou wilt ask of God, God will give it thee.
Joh 11:23 Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again.
Joh 11:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
That is what Jesus had taught them. But as long as Jesus was alive, and present with them, He can make alive whomsoever He so desired, and therefore made Lazarus alive from the dead.
But this generation teaches things contrary to Scriptures, they teach when a person dies, it is then when they RISE, only to come back with Jesus, to RISE YET AGAIN, they do error, and do not know the Truth of God. You wife according to the Word of God is sleeping, and according to the Word of God she will rise first to meet Jesus in the air if her name is found in the Book of Life when Jesus Returns on JUDGMENT DAY, and she will not have her own body, but a Glorified Body. This is what Scriptures plainly teaches, and it is TRUE.
Joh_11:11 These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep. 12 Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well. 13 Howbeit Jesus spake of his death:(Which He called SLEEP) but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep.
Act_13:36 For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell on sleep, and was laid unto his fathers, and saw corruption:
1Co_11:30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.
1Co_15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Th_4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
So am i then evil because i tell you the Truth that your wife is sleeping?
Act_7:60 And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.
1Co_15:6 After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.
1Co_15:18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.
1Th_4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
1Th_4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
2Pe_3:4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
And if i say also that your wife is asleep, why am i evil spoken of? Scriptures plainly teach they sleep. Where is one verse that teaches they are in Heaven and DO NOT SLEEP. If they are in Heaven, how are they considered ASLEEP?
If Scriptures teach they are sleeping, yet this generation teach they are immediately in Heaven or in Hell, How then are they sleeping?
If your wife is sleeping in the Lord, how is she sleeping in the Lord and Also with Him in Heaven? She is either sleeping in the Lord, or either with Him, SHE can't be doing both. Scriptures teach that she is sleeping, But this generation teaches she is NOT sleeping but is in Heaven, awake and NOT SLEEPING. Where are the Scriptures? Read all these Scriptures that you show in your post, Does any one of them, teach that when a person dies they immediately go to Heaven to be with Jesus? NO, not one of them teaches that, Sure you can interpret some of the verses to mean that they do. But my point is plain. Many Scriptures plainly teach when a person dies, they SLEEP. There is not one verse that teaches otherwise.
Does not say that spirit goes to Heaven. And i have never once said Where the spirit goes when a person dies, because the Bible does not teach that, what i teach is what the Bible teaches, when a person dies in Christ, they sleep, Whether it is in the Grave, or in the body, or in the Earth, or in some other place, i know not. But what i do know, is they are not in Heaven, but sleeping, HERE ON EARTH.
This does not teach that when a person dies they immediately go to Heaven or to Hell, This verse is referring to a future event that has not yet happened.
This does not teach that when a person dies they immediately go to Heaven or to Hell. This verse is referring to those who come out of the Great Tribulation, which is a future event and has not yet happened.
fhgfhg When Jesus said "I will destroy this Temple, and raise it in three days" He did not correct them when they assumed He was talking about the Temple in Jerusalem. Did not change the Truth of it though, despite what it sounded like. This verse is similar. At first reading it, you assume that the HOLY ONES come out of Heaven with Jesus, the Truth is, the verse does not say the Saints, the Holy One's come out of Heaven, it say they will be with Jesus when He comes. When Jesus comes what is the first thing He does? He gathers the Saints around the world that are sleeping, then Jesus and the Saints with Him, will gather the living around the world, this is what that verse is referring too. Many and i say many ASSUME that those Saints come out of Heaven, which is NOT what the verse says at all.
Does not teach that when a person dies they immediately go to Heaven or go to Hell. Is it not written that we are in His hands right now, that no man can pluck us out?
The Assembly of the Holy Ones is a future event. It is when Jesus Returns in the New City Jerusalem gathers up all the Saints, and then all the Saints are Assembled in the HOLY CITY. The entire City will be Called "The Lord is There"
i 100% agree, the difference is, this generation teaches they come from Heaven. But the Truth is this is a reference to the Saints that Jesus will gather with Him, going around the World Rapturing more Saints with the Saints that He has already risen from those sleeping in Christ.
What is it to me, if you think Scriptures is PURE MALARKEY?
