I bet you can't explain this!

[Brother_J_BELGIUM]

What I meant was, your pictures don't prove that Rome with her pagan system is not Mystery Babylon. I will stick with the proof of scripture myself:

* The seven heads are seven hills upon which the woman sits

Rome was literally built on and is famous for her seven hills. The Vatican with her pseudo Christian system is her headquarters.

* The woman you saw is that great city that rules over the kings of the earth.

At the time that John was receiving this information from the angel, Rome was that city that ruled over the kings of the earth. The people of whom it says are throwing dust on their heads are all of the worlds merchants, which does nothing to detract from the woman as being Rome and her pagan system.

* woman was dressed in purple and scarlet ....

Purple and scarlet are the exact colors of the RCC's liturgy, which God put into his word as another clue pointing us to who the woman, Mystery Babylon is.

She was glittering with Gold .....

Scripture states that the kings of the earth will commit adultery with the woman and the inhabitants of the earth will be intoxicated with the wine of her adulteries. Since it is obviously not speaking of literal adultery, then it would be figurative which is defined as " to be unfaithful to Christ, while posing as His true follower." By the RCC proclaiming to be the true church of Christ and at the same time engaging in the practices and rituals that stemmed from the Babylonian mystery religions, the RCC meets all of the criteria perfectly.

I personally believe that one of the future popes is going to play the part of the second beast, the false prophet. If you think that people are devoted to the papacy now, just wait until that future pope begins to perform miracles, signs and wonders, even causing fire to come down out of heaven in full view of the inhabitants of the earth. Once he begins to do this all the rest of the religious sects will be sucked into that last day religious system of Mystery Babylon. And since the false prophet will be performing those miraculous signs on behalf of the antichrist, he will deceive all of those devout followers into believe the claim that the first beast as being God. It will be one of Satan's greatest deceptions. The only ones who will not buy into this deception will be the woman/Israel who will be cared for out in the wilderness for that last 3 1/2 years and the great tribulation saints.

Ok I partly agree with what you say (the RCC has false and pagan teachings) and I can understand that when anyone reads Revelation they see the RCC as Mystery Babylon.

But there are some problems with this theory. First of all, it says "the seven heads are seven hills upon which the woman sitteth" and then it goes on to say "AND they are also seven kings, five of them have fallen...". These are not literal hills, how can something be both a literal hill and at the same time refer to a king? The Antichrist is both called the beast (kingdom, mountain) and the eighth king. Every hill represents a kingdom (the Bible uses this kind of language a lot: "I will make the hills (kingdoms) fall down before me" and those kind of things) and it also represents a king.

So if Rome or Vatican city is the place where these seven "hills" are, so must their kings also be (the seven kingdoms). Isn't it strange that all but one of the seven kingdoms (as commonly thought) are all centered in the center of the Middle East and not Europe? Cause that's where this harlot sits, where these former kingdoms/kings shall re-arise. Both the Egyptian, the Assyrian, the Babylonian, the Persian, the Grecian and the Islamic empire are all centered in the Middle East and all of a sudden the seventh moves to an entirely different area than the Middle East which is such a foreign concept to the Bible.

Yes, the colors of the RCC are red and purple, but so are the colors of the inside walls of the Kaaba in Mecca.
Yes, the RCC uses a golden cup etcetera, but have you looked at that massive golden door/gate at the entrance of the Kaaba?
They both kinda fit this description, so we need to look at all of the characteristics of this harlot woman.

Yes, the RCC claims to be the real church and followers of Christ and of God, but so do the Muslims claim that they worship the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. They think they have the real faith, and the RCC thinks they have the real church. They are both very similar in their beliefs.


The Scripture that should take all doubts away is Daniel 2:40 I believe:

And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron: forasmuch as iron breaketh in pieces and subdueth all things: and as iron that breaketh all these, shall it break in pieces and bruise.