1Th_4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
If then i say the same exact thing that Jesus Himself taught, how is that PURE MALARKEY? i will tell you why it is PURE MALARKEY to this generation, because the Truth has no place in them, they would much rather believe a doctrine that is not Scriptural, then to believe the Scriptures themselves. They would much rather interpret Scriptures themselves, not realizing that interpretations belong ONLY to GOD, as does the Scriptures teach. But no not this generation, instead of merely believing the Word of God and what it plainly teaches, they have to interpret it, as if it were in men to do so. This generation would much rather keep a hold of false doctrines, then to have to Change what they have believed and were taught, their whole entire lives. Do not believe what men teach and their doctrines, BELIEVE the Word of God and what it says and teaches, leave your own interpretations out of it.
What is it to me if you think Scriptures, which plainly teach they are asleep, are stupid? And of course i would not council a person who is grieving the death of a Loved One, unless they address it specifically to me, even as you have done with your post, to me.
Here is the Truth, and there is no Scriptures that is contrary to this Truth.
If i die, i will sleep, When Judgment Day happens, that is the Day Christ appears to gather His Saints, the Books will be opened. And if my name is found in the Book of Life, i will then rise and receive my Glorified Body (Flesh from Heaven) and will meet Jesus in the air, and i being a Saint will travel around the World with other Saints, gathering up all the others from the four corners of the Earth. This is True, and there is no Scriptures at all that is contrary to what i have just said, NOT ONE VERSE. Why? Because it is of the TRUTH and is what Scriptures teach, and is also what God has told me Himself.
Here is another Truth. There is NO SCRIPTURES that teach when a person dies they immediately are judged and sent to Heaven or to Hell at the time of death. NOT ONE SCRIPTURE teaches that doctrine. MEN teach that, mostly to comfort those who have lost Loved ones during their grieving stage.
This generation is quick to say and teach that when a person dies they immediately go to Heaven. This is a common statement that they say. But what you do not hear from these same people is this statement "When a person dies they immediately go to Hell" Why is that? Because it is comforting to believe they go to Heaven. But if you googled "Is there people in Hell right now?" you will find tons of websites that show Scriptures that teach NO ONE is in Hell right now, but only After the Great White Throne Judgment are people cast into Hell. So tell me, all of you that believe the false doctrine that when a person dies they immediately are judged and go to Heaven, how can they immediately be judged and go to Hell, which they are not going to be cast into until After the Great White Throne Judgment? How are they cast there immediately at the time of death? If the wicked die, and are not thrown into Hell at the time of death, where are they? They too are asleep, they are NOT sleeping in Christ though.
Now, VCO, if you want sugar coated truth, (milk) then continue to believe your wife is in Heaven, awake and well, and NOT SLEEPING, NOT resting, but enjoying the Kingdom of Heaven, laughing, playing, eating, singing, and dancing, but NOT SLEEPING, then do so if it helps your grieving process. But if you want meat of the Word, then the Truth is your wife if she is in Christ, is resting, sleeping, asleep, waiting for the moment Jesus Christ appears in the sky, to get her. If Jesus comes tomorrow, or a thousand years from now, to your wife, it will have only been a minute since the time she passed till His Return, because sleep knows no time. To her it will only be seconds before Christ is here to get her.
Again, sorry about your loss.
^i^ responding to post # 1600
Dave you nauseate me. I tell you again, PLEASE DO NOT COUNSEL ANYONE GRIEVING WITH YOUR GARBAGE OPINIONS ABOUT SLEEPING IN THE GRAVE. I placed my wife's ashes in the Veterans Wall today, and I guarantee you, neither her soul, nor her spirit were in those ashes.
Have you NEVER heard of "Euphenisms" for died.
AWAKEN to the hurt and harm you are doing.
eu·phe·mism
ˈyo͞ofəˌmizəm
noun
[COLOR=#878787 !important]plural noun: euphemisms[/COLOR]
[h=3]Euphemism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
[/h]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euphemism
Wikipedia
A euphemism is a generally innocuous word or expression used in place of one that may be found offensive or suggest something unpleasant.
www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/euphemism
Merriam‑Webster
a mild or pleasant word or phrase that is used instead of one that is unpleasant or offensive.
Acts 7:60 (NRSV)
[SUP]60 [/SUP] Then he knelt down and cried out in a loud voice, "Lord, do not hold this sin against them." When he had said this, he died.
Acts 7:60 (GW)
[SUP]60 [/SUP] Then he knelt down and shouted, “Lord, don't hold this sin against them.” After he had said this, he died.
Acts 7:60 (NET)
[SUP]60 [/SUP] Then he fell to his knees and cried out with a loud voice, "Lord, do not hold this sin against them!" When he had said this, he died.
Acts 7:60 (ISV)
[SUP]60 [/SUP] Then he knelt down and cried out with a loud voice, "Lord, don't hold this sin against them!" When he had said this, he died.
Acts 7:60 (NLT)
[SUP]60 [/SUP] He fell to his knees, shouting, “Lord, don’t charge them with this sin!” And with that, he died.
YOU cause deep emotion hurt to anyone who is grieving when you tell your twisted theories about sleeping in the grave to one who is grieving. THAT IS THE OPPOSITE OF CHRISTIAN LOVE.
The human spirits and souls of the beheaded Tribulation Saints, appear in heaven under the altar, BECAUSE THEY ARE THERE TO COME THROUGH THE BLOOD OF THE LAMB WASHING THEIR ROBES WHITE, WHICH THE HIGH PRIEST ALWAYS POURED THE LAMB'S BLOOD OUT AT THE BASE OF THE ALTAR. (LOOK IT UP.)
AND THEY ARE NOT SLEEPING IN THE GRAVE, THEY ARE CRYING OUT WITH A LOUD VOICE, AS THEY ARE GIVEN WHITE ROBES, AND ARE PRESENT IN HEAVEN. PLUS THERE ARE A MULTITUDE OF US THERE AS THE MARTYRED TRIBULATION SAINTS ARRIVES, AND NONE OF US ARE SLEEPING IN THE GRAVE EITHER.
Revelation 7:9-10 (NASB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could count, from every nation and all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, and palm branches were in their hands;
[SUP]10 [/SUP] and they cry out with a loud voice, [NOT SLEEPING IN THE GRAVE] saying, "Salvation to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb."
Revelation 7:13-14 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, "These who are clothed in the white robes, who are they, and where have they come from?"
[SUP]14 [/SUP] I said to him, "My lord, you know." And he said to me, "These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, [NOT SLEEPING IN THE GRAVE] and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
Revelation 6:9-11 (NASB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] When the Lamb broke the fifth seal, I saw underneath the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God, and because of the testimony which they had maintained;
[SUP]10 [/SUP] and they cried out with a loud voice[NOT SLEEPING IN THE GRAVE] saying, "How long, O Lord, holy and true, will You refrain from judging and avenging our blood on those who dwell on the earth?"
[SUP]11 [/SUP] And there was given to each of them a white robe; and they were told that they should rest for a little while longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brethren who were to be killed even as they had been, would be completed also.
REPENT, YOU HAVE HURT ENOUGH PEOPLE WITH YOUR TWISTED THEORIES!
Have you NEVER heard of "Euphenisms" for died.
AWAKEN to the hurt and harm you are doing.
eu·phe·mism
ˈyo͞ofəˌmizəm
noun
[COLOR=#878787 !important]plural noun: euphemisms[/COLOR]
- a mild or indirect word or expression substituted for one considered to be too harsh or blunt when referring to something unpleasant or embarrassing.
[h=3]Euphemism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Wikipedia
A euphemism is a generally innocuous word or expression used in place of one that may be found offensive or suggest something unpleasant.
www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/euphemism
Merriam‑Webster
a mild or pleasant word or phrase that is used instead of one that is unpleasant or offensive.
Acts 7:60 (NRSV)
[SUP]60 [/SUP] Then he knelt down and cried out in a loud voice, "Lord, do not hold this sin against them." When he had said this, he died.
Acts 7:60 (GW)
[SUP]60 [/SUP] Then he knelt down and shouted, “Lord, don't hold this sin against them.” After he had said this, he died.
Acts 7:60 (NET)
[SUP]60 [/SUP] Then he fell to his knees and cried out with a loud voice, "Lord, do not hold this sin against them!" When he had said this, he died.
Acts 7:60 (ISV)
[SUP]60 [/SUP] Then he knelt down and cried out with a loud voice, "Lord, don't hold this sin against them!" When he had said this, he died.