When did the Roman empire ever break in pieces the other three kingdoms (Babylonian, Persian, Grecian kingdom). Because whatever the fourth kingdom is, it breaks in pieces and bruise these three previous kingdoms (metals). So Rome conquered the Persian kingdom as well? I only know of one kingdom that has conquered these kingdoms and areas and it sure isn't the Roman empire.

I do agree with you on the fact that some future pope might be the false prophet who will side with the Muslims and their messiah, the Mahdi (and probably the Islamic version of 'Jesus', Issa).

 

[Reborn]

Hello Reborn,

Who Mystery Babylon, that city that ruled over the kings of the earth and who sits on seven hills is, can be deduced right from Revelation 17 & 18 and then by comparing the RCC to the details of scripture. It doesn't require going outside of Revelation to figure out who this woman is. See post #33

Thank you for the response.
IMO, the entire book of Revelation sets up who she is, and not just 17 & 18.

Like l said, l beieve it's pretty simple.
We make it complicated.

 

[cmarieh]

What if it's none of the above?
Out of curiosity, why do people take pieces from other puzzles ( life, history, RCC, Mecca, etc) and bend them in order to try to make them fit in the Bible?

The answer is in the Bible itself and it's a simple one.
Why wouldn't it be?

I'm pretty sure God doesn't expect us to play the guessing game......He just wants us to take the pieces He's already handed to us ( the books of the Bible) and complete the puzzle.

Amen!!! The answer is actually really simple and not one very many will want to hear because they of course cannot be proven wrong.So they manipulate every situation to prove themselves right and can never admit when they are wrong. They often manipulate scriptures to provide an excuse for their behavior.

I find it really interesting when you are listening to someone preach that gossip and judging others is wrong which it is, but the next thing you find is that not too long after that you see them going right back to that same behavior then when they are called on it they finds some sort of excuse for it. Like if a man cheats on his wife then finds scripture to say that she was not living up to what the Bible instructs the wife to do so the husband cheats, it's pathetic how far people go to prove themselves right.

The bible is a two edged sword and it is a very encouraging book, but it also is used to convict us of our wrongdoing. I had someone tell me once that if I don't get convicted after reading the Bible I am in the wrong somewhere in my relationship with God

 

[Ahwatukee]

Thank you for the response.
IMO, the entire book of Revelation sets up who she is, and not just 17 & 18.

Like l said, l beieve it's pretty simple.
We make it complicated.

Consider the following regarding the book of Revelation:

"The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place."

The word "Apokalupsis" translated as "Revelation" is defined as something that is being made known because it was previously veiled or covered, which means that these events in Revelation were previously or partially unknown and are here being made known. The majority of the information regarding Mystery Babylon is contained right in the book of Revelation itself, with some exceptions. You continue to say that it is pretty simple, but you have yet to proclaim anything regarding who the woman is of Revelation 17 & 18. Furthermore, I have yet to find anything in the OT that would lend to any understanding of who Mystery Babylon of Revelation is.

 

[Brother_J_BELGIUM]

Consider the following regarding the book of Revelation:

"The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place."

The word "Apokalupsis" translated as "Revelation" is defined as something that is being made known because it was previously veiled or covered, which means that these events in Revelation were previously or partially unknown and are here being made known. The majority of the information regarding Mystery Babylon is contained right in the book of Revelation itself, with some exceptions. You continue to say that it is pretty simple, but you have yet to proclaim anything regarding who the woman is of Revelation 17 & 18. Furthermore, I have yet to find anything in the OT that would lend to any understanding of who Mystery Babylon of Revelation is.

Isaiah 13 speaks of Babylon being destroyed on the day of the Lord... It even says that the Arab will no longer pitch tent there.

 

[Bowman]

You been reading too much Augustine?

Scripture interprets itself...

 

[Bowman]

Then why does the Bible say in Isaiah 13 that the Arab will no longer pitch tent there in Babylon? They still do to this very day...

The city of man will continue to exist until Judgment Day...

 

[Brother_J_BELGIUM]

The city of man will continue to exist until Judgment Day...