Acts 7:60 (NLT)
[SUP]60 [/SUP] He fell to his knees, shouting, “Lord, don’t charge them with this sin!” And with that, he died.
YOU cause deep emotion hurt to anyone who is grieving when you tell your twisted theories about sleeping in the grave to one who is grieving. THAT IS THE OPPOSITE OF CHRISTIAN LOVE.
The human spirits and souls of the beheaded Tribulation Saints, appear in heaven under the altar, BECAUSE THEY ARE THERE TO COME THROUGH THE BLOOD OF THE LAMB WASHING THEIR ROBES WHITE, WHICH THE HIGH PRIEST ALWAYS POURED THE LAMB'S BLOOD OUT AT THE BASE OF THE ALTAR. (LOOK IT UP.)
AND THEY ARE NOT SLEEPING IN THE GRAVE, THEY ARE CRYING OUT WITH A LOUD VOICE, AS THEY ARE GIVEN WHITE ROBES, AND ARE PRESENT IN HEAVEN. PLUS THERE ARE A MULTITUDE OF US THERE AS THE MARTYRED TRIBULATION SAINTS ARRIVES, AND NONE OF US ARE SLEEPING IN THE GRAVE EITHER.
Revelation 7:9-10 (NASB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could count, from every nation and all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, and palm branches were in their hands;
[SUP]10 [/SUP] and they cry out with a loud voice, [NOT SLEEPING IN THE GRAVE] saying, "Salvation to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb."
Revelation 7:13-14 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, "These who are clothed in the white robes, who are they, and where have they come from?"
[SUP]14 [/SUP] I said to him, "My lord, you know." And he said to me, "These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, [NOT SLEEPING IN THE GRAVE] and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
Revelation 6:9-11 (NASB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] When the Lamb broke the fifth seal, I saw underneath the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God, and because of the testimony which they had maintained;
[SUP]10 [/SUP] and they cried out with a loud voice[NOT SLEEPING IN THE GRAVE] saying, "How long, O Lord, holy and true, will You refrain from judging and avenging our blood on those who dwell on the earth?"
[SUP]11 [/SUP] And there was given to each of them a white robe; and they were told that they should rest for a little while longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brethren who were to be killed even as they had been, would be completed also.
REPENT, YOU HAVE HURT ENOUGH PEOPLE WITH YOUR TWISTED THEORIES!
P
Dave you nauseate me. I tell you again, PLEASE DO NOT COUNSEL ANYONE GRIEVING WITH YOUR GARBAGE OPINIONS ABOUT SLEEPING IN THE GRAVE. I placed my wife's ashes in the Veterans Wall today, and I guarantee you, neither her soul, nor her spirit were in those ashes.
Have you NEVER heard of "Euphenisms" for died.
AWAKEN to the hurt and harm you are doing.
[/FONT][/COLOR]eu·phe·mism
ˈyo͞ofəˌmizəm
noun
[COLOR=#878787 !important]plural noun: euphemisms[/COLOR]
Euphemism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euphemism
Wikipedia
A euphemism is a generally innocuous word or expression used in place of one that may be found offensive or suggest something unpleasant.
www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/euphemism
Merriam‑Webster
a mild or pleasant word or phrase that is used instead of one that is unpleasant or offensive.
Acts 7:60 (NRSV)
[SUP]60 [/SUP] Then he knelt down and cried out in a loud voice, "Lord, do not hold this sin against them." When he had said this, he died.
Acts 7:60 (GW)
[SUP]60 [/SUP] Then he knelt down and shouted, “Lord, don't hold this sin against them.” After he had said this, he died.
Acts 7:60 (NET)
[SUP]60 [/SUP] Then he fell to his knees and cried out with a loud voice, "Lord, do not hold this sin against them!" When he had said this, he died.
Acts 7:60 (ISV)
[SUP]60 [/SUP] Then he knelt down and cried out with a loud voice, "Lord, don't hold this sin against them!" When he had said this, he died.
Acts 7:60 (NLT)
[SUP]60 [/SUP] He fell to his knees, shouting, “Lord, don’t charge them with this sin!” And with that, he died.
YOU cause deep emotion hurt to anyone who is grieving when you tell your twisted theories about sleeping in the grave to one who is grieving. THAT IS THE OPPOSITE OF CHRISTIAN LOVE.