I agree.....

 

[JonahLynx]

Well if it's symbolic then this question comes to mind... When Mecca is destroyed, many Muslims will see the destruction of that city and throw dust on their heads as a sign of grief, this is an Islamic/Middle Eastern practice. But when Rome or the Vatican would be destroyed, no one would cast dust on their heads. That's why I have a problem with the interpretation to that text that says Mystery Babylon is Vatican City.

If it's symbolic then casting dust on your head would just be depicting dismay and regret. I don't think it tells you anything about location, notwithstanding there are Catholics in the middle east.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Isaiah 13 speaks of Babylon being destroyed on the day of the Lord... It even says that the Arab will no longer pitch tent there.

Hi Rbother_J

The reason that this city is called "Mystery Babylon" is because it is not speaking about the actual city of Babylon. The reference is that the mystery religions beliefs, practices and rituals initiating from original Babylon, such as Queen of Heaven and mother and son worship, as well as the worship of many gods, etc., can be found within the RCC. Even the Eucharist and transubstantiation resembles Mithraism more than it does the elements of the bread and wine. Furthermore, I didn't say that there was nothing at all mentioned in the OT, for it is obvious that some are mentioned briefly, such as the event of the sixth seal, but Revelation has a detailed account of these events.

 

[Ahwatukee]

But there are some problems with this theory. First of all, it says "the seven heads are seven hills upon which the woman sitteth" and then it goes on to say "AND they are also seven kings, five of them have fallen...". These are not literal hills, how can something be both a literal hill and at the same time refer to a king? The Antichrist is both called the beast (kingdom, mountain) and the eighth king. Every hill represents a kingdom (the Bible uses this kind of language a lot: "I will make the hills (kingdoms) fall down before me" and those kind of things) and it also represents a king.

Hello again,

Regarding this, the seven heads are symbolic for two different things, one is that they represent seven literal hills upon which the woman sits, which is her headquarters. And the second symbolism is that, the seven heads also represent seven literal kings, which unlike the ten kings, are a succession of kings. The seven heads are symbolic representing the literal. Therefore, you are not going to have symbolism representing symbolism.

Five have fallen:
At the time that John was receiving that information from the angel, five of those seven kings had already ruled and gone.

One is: At the time that John received this from the angel, king number six was currently ruling.

The other has not yet come: When John was receiving this information king number six was ruling and from John's time frame king number seven was still to come, but would only remain for a short time. This was future to John and past to us.

The beast who once was, now is not and yet will come: This is an eighth king that is accounted with the previous seven. This is that same angel/Destroyer that comes up out of the Abyss at the sounding of the 5th trumpet (Rev.9:11) and who also kills the two witnesses (Rev.11:11) and is counted with the previous seven kings.

Once was = The beast was once out in the world

Now is not = He is no longer in the world, but is in the Abyss

And yet will come = He is in the Abyss and will come up out of the Abyss and will be back into the world

Yes, the colors of the RCC are red and purple, but so are the colors of the inside walls of the Kaaba in Mecca.
Yes, the RCC uses a golden cup etcetera, but have you looked at that massive golden door/gate at the entrance of the Kaaba?
They both kinda fit this description, so we need to look at all of the characteristics of this harlot woman.

As mentioned in the previous post, the reference to the kings of the earth committing adultery with the woman and the, is speaking figuratively to being unfaithful to Christ, while posing as His true follower. That being said, Kaaba is not proclaiming to be the true church of Christ. On the other hand, Roman Catholicism is the biggest religious system on earth proclaiming to be the true church of Christ. But with just a cursory look at her and it is all to evident that she is pagan through and through and is leading many astray under the name of Christ. We can start with that pagan obelisk brought over from Egypt that is sitting right in the middle of St. Peter's square, moving on to Maryism, the Eucharist, transubstantiation, purgatory, indulgences, the sacraments, ex-cathedra and many more.