The human spirits and souls of the beheaded Tribulation Saints, appear in heaven under the altar, BECAUSE THEY ARE THERE TO COME THROUGH THE BLOOD OF THE LAMB WASHING THEIR ROBES WHITE, WHICH THE HIGH PRIEST ALWAYS POURED THE LAMB'S BLOOD OUT AT THE BASE OF THE ALTAR. (LOOK IT UP.)
AND THEY ARE NOT SLEEPING IN THE GRAVE, THEY ARE CRYING OUT WITH A LOUD VOICE, AS THEY ARE GIVEN WHITE ROBES, AND ARE PRESENT IN HEAVEN. PLUS THERE ARE A MULTITUDE OF US THERE AS THE MARTYRED TRIBULATION SAINTS ARRIVES, AND NONE OF US ARE SLEEPING IN THE GRAVE EITHER.
Revelation 7:9-10 (NASB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could count, from every nation and all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, and palm branches were in their hands;
[SUP]10 [/SUP] and they cry out with a loud voice, [NOT SLEEPING IN THE GRAVE] saying, "Salvation to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb."
Revelation 7:13-14 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, "These who are clothed in the white robes, who are they, and where have they come from?"
[SUP]14 [/SUP] I said to him, "My lord, you know." And he said to me, "These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, [NOT SLEEPING IN THE GRAVE] and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
Revelation 6:9-11 (NASB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] When the Lamb broke the fifth seal, I saw underneath the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God, and because of the testimony which they had maintained;
[SUP]10 [/SUP] and they cried out with a loud voice[NOT SLEEPING IN THE GRAVE] saying, "How long, O Lord, holy and true, will You refrain from judging and avenging our blood on those who dwell on the earth?"
[SUP]11 [/SUP] And there was given to each of them a white robe; and they were told that they should rest for a little while longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brethren who were to be killed even as they had been, would be completed also.
REPENT, YOU HAVE HURT ENOUGH PEOPLE WITH YOUR TWISTED THEORIES!
Have you NEVER heard of "Euphenisms" for died.
AWAKEN to the hurt and harm you are doing.
[/FONT][/COLOR]eu·phe·mism
ˈyo͞ofəˌmizəm
noun
[COLOR=#878787 !important]plural noun: euphemisms[/COLOR]
- a mild or indirect word or expression substituted for one considered to be too harsh or blunt when referring to something unpleasant or embarrassing.
Euphemism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euphemism
Wikipedia
A euphemism is a generally innocuous word or expression used in place of one that may be found offensive or suggest something unpleasant.
www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/euphemism
Merriam‑Webster
a mild or pleasant word or phrase that is used instead of one that is unpleasant or offensive.
Acts 7:60 (NRSV)
[SUP]60 [/SUP] Then he knelt down and cried out in a loud voice, "Lord, do not hold this sin against them." When he had said this, he died.
Acts 7:60 (GW)
[SUP]60 [/SUP] Then he knelt down and shouted, “Lord, don't hold this sin against them.” After he had said this, he died.
Acts 7:60 (NET)
[SUP]60 [/SUP] Then he fell to his knees and cried out with a loud voice, "Lord, do not hold this sin against them!" When he had said this, he died.
Acts 7:60 (ISV)
[SUP]60 [/SUP] Then he knelt down and cried out with a loud voice, "Lord, don't hold this sin against them!" When he had said this, he died.
Acts 7:60 (NLT)
[SUP]60 [/SUP] He fell to his knees, shouting, “Lord, don’t charge them with this sin!” And with that, he died.
YOU cause deep emotion hurt to anyone who is grieving when you tell your twisted theories about sleeping in the grave to one who is grieving. THAT IS THE OPPOSITE OF CHRISTIAN LOVE.
The human spirits and souls of the beheaded Tribulation Saints, appear in heaven under the altar, BECAUSE THEY ARE THERE TO COME THROUGH THE BLOOD OF THE LAMB WASHING THEIR ROBES WHITE, WHICH THE HIGH PRIEST ALWAYS POURED THE LAMB'S BLOOD OUT AT THE BASE OF THE ALTAR. (LOOK IT UP.)