And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron: forasmuch as iron breaketh in pieces and subdueth all things: and as iron that breaketh all these, shall it break in pieces and bruise.

When did the Roman empire ever break in pieces the other three kingdoms (Babylonian, Persian, Grecian kingdom).

You are confusing the issue. Roman Catholicism is not that fourth kingdom, but it will be the kingdom of that beast. The beast is going to use the woman's pagan, religious influence and her false prophet to deceive the over 1.2 billion devout followers of the RCC and the papacy. But once that false prophet begins to perform those counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders, then the number of devout will include everyone on earth except Israel and the great tribulation saints.

In order to find out the history and real intentions of the RCC, you ought to pick up a copy of the following book by Dave Hunt, titled: "A Woman rides the Beast: The Roman Catholic Church in the Last Days" This book goes into great detail about the history of the RCC, her popes and her continuing agenda.

 

[ukok102nak]

Scripture interprets itself...

:white table: black table: hop: hop: :haha:

 

[Bookends]

And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas, that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate. (Rev. 18:19)

I'd like to challenge everyone who believes that Rome or Vatican City is the Harlot city of Revelation.

View attachment 140425

Nope not Rome, but not who you think either. It's ancient Jerusalem, 1st century Israel.

 

[notuptome]

I could suggest that it was New York city as a great city of world commerce. A city in which sea captains would see her destruction from the ocean. It could be in the middle east as their economic power is growing.

It is only the rich elite that will mourn not the general populations. The little guys are not getting rich off the commerce in goods and the souls of men.

Rome certainly has a part in the false prophet and the false religion he will use to control the masses. Rome is always ready to partner with the world religions and most of the main line protestant denominations are going to fall right in line.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[eternally-gratefull]

That's true but would any Catholic or American cast dust on his head when he sees that Vatican City or Washington DC is destroyed?

what other city could it be?

I hope you do not think Jerusalem. WHo gets rich of Jerusalem?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I vote Vatican City or Washington DC. Those current cities are Great Harlots with global influence.

True but the world will rejoice when Washington gets destroyed.. not cry..lol

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Just a thought...you remember the dust on folks when the twin towers came down? I thought of this scripture then.

except most of the world rejoiced when that happened.

 

[Is]

Well if it's symbolic then this question comes to mind... When Mecca is destroyed, many Muslims will see the destruction of that city and throw dust on their heads as a sign of grief, this is an Islamic/Middle Eastern practice. But when Rome or the Vatican would be destroyed, no one would cast dust on their heads. That's why I have a problem with the interpretation to that text that says Mystery Babylon is Vatican City.

Among the Hebrews (i.e. Israelites) sack cloth and ashes was an accepted form of grieving.

Dust, Earth, and Ashes as Symbols of Mourning among the Ancient Hebrews on JSTOR

Sackcloth and ashes were used in Old Testament times as a symbol of debasement, mourning, and/or repentence. It's self explanatory:

And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchchandise any more. Rev.18:11

The world is unaware as to the true wealth of the Vatican.

 

[Is]

I could suggest that it was New York city as a great city of world commerce. A city in which sea captains would see her destruction from the ocean. It could be in the middle east as their economic power is growing.

It is only the rich elite that will mourn not the general populations. The little guys are not getting rich off the commerce in goods and the souls of men.

Rome certainly has a part in the false prophet and the false religion he will use to control the masses. Rome is always ready to partner with the world religions and most of the main line protestant denominations are going to fall right in line.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Where has New York ever been described as being clothed in purple and scarlet, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls (v.16)? Sounds more like the attire of the RC heirarchy to me.

 

[notuptome]

Where has New York ever been described as being clothed in purple and scarlet, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls (v.16)? Sounds more like the attire of the RC heirarchy to me.

The RCC will be casting dust upon their own heads because they will be without their source of commerce and power. Rome in public dresses in white to appear like the church in heaven. The purple and scarlet is in private that they do not appear as the harlot of Revelation.

For the cause of Christ
Roger