AND THEY ARE NOT SLEEPING IN THE GRAVE, THEY ARE CRYING OUT WITH A LOUD VOICE, AS THEY ARE GIVEN WHITE ROBES, AND ARE PRESENT IN HEAVEN. PLUS THERE ARE A MULTITUDE OF US THERE AS THE MARTYRED TRIBULATION SAINTS ARRIVES, AND NONE OF US ARE SLEEPING IN THE GRAVE EITHER.
Revelation 7:9-10 (NASB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could count, from every nation and all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, and palm branches were in their hands;
[SUP]10 [/SUP] and they cry out with a loud voice, [NOT SLEEPING IN THE GRAVE] saying, "Salvation to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb."
Revelation 7:13-14 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, "These who are clothed in the white robes, who are they, and where have they come from?"
[SUP]14 [/SUP] I said to him, "My lord, you know." And he said to me, "These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, [NOT SLEEPING IN THE GRAVE] and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
Revelation 6:9-11 (NASB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] When the Lamb broke the fifth seal, I saw underneath the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God, and because of the testimony which they had maintained;
[SUP]10 [/SUP] and they cried out with a loud voice[NOT SLEEPING IN THE GRAVE] saying, "How long, O Lord, holy and true, will You refrain from judging and avenging our blood on those who dwell on the earth?"
[SUP]11 [/SUP] And there was given to each of them a white robe; and they were told that they should rest for a little while longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brethren who were to be killed even as they had been, would be completed also.
REPENT, YOU HAVE HURT ENOUGH PEOPLE WITH YOUR TWISTED THEORIES!
So sorry for your loss VCO.
May grace and peace be multiplied to you.
Lord comfort him,and shine your love down upon him.
Yes, but then its clear, Rev.9.11talkes about an Angel named Apollyon. This is not Satan. And you take it out from the context. Who then is what Rev.9,1-10 describes. What you are doing is isegese (putting your meaning in the text) and not exegese (putting your meaning out of the text). Sorry to day that.
Sometimes he is called Satan, sometimes he is called the Devil, sometimes he is called the drakon, so you are clearly WRONG. Thus it is no surprise that he is called Abaddon (destruction). The Scriptures know of no other king of the abyss who is over evil spirits but Satan. And to suggest that God is continually popping spirits in and out of the Abyss is clearly ridiculous.
Mat 12:28-29 But if I by the Spirit of God cast out devils, then is the kingdom of God come upon you. Or how can one enter into the house of the strong man, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man
? and then he will spoil his house.
Mar 3:26-27
And if Satan hath risen up against himself, and is divided, he cannot stand, but hath an end. But no one can enter into the house of the strong man, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man; and then he will spoil his house.
The statement is quite clear. Jesus had BOUND Satan. And that binding continued.
I realise that you will all twist the Scriptures to fit your ideas. That is a forte of the people on this site. But no honest person will deny that JESUS BOUND SATAN from near the beginning of His ministry.
.
lol I have given you the Scripture proof but you will dodge it somehow.
Mat 12:28-29 But if I by the Spirit of God cast out devils, then is the kingdom of God come upon you. Or how can one enter into the house of the strong man, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man
? and then he will spoil his house.
Mar 3:26-27
And if Satan hath risen up against himself, and is divided, he cannot stand, but hath an end. But no one can enter into the house of the strong man, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man; and then he will spoil his house.
The statement is quite clear. Jesus had BOUND Satan. And that binding continued.
I realise that you will all twist the Scriptures to fit your ideas. That is a forte of the people on this site. But no honest person will deny that JESUS BOUND SATAN from near the beginning of His ministry.
.
lol I have given you the Scripture proof but you will dodge it somehow.
Well, please let us first finnish Rev. 9.11
if you are right, then what is with 9.1-11? Because this belongs together!! you cant pic up a verse out of the context to supply your theorie. And only because nowhere else this king Apollyon is mentioned must lead to the conclusion this is Satan. Also we find no scripture proof that Satan is King over the Abyss.
if you are right, then what is with 9.1-11? Because this belongs together!! you cant pic up a verse out of the context to supply your theorie. And only because nowhere else this king Apollyon is mentioned must lead to the conclusion this is Satan. Also we find no scripture proof that Satan is King over the Abyss.
Hello people I truly think that one from ways to know God interpret bible with bible as much is possible but weary carefully looking in context without because same word not nesaccery means same situation or I wrong? [COLOR=#333333 !important]17 [/COLOR]And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name.
18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.
18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.